Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1673 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 22163 times:
Jokes aside, the AF passengers who want to connect between CDG and Strasbourg, will have from April 2013 the option of taking a high speed train connection, or an AF flight.
Passengers will be issued with a single ticket for both aircraft and train sectors and they will be able to check-in up to 15 minutes before the train departure time for their entire trip. Baggage loading and unloading service and dedicated baggage drop-off counters will be available. On the train, all passengers will travel first class, irrespective of their class of travel during their flight.
Azure From France, joined Dec 2012, 201 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 21969 times:
Your title is a bit provocative ! AF is not a train operator (and has no intention to become one AFAIK) ! The partnership between AF and the french railways is just a clever move, and will be a great benefit for many clients of both companies. In Europe in general and in France in particular, decision makers are keen on offering a good interconnectivity between rail and air...
Aquila3 From Italy, joined Nov 2010, 208 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 21813 times:
Looks like that they realized that they can't do the job well (or at least profitably) themselves, so they give it to somebody else (possibly for a little income). That would be a good pragmatic strategy.
BTW, France with its TGV high speed lines, together with Switzerland (yeah, ok, them again) it is one of the few countries where I have found an excellent train service.
[Edited 2012-12-26 06:41:14]
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 21568 times:
It's a common phenomenon. LH, for instance, code-shares with the German Railways between Cologne and Frankfurt as well as Stuttgart and Frankfurt. Both make perfect sense and in the case of Cologne, the train has completely replaced the aircraft.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1673 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 21115 times:
Quoting Azure (Reply 1): Your title is a bit provocative ! AF is not a train operator (and has no intention to become one AFAIK) !
Oh I know, I was putting some humor in it...
Quoting aloges (Reply 4): Both make perfect sense and in the case of Cologne, the train has completely replaced the aircraft.
I honestly admire the flexibility in some of the European countries, I could be wrong, but compared with the awful transport system and infrastructure we have in the vast majority of South America, the way Europe sees the transport is definitely the way to go.... the question is how many years will take to develop something like this over here...
DariusBieber From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 128 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20885 times:
Rail travel throughout Europe is extremely planned out and connections are everywhere. It's not anything like it is in the Americas. That being said, Air France is making a move it sees fit to help them out. I know a bunch of people in Europe who would prefer taking the train rather than fly due to security, etc..
Azure From France, joined Dec 2012, 201 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19593 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 5): honestly admire the flexibility in some of the European countries, I could be wrong, but compared with the awful transport system and infrastructure we have in the vast majority of South America, the way Europe sees the transport is definitely the way to go.... the question is how many years will take to develop something like this over here...
Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 6): Rail travel throughout Europe is extremely planned out and connections are everywhere. It's not anything like it is in the Americas.
It is a question of geography and population density. It will take a long time before the need of a high speed train exists between NY and LA or between BA and SCL for instance. But there could be one between Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro or between Boston and NY or DC....
However even in Europe, some regions are not efficiently connected with the high speed train network : I live on the French Riviera (not exactly the most remote region in Europe) and we will not see a high speed line here before 2025 or 2030 at the earliest... Except if the italian railways build their own line from Turin or Milan to Nice, which is possible and may well happen before the french railways complete their own project from Nice to Marseilles.... If AZ follows AF example, it could leave them some room for future growth, as discussed in another thread here : Alitalia On Verge Of Bankruptcy - Again (by LAXintl Dec 23 2012 in Civil Aviation)
EGPH From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19455 times:
I was about to say before aloges beat me to it that LH are very friendly with the Deutsche Bahn ICE service. My partner was recently travelling in Germany on business and needed to visit several cities around Germany within the space of a week so she booked on a few LH flights to speed up the process and actually spent more time on the ICE than on LH flights. She certainly did not complain as the timings were very similar and there was no hassle of airport security every day.
Aquila3 From Italy, joined Nov 2010, 208 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 18912 times:
Well I took ICE once 4 years ago, from Nurnberg to Vienna, and although the first class seating was decent (with a small table, power plug, and for some part WIFI) the speed was not so high like the ticket price. I took something like 6 1/2 hours to complete the direct trip. I do not have a railway map at hand, but I guess that going along the Donau river, should not be more than 6-700 Km, rough estimate 100 Km/h, or 50 kt if you like.
Nothing to do with the TGV...
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21465 posts, RR: 24 Reply 10, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 18877 times:
AF has been doing this for years. They dropped all air service CDG-BRU a few years ago. All AF service is now on high speed trains bearing AF flight numbers and booked like any other flight. The advantage is that you wind up in the Brussels city center, not at the airport.
aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 18163 times:
Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 9): Nothing to do with the TGV...
That's because you weren't on a high-speed line. Only a high-speed train on a high-speed line will be able to run at high speed - and because Germany is a polycentric country with a very strong car industry lobby (and a few other things), our high-speed rail infrastructure is nowhere near as developed as it should be. If, however, you take an ICE train from Stuttgart to Cologne, you will probably not be longing for the TGV.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
PI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 599 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16377 times:
As an American unaccustomed to the availability and ease of rail travel as in Europe, I will opt for air and rail connections in a heartbeat. One of my favorite routes is the use of German Rail using coded LH flight segments for rail connections via FRA to STR. Easy connection to the ICE at Frankfurt Airport rail station and in less than 90 minutes, traveling in a First Class seat or shared compartment, with food and beverage included as if served on a LH flight, you arrive in central Stuttgart. Repeat for return trip via FRA back home.
I also rode the TGV Paris-Brussels as a coded AF flight and again high standards of service and travel performance in comparison to a short haul flight. Why fly London-Paris when you can opt for the Eurostar to continue your trip after a stopover?
And you can't complain about the scenery. If you have an option for an air and rail combination don't pass it up. A very pleasant travel experience.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21229 posts, RR: 19 Reply 14, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15926 times:
Quoting Mcoov (Reply 13): I'm convinced that this is what should be done with Amtrak in the NorthEast Corridor.
What would it accomplish? It's not like ILG or HVN has much service, and most other airports have plenty of service, so the need to connect from another city is minimal. PVD is the one exception.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
francoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3195 posts, RR: 10 Reply 15, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14016 times:
It's now just a partnership with SNCF (many airlines have codeshares with SNCF already, btw), but at one time, AF was actually considering buying high speed trains and operating them under its livery. There was talk of them buying a few AGV's. They would have looked good in AF livery, though I can't imagine how dirty they would have looked after a while, especially given AF's track record in the matter...
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
all the advantages of intermodal transportation: more options, more flexibility, more frequencies and so on
However, most airports in the BosWash area would first have to be connected to the rail corridor. AFAIK, only EWR and BWI have train stations, pretty basic ones. In all honesty, I expect that the Anglo-American aversion to investments into infrastructure will make sure that the status quo won't improve anytime soon.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
polarexpress From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13056 times:
Just took ZFV-EWR-SAN-EWR-ZFV for the first time (ZFV being Philadelphia's 30th St Station). FWIW, I thought that it was a more civilized way of traveling between Philly and Newark rather than boarding a delay-prone, puddle-jumping prop. Only thing that was irritating was that the mobile app didn't recognize the train segment and thus couldn't display the QR code for the air segment on my phone - had to go to the desk for a paper ticket.
It seems that they've got a few codeshares with Amtrak for the following destinations, from south to north:
ZWI (Wilmington, DE)
ZFV (Philadelphia, PA)
ZTF (Stamford, CT)
ZVE (New Haven, CT)
lastrow From Germany, joined Dec 2010, 23 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13058 times:
Quoting aloges (Reply 11): That's because you weren't on a high-speed line. Only a high-speed train on a high-speed line will be able to run at high speed - and because Germany is a polycentric country with a very strong car industry lobby (and a few other things), our high-speed rail infrastructure is nowhere near as developed as it should be. If, however, you take an ICE train from Stuttgart to Cologne, you will probably not be longing for the TGV.
I do not think the main "problem" is the car lobby, but few other things ... mainly that Germany is a federation of countries (and sometimes we do not have speed limits on German autobahn).
We have seen that with high speed train connection between FRA and CGN where a stop at the 30.000 people "city" Montabaur is implemented, because the train passes the territory. (note that not every train stops in Montabaur though) There was a SPIEGEL article about it, a quick search with google yields now the following source: http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/...chwindigkeitsstrecken/3559702.html (in German, sorry). Travel from Nuremberg to Hamburg is similar and despite the majority of track segments are high-speed (230,250 km/h), there are plenty of stops.
I like the idea of taking the train to get to a suitable airport. However, it should be an integrated offer by the airlines. This year, I needed to travel from MUC to the US on very short term. There we no (reasonable priced) seats free from my home MUC, but from FRA. I took the ICE from MUC to FRA then. Unfortunately on this line, a preceding train had problems, blocking the line. I arrived 2h late in FRA and it was indeed an unpleasant experience arriving at the Airport shortly before the check in was about to close. Luckily, the flight was 45 minutes late as well. But if I would have missed the flight, because the train service was late, no one would help me. This is a clear reason for me to check in to flight or train at my home (airport) what I did not see until then.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21229 posts, RR: 19 Reply 22, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10233 times:
Quoting aloges (Reply 16): all the advantages of intermodal transportation: more options, more flexibility, more frequencies and so on
Can you identify some cities that have so few options and flexibility to, for instance, Washington that a HSR link to PHL or JFK would be useful?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2648 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9870 times:
EWR is probably best positioned in the US for the train to rail connections as it is right on the NE corridor, which is the only real high speed rail in the US (as close as we get)
Sadly, it is linked via a rink a dink monorail which is slow, small and crowded
SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 459 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9859 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10): AF has been doing this for years. They dropped all air service CDG-BRU a few years ago. All AF service is now on high speed trains bearing AF flight numbers and booked like any other flight. The advantage is that you wind up in the Brussels city center, not at the airport.
I remember reading that AFKL also plans to drop KL's AMS-BRU soon.
As much as Belgian government and SN blame FR for their situation, having most of your country at 1-1h15' from Charles de Gaulle and Schiphol certainly will not help for long-haul competition.
[Edited 2012-12-26 19:45:38]
25 DariusBieber: I'm new to the whole Rail service in America, they don't have TSA Officers and Security Checkpoints at the Rail Stations, do they? That way you can e
26 blueflyer: The only downside that I can see to using trains as an alternative is that passengers need to handle their own luggage until they reach an actual airp
27 spacecadet: I agree with those who say I can't see what this could accomplish. Where would you be flying into and then connecting to via rail that you couldn't j
28 3rdGen: Middle Eastern carriers are also code sharing with European Rail services. GF, EY have deals with SNCF in France QR, EK, EY have deals with Deutsche B
29 PanHAM: Codeshares with rail systems make a lot of sense. The pro-rating on conncting fares is likely much less than they would have to pay to LH or AF, it en
30 SHUPirate1: LGA actually isn't all that far from the Northeast Corridor rail line. The distance between the MAT and St. Michael's Cemetary, which is literally ri
31 aloges: every city that doesn't have service to DCA The trek from IAD to the district is a cruel joke at best and the Silver Line extension is over half a de
33 Azure: Not reliable : SNCF codeshares with many more airlines than quoted in this article (32 in total in July 2012).
34 lastrow: I understand that for people living close to these stations it is actually a real benefit having the new stops. However, from a planning point of vie
35 aloges: off topic, but I'd like to answer this anyway: The Westbahnhof is still the major station in Vienna; not very central, but well-connected. Their main
36 PanHAM: Not at all, these stations have through tracks, the stops are made using dedicated station tracks. Wien Westbf. is the station usually served from Ge
37 Ferroviarius: Today, I read in a relevant newspaper - FAZ - about the opening of the close to 2400km high speed train line from Bejing to Guangzhou. The trains cove
38 Azure: Then these so called US-patriots should keep away from the Acela which was built by Bombardier and Alstom. Alstom is French...
39 theginge: You think Germany has high speed rail that is not that developed.... Try coming to the UK...
40 Gonzalo: Add to that the dozens of NIMBY associations you will have every few hundred miles on the planned route to cross the country, and you will end with a
41 Cubsrule: The other problem is topography. PEK-CAN is pretty flat, as it's basically along the coast. LAX-NYC is not.
42 Azure: The NIMBY associations are also very active in Europe, and that did not prevent the different countries from building high speed lines.... The genera
43 Cubsrule: Cost, and folks' appetite for causing additional environmental damage.
44 polarexpress: Actually, the Beijing-Guangzhou line is routed through Wuhan in the center of the country. While Beijing-Wuhan is flat, the areas south of the Yangtz
45 PanHAM: absoluteloy senseless , the costs would be exorbitant and could never be recovered with the revenue generated. Likely the revenue would not even cove
46 Cubsrule: I don't know why people think that all overland flying could be or should be replaced with rail.
47 FlyingHollander: I would like to see what this timeframe is based on. I believe the Chinese built there HSR in 8 years. Why would it have to take the US 50 years? Not
48 Cubsrule: While we might debate the 500 miles number some, I'd hope that we can agree that LAX-NYC is a lot more than 500 miles.
49 FlyingHollander: Of course. A route like that doesn't make sense. (All I wanted to say was that a 50 year construction period is an exageration.) CHI-NYC would be amb
50 Lofty: Eurostar can run trains into LHR. I was part of a project that looked at trains from LHR to Paris and BRU to replace flights.
51 Gonzalo: Because you don't have NIMBY's in China. China is doing exceptional things in many fields, but is not a democracy for sure, and if you don't want a H
52 FlyingHollander: I understand that things get doen easier in China and I dont expect the US to be able to build something like that in the same timeframe, but isn't 2
53 Azure: I believe it is not so much a question of distance but rather of duration : how long will it take me to go from A to B by train vs by plane ? But I d
54 Cubsrule: That's largely dependent on how the electricity for the train is generated, isn't it?
55 Gonzalo: Probably yes, it's all wild speculation. If you have a strong government applying its policies no matter what the public opinion says, and a strong P
56 PanHAM: Gonzalo was quicker. One could also say that the US and Europe is ruled by the law wheras most other countries are ruled by decret and what the Mufti
57 Azure: Not largely. In all likely cases, planes are less ecological than trains. Unfortunately if I may add, as I really prefer to travel by plane
58 Cubsrule: Even at the (not very clean) coal mix that we have in a lot of the eastern United States?
59 Gonzalo: Are you sure ?? I don't have idea really, but a brand new 777F probably leaves a smaller carbon footprint to move a given weight of freight from LAX
60 airmagnac: Not quite that simple. If you take into account only the carbon emitted by producing the kinetic energy (IOW by moving the vehicle), a train is certa
61 Azure: There is also a fair amount of nuclear power plants in the US... I have used a carbon footprint calculator to compare a plane trip vs a train trip in
62 EWRandMDW: Metra is the commuter rail system in Chicago. EWR has NJ Transit. About 6 weeks ago, maybe 3 weeks post-Hurricane Sandy, I flew into EWR and took NJT
63 Cubsrule: Partially because the US is so big, the power generation mix in the US varies a lot from place to place. For instance, there's much more "traditional
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