airtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 3, posted (5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16679 times:
Things aren't looking too good at Evergreen. They have been late with pilot payroll the last four pay periods and are not relying on AMC to keep them alive. Their AMC team might not be too happy about sharing the cargo with them to keep them afloat.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2739 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 16351 times:
Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 2):
KC.... High fuel cost. They were the one paying for the fuel. Other cargo company's that flew 200 for the DoD also had to stop.
That's strange. Kalitta has a -200 en route to Lajes AFB right now.
KC.... High fuel cost. They were the one paying for the fuel. Other cargo company's that flew 200 for the DoD also had to stop.
That's strange. Kalitta has a -200 en route to Lajes AFB right now.
There are exemptions for certain types of missions. If there is no other lift available, or and equipment substitution (where the carrier picks up the tab for the extra fuel burn), AMC will issue a waiver.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4557 posts, RR: 17 Reply 9, posted (5 months 1 day ago) and read 16178 times:
Actually, DOD doesn't pay for fuel. It pays per ton-mile for cargo based on aircraft type (with a broad brush). It factors into the rate a number of factors, such as labor, capital cost, and, certainly, fuel. It may be that all aircraft in the category with the 742 are persona non grata. And it's not that they aren't welcome on the base. It's that they are not used for missions.
AMC pays a fuel adjustment based on the price of fuel, having calculated its rate based on the expected price of fuel.
aaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1443 posts, RR: 14 Reply 11, posted (5 months 22 hours ago) and read 15974 times:
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 3): Things aren't looking too good at Evergreen. They have been late with pilot payroll the last four pay periods and are not relying on AMC to keep them alive. Their AMC team might not be too happy about sharing the cargo with them to keep them afloat.
Slightly off topic response - Appears the enterprise is succumbing to financial malaise. The ground handling division - E.A.G.L.E.- also has had several payroll issues over the past six months. The helicopter division has been dangled as a salve but, unfortunately, no takers thus far.
With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2162 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (5 months 19 hours ago) and read 15091 times:
Oddly MMV has plenty of room for aircraft storage and many could be added to their aviation museum to draw even more visitors, other than the damp Oregon winters, why wouldn't EZ park someplace they own? Heck even the incredibly nice indoor water park built, owned and operated by Evergreen at MMV has a real 742 as the launch base for the waterslide all the way down.
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
sunilgupta From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 770 posts, RR: 15 Reply 16, posted (5 months 16 hours ago) and read 13949 times:
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10): Oh, and in terms of "not allowing the 747-200 on its bases", I would just have to point out that, um, the VC-25 is a 747-200 supported by the AMC.
The VC-25 are special purpose military aircraft so cost is no object to begin with.
Second, they are the only -200s fitted with four GE CF-6-80 engines which are far more current and in widespread use as compared to the JT9D engines on the Evergreen 747-200s
madviking From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 178 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 months 15 hours ago) and read 13620 times:
Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 16): Second, they are the only -200s fitted with four GE CF-6-80 engines which are far more current and in widespread use as compared to the JT9D engines on the Evergreen 747-200s
I saw the ship sitting at JFK last week. It is missing engine #1. Sad.
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 503 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (5 months 13 hours ago) and read 12825 times:
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 8): Evergreen got some final missions for them last week with UPS.
We got N486EV here at PHX almost every day up to the 22nd operating as extra lift for UPS, I knew they didn't have a lot of time left but I didn't think they would be retired that fast.
flightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 409 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (5 months 11 hours ago) and read 11869 times:
This is not the end of the the classics yet, nor Evergreen. The classics are indeed being drawn down domestically for the time being. However, there is a chance they will be sent overseas and will exclusively fly there, starting next year some time, for the government.
As for Evergreen's finances, they are in a pretty decent shape. They definitely won't be going anywhere anytime soon, especially since management was shuffled.
Next year they will introduce another 3-4 747-400BCFs as well which will in the long run replace the classics permanently.
If they are in "pretty decent shape" then why have they missed numerous payroll dates for the pilots? The one on the first will be the 5th in a row if they miss it.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
KC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 months 10 hours ago) and read 11279 times:
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 20): If they are in "pretty decent shape" then why have they missed numerous payroll dates for the pilots? The one on the first will be the 5th in a row if they miss it.
To me, when you don't have enough money to make payroll, your company is effectively dead.
qantas744er From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1252 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (5 months 10 hours ago) and read 11223 times:
Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):
This is not the end of the the classics yet, nor Evergreen. The classics are indeed being drawn down domestically for the time being. However, there is a chance they will be sent overseas and will exclusively fly there, starting next year some time, for the government.
As for Evergreen's finances, they are in a pretty decent shape. They definitely won't be going anywhere anytime soon, especially since management was shuffled.
Next year they will introduce another 3-4 747-400BCFs as well which will in the long run replace the classics permanently.
In your dreams!
Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19): If they are in "pretty decent shape" then why have they missed numerous payroll dates for the pilots? The one on the first will be the 5th in a row if they miss it.
Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 21): To me, when you don't have enough money to make payroll, your company is effectively dead.
Del Smith (evergreen founder and owner) is rumored to have had to tap in to his personal funds just to cover the operational costs for December.
wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4557 posts, RR: 17 Reply 23, posted (5 months 7 hours ago) and read 9920 times:
Are you saying that they are 5 payrolls behind, or that they missed the date and later made a payment?
There's a difference between profitability and cash flow, particularly when you are being paid by Uncle Sam. You are not getting a check from the government at the end of the flight -- you're being paid down the line. Sometimes, you need operating cash to keep things rolling.
I'm pretty sure that this UPS work required a significant expenditure for fuel and personnel. And yet I'm sure UPS didn't give Evergreen a check on the 23rd.
Oddly enough, it's often in periods of high-profitability expansion that companies get in a cash crunch, because they have to pay today for things that they won't be paid for for 90-120 days.
Not saying that this is the case for Evergreen, but if Smith is tapping his personal funds, he's certainly expecting to be repaid.
wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4557 posts, RR: 17 Reply 24, posted (5 months 7 hours ago) and read 9907 times:
Speaking of which, I didn't see World doing any ad hoc work for UPS or FedEx this year. Are they near death, or did the downsizing help stabilize them?
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9199 posts, RR: 14 Reply 25, posted (5 months 6 hours ago) and read 10440 times:
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14): Heck even the incredibly nice indoor water park built, owned and operated by Evergreen at MMV has a real 742 as the launch base for the waterslide all the way down.
An ex-DL 747-200
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
A company the size of Evergreen would (should) have a sizable line of credit/revolving credit agreement(s) to make operating payroll and expenses. If they don't or are tapped out on them, that in itself, is a reason to believe the company is having financial issues. Payroll being late is a sure fire sign.
airtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 28, posted (5 months 2 hours ago) and read 9821 times:
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 24): Speaking of which, I didn't see World doing any ad hoc work for UPS or FedEx this year. Are they near death, or did the downsizing help stabilize them?
World was slated to fly for UPS but had to back out due to being down an aircraft for a month and a half.
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 23): Are you saying that they are 5 payrolls behind, or that they missed the date and later made a payment?
The have been late, but made the payments. The payroll for the 14th wasn't going to come until the 24th from what has been said on other websites.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
flightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 409 posts, RR: 1 Reply 30, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9538 times:
Did you ever think where all the money came from to fund the two museums, the waterpark, the helicopter ops, and everything else they have?
From my Limited understanding of it from someone else who is familiar with the subject, there were multiple issues behind the scenes which is causing the airline to "lose" money. Such as aircraft, which are not owned by the airline itself, being leased for absurdly high rates; which were higher than what -400 based frames could be acquired for by multiple factors.
However, with the change in management that came a while ago, the leases of the classics were no longer going to be tolerated and the -400s began coming online to replace them.
Now as of two weeks ago, from what I was told, they was still a possibility they could get another contract flying overseas with the classics for the military. This would allow the fleet to continue to operate, but ultimately, the classics are on their way out. Now this could have changed if a decision/ contract award was made since the first week of the month.
Again, they have four new BCFs on their way into the fleet this upcoming year. I don't think they would be bringing in new metal if they were on the verge of shutting down or these additions would put them into a situation where they couldn't cover the operating costs.
Max Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3290 posts, RR: 19 Reply 31, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9475 times:
Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 16):
Second, they are the only -200s fitted with four GE CF-6-80 engines which are far more current and in widespread use as compared to the JT9D engines on the Evergreen 747-200s
Not true, the last few classics off the production line (200's and 300's) had the CF6-80 fitted in addition to some other -400 mods like the improved wing to body fairing.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
Sweet, I flew on a DL 742 when I was a kid, not sure which ship, but I know there were not that many, so I will always wonder if that was the one we flew on, when I look up at it again. I also got to fly EZ as a passenger once, it was Aug 1980, and although not the best, it was a real cool experience & the only DC-8 I've flown to Hawaii, routing PDX-OGG-PDX
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
TVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2200 posts, RR: 1 Reply 34, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9025 times:
Quoting flightsimer (Reply 30): Again, they have four new BCFs on their way into the fleet this upcoming year. I don't think they would be bringing in new metal if they were on the verge of shutting down or these additions would put them into a situation where they couldn't cover the operating costs.
Companies do that all the time. They anticipate new arrivals. It does not mean they will actually arrive. And, I would venture, being 10 days late with payroll, I don't know how they could actually accomplish that.
Newark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1175 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8854 times:
Is that so? Shame, I know there was an Evergreen 747-200 in and out of Ontario for UPS just a day or two after I paid the place a visit. I should have gone up to see it, then.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10691 posts, RR: 100 Reply 37, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8774 times:
It is interesting how a drop in military lift needs are killing off a less economical type. Not surprising really...
Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):
This is not the end of the the classics yet,
Incorrect. As they come up on heavy maintenance, they are being retired globally. Fuel is just too pricey to make money with a 742. Better to fly an MD-11, 777F, or if the volume is needed 744F/748F. Heck, even 744BCFs are being retired. The weak cargo market and high fuel prices are shifting the market quickly.
Look at how many 742Fs are stored! It isn't until page 7 one finds a non-stored, non-Iranian 742F 'active.'
By the time there is an uptick, there will be too many A330s and 772s ready for conversion to bother re-activing the type unless fuel prices plummet. We can say the end of the 742 is near.
Quoting flightsimer (Reply 30): Again, they have four new BCFs on their way into the fleet this upcoming year.
Then that ends the 742s... Its all about fuel burn.
flightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 409 posts, RR: 1 Reply 38, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8534 times:
I said that the BCFs are replacing them, but the fleet is not permanently retired YET. They could possibly still be sent overseas IF they get a contract they were going after. If they do get the contract, they will be operating two specific routes for the military USING classics for the time being. However, it is a fact that they are retired for domestic use within the US, which is why they are currently parked. If they do not get the contract, then they are indeed completely done within the airline.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9199 posts, RR: 14 Reply 40, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8180 times:
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 32): Sweet, I flew on a DL 742 when I was a kid, not sure which ship, but I know there were not that many, so I will always wonder if that was the one we flew on, when I look up at it again.
aaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1443 posts, RR: 14 Reply 41, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8078 times:
Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19): As for Evergreen's finances, they are in a pretty decent shape. They definitely won't be going anywhere anytime soon, especially since management was shuffled.
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 23): There's a difference between profitability and cash flow, particularly when you are being paid by Uncle Sam. You are not getting a check from the government at the end of the flight -- you're being paid down the line. Sometimes, you need operating cash to keep things rolling.
I'm pretty sure that this UPS work required a significant expenditure for fuel and personnel. And yet I'm sure UPS didn't give Evergreen a check on the 23rd.
Oddly enough, it's often in periods of high-profitability expansion that companies get in a cash crunch, because they have to pay today for things that they won't be paid for for 90-120 days.
Without divulging too much, Evergreen is in funds conservation mode. A couple of the initiatives I've observed are surprising considering the functions sacrificed are basic (read: often taken for granted) to any airline and/or ground handling operation. Another initiative recently implemented (repairing ground service equipment, then selling said G.S.E.) smacks of a company circling the wagons.
Quoting rsmith6621a (Thread starter): Citing high operational cost and the Dept of Defense now no longer accepting 200 on any of their bases it was time to to retire them.
Critical financial issues at EIA also led to the decision to park them'
My understanding is that the DoD requirement to upgrade from -200s to -400s is what led to the financial issue(s). IOW, EV's hand was forced in order to remain in contention for DoD contracts.
With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
BTW, while I was finding those pics on the database, I noticed that Evergreen's "Supertanker" was an ex-DL 747-100, also.....DL ship #103, N9898, MSN 19898.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
United1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5337 posts, RR: 8 Reply 43, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7884 times:
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 32):
Quoting mayor (Reply 25):
An ex-DL 747-200
Sweet, I flew on a DL 742 when I was a kid, not sure which ship, but I know there were not that many, so I will always wonder if that was the one we flew on, when I look up at it again.
... actually it's one of the 5 -100 series aircraft that DL flew for a few years back in the late 60's early 70's. DL never flew/owned any -200's of their own...outside of the -200's that NW had.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9199 posts, RR: 14 Reply 44, posted (4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7538 times:
Quoting United1 (Reply 43): ... actually it's one of the 5 -100 series aircraft that DL flew for a few years back in the late 60's early 70's. DL never flew/owned any -200's of their own...outside of the -200's that NW had.
My mistake.......never was really sure if they were -100s or -200s.
They took delivery in '70 and the last one left the property in '77.
[Edited 2012-12-27 08:19:40]
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9199 posts, RR: 14 Reply 51, posted (4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 6983 times:
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 48): Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business. They are everywhere.
Doesn't an AMC contract include moving pax for the DOD? Or were those GIs riding in the back of the Omni DC-10s that my son-in-law was flying, just in disguise?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7646 posts, RR: 28 Reply 52, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6986 times:
If Evergeen is truly in a crunch it will be a shame to see the regular visits of their classics come to an end here in Nagoya. Their birds have been regular visitors to NGO for the last few years, and always get the observers on Skydeck in an excited frenzy as both departures and arrivals have a tendency to use just about the entirety of rwy 18/36.
KC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6964 times:
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 50): So I've heard. Luckily AMC won't take the 767 and there is no conversion program for the 777.
Are you sure about that? I see an awful lot of North American 767s at my base moving personnel!
flightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 409 posts, RR: 1 Reply 54, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6913 times:
airtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 55, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6632 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 51): Doesn't an AMC contract include moving pax for the DOD? Or were those GIs riding in the back of the Omni DC-10s that my son-in-law was flying, just in disguise?
Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 53): Are you sure about that? I see an awful lot of North American 767s at my base moving personnel!
You boys neglecting to read the post correctly? Did I not say "Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business. They are everywhere."
Freighter being the operative word in this sentence. Omni doesn't own a DC-10, 777 or 767 freighter, although they are working on adding the 767 freighter which AMC won't use due to its contours.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9199 posts, RR: 14 Reply 56, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6597 times:
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 55): You boys neglecting to read the post correctly? Did I not say "Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business. They are everywhere."
Freighter being the operative word in this sentence. Omni doesn't own a DC-10, 777 or 767 freighter, although they are working on adding the 767 freighter which AMC won't use due to its contours.
It wasn't your post where I missed freighter......it was further up the line where I missed it. It should have been obvious to me in those posts, when they were referring to BCFs, 777Fs, etc., that it was a cargo contract they were talking about.
BTW, does anyone know if the Air Force still contracts with freight carriers within the CONUS in the LOGAIR program?
[Edited 2012-12-28 11:29:36]
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3807 posts, RR: 2 Reply 57, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6138 times:
Another one came into Pease last night, so that makes four. A Southern Air 744 also came in; quick-thinking spotters could have taken a photo of five 747s on the tarmac there this morning...something not even Boston can boast.
The 744 left for Dover late this morning, but those Evergreen 747s aren't going anywhere in the imminent future.
airtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 58, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5536 times:
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out with Evergreen and the rest of the charter carriers. Ryan, World and Southern have all gone bankrupt recently. Omni and Atlas seem to be in a stable position. Not really sure how Kalitta is doing, but they always seem to make it.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
FI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1056 posts, RR: 2 Reply 59, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5191 times:
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 58): It will be interesting to see how it all plays out with Evergreen and the rest of the charter carriers. Ryan, World and Southern have all gone bankrupt recently. Omni and Atlas seem to be in a stable position. Not really sure how Kalitta is doing, but they always seem to make it.
Agreed, I specifically am interested in seeing how this all plays out!
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
aaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1443 posts, RR: 14 Reply 60, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5051 times:
Closure of LAX ground handling operation announced today, effective date 28Feb13. E.A.G.L.E. handles four carriers - LH, LX, MU and TN. Two of the four had notified E.A.G.L.E of their intent to change vendors. A third was "strongly rumored" to be changing. The fourth....merely rumored.
I believe the competing vendors smelled blood in the water and really put forth an effort to solicit EV's carriers.
Real good employees @ Evergreen - LAX. My thoughts are with them and I'm hoping they'll land in new positions quickly.
With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
rsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 192 posts, RR: 2 Reply 62, posted (4 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4908 times:
Last Friday night EIA had to send a crew that was ready to depart JFK to IAH when the crew was serve a Federal Court injunction to cease and desist operating an engine on a 744F due to back payments on one of its powerplants. The flight was being operated as an SV flight. SV canceled the remaining 5 days left on the contract ending a long term relationship.
KLASM83 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 584 posts, RR: 0 Reply 64, posted (4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4805 times:
Jeez, it seems Evergreen is dying a death of a thousand cuts. Loosing E.A.G.L.E stations, owing back payments on everything. I wish the best to the employees, because when EV goes under, it seems a lot of good people will be out of work.
airtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 66, posted (4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4417 times:
Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 62): Last Friday night EIA had to send a crew that was ready to depart JFK to IAH when the crew was serve a Federal Court injunction to cease and desist operating an engine on a 744F due to back payments on one of its powerplants. The flight was being operated as an SV flight. SV canceled the remaining 5 days left on the contract ending a long term relationship.
Did they get the plane out of JFK or is it still at the hangar?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
rsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 192 posts, RR: 2 Reply 67, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 66): Did they get the plane out of JFK or is it still at the hangar?
I do not know....it was suppose to go to MCI for repaint back to EIA colors today. I doubt that is possible if the aircraft has only 3 horses on the wings.
Also the crew was sent back to the hotel,I was not clear in my post.
cbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1508 posts, RR: 6 Reply 68, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4230 times:
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 58): Not really sure how Kalitta is doing, but they always seem to make it.
I had heard a rumor that Kalitta was going to park their 200s at the beginning of this year, but alas they are still operating them, so who knows what they are up too!
Could we be seeing the beginning of the end for major ACMI cargo ops in the US? Is this just a phase, or is this the new reality? Can the likes of World and Southern and Evergreen pull through, or will we be left with just Atlas for major cargo ops? Not trying to be dramatic, just a realistic question with all of the foreign wars winding down, contracts drying up and the lack of affordable 744F and BCFs
airtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 69, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3918 times:
Quoting cbphoto (Reply 68): Could we be seeing the beginning of the end for major ACMI cargo ops in the US? Is this just a phase, or is this the new reality? Can the likes of World and Southern and Evergreen pull through, or will we be left with just Atlas for major cargo ops? Not trying to be dramatic, just a realistic question with all of the foreign wars winding down, contracts drying up and the lack of affordable 744F and BCFs
I think that the like of World and Southern will survive in the long term. World has worked hard to diversify their cargo customers and not rely solely on AMC, as has Southern. They are both in Chapter 11 trying to shed debt, rationalize their fleets, and come out with a good product at a decent price. 747BDSF's can be had for about $400,000 a month and as more 777-300ER's and A350-1000's come on the market, there will be more 747's available for conversion thus lowering the lease rates.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9614 posts, RR: 10 Reply 71, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3575 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 70): Looks like Southern is retiring another 742 today, N783SA is on its way from JFK to MHV. 95500+ hours, 18500+ cycles.
That ex-Nippon Cargo plane did a lot of mid- and shorthaul work in its career then with the average flight time just over 5 hours. 95500 hours alone is not really much for a 25 year old 747.
jetset From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 349 posts, RR: 0 Reply 72, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3164 times:
How much of that US DoD cargo that is transported on all those Volga AN124's could be moved on the B747-200's that are getting parked.
Funny if it's true that the DoD don't contract B747-200 anymore but the AN124 is fine.
I understand the AN124 can haul things the B747-200 can't but if this cargo was moved by C5 or C17 that would free up some lift the old B747-200 can do.
Seems unfair that US Freight companies are parking planes because of lack of demand but the US DoD continue to use the Volga, Polet, and Antonov companies.
cbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1508 posts, RR: 6 Reply 73, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3112 times:
Quoting jetset (Reply 72): How much of that US DoD cargo that is transported on all those Volga AN124's could be moved on the B747-200's that are getting parked.
Funny if it's true that the DoD don't contract B747-200 anymore but the AN124 is fine.
I understand the AN124 can haul things the B747-200 can't but if this cargo was moved by C5 or C17 that would free up some lift the old B747-200 can do.
Seems unfair that US Freight companies are parking planes because of lack of demand but the US DoD continue to use the Volga, Polet, and Antonov companies.
Anyway just a thought
Jetset
My guess, 0% of it! The AN-124 is a special beast with the rear folding ramp (or nose ramp) and the large cargo bay and can carry special items. My guess is even if all of the C-5s and C-17s are used, the DOD still has excess heavy cargo to be lifted, they would contract the AN-124! The 747 and AN-124 can't be used in the same sentence when it comes to hauling freight, they are just 2 completely different animals!
KC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 74, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2824 times:
I have seen the AN-124 at March ARB on several occasions. Every time, it had Marine Corps helicopters loaded and flight aware indicated it was heading to Hawaii. I believe the AN-124s are being used over the C-17 because of the front loading and the width and height of the cargo bay. The AN-124 is larger than the C-5, so I guess the Marine Corps finds it a better suit for transporting its helicopters.
FlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1625 posts, RR: 3 Reply 76, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2598 times:
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 66): Did they get the plane out of JFK or is it still at the hangar?
I saw the ex SV Cargo plane taxing in JFK early Saturday morning. The SV logo on the tail was painted over and all the world except for Cargo was painted over. Still in SV general colors though.
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