ordwaw From United States of America, joined May 2006, 74 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 23025 times:
LOT's SP-LRA has been grounded due to mechanical problems/damage to the landing gear. This is following problems with door seals requiring to operate at low altitudes (FL240) and problems with electronics for which it was previously grounded.
It appears that LOT is taking a very safe and cautious approach to all these teething problems, making sure that they fully understand what is happening with the plane and that all issues are fixed before the plane is airborne again.
The flip side is that three or so days of flights have been cancelled, and there are many enthusiasts who booked these flights to experience B788 but flew on a B734 instead.
The good news is that the second B788, SP-LRB should land at WAW at 3:00 pm today ...
gr09 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2008, 109 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 22867 times:
Quoting ordwaw (Reply 2): It appears that LOT is taking a very safe and cautious approach to all these teething problems, making sure that they fully understand what is happening with the plane and that all issue are fixed before the plane is airborne again.
I read from a few people who already had the pleasure that the landings at WAW are very rough. Might this be related to the landing gear issue or is there some other type of problem?
ushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2888 posts, RR: 18 Reply 5, posted (5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 22506 times:
Well, I guess I did luck out that I didn't/don't have time on the dates where they scheduled their BRU-WAW flights on the Dreamliner. Money well saved.
okAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 549 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 22466 times:
Sounds like they have some teething problem which is totally normal and I see it as good behavior of LOT to investigate any problems thoroughly. I remember when AY received the E-jets, the start went surprisingly smoothly, until the winter arrived!
ordwaw From United States of America, joined May 2006, 74 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 22462 times:
Quoting gr09 (Reply 3): the landings at WAW are very rough.
Actually, one of the Polish papers or aviation sites, forgot which, claims that the landing gear problem came up after a rough landing of the flight from PRG at WAW on Tuesday. The next flight to MUC was cancelled and the aircraft has been out of service since.
This is strange. These initial B787 flights are relatively light, with a cap of 175 passengers, not even close to MLW. The weather was OK. In addition, if Polish pilots can successfully land a B767 w 230+ people on board at WAW without landing gear as it was demonstrated last year by Captain Wrona, I am not sure what can be so different with a B787 (?)
gr09 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2008, 109 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 22237 times:
Quoting ordwaw (Reply 7): Actually, one of the Polish papers or aviation sites, forgot which, claims that the landing gear problem came up after a rough landing of the flight from PRG at WAW on Tuesday. The next flight to MUC was cancelled and the aircraft has been out of service since.
On a Czech forum they mentioned Wednesday. If I'm not mistaken, they also said that after that landing LOT didn't use a jetway but the plane was parked on a remote stand straight away.
ThomasCook From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 721 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 21988 times:
I flew WAW-PRG on 14/12 and PRG-WAW on 16/12 and have to say that both landings where quite probably the smoothest i've ever encountered! Both flights also seamless!
debonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 21436 times:
Quoting Danny (Reply 12): In the meantime the second 787 has just landed at WAW airport.
Ok, need your help - I will fly in January on LOT's B787 (hopefully). So the question is, will the 2nd B787 be availble to take over the flights of the first B787 or is it scheduled to other routes as well?
mke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2310 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 20306 times:
Long-term are the 787s still occasionally going to be doing some of these short-haul routes throughout Europe? IIRC I think LO used to send their 767s to TLV but that's about it.
Quoting Danny (Reply 12): In the meantime the second 787 has just landed at WAW airport.
ordwaw From United States of America, joined May 2006, 74 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 19738 times:
Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 15): Long-term are the 787s still occasionally going to be doing some of these short-haul routes throughout Europe? IIRC I think LO used to send their 767s to TLV but that's about it.
The plan was to have these intra Europe flights on 787 completed by January 15, 2013.
Then on January 16, 2013 start WAW-ORD-WAW.
and follow early February with WAW-YYZ-WAW and WAW-JFK-WAW (once LP-LRC is in place) and in March WAW-PEK-WAW (once LP-LRD is in place).
With the introduction of B787 aircraft, the old B767 were supposed to be phased out.
There were no scheduled flights on B767 beyond North American and Asian destinations.
There were occasional charter flights (perhaps the ones to TLV) or one-off flights say to LHR to pick up stranded passengers due to adverse weather conditions on prior days (e.g., volcanic ash in 2010)
ordwaw From United States of America, joined May 2006, 74 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 19418 times:
Quoting Danny (Reply 16): Vienna flight is being done by 737
Apparently SP-LRB has gone technical once completed the delivery flight from the US a few hours ago. Experts are looking into the root cause of the problem.
Seems a deja vu of QR's experience. Except LO does not have Al Baker as a CEO ... (well they do not even have a formal CEO at the moment, so no one to scream ...)
ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 23, posted (5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 18624 times:
Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 21): Speaking to someone in LOT, I have just been told "you wouldn't take a car with this level of failure, never mind two."
The second aircraft was just delivered. If the first is out of service due to a hard landing, who's fault is that? Boeing's? The Pilots'? God? Someone else?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
qantasguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 157 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 18522 times:
I hope this gets fixed soon. I know it was disappointing to those at LKPR Thursday am when out of the fog came......a 737. Flightaware reported a 787 en-route too, so even more surprise. Hope LOT can fix and they come back to LKPR and beyond soon It was a beautiful first arrival Friday, many people to witness
25 flood: The second was delivered - but it went tech as well. With regards to the landing, a mod at FT stated "the brake assembly overheated and a titanuim pa
26 konrad: This is not confirmed. The 2nd plane delivery flight arrived from PAE at 3:15pm and there was not enough time to rig it up for the 6:45pm flight to V
27 tdscanuck: Of course not. But the incident rate for cars is far far lower than for aircraft. If you held aircraft (from any OEM) to the reliability standard of
28 flood: Sure you don't mean 15:15? Both flightaware and FR24 show the aircraft arriving at 3:15pm - which should be sufficient.
29 ordwaw: Officially confirmed by LOT's spokesman ... quoting www.gazeta.pl Rough Google Translate translation from Polish ... On Friday, flew from Boeing's fa
30 konrad: I beg your pardon, of course it was 15:15 (already edited in the original post).
31 ThomasCook: Hi, Regardless of it arriving at 15:15, I doubt that is really enough time to enter it into service. Most aircraft are not delivered with everything i
32 RickNRoll: Are the money men interfering in this program again, by pushing out planes that aren't ready.
33 peterinlisbon: So United, Qatar and now LOT have all had serious problems with their new 787s! And defective aircraft have been delivered to both Qatar and LOT. What
34 7BOEING7: If the airplane doesn't pass its FAA mandated "tests" both on the ground or inflight it doesn't deliver--the money guys aren't part of the equation,
35 BlueShamu330s: Thomas Cook Wide of the mark there. Aircraft can and have left Seattle fully service ready. Rgds
36 RickNRoll: I can get a "roadworthy" report on my car, it will certify that the car is safe and won't kill anyone. It doesn't tell me that the car is not going to
37 7BOEING7: That is true, but many require "personalization"--some even require seats. Don't know which category LOT falls into.
38 ordwaw: According to Polish news station TVN24, LOT's spokesman, Marek Klucinski, announced that SP-LRB would service Friday's flight to Vienna following its
39 ThomasCook: Not necessarily. We don't know how the aircraft are handed over and as another member pointed out, some carriers take delivery without seats fitted;
40 ZKOKQ: Not to mention the catering they would have to put onboard.
41 traindoc: ANA and JAL have the largest 787 fleets, and these are earlier build airplanes. Yet, they seem to be having few problems with them. The more recent bu
42 tdscanuck: What could be wrong with an airplane that would make it not ready to deliver, yet would still be allowed to actually deliver (by Boeing, the airline,
44 Danny: There was no hard landing. Don't believe everything you see posted on the web. SP-LRB with 1 hour delay but is on route to London Heathrow.[Edited 20
45 BlueSky1976: It was mechanical problem. Fixed. I suspect some sort of material defect in the part of the landing gear, as the landing itself was nothing out of th
46 ordwaw: It is Saturday morning and SP-LRB is on its way to LHR.
47 BlueSky1976: ...and I think we may as well close this thread; both 787s are operational, though SP-LRA is not flying today AFAIK.
48 worldrider: Yet another 787 going tech just after delivery. "someone" isn't taking its time and doesn't want to pay penalties. Fortunatly no disaster hasn't happe
49 PlaneHunter: Pure speculation, I'd say. So which 787 problem (after delivery) has been really dangerous? Probably you know more than anyone else here? Facts, plea
50 gr09: It was reported as an unusually hard landing at two independent forums by people who had been on the flight. Why would aviation enthusiasts lie about
53 babybus: It is very wise of LOT to take their &*&s out of service until the electrical problems are sorted out. No one wants an inflight incident. I no
54 ordwaw: QR I saw two of them on FR24 today ... DOH-LHR very early in the morning, and DOH-DXB just recently. LO LOT SP-LRB flew WAW-LHR at 9:00-11:00 am GMT+1
55 PlaneHunter: I don't know, I simply say that people shouldn't jump to conclusions after hearing reports from passengers. PH
56 lhrnue: I read that LH has engineers at Boeing during production, test and and delivery of each of their aircraft to ensure they are faultless when handed ove
57 gr09: Where am I jumping into conclusions? I'm just saying people on aviation forum reported hard landing on Wednesday. And I was replying to statement fro
58 PlaneHunter: Did I suggest that? No. I said "people". Some users seem to relate an allegedly hard landing to technical problems which grounded the plane - that's
59 Stitch: That "someone" would be LOT, then. There is a reason they have C(ustomer) flights, so the new owners can try it out before they hand over the final p
60 ikramerica: I have never heard of a revenue flight scheduled the same afternoon as a delivery flight, but maybe it happens. Most likely at WN with the 1000th 737
61 anstar: I seem to revcall V Australia took deliveries of their 777's and the first pax flights were LAX-SYD....
62 Kaiarahi: It's usual for customer airline engineers to be at Boeing (or Airbus, etc) when taking first delivery of a plane that's new to the fleet, but it has
63 tdscanuck: If so, it would have had to be in a replaceable part...they did not have enough time to change gear and there are essentially zero allowable material
64 ikramerica: Exactly. There is no obligation for anyone to tell us anything, but you combine hard landing with going tech for gear problems, and you have to wonde
65 CM: Maybe, but this can only be part of the problem. It is certainly true that introducing any new aircraft into the fleet of an airline is complex. When
66 PlaneHunter: Where exactly did I say anything about smooth past landings? Read more carefully and stop putting things in my mouth. I'm simply skeptical about one
67 FlyingAY: Yes, you hear people telling stories about hard landings even if that was just a normal firm landing. If pilot rumors are considered unreliable here
68 HT: SP-LRB is enroute WAW to HAJ ad LO 403 running about 40 min behind schedule. This is one of two visits of LO's B787 to HAJ in the coming days (next: 0
69 aloges: The reason given was "operational problems", IIRC. Initially, the delay was announced to be 15 minutes, then indefinite, then came the boarding annou
70 HT: I had thought the minus 10 °C in WAW could have played a rôle here. And the closure of WMI. Just in case, the following website has pictures from H
71 mke717spotter: So if they're not going to continue some of these short-haul flights, where are all their 787s going to go? They ordered 8, but they cut EWR, KRK, an
72 tdscanuck: Yes, although it relies on the flight crew to notify maintenance of a potential hard landing. Maintenance then pulls the landing data, which includes
73 flyingbird: From Flightradar24 Facebook: LOT's second Dreamliner (SP-LRB) flying as LO223 to Vienna this morning, made some circles outside of Vienna, and is now
74 shamrock350: Bad weather in Vienna? Visibility is a problem at the moment.
75 delta777jet: That can't be the reason, other flights landed on time or with slight delay, except of course the 787 would be flying VFR If they continue this way, t
76 PlaneHunter: Still three weeks to go. No reason to dramatize anything. PH
77 ordwaw: Apparently, Polish news sources quote weather conditions in VIE, and visibility or lack of due to fog in particular, as the reason for returning to W
78 delta777jet: Must be it then, but silly from their operations to dispatch the plane there if they know they won't be able to land. Nice for the 787 fans, but bad
80 milan320: Indeed that seems the case. Gazeta Wyborcza has an article on it (sorry in Polish). According to the article, this time there was no problem with the
81 ordwaw: How many hours does it take for a pilot to obtain ILS CAT II and CAT III certifications? Does it vary from a/c to a/c? Considering that B787 is new t
82 HT: I was thinking of delays in departure due to regular de-icing being required, taking into account that there might be extra delays due to the extra t
83 PEET7G: By the time of departure, the info was that conditions at VIE would be within CAT I RVR of 550m and that the weather will improve...nature is tricky.
84 hkcanadaexpat: Same issue happened to an Air India 787 in Delhi on Monday. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...Christmas/articleshow/17749849.cms
85 LO231: Don't scare me, I am booked on the 5th BRU-WAW and on the tenth WAW-BRU
86 flood: What's the status of their birds? LRA appears to be back in service with FR24 showing it operating to PRG and MUC on the 28th. LRB (edited, brainfart)
87 LO231: Also,what are my chances for the fifth of Jan BRU-WAW LO 236?
88 flood: If I'm not mistaken, their schedule only shows them operating WAW-BRU-WAW early morning and FRA in the evening - easily done with one aircraft. That
89 aloges: Pretty decent, I suspect. As per the list of flights that was made available here: LOT's 787 Dreamliner Flights Around Europe (by kamilinlondon Oct 2
90 ordwaw: SP-LRA encountered a problem at FRA after arriving from WAW this morning (Jan 4). The return flight was cancelled, passengers rebooked onto other flig
91 shamrock350: I was booked on the HAJ flight this afternoon and started getting a little nervous when I noticed the inbound had been cancelled. I followed both air
92 HT: In return I flew on SP-LRB on the return section HAJ to WAW and with a very light passenger load (LF between 25 and 30 %) and noticed that the aircra
93 sweair: Is it as quiet as the film clips made seem to give the feeling of? Even the 748i seems quiet compared to the 744. As more planes will be twins it is a
94 HT: I was sitting in seat 28J which is the window seat in the second last row on SP-LRB. Here is my perception: Engine noise was negligible in cruise; du
95 tdscanuck: Center hydraulic pumps. There are two and they're inside the wing-body fairing under your feet. Prior to takeoff they both go to high speed to provid
96 flood: Glad to see your flight was operated by a 787, let us know how it went That's this high-pitched sound? It ceases at 11:15. http://youtu.be/tfjNSUvwG6
97 PEET7G: Thanks for that explanation tdscanuck, now at least I know what was driving me crazy before. I found that high pitch noise extremely disturbing on my
98 SA7700: As this specific plane is no longer "technical" and the thread has run its course for all intents and purposes, it will be locked for further contribu
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