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Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo  
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 998 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6298 times:
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/southw...nces-between-denver-173400713.html


AirTran will operate the route daily starting March 2013

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6247 times:

So AirTran continues to do what Southwest cannot? I know financially it probably wasn't possible, but it makes me wonder how this "merger" would have gone if AirTran had done the buying.

User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6151 times:
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I don't understand why Southwest can't do Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, San Juan PR etc with their own metal? They can turn around those 737s very quickly at all these airports, even with customs/immigration standing on the way... Instead they choose to fly into PHL, EWR, LGA, airports plagued by delays.

User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6114 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
I don't understand why Southwest can't do Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, San Juan PR etc with their own metal?


Southwest will be starting San Juan PR with their own metal in April, as for the others it is because the current reservation system can't handle international transactions. There will be a new reservation system up and running in 2013. When that happens you will see codesharing with AirTran and Southwest will be starting to take over the international flying.


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5964 times:

More WN expansion here in DEN. Wow. Come on United! Southwest is now going to take a sector you aren't even in! But seriously, some days there haven't even been DEN-CUN flights on UA. Out of 440 daily UA/UX flights last summer, somewhere around 5 of them were widebodies. No intercontinental flights (though DEN-NRT will start soon.) I love seeing any DEN expansion, especially International (we need a lot of that!), but UA seems to be falling behind. Or rather was 5 years ago and now really needs to get back in. Down to 40% of the market. With the 787 they got a huge Denver Post feature mentioning the new NRT route. Great free publicity, but UA needs to do more or WN will be the leading carrier for all markets.

User currently offlineUNITED91 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
AirTran will operate the route daily starting March 2013

Good news for Southwest.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 4):
I love seeing any DEN expansion, especially International (we need a lot of that!), but UA seems to be falling behind.

As much as I'd like to see more international expansion in DEN, I don't see UA adding very much.. I could see a European flight added at some point, but other than that, I wouldn't expect much from UA in that regard.


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

Quoting UNITED91 (Reply 5):
I could see a European flight added at some point

Yeah...Though I'm not sure what. Does anyone know what the load factors were on the London Flight UA operated a couple years back? I could also see Paris or Madrid, but both are more heavily Skyteam or Oneworld, more so than LON. I could see UA upping the Caribbean and Mexico from DEN. Here in Colorado we love that area. Too much.

I wouldn't be surprised to see UA flying NRT, LHR, and CDG (or some other European city) from Denver, and adding some Leisure destinations. I would be surprised to see more than 2 EU cities and major South American or Asian Expansion. Though next thing you know, EK could be here  .


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5111 times:
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Cabo is coming of age, I noticed US Airways upgraded PHX-SJD to 757

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25737 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5043 times:

This is the route awarded earlier in the month:
DOT Awards AirTran DEN-SJD, Strips Republic (by LAXintl Dec 4 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePHXMKEflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

Quoting toltommy (Reply 1):
So AirTran continues to do what Southwest cannot?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this?

Southwest has been utilizing its wholly owned subsidiary AirTran in order to expand into international markets, namely Mexico, from mid-to-large size WN stations (DEN,SAT,AUS,SNA) with AirTran metal as Southwest reservations system can not yet handle international itineraries. These moves are simply paving the way for WN int'l expansion once FL is fully integrated in to WN.


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 988 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 4):
With the 787 they got a huge Denver Post feature mentioning the new NRT route. Great free publicity, but UA needs to do more or WN will be the leading carrier for all markets.

WN got lots of attention on the web yesterday about this new route...which I found odd. Since when does a single new route out of a mid-size city merit national attention?


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4605 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3808 times:

Quoting toltommy (Reply 1):
So AirTran continues to do what Southwest cannot? I know financially it probably wasn't possible, but it makes me wonder how this "merger" would have gone if AirTran had done the buying.
Quoting 737tanker (Reply 3):
Southwest will be starting San Juan PR with their own metal in April, as for the others it is because the current reservation system can't handle international transactions.

Things will start to become clearer very soon with all of this. 2013 is going to be an exciting year for WN.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 10):
WN got lots of attention on the web yesterday about this new route...which I found odd. Since when does a single new route out of a mid-size city merit national attention?
WN media machine is definitely still a well oiled machine.

[Edited 2012-12-27 13:59:44]

User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 10):
WN got lots of attention on the web yesterday about this new route...which I found odd. Since when does a single new route out of a mid-size city merit national attention?

Since WN media wanted it to. As I said, we love our Mexico and Caribbean.


User currently offlineSWALoveField From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3095 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 11):
Things will start to become clearer very soon with all of this. 2013 is going to be an exciting year for WN.


And not to mention 2014 will be equally exciting for WN as the Wright Amendment goes away and Love Field's complete renovation is to be completed.

Robb
Dallas, TX


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2066 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3048 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be surprised to see UA flying NRT, LHR, and CDG (or some other European city) from Denver, and adding some Leisure destinations. I would be surprised to see more than 2 EU cities and major South American or Asian Expansion. Though next thing you know, EK could be here .

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see EK here, BUT not very soon.

BA and LH are always full to DEN. But about yields, who knows. Even in the olden days CO was always full to LGW nonstop from DEN. Traffic is not the issue.


User currently offlineyvphx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 7):

appears seasonal. I searched this route into January, and only a bunch of A320 and A319. What a bummer!

Hope to see bigger metal on the Mexico routes from Phoenix!


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 14):
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see EK here, BUT not very soon.

BA and LH are always full to DEN

True. In the future, as 77W routes are upgraded to A380s and down the chain, I could see maybe an A350-900 on the route. In a while though. I wonder if UA would be more inclined to start up more Long Haul routes if the Landing Fees were lower. Costs a lot to land a 772 here.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2764 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 14):
BA and LH are always full to DEN. But about yields, who knows.

While domestically, DEN for quite a while has been known to be low yielding, although not always the lowest yielding even with WWIII being waged on its turf here, DEN has the lowest domestic to international service ratio by far among the major airports of the world, something like 93% or so.

As for international routes, since there aren't that many, I've read here from fellow a.netters that these, and myself seen some anecdotal online evidence that DEN is quite high in international yields - especially long haul with only BA and LH service, with these nonstops costing several hundred dollars higher over connects.

Maybe FI has affected this a bit this last year, and they are now 4X weekly throughout the year, and will increase to 6X next summer.

And with the UA 787 daily to NRT, this will now at least start not to give corporations in the area an excuse to move offices out of the area due to lack of long haul international air service.

The recently released Brooking Institute report about U.S. international air service really answered a lot of questions and put things into prospective.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

This shows that DEN has more O&D into Seoul than it does Tokyo (58 vs.54 pax per day), could probably support at least 4X weekly to CDG, and with regard to a recent thread here about a debate whether NZ should fly nonstop from Auckland to either Denver or Houston, well...... Denver has 15 pax O&D per day between the two, and Houston has only 6 pax O&D per day here...... I think that NZ would be wise to choose DEN when it decides to expand, eh?

 


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6161 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 4):
outhwest is now going to take a sector you aren't even in!

Think UA is really concerned over a low yield Mexico route?

Look at the SFO hub, AS operated daily PVR/SJD and even MZT/CUN/ZIH, while UA was still operating 3 and 4 weekly to SJD/PVR only for years. The low yield market is not worth the fight.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

I don't think they're concerned. But they should at least try to compete on some leisure routes. WN is hurting yields even more than DEN fees normally do on Midwest and on over to the west coast e specially. UA could actually try to compete. EU routes shouldn't be too hard. BA, LH, and FI all serve one destination each. However, I love to see International expansion at DEN. What is the domestic to international ratio at other UA hubs, especially IAH and ORD?

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6161 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

United seems to be happy with DEN as is, in my opinion. Other then the NRT service, there doesn't seem to be a flurry of new routes being expanded out of DEN.


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

We are in the middle of world war airline edition. WN, AA, UA, and F9 to LAX, plus some of those to other LA area Airports. All of those plus NK to Chicago and Dallas. WN and FL, UA, DL, F9 to ATL. The only monopoly routes are a few Great Lakes, some UX, a handful of UA/WN mainline, and international. So to keep the DEN O&D up, monopoly sectors or trying to kill off the competition are the options. F9 might die, AA/US might merge, but WN and DL will always be here. And I'm not betting on F9 dying, and AA/US would be a large competitor. The hubs carriers are all fighting, and meanwhile the other legacies are getting passengers and B6 is growing. More and more domestic pax are taking WN, so UA should do something.
But for now.........Keep fighting!! I love the selection and routes and capacity and frequency. This new WN route will be well received.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7320 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

Quoting toltommy (Reply 1):
So AirTran continues to do what Southwest cannot? I know financially it probably wasn't possible, but it makes me wonder how this "merger" would have gone if AirTran had done the buying.

Well, AirTran couldn't have bought WN, but there is truth that WN management is so wedded to their systems, contracts, poorly performing stations, and fleet that they are basically destroying FL and using them as a stooge to do things they should be embarrassed they cannot do themselves.


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

Poorly performing stations? I do agree with you, however, that they have some hiccups in the system that should've been solved 5 yeas ago. Or easily worked around in the first place.

User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4605 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 22):
Well, AirTran couldn't have bought WN, but there is truth that WN management is so wedded to their systems, contracts, poorly performing stations, and fleet that they are basically destroying FL and using them as a stooge to do things they should be embarrassed they cannot do themselves.

It'll be so nice when we'll be away for this period where people keep posting comments like this. Of course then they'll need to find something else to whine about, which I'm sure won't be that difficult.


25 Post contains images point2point : Since the announcement of the merger between UA and CO in May of 2010, these are the new nonstop destinations additions and cancellations the I’ve
26 UA787DEN : Got to agree about the NRT route. This isn't really a flurry of expansion, and it isn't really bad, but it doesn't look great compared to the WN expan
27 UNITED91 : Thanks for the information, interesting to see Denver having a higher O&D to Aukland than Houston. It'd be quite impressive if Denver could land
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