boeingorbust From Canada, joined Oct 2011, 157 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14959 times:
Looking at the current expansion of YYC it looks as though the airports size is basically going to be doubled. With new cargo facilities and new hangars being built all over the place not to mention a new even longer parallel runway to 34/16, the Airport Authority claims this new expansion and capacity increase will attract new customers with A380's... They expect increased capacity in large amounts over the next 20 years. Also there's talk that BA's first 787 route will be YYC as it's currently their longest haul 767 route (so I've been told by BA employees). Do we see the A380 doing scheduled service to YYC with YVR so close? Is YYC going to become another YYZ or YVR? I guess more than anything I'm looking for some opinions on what I've heard and read so far.
LH just pulled out of that route not too long ago for not making enough money. So currently it seems either the competition is too high with AC and BA flying similar routes and YVR being so close or the market is not there - yet.
It seems to be a growing area with oil etc so maybe in the not so far future this will change.
boeingorbust From Canada, joined Oct 2011, 157 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14944 times:
I was referring moreso to the growing Asian market into YYC. LH pulled out because of lower yields. Economy was full but J class had lighter loads which didn't make the route viable to fly anymore. BA and AC loads as of recent have been very strong in both J and Y classes. I'm wondering if YYC isn't a bit of a white elephant..
Yes, LH was checking which routes doesn't make much money and they axed YYC. But when AC and BA make good money and the area is growing in the future there might be another LH flight. I haven't heard any rumours yet, but who knows.
Is YYC A380 ready? Would they be able to handle it?
boeingorbust From Canada, joined Oct 2011, 157 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14894 times:
After the expansion is complete they will be A380 ready. My other questions is will airlines actually get the rights from the government to fly scheduled service to YYC? Emirates tried to no avail and have limited rights into YYZ. Canadian government seems very strict on forcing as many people onto AC as possible to support the Canada's national failing carrier.
IndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2403 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14786 times:
Just because something gets built, it doesn't necessarily mean that airlines will come running to service YYC.
The market might be growing, but it will take time to find any real attractiveness to more carriers to come along. Atleast the expansion allows for airlines to add flights down the track though, which is always a good position to be in,
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3854 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 14221 times:
YYC cheerleaders should keep in mind that, while YYC is a major market in the Canadian view, in the world view it is at best a "small town". There will be some growth in international service for YYC, but it will never rival YVR,let alone YYZ.
Quoting boeingorbust (Reply 4): Canadian government seems very strict on forcing as many people onto AC as possible to support the Canada's national failing carrier.
Canada has a large number of Open Skies agreements, the EK/EY situation notwithstanding. Regarding the "failing carrier", with the recently resolved labour situation, AC's path forward is much clearer than it was 3-4 years ago. +$429M last quarter, not bad for a failing carrier.
bobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1360 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13986 times:
Here is something to consider. YUL has a population nearly 3x as high as YYC. Yet YYC and YUL are essentially tied in enplanements. Thus YUL is greatly underutlized and lots of traffic potential exists there, or YYC is greatly over-served and the market as a stimulated as it can get. Hard to see that YYC has lots of untapped potential, unless oil goes to $150 or more.
yegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1678 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13942 times:
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 7): Here is something to consider. YUL has a population nearly 3x as high as YYC. Yet YYC and YUL are essentially tied in enplanements. Thus YUL is greatly underutlized and lots of traffic potential exists there, or YYC is greatly over-served and the market as a stimulated as it can get. Hard to see that YYC has lots of untapped potential, unless oil goes to $150 or more.
But you have to look at the mix of pax here. YYC is huge on domestic while YUL has very little domestic market. So YYC can never reach up to YUL's international numbers.
YYC will continue to do well, but other airpors are starting to catch up. YEG now has 13 or 14 nonstop destinations in the US and will reduce dependency on YYC.
factsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 307 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13944 times:
One airline that seems to be quite happy at YYC, especially since LH departed, is KLM.
The airline increased capacity on AMS-YYC-AMS last Summer with the introduction of the A330-300 on Sat. & Sundays and the airline has now published 2013 Summer schedule with the A330-300 (292 seats) operating daily in high summer replacing A330-200 (243 seats):
flyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4930 posts, RR: 53 Reply 10, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13922 times:
YYC is not a sleeping giant other than a city that is very difficult to reach given its geographic location. EK has no interest in YYC - it was simply using Alberta/YYC has a ploy to get incremental landing rights to lucrative YYZ
As for Boeingandbust, may I remind him that Air Canada serves London, Frankfurt and Tokyo. How many other ciites in the USA with YYC pop.size have this kind of international reach?
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13886 times:
Quoting boeingorbust (Reply 4): After the expansion is complete they will be A380 ready. My other questions is will airlines actually get the rights from the government to fly scheduled service to YYC?
Dozens of airlines have unlimited rights to start service to YYC tomorrow, including every carrier based in the 27 EU countries (plus Switzerland, Norway and Iceland). QF could start service to YYC tomorrow and the same applies for many other carriers from virtually every continent where existing bilateral rights are either unused or not fully used.
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 7): Here is something to consider. YUL has a population nearly 3x as high as YYC. Yet YYC and YUL are essentially tied in enplanements. Thus YUL is greatly underutlized and lots of traffic potential exists there, or YYC is greatly over-served and the market as a stimulated as it can get.
You also have to consider geography. YUL is almost on the U.S. border and a few hours drive from many major U.S. cities. That's not the case for YYC which means a much higher percentage of Canada-U.S. transborder traffic flies to/from YYC than to/from YUL where cars, buses and trains are convenient options. The closest U.S. cities to YYC with any amount of scheduled service (GTF and GEG) are a 5 hr. (GTF) to 8 hr. (GEG) drive and they're hardly major hubs.
For a city Montreal's size, it has a very extensive range of international and domestic service. How many U.S. cities of similar population have scheduled transatlantic service on at least 12 airlines, including nonstop service to Europe, the Middle East, and Canada's only nonstop service to 2 countries in Africa (Morocco and Algeria)?
SuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 563 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13820 times:
I have to laugh. Calgary is a wonderful city and the nearby national parks are spectacular. But with a population of only 1.2M, it really is a small market. Energy gives Calgary an added air boost. But with service to London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Tokyo (all on small planes - and some not even daily), there really aren't too many more markets available for Calgary (Paris, Beijing, Seoul - perhaps). And those markets will be flown more with 787 size planes. I think the only time Calgary will see the A380 is on a diversion. Domestically and to the US/Mexico, Calgary will do well - especially because of its energy sector.
Skywatcher From Canada, joined Sep 2002, 441 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 13580 times:
In my opinion YYC is well served by the traditional carriers. Where I find that it is underseved is in the "holiday travel" sector. Given the very high disposable income levels of the city and the fact that it routinely plunges to -35C during the winter I'm surprised that Air Transat and Sunwing haven't grown far larger in this market.
LH just pulled out of that route not too long ago for not making enough money. So currently it seems either the competition is too high with AC and BA flying similar routes and YVR being so close or the market is not there - yet.
[quote=bobloblaw,reply=7]YUL has a population nearly 3x as high as YYC. Yet YYC and YUL are essentially tied in enplanements.
Why are you comparing YUL to YYC? They are 4 hours flight time apart. Over two time zones. Really doesn't make sense to draw any comparison to me or am I missing the point as usual?
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 8): YEG now has 13 or 14 nonstop destinations in the US and will reduce dependency on YYC.
YEG is a growing airport area and with the oil sands project up in YMM which is not able to handle the large aircraft.
Quoting SuperDash (Reply 12): But with service to London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Tokyo (all on small planes - and some not even daily),
I don't think that A333's and 763's to be small aircraft. If you think that maybe an A380 or B777 should be flying into YYC then maybe we should find a market for YYC that would warrent such a large aircraft.
SuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 563 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 13118 times:
Quoting brilondon (Reply 14): I don't think that A333's and 763's to be small aircraft.
Yes the 767, 787 and A330 are small twin aisle airplanes (admittedly the 330-300 not so much). The 777-300ER, 747 and A380 are on the large side of the scale and not a plane that will routinely see YYC on a year round basis
Quoting brilondon (Reply 14): If you think that maybe an A380 or B777 should be flying into YYC then maybe we should find a market for YYC that would warrent such a large aircraft.
This might have been for the OP, but here is my quote in case you missed it.
Quoting SuperDash (Reply 12): I think the only time Calgary will see the A380 is on a diversion.
brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 3167 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12930 times:
Quoting SuperDash (Reply 15):
This might have been for the OP, but here is my quote in case you missed it.
Quoting SuperDash (Reply 12):
I think the only time Calgary will see the A380 is on a diversion.
I did not miss it. I was responding to the OP. I agree with your assessment on the A380. I don't even think that a diversion would ever get to YYC, as there are so few airlines flying the A380 any where near YYC, they would divirt to YVR before they would need to get to YYC, wouldn't they?
yegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1678 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12800 times:
Quoting brilondon (Reply 16): I did not miss it. I was responding to the OP. I agree with your assessment on the A380. I don't even think that a diversion would ever get to YYC, as there are so few airlines flying the A380 any where near YYC, they would divirt to YVR before they would need to get to YYC, wouldn't they?
Actually, YYC and YEG are often used for diversion from and to Europe en route to and from California and to/from Asia to US east coast.
bobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1360 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12313 times:
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 8): while YUL has very little domestic market
Is YUL underserved and unstimulated or do the French Canadians just not travel to English Canada?
Quoting brilondon (Reply 14): Why are you comparing YUL to YYC? They are 4 hours flight time apart. Over two time zones. Really doesn't make sense to draw any comparison to me or am I missing the point as usual?
flying time and time zones arent really an issue here. The question is is there more growth potential at YYC. Considering YYC is smaller then AUS or BNA, given their level of service Id say no. The reason I mentioned YUL, is because YYC and YUL jockey for 3rd place among Canada's busiest airports. YUL is 3x the population of YYC.
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3854 posts, RR: 13 Reply 20, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12103 times:
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 19): Is YUL underserved and unstimulated or do the French Canadians just not travel to English Canada?
Quebecois really don't travel in bulk to the ROC, excepting Ottawa and/or Toronto. Ottawa is likely a drive, Toronto has rail, air,and car access. Quebec destinations are a mix or air or car. Ergo, YUL has relatively fewer enplanements given its' size compared to YYC.
Fiedman From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 184 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10637 times:
I know this is a little off topic but it does relate to the YYC expansion, first what is gonna happen to concourse C when the US airlines switch to the new transboarder concourse? and also where is Air Canada Jazz moving too when they close the walkway off concourse A?
YVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2084 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10438 times:
I think the only chance for massive expansion at YYC is if WS go for longhaul and make a hub operation from YYC. Although it is their base, I feel that even WS would not use YYC as their main international gateway, though could well operate a couple of P2P routes. All pretty hypothetical at this point anyway.
Because for half of the year its a right PITA to get there from anywhere, for example in summer here from YVR we would think about driving through, but in winter forget it. There is also very little loss of pax to US airports simply becuase it is too far north of the border with little of any real consequence immediately south of the border, compared to YVR, YUL or even YYZ.
Quoting boeingorbust (Reply 4): After the expansion is complete they will be A380 ready
YVR is A380 ready, with multi international airlines operating daily flights to the largest airports on the planet, yet no need for any A380 - so if YVR cant justify an A380, I cant see YYC doing so.
(That being said, I do believe YVR is a prime 380 summer route for BA and believe it will be a fairly early route for the big Speedbird - but you know the BA position in YYC of course. CX is the only other airline thay may be able to use it to YVR even though they have lost of lot of traffic to CZ and 3U, but of course they dont have them on order - and YYC doesnt have the Chinese, specifically HK, population YVR does).
Quoting SuperDash (Reply 12): Energy gives Calgary an added air boost
No question this inflates the numbers passing through an airport representing a relatively small population base - I bet a decent percentage of these pax dont actually even go into Calgary itself other than maybe for a nights sleep.
yegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1678 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10270 times:
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 22): Quoting SuperDash (Reply 12):Energy gives Calgary an added air boost
No question this inflates the numbers passing through an airport representing a relatively small population base - I bet a decent percentage of these pax dont actually even go into Calgary itself other than maybe for a nights sleep.
I think both YEG and YYC do a lot of oil and gas labourer shuttle flights. Some of these flightes depart (in the case of YEG) from the special terminal and the pax figures aren't added to the total pasenger and I presume tha may apply to YYC.
But either way, YYC's growth is now at a point where any new overseas based airline will have to think twice about launching new flights. They can just add new flights to existing Canadian destinations (YVR and YYZ) which would be much less risky than flying to YYC.
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 24, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10214 times:
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 23): I think both YEG and YYC do a lot of oil and gas labourer shuttle flights. Some of these flightes depart (in the case of YEG) from the special terminal and the pax figures aren't added to the total pasenger and I presume tha may apply to YYC.
Most airport authorities have figured out a way to count those passengers, in doing so boosting the airport passenger numbers.
Where there is a will, there is a way !
Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
25 JoeCanuck: The Q's will let WS expand into the states and allow for more routes in Canada, too small to be profitable with the 737. I believe YYZ will also serve
26 yegbey01: YYC will always be limited by the fact that it doesn't have large cities to pull passengers from. The fact that Encore is going to operate potentially
27 boeingorbust: I admit that AC is making a good turn around and has made some decent operational changes (some of which are ones made by the feds in recent aribitra
28 JoeCanuck: No it doesn't. Going point to point adds total flight to WS...but it doesn't eliminate or reduce flights to YYC. WS is still going to feed internatio
29 YYZatcboy: the biggest upside is having the paralells so we can reduce the atc delays. only problem will be the single crosswind runway when you try to cram two
30 Fiedman: never thought of that but that sounds like a great idea
31 rikkus67: From what I have read, the original terminal will handle only domestic flights. I believe trans-border(US) and International flights will be all hous
32 yenne09: As a Montrealer who went many times to Calgary, I have to admit that Calgary is to Vancouver what Montreal is to Toronto. But we have to admit that Ca
33 thenoflyzone: Ontario + Quebec = 21.5 million people. population of Canada: 35 million. hit reset....try again ma belle ! Thenoflyzone[Edited 2012-12-25 07:46:30]
34 thenoflyzone: That same thing "limiting" YYC, as you say, is also what makes sure Calgarians will always "fly" out of YYC. Anyone who wants to leave Calgary has no
35 yegbey01: You obviously didn't get my point. YYC is no YYZ and no YUL in terms of international traffic and never will be. Calgary metro is 1.3 million. Southw
36 Viscount724: You are misreading the 2011 Canada census summary. They said that in 2011, for the first time ever, the population of the 4 western provinces exceede
37 ElPistolero: Whether YYC is a small town or not is irrelevant. What really matters is the nature of the demographics, particularly the presence of expats and 1st/
38 Viscount724: Agree, YYC and YEG get far more diversions, usually for medical emergencies, than YVR, since both points are much closer to usual routes flown betwee
39 yyz717: It's no so much city population but catchment area. Southern Alberta (south of Red Deer) has a population of about 1.7M which is the catchment area o
40 Viscount724: If the thousands of people who I'm told drive between Montreal and Burlington Plattsburgh to use U.S. LCCs originated their trips at YUL, I expect YU
41 yegbey01: Much of Encore's flying will be through YYC. You are dreaming. Watch how many aircarft will be deployed out in Ontario and to US cities on the Eact c
42 yyz717: These are tiny, tiny markets catering mainly to low-yield ethnic traffic. Hence largely irrelevant, however unique (or quaint?) they may be. More pas
43 yenne09: Even if I made some mistake, regarding the Census, there is a general trend, like in the US. The economy is more and more going to the west and it is
44 yyz717: With the Q400, WS will be able to add many smaller markets from YYC, such as Penticton, Castlegar, Brandon MB. Also, replace most of their current 73
45 ElPistolero: Air Algiers does not fly to YUL daily (I can't figure out how often it flies). That aside, I can't think of any US city with any sort of links to maj
46 yegbey01: But the additional capacity out ot YYC must come at the expense of other airulines reducing capcity...Unless you think YYC will see a 20% increase ea
47 yyz717: Well you clearly missed my math. 4x daily Q400's on (say) YYC-YKA is about the same capacity as the current 2x daily 736 service. 8 daily Q400's is a
48 yegbey01: ^ You see that is not what I am referring to. As the Dash 8's handle regional traffic, where will WS send the 737's from YYC? Send more flights to PHX
49 bakersdozen: Sounds like someone is having withdrawal symptoms from trying to stop his "yyc habit." http://www.donovancreative.com/case-study/stop-the-calgary-hab
50 UALWN: Quebec's GDP per capita in 2011 was $43K. That was 15% lower than the average for Canada, 10% lower than the average for the US, but higher than the
51 ElPistolero: Not necessarily. Markets are not static. Prices will have a direct impact on the expansion and contraction of the market. Additional capacity will dr
52 brilondon: You forgot to add the anticipated flood west of the Quebec populace if the separatist government gets its way and separates from Canada.
53 MrChips: YYC is already quite well served in the vacation market. WS flies a pile of flights south during the winter on behalf of nearly every major tour oper
54 connies4ever: Absolutely no guarantee that the oil biz will continue to grow. Many oil patch watchers think the price could fall to $50/bbl, which makes the oil sa
55 thenoflyzone: 3x weekly. http://www.admtl.com/Passengers/AirS...stinationServed/International.aspx no, all three are non stop to GVA. Yes, for ALG and CMN. I can a
56 N1120A: AC is doing well and would be doing even better if it hadn't had massive profit centers, like Aeroplan, stripped away in that absolutely criminal BK
57 thenoflyzone: Lol..... An yet both in 2010 and 2011, it showed roughly a 6% increase y.o.y, better than YYZ, YVR, YYC, YEG and YOW. Not bad for an aiport residing
58 yegbey01: No Airline in Canada can drop prices significantly as you are suggesting to be able to stimulate demand and generate those types of numbers. Yes, the
59 Skywatcher: I checked the numbers. YYC was 12,073 million in 2011 while YUL was 13,229 million. How is a 1,156 million difference a tie? I also tried to check ba
61 Viscount724: And Geneva and Zurich (Switzerland is not an EU member but, like Norway and Iceland, it does have an Open Skies agreement with Canada). YUL-GVA is mo
62 Skywatcher: This is yet again factually incorrect. In terms of population per Federal riding based on the new 338 member house only Ontario (112k), BC (110k) and
63 ElPistolero: Ah, theres that 3 weekly number again. Which North American Monopoly routes? Algiers, Casablanca and Amman aren't served by AC. WS has 30% cost advan
64 connies4ever: As a Manitoban, Manitoba IS over represented. So is Saskatchewan. Quebec being right on the number is no accident: it is the basis for the distributi
65 yyz717: No, it factually CORRECT. The 4 Western provinces have 92 federal MP's. Quebec and the Atl provinces have 107 MP's, despite a lower population. Ths h
66 yyz717: It's my quote. These 4 factors (and the absence of any growth oriented economic or demographic trends in Montreal) will drive YYC traffic firmly into
67 Viscount724: AC operates YYZ-YUL-GVA with the same aircraft and a single flight number. YYZ-GVA passengers don't have to transfer at YUL and would not appear in Y
68 yyz717: I think they are still counted in YUL passenger numbers. I believe this is standard for all airports.
69 Viscount724: In my experience passengers are only counted if they have a flight originating or terminating at an airport, not when they're on a through flight whe
70 UALWN: Maybe I didn't make my point clear above. Let me repeat it: So, MIA, DTW, ATL, SLC, CLE and CLT are all located in states with lower PCI than Quebec.
71 ElPistolero: Wouldn't they CBSA at YUL on the inbound (assuming the flight operates YYZ-YUL-GVA-YUL-YYZ)? That could result on a double count due to having to cle
72 Viscount724: You still only have a single boarding pass GVA-YYZ. Customs/immigration no doubt maintain their own records but those passengers normally wouldn't be
73 yegbey01: Look, YYC will grow as the population in AB continues to grow. No questions about it. Remember this thread was about YYC being a sleeping giant...whi
74 yyz717: I've seen a couple of airport authorities (US and Cdn) in the past break out transiting passengers, including at least 2 airports count the "en route
75 NYCFlyer: I have always found it interesting how YYC can support flights to London but not NYC! Any thoughts as to why that is?
76 Skywatcher: The current parliament (308 seats) favours Sask/Man/PEI/NS/NB/NF even more than the corrected one that will be in effect for the next Federal electio
77 yyz717: No. You had your facts wrong. The West has fewer MP's than the East (Quebec and Atl). 92 vs 107 despite a higher population. Your refuted it and I co
78 woodsboy: During my years living in and near Calgary which ended only 3 years ago, I never found YYC to be overly busy, crowded or in need of expansion. US Cust
79 thenoflyzone: YYC handles 230,000 aircraft movements a year. The parallel runway is needed. Almost all intl airports handling 200,000+ movements a year have paralle
80 9252fly: I'm also curious as to where the AC Express turboprop operation will be moved to once the new international terminal is completed. It currently appea
81 GentFromAlaska: The national biz media is reporting this is primarily being driven by oil production. The YYC airport expansion appears to be on the fast track. YVR
82 Skywatcher: I did not lash out. I was simply responding to your original statement about how the seat count results in "more favoratism" to Quebec. It does not.
83 Viscount724: AC now only operates YUL-BRU. The flight no longer originates at YYZ.
84 MrChips: It's all being driven by oil and gas production, which is a double-edged sword. When times are good, they're really good; when they're bad, they're r
85 Skywatcher: The hydrocarbon industry in N.America is undergoing huge changes right now for sure. How this will impact Alberta in general and YYC in particular wil
86 kgaiflyer: Odd thread premise. Calgary isn't a 'sleeping' anything. Even its former lack of diversity (formerly the 'whitest' major city in Canada) seems to be t
87 planemaker: Over the next 10 years or so we will all be on an unpredictable path. With potential American oil self-sufficiency possibly on the horizon (according
88 NYCFlyer: No, I mean London, England! Why is it that YYC can support double daily 767s to LHR (AC, BA), while AC can barely fill an E190 to EWR? I just find it
89 yegbey01: Sure....YYC is not the business capital of Canada. It's Toronto. And while Calgary is such a large white collar business city (given its size), and h
90 YVRLTN: Connections to the rest of the world and a lot of the expats / immigrants are British in origin or heritage.
91 Viscount724: A high pecentage of passengers on YYC-LHR flights are connecting beyond LHR. NYC is not the business hub for YYC. That's Toronto and YYC has 17 daily
92 kgaiflyer: And also Vancouver for pan-Pacific business. YYC has 27 nonstops to YVR.
93 Viscount724: I would disagree that YVR is the business hub for YYC for the Pacific, with very minor exceptions. YVR is not a major head office city, again with so
94 yegbey01: YYC has more head offices than the all of Western Canada combined (including Vancouver). The YYC-YVR high frequency is due to YVR being a major hub fo
95 Planemaker: It is a volatile statistic as the majority of HQ's are tied to the fortunes of the oil and natural gas industry. As has been highlighted by a few peo
96 yyz717: What does that mean? WS also operates YYC-EWR in the summer months. Calgary is #2 in Canada for HQ after Toronto. Montreal is now in 3rd place (and w
98 yegbey01: ^ I don't disagree with you. Someone was wondering why not a lot of capacity on YYC-NYC.
99 YYCspotter: AC does it too. their HQ is YUL but their main operating base (domestic and international) is YYZ
100 MrChips: Your quote from the Globe article isn't just a warning of things to come, it's happening in a huge way right now here in YYC. The draw of high wages
101 pnwtraveler: Also it isn't always just the head office that generates a lot of travel. The huge growth in Head Office locations in YYC is predominantly oil and gas
102 connies4ever: Actually, already happened in YYC in the early 80s. Oil prices collapsed and people left the city by thousands. On the way out, many simply stopped a
103 GentFromAlaska: Whether commercial or private something tells me we are going to see an uptick with more flights between the big oil cities of OKC, Dallas and Houston
104 Planemaker: WOW!! But I guess that if oil were to go to $40/bbl or less, as some predict, the economy would contract severely... and government royalties would d
106 yyz717: Are there any stats that indicate O+G HQ's are less travel oriented? Given than YYC (a small city by NA standards) has NS flights to LHR, FRA, AMS an
107 kgaiflyer: It was an anecdotal comment relevant to the YYC catchment area past and present. Such is allowed on A.net.
108 yegbey01: YYC draws traffic from across Western Canada. Between YVR and YYZ, there's only one airport that has flights overseas (except for the few AC flights t
109 MrChips: I know - my parents went though that one back in 1984-1986 (I did too, but I was only a couple of years old at the time). It was as bad as you make i
110 connies4ever: Yah, will be interesting to see if the younger Mr Trudeau gets scapegoated the same way when he becomes PM. But that's enough thread drift for now.
111 JoeCanuck: The NEP wasn't a joke...I was one of the guys who lost his job the day the NEP went into effect. That has nothing to do with finding a scapegoat...tha
112 yegbey01: ^ funny enough you say that. I see that some of the biggest oil patch companies getting picked up by state owned companies - ala CNOOC and Petronas. I
113 JoeCanuck: Probably like PetroCan, CNRL or Talisman.
114 BO__einG: Good discussions all, everybody has had valid inputs to both the ins and outs of the YYC realm. As a long time member on this site and having seen man
115 BO__einG: I dont like our most valuable companies being sold off to foreign entities, it threatens our stake in our most prized possession which is the oil. But
116 MrChips: Comparing Calgary to the likes of Chicago and NYC in terms of commerce is laughable. If we were to consider these cities as countries, NYC would make
117 ACT7: Olympic, Malev, and Czech stopped flying to NA entirely because they were money losing airlines, Malev going completely bankrupt and Olympic basicall
118 c172akula: Why do so many people think the new terminal is just for international flights? It will be used for the transborder operations to the USA as well. So
119 ACT7: Okay, but even with about 3.3 MM pax total between transborder and international, it's still far too big for the current and foreseeable numbers. The
120 yegbey01: My point was that when airlines go out of business, some other airline comes in and fills the void. The concept of stimulating international traffic
122 Planemaker: If the perfect storm were to hit, what was previously posted... "I fear a massive day of reckoning is coming at some point. Basically, like what happ
123 Skywatcher: I was in Vancouver this summer and a friend I was visiting stated "real estate prices in Vancouver never go down". Similarly, over Christmas my brothe
124 pnwtraveler: Well Real Estate in Vancouver has gone done down. Toronto has cooled from the overheated market that was prevalent, however there are still more high
125 cyeg66: So we all agree, then. YYC will be a ghost town in a few years; oil will no longer power vehicles, the multicultural flow observed over the past decad
126 Skywatcher: Sheesh, somebody is a little touchy. All I (we?) were stating was that the oil/gas sector may have peaked and that a downturn is likely. As a result
127 PITrules: Taken at face value, that statement can simply mean that energy companies are more profitable than manufacturing firms, not that they travel less whe
128 c172akula: I think I've figured out the CAA's plan. Should the economy completely self destruct and our passenger numbers decline and we have this shiny new term
129 Planemaker: I think a significant problem are AIF's ($30 on Mar. 1)... they facilitate delusions of grandeur by airport authorities.And the airlines are happily
130 yyz717: I don't disagree, but the airport authorities implementing these fees are accountable to their BOD's who ultimately must approve them. Airport author
131 pnwtraveler: Not how she meant it. Profit obviously at the Petro firm is through the roof compared to the major name manufacturing. The petro company can afford m
132 Planemaker: AIF approval is perfunctory. In most cases, most BOD's (which are not elected by shareholders but appointed) just say yes to whatever the airport CEO
133 yyz717: The tenants, meaning the airlines, would simply pass the fee onto the customer, so we, as passengers, pay anyway. The current setup, with the AIF, is
134 Planemaker: Again, there should be no "fee". Airport capital improvements should be budgeted and financed normally and those costs are then passed on to the tena
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