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Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics   
User currently offlinersmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 21574 times:

Yesterday EIA parked all of its 747-200, that is 3 of them, there is still one parked at JFK in a non flyable condition.

Citing high operational cost and the Dept of Defense now no longer accepting 200 on any of their bases it was time to to retire them.

Critical financial issues at EIA also led to the decision to park them'

Sent to KPSM were N471EV, N482EV, N486EV. N485EV is at JFK and has been used as a spare parts plane for several months.

Now they have just three active 400's 491,492,493. They also have N479BA in Marana which was suppose to be flying 2 weeks ago.


Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 21580 times:

Why is the DoD no longer accepting the -200 on their bases? Is there some sort of safety concern?

User currently offlinersmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 21558 times:

KC.... High fuel cost. They were the one paying for the fuel. Other cargo company's that flew 200 for the DoD also had to stop.


Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 21281 times:
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Things aren't looking too good at Evergreen. They have been late with pilot payroll the last four pay periods and are not relying on AMC to keep them alive. Their AMC team might not be too happy about sharing the cargo with them to keep them afloat.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 21223 times:

Not for nothing but why would they not store their aircraft at the Evergreen facility at Marana?

User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1871 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 20950 times:
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Quoting jcarv (Reply 4):
Not for nothing but why would they not store their aircraft at the Evergreen facility at Marana?

Evergreen has a decent sized base at JFK.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2924 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 20948 times:

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 2):

KC.... High fuel cost. They were the one paying for the fuel. Other cargo company's that flew 200 for the DoD also had to stop.

That's strange. Kalitta has a -200 en route to Lajes AFB right now.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20858 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 6):

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 2):

KC.... High fuel cost. They were the one paying for the fuel. Other cargo company's that flew 200 for the DoD also had to stop.

That's strange. Kalitta has a -200 en route to Lajes AFB right now.

There are exemptions for certain types of missions. If there is no other lift available, or and equipment substitution (where the carrier picks up the tab for the extra fuel burn), AMC will issue a waiver.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5157 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20788 times:

Evergreen got some final missions for them last week with UPS.

User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5157 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20776 times:

Actually, DOD doesn't pay for fuel. It pays per ton-mile for cargo based on aircraft type (with a broad brush). It factors into the rate a number of factors, such as labor, capital cost, and, certainly, fuel. It may be that all aircraft in the category with the 742 are persona non grata. And it's not that they aren't welcome on the base. It's that they are not used for missions.

AMC pays a fuel adjustment based on the price of fuel, having calculated its rate based on the expected price of fuel.

[Edited 2012-12-24 21:31:23]

User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5157 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20741 times:

Oh, and in terms of "not allowing the 747-200 on its bases", I would just have to point out that, um, the VC-25 is a 747-200 supported by the AMC.

I'm pretty sure it's allowed to land at Air Force bases.


User currently offlineaaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1522 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 20573 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 3):
Things aren't looking too good at Evergreen. They have been late with pilot payroll the last four pay periods and are not relying on AMC to keep them alive. Their AMC team might not be too happy about sharing the cargo with them to keep them afloat.

Slightly off topic response - Appears the enterprise is succumbing to financial malaise. The ground handling division - E.A.G.L.E.- also has had several payroll issues over the past six months. The helicopter division has been dangled as a salve but, unfortunately, no takers thus far.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlinebottie From Belgium, joined May 2004, 281 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20477 times:

Quoting jcarv (Reply 4):

Evergreen sold their maintainance center at MZJ about 2 years ago


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1871 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20172 times:
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Quoting aaway (Reply 11):
The ground handling division - E.A.G.L.E.- also has had several payroll issues over the past six months.

I used to work for EAGLE and the had payroll issues constantly when I worked for them in JFK in 2004. The also quickly lost the BA contract too.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3207 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19687 times:

Oddly MMV has plenty of room for aircraft storage and many could be added to their aviation museum to draw even more visitors, other than the damp Oregon winters, why wouldn't EZ park someplace they own? Heck even the incredibly nice indoor water park built, owned and operated by Evergreen at MMV has a real 742 as the launch base for the waterslide all the way down.


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User currently offlineupcfordcruiser From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 18986 times:

Wonder if this means they'll come get their 747-200 that's been 'abandoned' at the KIAH cargo ramp for some time now.

User currently offlinesunilgupta From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 776 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 18545 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):
Oh, and in terms of "not allowing the 747-200 on its bases", I would just have to point out that, um, the VC-25 is a 747-200 supported by the AMC.

The VC-25 are special purpose military aircraft so cost is no object to begin with.

Second, they are the only -200s fitted with four GE CF-6-80 engines which are far more current and in widespread use as compared to the JT9D engines on the Evergreen 747-200s

Sunil


User currently offlinemadviking From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 18217 times:

Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 16):
Second, they are the only -200s fitted with four GE CF-6-80 engines which are far more current and in widespread use as compared to the JT9D engines on the Evergreen 747-200s

I saw the ship sitting at JFK last week. It is missing engine #1. Sad.


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 658 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 17424 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 8):
Evergreen got some final missions for them last week with UPS.

We got N486EV here at PHX almost every day up to the 22nd operating as extra lift for UPS, I knew they didn't have a lot of time left but I didn't think they would be retired that fast.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8075/8298577998_3f37dd92d1_c.jpg
Evergreen 747-200F N486EV by KoryC757, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8221/8295331431_bde8ee4c2b_c.jpg
Evergreen 747-200F and Emriates Skycargo 747-400F at PHX, N486EV, N415MC by KoryC757, on Flickr



Allons-y!
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16470 times:

This is not the end of the the classics yet, nor Evergreen. The classics are indeed being drawn down domestically for the time being. However, there is a chance they will be sent overseas and will exclusively fly there, starting next year some time, for the government.

As for Evergreen's finances, they are in a pretty decent shape. They definitely won't be going anywhere anytime soon, especially since management was shuffled.

Next year they will introduce another 3-4 747-400BCFs as well which will in the long run replace the classics permanently.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 16185 times:
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Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):

If they are in "pretty decent shape" then why have they missed numerous payroll dates for the pilots? The one on the first will be the 5th in a row if they miss it.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15876 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 20):
If they are in "pretty decent shape" then why have they missed numerous payroll dates for the pilots? The one on the first will be the 5th in a row if they miss it.

To me, when you don't have enough money to make payroll, your company is effectively dead.


User currently offlineqantas744er From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15825 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):

This is not the end of the the classics yet, nor Evergreen. The classics are indeed being drawn down domestically for the time being. However, there is a chance they will be sent overseas and will exclusively fly there, starting next year some time, for the government.

As for Evergreen's finances, they are in a pretty decent shape. They definitely won't be going anywhere anytime soon, especially since management was shuffled.

Next year they will introduce another 3-4 747-400BCFs as well which will in the long run replace the classics permanently.

In your dreams!

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):
If they are in "pretty decent shape" then why have they missed numerous payroll dates for the pilots? The one on the first will be the 5th in a row if they miss it.

  

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 21):
To me, when you don't have enough money to make payroll, your company is effectively dead.

  



Del Smith (evergreen founder and owner) is rumored to have had to tap in to his personal funds just to cover the operational costs for December.



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5157 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14518 times:

Are you saying that they are 5 payrolls behind, or that they missed the date and later made a payment?

There's a difference between profitability and cash flow, particularly when you are being paid by Uncle Sam. You are not getting a check from the government at the end of the flight -- you're being paid down the line. Sometimes, you need operating cash to keep things rolling.

I'm pretty sure that this UPS work required a significant expenditure for fuel and personnel. And yet I'm sure UPS didn't give Evergreen a check on the 23rd.

Oddly enough, it's often in periods of high-profitability expansion that companies get in a cash crunch, because they have to pay today for things that they won't be paid for for 90-120 days.

Not saying that this is the case for Evergreen, but if Smith is tapping his personal funds, he's certainly expecting to be repaid.


User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5157 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14505 times:

Speaking of which, I didn't see World doing any ad hoc work for UPS or FedEx this year. Are they near death, or did the downsizing help stabilize them?

25 Post contains images mayor : An ex-DL 747-200
26 TVNWZ : A company the size of Evergreen would (should) have a sizable line of credit/revolving credit agreement(s) to make operating payroll and expenses. If
27 Post contains links sxf24 : Evergreen currently has the lowest rating from S&P and recent comments from the ratings agency does not sound very positve. http://www.reuters.com
28 airtran737 : World was slated to fly for UPS but had to back out due to being down an aircraft for a month and a half. The have been late, but made the payments.
29 Flighty : For the longest time I thought this was regarding EVA out of Taiwan. They are a prosperous looking operation, so this was quite shocking. Carry on.
30 flightsimer : Did you ever think where all the money came from to fund the two museums, the waterpark, the helicopter ops, and everything else they have? From my Li
31 Max Q : Not true, the last few classics off the production line (200's and 300's) had the CF6-80 fitted in addition to some other -400 mods like the improved
32 RWA380 : Sweet, I flew on a DL 742 when I was a kid, not sure which ship, but I know there were not that many, so I will always wonder if that was the one we
33 hammer : This is concerning the Kalitta -200 into Lajes. They were carrying an engine for a Delta A/C.
34 TVNWZ : Companies do that all the time. They anticipate new arrivals. It does not mean they will actually arrive. And, I would venture, being 10 days late wi
35 Spacepope : Thanks for the update. Makes sense now, since most Lajes flights for the DoD originate at BWI, not ATL.
36 Newark727 : Is that so? Shame, I know there was an Evergreen 747-200 in and out of Ontario for UPS just a day or two after I paid the place a visit. I should have
37 Post contains links lightsaber : It is interesting how a drop in military lift needs are killing off a less economical type. Not surprising really... Incorrect. As they come up on hea
38 flightsimer : Three of the four will be in fleet within the first six months of the year, January, February, April/May with the fourth coming around October, IIRC.
39 FI642 : What happened to the World Aircraft?
40 Post contains links and images mayor : Well, there were only 5 in DL's fleet...... Here's 481EV, now the Waterpark View Large View MediumPhoto © Ben Wang Here it is, in DL service, as shi
41 aaway : Without divulging too much, Evergreen is in funds conservation mode. A couple of the initiatives I've observed are surprising considering the functio
42 mayor : BTW, while I was finding those pics on the database, I noticed that Evergreen's "Supertanker" was an ex-DL 747-100, also.....DL ship #103, N9898, MSN
43 United1 : ... actually it's one of the 5 -100 series aircraft that DL flew for a few years back in the late 60's early 70's. DL never flew/owned any -200's of
44 mayor : My mistake.......never was really sure if they were -100s or -200s. They took delivery in '70 and the last one left the property in '77.[Edited 2012-
45 Post contains links and images A388 : Am I glad I photographed their 742's not so long ago: View Large View MediumPhoto © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography Cheers, A388
46 lightsaber : Fair enough. But who else is going after the contract? I would just like to know their chances. Lightsaber
47 mayor : Maybe Omni and World?
48 airtran737 : Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business. They are everywhere.
49 FI642 : They are working one one. Oh boy are they. Beware!!
50 airtran737 : So I've heard. Luckily AMC won't take the 767 and there is no conversion program for the 777.
51 Post contains images mayor : Doesn't an AMC contract include moving pax for the DOD? Or were those GIs riding in the back of the Omni DC-10s that my son-in-law was flying, just i
52 Post contains images Aaron747 : If Evergeen is truly in a crunch it will be a shame to see the regular visits of their classics come to an end here in Nagoya. Their birds have been r
53 KC135Hydraulics : Are you sure about that? I see an awful lot of North American 767s at my base moving personnel!
54 flightsimer : I do not know who all is, but it is for an Afghanistan "shuttle".
55 airtran737 : You boys neglecting to read the post correctly? Did I not say "Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business
56 mayor : It wasn't your post where I missed freighter......it was further up the line where I missed it. It should have been obvious to me in those posts, whe
57 ChrisNH : Another one came into Pease last night, so that makes four. A Southern Air 744 also came in; quick-thinking spotters could have taken a photo of five
58 airtran737 : It will be interesting to see how it all plays out with Evergreen and the rest of the charter carriers. Ryan, World and Southern have all gone bankrup
59 FI642 : Agreed, I specifically am interested in seeing how this all plays out!
60 aaway : Closure of LAX ground handling operation announced today, effective date 28Feb13. E.A.G.L.E. handles four carriers - LH, LX, MU and TN. Two of the fou
61 FlyDeltaJets : CK has at least 2 747's parked next to building 81 at JFK for the past 2 weeks.
62 rsmith6621a : Last Friday night EIA had to send a crew that was ready to depart JFK to IAH when the crew was serve a Federal Court injunction to cease and desist op
63 ZANL188 : LOGAIR & Quicktrans have been gone 20 years.
64 KLASM83 : Jeez, it seems Evergreen is dying a death of a thousand cuts. Loosing E.A.G.L.E stations, owing back payments on everything. I wish the best to the em
65 Bluewave 707 : Southern Air has been operating out of HIK for sometime now ... they took over the EIA flights.
66 airtran737 : Did they get the plane out of JFK or is it still at the hangar?
67 rsmith6621a : I do not know....it was suppose to go to MCI for repaint back to EIA colors today. I doubt that is possible if the aircraft has only 3 horses on the
68 cbphoto : I had heard a rumor that Kalitta was going to park their 200s at the beginning of this year, but alas they are still operating them, so who knows wha
69 airtran737 : I think that the like of World and Southern will survive in the long term. World has worked hard to diversify their cargo customers and not rely sole
70 Post contains links Spacepope : Looks like Southern is retiring another 742 today, N783SA is on its way from JFK to MHV. 95500+ hours, 18500+ cycles. http://flightaware.com/live/flig
71 na : That ex-Nippon Cargo plane did a lot of mid- and shorthaul work in its career then with the average flight time just over 5 hours. 95500 hours alone
72 jetset : How much of that US DoD cargo that is transported on all those Volga AN124's could be moved on the B747-200's that are getting parked. Funny if it's t
73 cbphoto : My guess, 0% of it! The AN-124 is a special beast with the rear folding ramp (or nose ramp) and the large cargo bay and can carry special items. My g
74 KC135Hydraulics : I have seen the AN-124 at March ARB on several occasions. Every time, it had Marine Corps helicopters loaded and flight aware indicated it was heading
75 PHX787 : I got a nice video of her landing as well. Glad I did. Such a graceful bird.
76 FlyDeltaJets : I saw the ex SV Cargo plane taxing in JFK early Saturday morning. The SV logo on the tail was painted over and all the world except for Cargo was pai
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