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High Speed Train Impact On CAN-PEK Route?  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4349 times:

I just heard in the news that the high speed train between Guangzhou and Beijing is ready to start operations.
Will the Chinese carriers fight against this new competitor with lower fares ?
Or are the fares structure so controlled by the government that they can't do anything "promotional" like we do in "western countries" ?

And what kind of impact could have this new HST in the air travel ?

Rgds.
G.

[Edited 2012-12-26 10:08:22]


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

No the one that's opening today is the Beijing-Guangzhou(extended to Shenzhen as well) line. So no, CAN-PVG will not be affected. HST typically doesn't run discounts.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11367 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

It still is an eight hour ride. With air travel you can do business in Guangzhou and return home to Shanghai on the same day.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

At 2,300 kms in length, it's the longest high-speed line in the world:

http://www.afp.com/en/news/topstorie...-bullet-train-service-begins-china


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 2):
With air travel you can do business in Guangzhou and return home to Shanghai on the same day.

That's true if the schedule of your business works, but an overnight train provides some flexibility that flying doesn't. If your meeting goes until, say, 2100, taking a 2300 train that gets in at 0700 might be more appealing than a 2300 flight that gets in at 0030.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 2):With air travel you can do business in Guangzhou and return home to Shanghai on the same day.
That's true if the schedule of your business works, but an overnight train provides some flexibility that flying doesn't. If your meeting goes until, say, 2100, taking a 2300 train that gets in at 0700 might be more appealing than a 2300 flight that gets in at 0030.

Guys first of all, the new high speed line is NOT for Shanghai-Guangzhou but Beijing-Guangzhou.

Second of all, ALL high speed lines are closed during the night (6 hr window so I have heard) for maintenance so the overnight trains on the high speed lines are not planned at the moment. Also you can't over night from Beijing to Guangzhou on the regular line as the trains there can't reach 2300KM in 8 hours.


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Quoting B2443 (Reply 1):
No the one that's opening today is the Beijing-Guangzhou

Yep, you're right, I don't know how I get the cities mixed up...
Thanks ( I changed the names after your post )

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4096 times:

CAN-PEK is not expected to be affected as not many passengers are expected to go end-to-end from Beijing to Guangzhou. In fact there are only 3 such trains per day. Most of the trains will start at either end but terminate somewhere in between, such as Beijing-Wuhan, Beijing-Zhengzhou, Guangzhou-Zhengzhou, Guangzhou-Wuhan. As a result, flights on these routes would be affected. CZ is already matching the price on PEK-WUH but is expected to reduce flights. PEK-CAN prices have held up so far.

[Edited 2012-12-26 10:29:54]

User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4062 times:

Basically, the HST can't beat the PEK-CAN route. The price is about the same and it takes much longer than an air travel. But the HST will greatly influence some of the small cities' airport which are not very far away from Beijing or Guangzhou.

The "Death Zone" for HST is about 800km according to the experience in China. With a speed of 300km, 800km is only a 3 hours ride by train and it has a great advantage over air traffic. For some city pairs like WUH-PEK, CGO-PEK which is within the "Death Zone" of HST, the opening of the new line sentences their death.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

Quoting B2443 (Reply 5):
Second of all, ALL high speed lines are closed during the night (6 hr window so I have heard) for maintenance so the overnight trains on the high speed lines are not planned at the moment. Also you can't over night from Beijing to Guangzhou on the regular line as the trains there can't reach 2300KM in 8 hours.

That seems silly. Overnight is one of the times that the range of effectiveness - what justinlee calls the "Death Zone" - for HSR can expand since sleeping time is wasted time that may as well be spent in transit.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8491 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3929 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
. Overnight is one of the times that the range of effectiveness - what justinlee calls the "Death Zone" - for HSR can expand since sleeping time is wasted time that may as well be spent in transit.

The public is very sensitive about the HSR being given proper maintenance. I agree with you that the window will likely shrink over time. But if there is no window, the people do not believe their safety is paramount over performance. China's public does not trust the government's safety culture. I think it's fascinating because they are midway to creating the type of safety culture we have in the West. In time, they will sort it out.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2178 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3629 times:
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Quoting B2443 (Reply 5):
Second of all, ALL high speed lines are closed during the night (6 hr window so I have heard) for maintenance so the overnight trains on the high speed lines are not planned at the moment

China might eventually be the first to introduce high-speed rail night trains. I think there are no such services in Europe as distances are not long enough.

I have taken the night train from Copenhagen to Basel, but that only goes at 200 km/h at most, I think.

High-speed night trains could be the next big thing, me thinks. I love night trains, always sleep so well from the gentle rocking motion.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1141 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 11):
China might eventually be the first to introduce high-speed rail night trains. I think there are no such services in Europe as distances are not long enough.

Deutsche Bahn runs trains that leave MUC Hauptbahnhof around 2am and arrive in CGN around 7am. I have been on that train in both directions.


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