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Braniff In Boston  
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3011 posts, RR: 9
Posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7499 times:

In the late 70's/ early 80's, Braniff operated a mini-hub from BOS for european flights. Can someone list the cities and equipment used?

Thank you!


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCapEd388 From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7461 times:

This is the coolest coincidence, I'm in the middle of reading "Braniff International: Splash of Colors" which is a great book.

According to the book Braniff flew from Boston to London/Paris/Amsterdam/Brussels and Frankfurt. Braniff operated these routes using their trademark orange B747s which were nicknamed "Great Pumpkins".



388 346 77W 787
User currently offlineViajero From Mexico, joined Aug 2008, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7425 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

If you get a chance, check Amazon or a similar site and search for Braniff: A Color History or something of the sort. It's one of 3 or 4 Braniff books written by Dallas area author George Cearley Jr. I'm sure what you're looking for will be in there. I'm stuck away from home, or I'd check for you, but if you're interested in other facets of BI, these books would be of great value to you.
Regards,
Viajero

[Edited 2012-12-21 22:33:01]

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8741 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7255 times:

It was the "Big Orange" , may be the Pilgrim Fathers in BOS called it the Big Pumpkin, or just Charlie Brown.

From my logbook - BN, BOS-BRU-FRA 747, think it was a -100

amazing, long time ago, but I remember from that flight that it was delayed twice because the coffee machine did not work.

[Edited 2012-12-21 22:52:19]


I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4878 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7039 times:

Here's a link:

http://www.departedflights.com/BN102879p10.html

Shows complete BOS schedule and equipment used.



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2885 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7030 times:

Maybe these may help you, at the height of BN's route structure.

http://www.departedflights.com/BN072877.html - In 1977 this was their route map, no European flights at all.

http://www.departedflights.com/BN070179.html - By 1979, a much different story

http://www.departedflights.com/BN060180.html - Same in 1980

http://www.departedflights.com/BN050181.html - By 1981, DFW-LGW was the only European route for BN.



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently offlineCitationjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7009 times:

Braniff started European service from BOS on June 1, 1979 with non-stop 747 service to Paris, FRA, AMS, and BRU. Prior to the service starting, they announced the service was to be two flights per week to each European city. My sister worked ticket counter for Braniff in Boston during that time. Braniff had applied for LGW service, but I don't think that ever happened based on memory without checking. According to the March/April 1979 company newsletter B-Liner, there were 315 airport employees at BOS and a flight crew base of 200. The newsletter mentioned standby fares from BOS to the European cities ranging from $326 to $353 round trip.


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

Also I beleive NW Orient had some flights from BOS to Europe for a short while around 1980.

[Edited 2012-12-22 06:44:50]

[Edited 2012-12-22 06:45:28]

User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6854 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 4):
Shows complete BOS schedule and equipment used.

I honestly see how they could try London, but really, 747s to BRU, or even AMS, strike me as crazy marketing. I'd love to know what sort of loads they were getting.


User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3011 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

Quoting doulasc (Reply 7):
Also I beleive NW Orient had some flights from BOS to Europe for a short while around 1980.

NW hada dedicated BOS mini-hub through the 80's. Flights to LGW and SNN/DUB has already been established, and flights to AMS, FRA, CDG, and i believe BRU and CPH were added. I think Prestwick was also there.

Domestic flights included:
DCA
IAD
JFK
MCO
TPA
DTW
MSP
MKE
LAX
MEM



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1265 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6753 times:

I was a Braniff f/a out of Boston the entire time thebase was open from June 1979 until the Spring of 1981. AMS, FRA, ORY were all 747-100's, -200's or the odd SP. Initially BRU started with a DC8-62 but was later changed to a 747.

The 747 fleet was a hodge-podge of the originial 747-127 (Fat Albert), the Braniff 747-227, a 747-100 that was LH's original 747 (nicknamed "The Hindenburg") and an ex-LH (actually Condor) 747-200 (nicknamed "Hitler's Revenge.") This airplane was also unusual in that the orange color it was painted was not the deep orange of all of the others. It resembled a big, fat Dreamsickle. Neither of the ex-LH planes were known for their mechanical reliability.There was also a World Airways 747-200CF with the nose-loading door. When BI used it it was the only time it had ever flown in a passenger configuration. On the first trip, all the oven doors had glass inserts that shattered from the heat. They were quickly exchanged. The upper deck had a nifty table that could be used at coffee table height or cranked up to be a table for four for meals. BI also had an American 747-123 that had the lower lobe galleys and unique catering equipment. We were told "you'll never see that aircraft in BOS"--so, of course, there it was one day and none of the f//a's scheduled to work on it had been through the required AA lower lobe training course and BOS catering had none of the correct carts and inserts. Cancel one flight.

Flight loads were excellent--we were pretty much always full. But the best thing about the BOS base were the crews--pilots and f/a's--we were young, having a great time in a beautiful city and we bonded into a unique group. Even today, many of us still keep in contact.

BI tried in vain to get the route from BOS to LHR but it never went through. By 1981 Braniff's fortunes were rapidly on the slide and they closed the base and forced us all to transfer to DFW. FYI--Braniff used Terminal 5 at BOS. We were all very sorry to see the base close.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8741 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

NWA is confirmed, I've been on that FRA/BOS vv flight several times.
Add LGA to the domestic destinations to/from BOS. Once I checked in at LGA to connct to the FRA flight at BOS, wasn't easy, must have been the first time the agent did that.



Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 8):

I honestly see how they could try London, but really, 747s to BRU, or even AMS, strike me as crazy marketing. I'd love to know what sort of loads they were getting.

full , checking the schedule, I must have been on that Monday departure via BRU to FRA and the 747 was full to BRU



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1265 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6716 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):

I honestly see how they could try London, but really, 747s to BRU, or even AMS, strike me as crazy marketing. I'd love to know what sort of loads they were getting.

As I said in my previous post, loads to all of the cities were great. The U.S. Government and the UK balked at giving BI rights to LHR and they considered that critical. BRU flights in particular were in high demand. We kept insisting that the base was profitable but the interest rates were around 22% at the time and the leases were astronomical on the 747's since BI only owned 2 full-sized 74's and 3 SP's. And if I remember correctly even those were leased with rates tied to the prime. They tried to renogiate the leases but with no effect. That is why they eventually sold one SP to Aerolineas and refused delivery on two 747-227's. THey sat at Boeing for several years. At one point Air Algerie was going to buy them but the sale fell through at th last minute--they had even been painted in full colors. NW got them for a song and then retrieved the other 747-227 which by this time was flying for PeopleExpress out of EWR. The were NW ship numbers 6633, 6634 and 6635 and were easily spotted because they did not have the spiral stairway. They had the straight stairs. For years afterwards I would get on one to work and mumble "If you beasts only knew how much trouble you had caused...." But they were beautiful aircraft.

[Edited 2012-12-22 07:33:43]


Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3011 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6698 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 10):
-Braniff used Terminal 5 at BOS.

Did Terminal E (International) used to be called 5?



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1265 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6658 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 9):
I think Prestwick was also there.

PIK was indeed there--it was also flown out of JFK and was ALWAYS packed with these wonderful elderly ladies who felt it necessary to apologize to me when I picked up their dinners and they had not finished their peas. Very gracious and giving people. I'd KILL for a Cheese Toastie with Branston Pickle!

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 13):
Did Terminal E (International) used to be called 5?

Actually, I think you are correct. I always thought of it as the fifth stop on the bus from the "T" station. Back then in the summers it was so hot that by the time I got from my condo in Back Bay to the terminal in uniform I was soaking wet. Eventually I started wearing shorts and a t shirt on the "T" and changing at the airport.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1080 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6631 times:

Correct me if I'm forgetting something, but I think BI was the first airline to try and made a mini-hub work in BOS. Yes, DL had a major presence thanks to NE and EA had an impressive operation...but neither really leveraged their strengths there in the 70's and 80's.
The timeline seems that BI tried to make BOS a gateway and had to walk away due to its other problems. Then NWO>NWA gave it a shot from the mid 80s to the early 90s before they decided to focus on DTW and the KLM JV. In the mid 90s DL started to grow BOS during the Mullin (a BOS native) years before putting their eggs in the JFK basket(case) lol. Now, of course, Beantown is a B6 town...sans the European network (yet).


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8741 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6584 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
full , checking the schedule, I must have been on that Monday departure via BRU to FRA and the 747 was full to BRU
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 12):
As I said in my previous post, loads to all of the cities were great

That's exactly what I said in my answer. You quoted the other guy's question.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3011 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 15):
Correct me if I'm forgetting something, but I think BI was the first airline to try and made a mini-hub work in BOS.

I've got some mid 80's literature in which DL calls BOS a "mini hub." But it was like a regional one, as there was still mainline service to PHL, DCA, BWI, RDU, BGR, PWM, and BDL from BOS.



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6553 times:

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 8):
but really, 747s to BRU, or even AMS, strike me as crazy marketing.

In the 70's the bigger was better mentality ruled. It was more about comfort vs controlling cost. The 747 were the greatest things and marketed as the cadillac of flying. Petro was a whole cheaper too.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6525 times:

DTWPurserBoy,

Thanks for sharing all this great information. Memories shared from people like you who were there in the "good old days" makes this forum very enjoyable and enlightening!


User currently offlineEASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6405 times:

Eastern did have a force in BOS. I believe that we built a very impressive new terminal. I was there for the opening day. If my memory recalls, it was very beautiful. Don't know if it is still there. They also had a store where you could pick out a live lobster, have it packaged, and take it home. Afraid I couldn't do it now.

User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1062 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5760 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
DTWPurserBoy,

Thanks for sharing all this great information. Memories shared from people like you who were there in the "good old days" makes this forum very enjoyable and enlightening!

My sentiments exactly! When I was reading his first post, I was thinking how lucky we are to have this website where we can learn first-hand how things were....


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24080 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5709 times:

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 15):
but I think BI was the first airline to try and made a mini-hub work in BOS.
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 12):
The U.S. Government and the UK balked at giving BI rights to LHR

Braniff's code was BN, not BI which is Royal Brunei Airlines.


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):

Braniff's code was BN, not BI which is Royal Brunei Airlines.

Thank you! Folks always want to say BI.

My friends from Braniff used to tell stories about the Boston flying.. They were a unique
carrier to say the least. Their fate was sealed with the Deregulation Acct.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

BN flew HNL-MIA nonstop?? Wow?? What type of equip? U wouldnt think u would need something paradise to paradise? Unless u area pineapple.

BN had an impressive global route structure. Why did BN, TW, PA not make it flying everywhere?? Such a shame


25 Viscount724 : Unfortunately Braniff operated many routes that had very little demand. They began service on many routes (SEL, HKG, SIN, GUM) simply because they we
26 OzarkD9S : That initial batch was the infamous "Dormant Authority" route grab where airline reps lined up outside the CAB office to put in their requests for do
27 zrs70 : Eastern did have a force in BOS. I believe that we built a very impressive new terminal. I was there for the opening day. If my memory recalls, it wa
28 Post contains links deltacto : http://www.departedflights.com/BN072877.html Note at the bottom of the route map: "Certified Routes of Braniff International" Braniff was awarded seve
29 jfk777 : Harding Lawrence had dreams of Braniff flying to Tokyo and London from all over the USA, it was not to be. Boston to LGW would have anchored the whole
30 superjeff : Don't forget that Braniff also flew Concorde - the only U.S. carrier to do so, in a lease arrangement with BA and AF. They leased the plane after arr
31 DTWPurserBoy : The lynch pin to those Pacific routes was to acquire authority to TYO--that never materialized. 747-SP's were flying to SEL, GUM and HKG with 40 peop
32 DTWPurserBoy : EA's terminal in BOS was extraordinary. I do recall being able to pick up the boxes packed with live lobsters! And Legal Seafood had KILLER chower ("
33 DTWPurserBoy : Braniff and their HNL authority is a complex subject. They showed it on the printed schedules as nonstop but in reality, you had to go to DFW and chan
34 Capt.Fantastic : I recall reading somewhere that load factors on Braniff's 747 flights between Boston and Europe were poor, at times flying nearly empty. From my under
35 FI642 : He totally misunderstood Deregulation. He was convinced it would be a failure (maybe he was right after all!), and grabbed everything he could for Br
36 Post contains links RWA380 : I know on the day of deregulation, 12/15/78 is the timetable to have for BN, alas mine was ruined in storage. The new service from PDX/SEA to HNL mea
37 CF-CPI : I had forgotten what a hodge podge of 747s they had: a single -127, a -227 and miscellaneous second-hand ships from various sources, as an earlier po
38 DTWPurserBoy : It is true the the original LH coach seats were installed--but I don't recall there being leather seats in FC--might gave been but the aircraft looke
39 Citationjet : According to the November 1978 Braniff company newsletter the B-Liner, the company leased a third 747 for 3 years to start this HNL service. The SEA/
40 ord : Remember, too, that the Boston to Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris and Frankfurt flights only operated nonstop twice per week. Not exactly a robust schedule
41 rampart : In the same way that some people refer to Southwest as SW, Braniff International was BI. It was their logo, after all. Not everyone is a travel agent
42 ItalianFlyer : I remember Terminal A (the old EA) was quite a functional but stylish building for its time. It was open and bright compared to the bunker feeling of
43 DTWPurserBoy : No, the original Braniff crew lounge was located just above the ticket counter. You took that stairway against the right wall and went up one level a
44 DTWPurserBoy : Thanks, Rampart. We both knew what I meant but there are those on here that delight in the details.
45 EASTERN747 : Sorry, but I haven't been back to BOS in years. Is the building still there. I might be crazy but I think DL had a new building too. My memory may be
46 RWA380 : Thanks citationjet, I never knew that info, what did BN do with that leased aircraft? I take it that plane routed through HNL back to LAX and DFW? I
47 DTWPurserBoy : Not sure which particular aircraft that was but eventually all of the leased aircraft were returned to their owners. The World 747CF was converted ba
48 Viscount724 : I also knew what he or she meant. I was just clarifying that BI wasn't their official code for those who may not know. Many (possibly most) people re
49 ItalianFlyer : Thanks for the info DTW!! Yea, that is where I remember Inflight before I left the Company in 06. I have heard from a few flying partners at my curre
50 FI642 : Were they to file today, they would continue to operate. South America always was a gold mine for them. Too bad the folks that took over didn't get t
51 ScottB : No, the old Eastern Terminal A was demolished about 10 years ago and replaced with Delta's new Terminal A. The old Terminal A was in pretty bad shape
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