According to this column, Turkish Airlines has finalized the lease of seven Boeing777. They will start to be delivered in May next Year.
Any guess, which B777 were available?? Air India??
Another interesting information, they will take optional A333. Didn't know TK had these Options.
and finally we have talked about TK expanding its lounge facilities abroad. the first one to be finished soon in Moscow Vnukovo. LHR, JFK T1 and CDG to follow
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 4, posted (5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18058 times:
They could again be coming from Jet Airways as well. 9W is in the process of taking delivery of A333s, yet there is no sign of any significant longhaul expansion, so the airline has likely excess widebody capacity available. 9W currently has 5 B77Ws leased out to TG, which will gradually be returned as TG's own B77Ws are introduced in the fleet. 9W previously had exactly 7 B77W frames leased out to TK and TG.
tkfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 645 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17974 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4): They could again be coming from Jet Airways as well. 9W is in the process of taking delivery of A333s, yet there is no sign of any significant this);" class="badspelling">longhaul expansion, so the airline has likely excess this);" class="badspelling">widebody capacity available. 9W currently has 5 B77Ws leased out to TG, which will gradually be returned as TG's own B77Ws are introduced in the fleet. 9W previously had exactly 7 B77W frames leased out to TK and TG.
Are you sure that 9Ws 77W are for lease again??
This would mean Turkish Airlines is forced to reintroduce First Class. If so, I hope this time it will work better for TK.
On another note, if the rumors of Etihad to take a stake in Jet is true, I have my doubts TK can get those birds.
LHR, really? I expect them to move into the new T2 when that opens, which has one large common Star Alliance lounge. Why spend all that money for a lounge you will only use in the short-run?
Same applies to CDG really. Isn't the Star lounge sufficient? I guess CDG might have more space designed for dedicated lounges, unlike new T2 at LHR.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 7, posted (5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17907 times:
Quoting tkfan (Reply 5): This would mean Turkish Airlines is forced to reintroduce First Class
Air India aircraft also have First Class installed. TK could sell those seats as J if they wanted to avoid costly reconfiguration. A subfleet of 7 identically configured aircraft (I hope we are indeed talking about indentical configurations) would actually be manageable.
I do not see any other sources for these aircraft, at least not if they are to come from a single source. CX and CZ both have 772A models available, but neither of them have 7, and I am not sure that TK would even be interested in these aircraft. EK has 3 + 6 772A and 772ER frames, which will eventually be retired, but that also does not fit the total of 7.
Quoting tkfan (Reply 5): Are you sure that 9Ws 77W are for lease again??
Well, for sure 9W has not been growing its longhaul network (BRU JFK and DEL MXP cut, nothing new added), while the airline is currently taking delivery of new A333 equipment. So what is to happen when the 5 B77Ws currently on lease to TG are returned?
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 656 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (5 months 4 days ago) and read 17744 times:
These surely are to manage the shortage of equipment until the new orders arrive. IAH, possibly KUL, MEX, CCS, SFO all require additional capacity till 2014. I bet they regret not ordering more back in 2010.
TC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 336 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 17316 times:
These are surely the 7 77L's AI have that they want to get rid of. I bet TK picked them up at very low lease rates. The F cabin can always be re-configured to TK's requirements.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 13, posted (5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16639 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 8): These surely are to manage the shortage of equipment until the new orders arrive. IAH, possibly KUL, MEX, CCS, SFO all require additional capacity till 2014. I bet they regret not ordering more back in 2010.
How much more can TK expand at IST? I thought the airport was quite crowded already as is.
troest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15451 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 13): How much more can TK expand at IST? I thought the airport was quite crowded already as is.
I've been in transit in IST several times now, and it was definitely not the best experience. Rude airport staff and security, bad signage, impossible to find an available seat and rest, and overall an overcrowded airport. I know this is purely subjective, but I prefer to avoid IST at any cost. TK promotes itself as the best airline in Europe, but the moment you set foot in their main hub, that experience goes down the drain.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4110 posts, RR: 13 Reply 15, posted (5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 14570 times:
Expected news.
TK's Kotil past week mentioned they were short 5 WB frames for 2013. I was expecting it could be a mix of 777 and 332s since 332s easier to find.
-3 brand new 77Ws arrive 2014 and 7 more in 2015.
-So these 7 leased frames will be used by TK for about 2-3 years.
-I wonder it makes sense to receive them by next Feb, change the seat configs and be ready in April for IAH and others?
-Maybe TK will use its new subsidiary that makes airplane seats for this.
-Both AI and 9W have First Class, I hope they sell those seats as J and sell business seats as Comfort, instead of putting new seats in.
-Also this could be a good opportunity for TK to test the 77L, maybe Australia??
-And the usual IST situation??
-TK have ready flight crews/techs for another 7 frames or more foreign hiring?
LLA001 From Turkey, joined May 2005, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12788 times:
I hope they will convert the seat configuration, I hate when they change the seating arrangement due to plane changes last minute,
I have a question, since I live in Istanbul I never passed through Transit at Ataturk Airport. I always see a long line there, do you have to check-in and confirm your transit with someone or is it just the security line to get to departure gates ?
ytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1444 posts, RR: 23 Reply 17, posted (5 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12769 times:
Quoting troest (Reply 14): I've been in transit in IST several times now, and it was definitely not the best experience. Rude airport staff and security, bad signage, impossible to find an available seat and rest, and overall an overcrowded airport. I know this is purely subjective, but I prefer to avoid IST at any cost. TK promotes itself as the best airline in Europe, but the moment you set foot in their main hub, that experience goes down the drain.
Agree on most this. Washrooms were disgusting.
That said, coming from North America, I prefer TK and their Comfort Class to anything else across the Atlantic. And given the reasonably short changeovers, the airline does make up for the airport.
TurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1408 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12000 times:
Quoting ytz (Reply 17): Agree on most this. Washrooms were disgusting.
IST can be a big mess for sure but of the million flights I took from IST, I never saw "disgusting" washrooms.. That's a pretty bold statement for such a modern airport...
troest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11778 times:
Quoting LLA001 (Reply 16): I have a question, since I live in Istanbul I never passed through Transit at Ataturk Airport. I always see a long line there, do you have to check-in and confirm your transit with someone or is it just the security line to get to departure gates ?
In my case I did not have to check-in or re-confirm my onward travel in IST. However, the lines are long at peak hours. Often only two airport guards to check your onward boarding card. There are several things you have to do before you can continue to the departure hall depending on your nationality and destination. Some need to buy a transit visa before proceeding and/or need to go through extra security screening if traveling to the USA, Canada, UK and Israel.
Quoting ytz (Reply 17): That said, coming from North America, I prefer TK and their Comfort Class to anything else across the Atlantic. And given the reasonably short changeovers, the airline does make up for the airport.
With access to TK lounge IST is a whole other experience.
ETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 624 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11480 times:
Quoting ytz (Reply 17): That said, coming from North America, I prefer TK and their Comfort Class
Agreed. That was the main selling point for me. IST was not too bad, yes, the staff is not very helpful but they seem overwhelmed by the amount of crowd they have to deal with.
TC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 336 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10757 times:
The think is it won't do TK's long-term image any good as a hub & spoke airline if the transfer hub if IST airport can't handle the huge expansion. EK has grown on the back of DXB's superb facilities for example.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4110 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10601 times:
Quoting troest (Reply 23): 343s can come in handy for hot and high altitude airports.
Might well be the case. 343 are owned aging from 13-20 years old. They might be still in the fleet for another 3-4 years.
Any more ideas where these 7 T7s coming from?
TJCAB From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 276 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10981 times:
Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 18): Quoting ytz (Reply 17):
Agree on most this. Washrooms were disgusting.
IST can be a big mess for sure but of the million flights I took from IST, I never saw "disgusting" washrooms.. That's a pretty bold statement for such a modern airport...
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7184 posts, RR: 45 Reply 27, posted (5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9566 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 8): IAH, possibly KUL, MEX, CCS, SFO all require additional capacity till 2014. I bet they regret not ordering more back in 2010.
MEX is a big if. I don't see it happening in a long while.
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 10): AI has a fleet of 8 B77Ls, not all of which were offered for lease. Why would TK take 7 out of 8?
Why would TK go for 77Ls? They operate 77Ws. It would not make sense to get the smaller birds IMHO.
Quoting ytz (Reply 17): I prefer TK and their Comfort Class to anything else across the Atlantic.
gokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1098 posts, RR: 2 Reply 30, posted (5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9281 times:
This is some interesting yet very TK like development. They waited to order the planes yet they are growing and launching routes, so they shoot first and then aim. I am very curious where these 777's are coming from? 7 is not a small number, the only plausible option is AI and they have 777L's and 3 class ac with first class. TK has its own 777's arriving in 2014 so I don't think they will refurb the planes to TK 777's which leaves us with a new inconsistent product. I hope this won't be the case.
Rumor yes, instead of downsizing the ridicilously oversized comfort in favor of ridicilously small business section, we will lose a great Y+ product. More often than not there are no J seats available in most flights with more than half the comfort class empty....
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7184 posts, RR: 45 Reply 31, posted (5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8512 times:
Quoting gokmengs (Reply 30): instead of downsizing the ridicilously oversized comfort in favor of ridicilously small business section, we will lose a great Y+ product. More often than not there are no J seats available in most flights with more than half the comfort class empty...
I have read excellent reviews on TK's Comfort Class product here on a.net, so hopefully they will only right-size the J- and W-class cabins rather than shedding W.
ytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1444 posts, RR: 23 Reply 32, posted (5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7804 times:
Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 18): IST can be a big mess for sure but of the million flights I took from IST, I never saw "disgusting" washrooms.. That's a pretty bold statement for such a modern airport...
In a pinch, I decided to use a handicapped single washroom. Light was motion activated and no switch. Kept going on and off. Place stunk of smoke and had cigarette butts in the sink. Floor was dusty and grimy. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.
ytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1444 posts, RR: 23 Reply 33, posted (5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7802 times:
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 31): I have read excellent reviews on TK's Comfort Class product here on a.net, so hopefully they will only right-size the J- and W-class cabins rather than shedding W.
They could stand to go 8-abreast with one more row in that cabin. So 80 seats instead of 63. That would also let them lower the price a tad.
7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 517 posts, RR: 3 Reply 35, posted (4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6257 times:
Quoting gokmengs (Reply 34): Anyone have any confirmation regarding where these frames are coming from? Or what other possibilities are there besides AI 777L's?
7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 517 posts, RR: 3 Reply 37, posted (4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 5860 times:
Quoting gokmengs (Reply 36): Thanks for the reply, I understand they will be leased from GECAS, Which TK have a great relationship, but my question was who has these frames now?
I'm guessing they're some of the 16 GECAS still has on order
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 38, posted (4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 5842 times:
Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 37): I'm guessing they're some of the 16 GECAS still has on order
No way that we are talking new frames, as these are relatively short term leases in anticipation of TK's newly ordered frames, which will start arriving in late 2014 only. As indicated above, these 7 aircraft can realistically only originate from Air India (77L or 77W, although AI was looking to unload 77Ls and not 77Ws and AI has 8 77L frames, so why would TK only take 7?) or from Jet Airways (leased out frames to TG will start returning). There is always Singapore Airlines, but I cannot imagine TK would be interested in anything SQ has on offer.
7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 517 posts, RR: 3 Reply 41, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5466 times:
Let's look at this a little differently. Does it make sense that if you want capacity and are only doing a short term lease you wait another year and a half to get it and them start taking your own airplanes at the same time? Assuming you take 3 of your own in 2014 that's a large crew requirement in a very short time unless the flight crews come with the leased planes. Having found no articles in English to back up the one that started this topic except for a couple discussing TK leasing back some of their new order, I wonder if there is no lease for 7 additional airplanes.
gokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1098 posts, RR: 2 Reply 42, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5079 times:
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9616 posts, RR: 10 Reply 43, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4582 times:
Most likely the planes will come from Jet Aw I would say. I just came back from India yesterday, and I´ve done 4 flights to and from Mumbai and Delhi in the past two weeks. I´ve seen not a single Jet 77W what I find quite telling. I also saw two AI 77Ls with covered engines, assuming they are in storage.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 45, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3892 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 44): What I find quite telling is that all five 77Ws in the fleet have operated long-haul flights in the last few days
You overlook the fact that between December and May, 9W will add at least 4 A333s its its fleet, while the wet leases to at least 3 of 5 B77Ws to TG will expire. 9W will also withdraw from MXP DEL, while BRU JFK has already been dropped and no new longhaul flights have been announced. That alone gives the airline an excess of 9 widebody aircraft when compared to 6 months ago.
I am more and more convinced that if there is indeed a TK deal for the least of 7 aircraft, the source of these aircraft will indeed be 9W and not AI.
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6191 posts, RR: 79 Reply 46, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3871 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 45): You overlook the fact that between December and May, 9W will add at least 4 A333s its its fleet, while the wet leases to at least 3 of 5 B77Ws to TG will expire. 9W will also withdraw from MXP DEL, while BRU JFK has already been dropped and no new longhaul flights have been announced. That alone gives the airline an excess of 9 widebody aircraft when compared to 6 months ago.
No, I don't overlook anything. Better read again what I have replied to.
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 47, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3306 times:
Quoting gokmengs (Reply 42): deal could be for a wet lease. IIRC the previous 9W deal was a wet lease.
Only the initial part of the lease to GF and TK were wet leases. IIRC after about six months, the leases were converted to dry leases.
Quoting na (Reply 43): . I´ve seen not a single Jet 77W what I find quite telling.
All 5 77Ws in the Jet fleet are used regularly. Jet operates a rotation of 4 x 77Ws to LHR on 2x BOM-LHR na 1x DEL-LHR daily. The 5th 77W is on the BOM-HKG route, spending the whole day sunbathing at Chep Lap Kok.
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 45): 9W will add at least 4 A333s its its fleet, while the wet leases to at least 3 of 5 B77Ws to TG will expire.
karan69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2788 posts, RR: 19 Reply 48, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3218 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 47): The 5th 77W is on the BOM-HKG route, spending the whole day sunbathing at Chep Lap Kok.
I would hardly call that Sunbathing , they provide convinient business time flights and also connect with the UA flights to LAX/SFO from HKG.
Infact if the revert to their original departure time of 2330 hrs , they will even get a better yield
Also given the fact that it is cheaper to park the aircraft at HKG than it is at BOM or even operate a non profit route like BLR, or MAA with a day time 77W, what else do you suggest they do with the aircraft
karan69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2788 posts, RR: 19 Reply 49, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2768 times:
As per some sources a 4 aircraft deal has been signed with 9W , these will be the Current aircraft which are with TG which will go to TK as their leases expire
skipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 2382 posts, RR: 0 Reply 51, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2506 times:
Quoting TC957 (Reply 22): EK has grown on the back of DXB's superb facilities for example.
Emirates is really struggling as Dubai has some of the worst queues and disinterested passport control on the planet. That's the fly in the ointment and it's getting worse. Palatial terminals are fine but don't couple them with comically loing queues.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 52, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2221 times:
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