commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10675 posts, RR: 62 Posted (1 year 2 hours ago) and read 14742 times:
Following the announcement in late October of four new international routes (DFW-ICN, DFW-LIM, JFK-DUB, ORD-DUS), and the announcement earlier this week of DFW-BOG and MIA-POA/CWB next year, AA apparently announced internally today that it is also planning to expand further next year in four additional new domestic and international markets, including:
LAX-RDU (daily from 4/2/13)
JFK-IAH (daily from 4/2/13)
MIA-FDF (Sat from 4/6/13)
MIA-PTP (Sat from 4/6/13)
LAX-RDU is surprising only in so much as AA has shown shrinking attention to RDU in recent years with the pulldown of most RDU-Northeast capacity. Nonetheless, I am intrigued to see that AA is going to wade into the LAX-RDU nonstop market. The LAX end will obviously provide a good amount of feed, and AA does still have a strong corporate presence at the RDU end. Seems like a route that might best be served long-term via the new A319s. I think if AA were to simply restart RDU-BOS with a few day CR7s, they would have an extremely compelling value prop for many RDU-area corporate customers. All that being said, I will be interested to see if this makes it.
JFK-IAH is interesting - I suspect it will be timed for Europe connections at JFK. Much of the premium local traffic will of course continue to use United/Delta at LGA. This will mark the first time AA has flown from NYC (metro) to HOU (metro) since the LGA-HOU flights were discontinued (I think back around 2004). This, too, I will be interested to follow - will be interested to see if this survives.
MIA-FDF/PTP is a no-brainer that I and many others have long predicted. These markets are losing their Eagle flights to SJU when the Eagle SJU operation ends in April, and they can both easily handle (operationally) a nonstop link to MIA. I suspect both will likely see, in due time, increased frequency from just 1x weekly. Unlike the first two, these two, personally, I don't think will have any trouble making it.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2899 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 hours ago) and read 14623 times:
Lets see how DL does with AA on the route and vice versa. Personally i think DL cares less about flying this route and AA will have more patience even though DL has been on it for a while and has alot of elites in RDU.
AA commiting to daily will probably win almost all the real heavy frequent flyers on the route immediately. What is the timing for AA? Personally i think LAX-RDU is a route they should already be flying. AA really should be able to kick Delta off this route if they do a non red eye eastbound flight to get the business travellers that combined with daily should be enough to kick Delta off. The real frequent flyers on the route will convert and i dont think it will be as attractive to DL but i thought that flight really fills in the summer but its probably gonna lower yields now.
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31808 posts, RR: 72 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 hours ago) and read 14520 times:
There's a lot more coming than just this. Lot's of talk of a major domestic route network shake-up starting in the spring which will see two things:
1) Significant connecting the dots between current spokes that only have service to one hub (i.e. Ottawa and Buffalo).
2) Opening/reopening smaller spokes that other majors are at (i.e. Melbourne, Florida and Albany).
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6697 posts, RR: 18 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 hours ago) and read 14491 times:
This should be interesting, RDU.LAX.... I think it will take 1 of 3 routes.. Either AA will be killer on this route and it provides good feed for their PAC ops... Either AA will get better competition from DL who will make their flight daily at better times.. Or Either AA will get on the route to decide it doesn't match their cornerstone strategy and backs out after the summer season or 1 year is over.. Time will tell...
It'll be interesting to see how these pan out--they're some of the very rare Caribbean/Latin destinations that would work better out of ATL than MIA because of the superior feed, and they didn't work out of ATL. Great fares though, just tiny markets.
I imagine AA will probably knock DL off the route as well. Even though they've cut back almost continuously at RDU for years, they still have a very loyal frequent flier and corporate base in the region with their RDU-LHR flight and all.
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31808 posts, RR: 72 Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 hour ago) and read 14068 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5): It'll be interesting to see how these pan out--they're some of the very rare Caribbean/Latin destinations that would work better out of ATL than MIA because of the superior feed, and they didn't work out of ATL.
But what connections does Atlanta have that make it so superior? All they need is D.C., New York, Montreal and Boston. And Atlanta bypasses the Miami market entirely. Plus AA is already well established here. DL wasn't, and didn't make it a year even.
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 6): Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
MIA-FDF (Sat from 4/6/13)
MIA-PTP (Sat from 4/6/13)
Does AF still operate these routes from MIA or am I off base here?
deltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8825 posts, RR: 12 Reply 9, posted (1 year ago) and read 13859 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2): 1) Significant connecting the dots between current spokes that only have service to one hub (i.e. Ottawa and Buffalo).
Makes some semblance of sense, especially with the new large RJs forthcoming, as well as the A319s. Only issue I see with this is some of the constraints at ORD/JFK/LGA. Doing this though would allow for better connectivity through the network though.
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2): 2) Opening/reopening smaller spokes that other majors are at (i.e. Melbourne, Florida and Albany).
Makes a ton of sense. MLB/DAB make sense from the Florida/MIA hub end; my guess is that we'd see some return into the Northeast? You mention ALB as a possibility - I wouldn't be shocked to see cities like PWM, PVD, etc. return, where the other majors are getting some mainline metal in there each day.
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7): But what connections does Atlanta have that make it so superior? All they need is D.C., New York, Montreal and Boston. And Atlanta bypasses the Miami market entirely. Plus AA is already well established here. DL wasn't, and didn't make it a year even.
Bingo. Ethnic Carib traffic lives and dies off of those four cities and Miami. ATL has very little of that type of traffic on an O&D basis. AA's got all of those cities having good flow to Miami plus the local base (which due to no need to prorate the traffic, drives up yields immensely).
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31808 posts, RR: 72 Reply 10, posted (1 year ago) and read 13705 times:
Quoting deltairlines (Reply 9): Bingo. Ethnic Carib traffic lives and dies off of those four cities and Miami. ATL has very little of that type of traffic on an O&D basis. AA's got all of those cities having good flow to Miami plus the local base (which due to no need to prorate the traffic, drives up yields immensely).
FDF and PTP aren't ethnic markets. It's tourism. But it's super high-end, so the fares are awesome. But the market is tiny - they are only around 15 PDEW each from Miami; and a tad bit less from NYC.
cessna2 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 304 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13372 times:
Looks like the RTP businesses finally got their voices heard. They've been trying to get a better timed daily LAX flight for a long time. This is a big loss for DL. DL does provide better connections from RDU because of the focus city but you'd be surprised at how fast people around here will jump programs to the airline that better suits the area.
laca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3878 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13204 times:
It's clear AA will be moving beyond the long time conservative stance they have taken opening new markets.
I will be interested in seeing if AA flies the A319 on the LAX-RDU route. That's probaby the best size a/c for this market.
It will be interesting to see if DL increases the frequency on their LAX-RDU service to daily and re-time it to make it more attractive to corporate clients they have in RDU having a focus city there. I believe they fly this with a A320 a big portion of the time or is it, a 73H?
USAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2843 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13083 times:
Quoting deltairlines (Reply 9): You mention ALB as a possibility - I wouldn't be shocked to see cities like PWM, PVD, etc. return, where the other majors are getting some mainline metal in there each day.
After over 4 years, I still cannot believe AA cut PVD and ALB, considering US,UA,and DL all fly mainline into these cities, yet somehow AA could not make them work. I can definitely see both PVD and ALB coming back online.
My guess is a 737-800. I wonder what the frequency will be? It says daily, but does that mean A daily flight, or daily flightS on the route. It is hard that I couldn't book it on AA's website, so I couldn't see.
AFCDGPTP From France, joined Dec 2007, 116 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12459 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5): It'll be interesting to see how these pan out--they're some of the very rare Caribbean/Latin destinations that would work better out of ATL than MIA because of the superior feed, and they didn't work out of ATL. Great fares though, just tiny markets.
MIA will work much better than ATL; most people from Guadeloupe and Martinique when travel to the U.S,their final destination is MIA to go shoppping, take a cruise or visit friends then MCO and NYC would be the other destinations they will go to
Quoting panam330 (Reply 22): Does AF still operate these routes from MIA or am I off base here?
AF flights from PTP & FDF arrive in MIA in the evening, so same day connections are not really possible
25 cessna2: LOL. As much demand as there may be, along with FRA, there won't be any additional TATL routes from RDU as long as AA maintains somewhat a hold of co
26 Byrdluvs747: Just some thoughts. I'm glad AA is filling in the holes, but we really need to hear about more intl routes. That said, it would be great if AA maintai
27 MaverickM11: The market is so small it's not going to make a huge difference either way, though MIA has the advantage. ATL has much more volume--it's around 3x as
28 ERJ170: I'm happy to see RDU connected to all AA cornerstone markets and I hope DL moves their LAX flight to daily. However, there are still a couple of domes
29 Buddys747: I'd like to see MDT-DFW return. The route was dropped in late 2008 I believe when they temporary pulled out of Harrisburg. They have since returned wi
30 FlyPIJets: this! right!?! AA on a LAX n/s hmmmm - gotta say - AA has a large loyal frequent flyer base at RDU, good to see AA showing RDU some routage. Now, wil
31 2travel2know2: AA already flew DFW-LIM, good to see that route return, it's going to be LATAM code-share? Are PTP and FDF both get dedicated flights? If AA is testin
32 tsnamm: I wonder if UA will respond to the JFK/IAH service...look at the over reaction to EWR being announce by VX...might be interesting....
33 qqflyboy: Unfortunately in the same route announcement AA said they're ending one of the five daily JFK-LHR flights on March 30. I say unfortunate for the crews
34 cessna2: Could the new LAX-RDU service be timed to allow connections for RDU-LHR? With new 773s coming in what's the possibility of upgrading the route again t
35 miaami: It will be interesting to see where the BOS and JFK to LHR slots end up. This also free's up a 777-200 that could be used elsewhere. Sounds as though
36 jetlanta: Don't count on it. The "frequent flyer base" argument is something I've always found silly. That loyalty is only good as your most recent status year
37 LAXdude1023: I wouldnt call RDU DL's market or anyone elses. The market share is spread pretty evenly among several carriers. Its not exactly ATL, CLT, IAH, or DF
38 cv880: Be happy with the recently added services by AA/UA/DL to the west coast. RDU will be lucky to keep what it has to LHR esp if US/AA get married.
39 jetlanta: Did I? What I am saying is that Delta believes it is their market. That's what is going to matter.
40 slcdeltarumd11: Sorry i don't see them going larger than a 767 or more than once daily. It might be timed to allow for that possibly but LAX has its own N/S flight s
41 LAXdude1023: Then they believe wrong. Its not a market that is dominated by one carrier. When a carrier has 70% or better marketshare, then its their market. 26%?
42 IrishAyes: Me too. I remember when DFW had access to a variety of the "corner" markets in the Northeast: ROC, SYR, BUF, PVD, etc. I hope they come back! That's
43 ERJ170: RDU-CDG got cancelled because AA said that if DL got subsidies, they would pull the LHR flight. Since AA offered better connecting opportunities via B
44 LAXdude1023: RDU-CDG is nowhere near as large as RDU-LHR which is North Carolina's largest European O&D market. RDU-LHR is almost 100 passengers a day. If the
45 ERJ170: Much like, LHR... If RTRP is willing to pay for it.. Why wouldn't DL want to fly it. And with another mega hub on the other end, it should be able to
46 cessna2: Maybe you've forgotten that this route was operated by the 777 for many years...
47 ryanrap1: What kind of aircraft will be used to IAH
48 incitatus: This is a questionable argument if the other side of the route (LAX) is not considered.
49 N1120A: Would have been useful to me if they had started flying this earlier this week. Its a route that makes tons of sense and has always been strangely ab
50 mah4546: I get that, but this isn't Cancun nor Punta Cana. It's the French Caribbean. The market is tiny, as you know. MIA is the largest to both, but barely
51 tommy767: I feel LAX-RDU is oh you know, about 5 years late. Either way good for AA to fly it. I wonder what strides DL will go through to protect their turf on
52 cessna2: I feel LAX-RDU is oh you know, about 5 years late. Either way good for AA to fly it. I wonder what strides DL will go through to protect their turf on
53 vin2basketball: Undoubtedly Delta believes that it is their market, but in terms of high yielding O&D passengers, the FF share held by AA in RDU is still very st
54 mah4546: Exactly what "turf" is Delta protecting? Delta has absolutely failed to maintain daily, year-round service between LAX and RDU, with a redeye westboun
55 LONGisland89: Unless things have changed very recently, AA does not have a crew base at RDU and the LHR flight is operated by DFW crews. They work DFW-LHR-RDU-LHR-
56 casinterest: This is what I wonder. With DL and the VX tie, and knowing that DL wanted to do CDG, I expect a turf battle heating up over the next 5 years. RDU is
57 YYZBound: AA DOES have a crew base in RDU, that is strictly for the LHR flight. It's about 75 flight attendants I believe
58 qqflyboy: I can assure you AA has a flight attendant crew base at RDU. As others have stated it covers the LHR flight only. It will be interesting to see how t
59 jetlanta: Delta will keep it around precisely because AA is launching it. I'm not sure why anyone will be surprised by that. Delta is going to get "blown away"
60 slcdeltarumd11: I am very aware. Proof the 767 is the better fit. They didnt downgrade for a reason. They dont care about moving the masses its just the high premium
61 LONGisland89: Oh balls, thanks for clarifying. Not a bad gig, flying to LHR all the time. Is the RDU FA base very senior?
62 YYZBound: VERY. The saying is that you can't possibly get into RDU as an F/A unless somebody dies LOL
63 flyguy89: By the same token, if you travel to LHR multiple times a year on AA, and now AA is going to be offering daily year-round LAX flights, the switch to A
64 AVLAirlineFreq: Won't RDU-LHR be there as long as the corporate contracts and subsidies continue, regardless of what US and AA do?
65 TWA85: What other routes are rumored to be started from JFK and/or LGA?
66 mah4546: Honestly, any medium/large market that doesn't have service to NYC, ORD, MIA and/or LAX is, IMO, fair game to gain service to those airports. It was
67 WA707atMSP: Resuming LAX-DTW at some point would be nice, but I'm not optimistic.
68 MesaFlyGuy: I assume it will be a 737-800. I hope it will be more than a measily daily flight, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm happy to see JFK getting some
69 SCL767: LAN will code-share on AA's DFW-LIM and DFW-BOG routes, (LAN currently code-shares on AA's DFW-EZE and DFW-SCL services).
70 cessna2: I'm going to put all my eggs in that basket...319's won't be delivered until July... Just released info from RDU.com http://rdublog.com/2012/12/21/aa
71 slcdeltarumd11: Would have been such a good add before VX entered the market. I think they really missed the boat on that one.
72 MesaFlyGuy: I find it interesting that they say they will have the Boeing Sky Interior on the flights. I was not aware they operated the planes with the Sky Inte
73 cessna2: I guess they really want the corporate contract for this route. Versus just sticking any old 738 on the route.
74 mesaflyguy: Very true, I'm just interested if they specifically send the sky interiors consistently or just rotate aircraft normally when it actually happens.
75 mah4546: AA does no assign new sky interiors to any specific route and will not assign them exclusively on LAXRDU. LAXRDU will see new sky interiors at random
76 mesaflyguy: Thanks for the clarification! I did think that it would be an unnecessary task to try and use these aircraft as their own subfleet on their own route
77 seatback: Any opinions on DEN-JFK? I question whether DL's DEN-LGA/JFK flights are doing very well.
78 slcdeltarumd11: AA has Jetblue offering service for people who want AA miles/international connections on JFK-DEN/SLC/PHX. Those are some decent length flights and pr
79 cessna2: That's what DL is for. If US/AA decide to "get married" and discontinue RDU-LHR I promise you DL will swoop in and take the contract. But being as th
80 cv880: Don't be so sure about what DL may or may not do. I've been with them ever since I left Chapel Hill 40yrs ago and they move in & out of markets l
81 Cubsrule: Why in the world would AA drop a route that is guaranteed to make money?
82 cessna2: Quoting cessna2 (Reply 79): That's what DL is for. If US/AA decide to "get married" and discontinue RDU-LHR I promise you DL will swoop in and take th
83 STT757: Eastern flew nonstop from MIA to both FDF and PTP: MIA-FDF 4x weekly 727 MIA-PTP 2x weekly 727
84 cessna2: AA has released the flight times today. LAX-RDU: Depart 8:00am Arrive 4:25pm RDU-LAX: Depart 5:15pm Arrive 8:00pm Definitely better timed than DL's fl
85 capejet: Now that AA has announced MIA-PTP/FDF, will the Eagle flights from SJU-PTP/FDF continue to operate?
86 mesaflyguy: AA announced MIA-PTP/FDF BECAUSE the Eagle flights are ending.
87 SJUSXM: I know that's been the rumour, but they are still bookable in April (and June) alongside the MIA flights. Along with the incredibly insane SJU-STX fl
88 flyinryan99: For some reason I think TOL will be left out or one of the last to be a part of this. I have heard AA is becoming much more interested in DFW in the
89 mah4546: Eagle flights end 31 March. That's official. Bookings still being accepted because AMR hopes to have a new Eagle carrier in place for SJU by that tim
90 slcdeltarumd11: This is the ideal timing for the majority of business travellers when you can only offer a single frequency. I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta pul
91 N1120A: AA also has a historic, and very current advantage in RDU - despite DL's attempts to capture the market. Which makes tons of sense. They have a lot o
92 cessna2: DL with either pull or put up a fight. They are most likely mulling the decision as we speak. Both airlines could coexist on this route being as it h
93 mah4546: No, it is around 225 PDEW. That isn't large and isn't going to be easy for two airlines.
94 cessna2: no its 450 PDEW. http://rdublog.com/2012/12/21/aa-to-...aily-los-angeles-service-in-april/
95 mah4546: PDEW is per day, each way, so 450/2=225. For a trans-con market, that's just about te minimum threshold to support a daily flight.
96 RyanairGuru: Which low yield market were you referring to? I think that AA could do very well on this route with Research Triangle contracts. Other than BOS, what