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Can This Plane Ever Be Serviceable?  
User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 22281 times:


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The plane seems to be missing the entire vertical stab/rudder assembly, flap assembly, and both engines. Would making this plane serviceable actually be worth it? It seems that the cost would simply be too great considering the amount of missing parts and the age of this A/C (build in 1985).


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25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCitationjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2467 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 22097 times:

CAN this plane become airworthy and WILL the plane become airworthy are two different questions. Given that truely historic aircraft in worse shape (like a B-17 or B-29) have been totally restored with less than that to start with, the answer is it CAN be done. However, economically it doesn't make sense, given the numbers of existing 737-300s available that wouldn't require the amount of work, it means that it most likely will not happen.


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5943 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 21510 times:

Actually, it wouldn't be that hard; CFM56-3's are a dime a dozen (haha), flaps are changed every so often anyhow (on condition), and the vertical can be replaced.
I don't see anything there that looks too difficult/costly, especially given that everything missing clearly went somewhere, perhaps to overhaul.
The catch is, what we CAN'T see in this photo. If other things have been robbed for service on other aircraft, well, it's pretty much a high tide to swim against.


User currently onlineB757forever From United States of America, joined May 2010, 437 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 21461 times:

Quoting JAGflyer (Thread starter):
Can This Plane Ever Be Serviceable?

More than 99% of aircraft can be made servicable, it all depends on the size of your bank account.  


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6915 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 21445 times:

Looks to me like the aircraft has been used as parts donor, I don't think you would do that if the end goal was to make it fly again. Take one or two things because you need them ASAP, sure, but it looks stripped of a lot of things !


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 21412 times:

As it lies, I think there could be more money had in turning that giant coke can into a bunch of smaller ones than making it serviceable again to *eventually* generate revenue.

User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3838 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20827 times:

Problem with aircrafts just sitting around is that operators tend to consider them as convenient spare parts stores.
The thinking is always along the lines of: 'we'll get an APU from that one in the mean time, since it doesn't need it, and then we'll overhaul the old one later when it goes back to flying'.

And before they know it they end up with an aircraft so derelict it's not even worth trying to make it airworthy again...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinedergay From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20314 times:

Looks like a call for the bean-counters.  


Flown on A300,A310,A318,A319,A320,A321,A330,B707,B720,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,L382,L1011,C5,DC-3,DC8,
User currently onlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7096 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19492 times:

When evaluating a derelict aircraft you have to consider not only what it will take in parts and labor to replace what is missing, but also the state of the paperwork. If it is not in order then virtually every part needs to be inspected and/or overhauled, which immediately makes the project impossible.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14954 times:

She's been pretty badly cannibalized, I doubt she will ever see the skies again. -300's are near the end of their useful life, so I'd be willing to say it won't happen.


737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineTrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 959 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14704 times:

According to the pictures photographer the aircraft is just being worked on and the vertical stabilizer being replaced. Bolt the tail, engines, and wing flaps/slats back on and looks pretty complete to me  

I'm no aircraft mechanic, but looks like it might just be going through a heavy check especially considering the paint was cleanly removed from the fuselage.


User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12809 times:

Of course it can be done.

However, it'll never fly straight again.



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
User currently offlinejetfixr757 From Jamaica, joined Jan 2006, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12093 times:

Quoting JAGflyer (Thread starter):
Quoting JAGflyer (Thread starter):
Quoting JAGflyer (Thread starter):

I have seen worse put back into service, she must be a low time/cycle bird parts are pretty available for them too!
Jet


User currently offlineoverloaduk From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2009, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11009 times:

I knew there would be a thread about this when I first saw the picture yesterday.

User currently offlineCO764 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10793 times:

According to Planespotters, she is 'active'. Been in service with PIA her whole life :

http://www.planespotters.net/Product...akistan-International-Airlines.php



http://flightdiary.net/CO764. Next Flights: ORY - PSA, CTA - CDG.
User currently offlineDufo From Slovenia, joined May 1999, 810 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7503 times:

Plane undergoing a heavy check can look quite interesting.
This is one of our planes during C check:

http://www.solinair.si/images/hangar/img_1482.jpg



I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
User currently offlineSavannahMark From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7442 times:

Judging by the work they've done on her exterior (sanding down to bare metal in preparation of new paint), I'm of the opinion there are plans to put her in the air again. Maybe plain white finish in preparation for sale - who knows.

User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1396 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6794 times:
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that plane has been robbed down to "Parade REST"! Yes it can be restored! with MUCHO Dinero, and about 2 months after all parts are in hand because it's down to Overhaul criteria as it looks right now. I'd estimate $3.5-5.2M depending on Corrosion. I have seen far worse repaired and was a rep for a B720 that went through restoration. The airplane was modified to carry JT8D-219's and it flew like a raped APE as a concept for replacing the KC135's engines with PW's rather than the CFM-56. The project came in on time and under Budget as well !!

User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6162 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6208 times:
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Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
I don't see anything there that looks too difficult/costly, especially given that everything missing clearly went somewhere, perhaps to overhaul.

That is what I was thinking. Maybe that plane is in the middle of an overhaul and all the parts were removed for repair/rebuilding/replacement. I have some old films of planes getting a heavy check and they have all kinds of stuff removed.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinebeakerltn From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5772 times:

It's the undercarriage that gives it away to me.. far too good for it not to be put back into service. If an airframe was not going anywhere the tyres get deflated at it generally looks like it stuck where it's sitting. That one looks ready to go.


300/319/320/321/330/732/733/734/73G/738/744/772/77W/146/EMB135/EMB145
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25978 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5670 times:

Why would anyone want to spend the huge amount of money to return that hulk to service? Would be much cheaper to acquire an intact retired 733, for example those now being retired by LH, which would need much less work.

User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1895 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4969 times:

Stored in Karachi (Coastal City) without a proper protection will create a big amount of corrosion, that is one of the causes can make a plane end its life, So it will be difficult to send it to service again.

It´s cheaper to lease another plane than make this serviceable again.


User currently offlineYakflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4710 times:

I am in agreement with SavannahMark. The picture was taken this month and it appears to me the plane is in the middle of a heavy maintenance visit. Nobody strips the paint off an airframe to scrap it. Based on the comment attached to the picture and what we can see, it looks to me like it will be painted and reassembled. I think the reason it looks so bad to some of the commenters is that the paint is off making it appear like a derelict.

User currently offlinespeedbird11 From UK - England, joined Feb 2010, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4116 times:

ATDB shows aircraft being parted out. She has 67625 hours 59472 cycles on her. Had the plane still had some paint on her I would have said she's a definate part out. However, the complete back to bare metal strip down suggests other use. Financially it makes no sense as there is more money in the parts value. If PIA really needed the capacity then much cheaper 300's are available. Odd........

User currently offlineSavannahMark From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Wish I had spent more time looking at the larger photo. Peaking throw the starboard emergency evacuation door, the interior looks completely stripped. Yes, I believe it to be a part out but find it odd they would have sanded it down to bare metal. Has the Pakistani government finally enacted some real environment laws that requires the removal of potentially hazard paints and/or solvents prior to the scrapping of aircraft/ships? Would certainly be a step in the right direction.

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9798 posts, RR: 52
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

While fundamentally it can become airworthy, I somewhat doubt an airplane in that condition could ever get anything other than a temporary airworthiness certificate, and not a certificate acceptable for commercial operations. It depends on the regulatory authority and Pakistan is more flexible than the FAA or EASA.

The FAA would revoke the airworthiness for that airplane because it no longer airworthy meeting its approved design. To get it back, an operator would need to demonstrate that the airplane is airworthy and capable of passing all inspections. While anything is possible, it would be very difficult to get approval to operate that airplane again since it is sitting out in an exposed environment. The corrosion in the cabin with a missing exit door would be extremely extensive. Most airplanes parked in the desert and parted out do not have valid airworthiness certificates.

There is a storage and preservation program that is included in the maintenance manual for airlines to keep store airplanes. When airplanes are parked and parted out not following those procedures, getting an airworthiness certificate to resume commercial operations is very difficult.

Here's the FAA guidance:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...9E1B?OpenDocument&Highlight=8130.2



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
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