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AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt  
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16655 times:

I did not see anything about this yet, so if this is a dupe I'm sorry.

The morning news has been abuzz about an AA pilot captured on audio apologizing for a 5 hour delay that included a not so subtitle slam on management.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#...ican-airlines-pilot-apologizes.cnn

[Edited 2012-12-27 07:46:59]

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3029 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16656 times:

that link show a story about a bus in a sinkhole.

EDIT: better link here: http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#...ican-airlines-pilot-apologizes.cnn

Not sure what the big deal is. They took a 5 hour delay at the gate with the door open because of a significant winter storm.

[Edited 2012-12-27 07:15:36]

User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16330 times:

Thank you for the edit Catiii   Those roving video links can be tricky lol. Noted and corrected  

User currently offlineaaexecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 635 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16161 times:

As always (it seems), the only one with an egg on their face is an AA pilot. He knows as well as any pilot what the procedure is in these kinds of circumstances...airplanes wait at the gate with the door open so as not to start the clock on the fines, and the carrier allows folks to get off the plane but asks them to stay close so they can eave when they get the green light.

But of course the pilot has to make a political statement completely detached from the reality of the snowstorm around him. And of course none of the other US airlines had delays yesterday or the day before....oh wait...


User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16083 times:

Interesting that I never heard these kind of apologies in September when the pilots delayed or caused flight cancellations over their contract woes.

User currently offlineaaexecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 635 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15913 times:

Quoting miaami (Reply 4):
Interesting that I never heard these kind of apologies in September when the pilots delayed or caused flight cancellations over their contract woes.

Exactly. Quite the opposite. On the many delayed flights I was on during that time, pilots would often not get on the PA at all to explain the nature of the delay...I don't say this lightly, but I hope they will one day get taught a tough and expensive lesson.


User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15775 times:

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 5):
Exactly. Quite the opposite. On the many delayed flights I was on during that time, pilots would often not get on the PA at all to explain the nature of the delay...I don't say this lightly, but I hope they will one day get taught a tough and expensive lesson.

You may have already gotten your wish. For all the chest thumping that the pilots did back in Aug when they voted down the companies LBFO (last best final offer). They overwhelmingly voted for it earlier this month. They basically voted for the same thing they voted down in Aug with items moved around a bit but all for the same total value as the original LBFO. Management got what they wanted from the pilot group.

[Edited 2012-12-27 08:52:53]

User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15546 times:

Quoting miaami (Reply 4):
Interesting that I never heard these kind of apologies in September when the pilots delayed or caused flight cancellations over their contract woes.
Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 5):
Exactly. Quite the opposite. On the many delayed flights I was on during that time, pilots would often not get on the PA at all to explain the nature of the delay...I don't say this lightly, but I hope they will one day get taught a tough and expensive lesson.

I get what you both are saying, but I haven't read 1 account or complaint from those instances that resulted in a 5-hour delay, during a major holiday rush. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10377 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15506 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 7):
Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.

Not all the south was rain......we had snow in Arkansas and I believe north Texas had snow, sleat and rain, also.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15387 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
Not all the south was rain......we had snow in Arkansas and I believe north Texas had snow, sleat and rain, also.


Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs? Seems like the pilot was on to something when he said the people above him making the decisions don't know what they're doing.


User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 15244 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs? Seems like the pilot was on to something when he said the people above him making the decisions don't know what they're doing.

Maybe because like some his colleagues at AA and other carriers they don't feel the need to air their bitterness over the PA and are a little more professional.


User currently offlineAviRaider From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14775 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 7):

Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.

Yea we got snow here in Dallas for most of Christmas Day. I think we got at the most an inch or two of snow and an inch of rain.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14774 times:
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Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs?

No snow and the worst weather didnt hit until late at night


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14536 times:

I dont think it was political

As a pilot it gets frustrating.

He should have just deplaned and let them sit in the airport


User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14540 times:

Quoting miaami (Reply 10):
Maybe because like some his colleagues at AA and other carriers they don't feel the need to air their bitterness over the PA and are a little more professional.

I fail to see how keeping the passengers informed is unprofessional? Apparently neither did AA because they've already commented that no actions would be taken against him - http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/27/travel...irline-delays/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Also, I didn't think the pilot was bitter as much as he was frustrated. He defused the passengers frustration by keeping them up-to-date which is something I wish ALL Pilots, Gate Agents, Flight Attendants would do.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10377 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13985 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs? Seems like the pilot was on to something when he said the people above him making the decisions don't know what they're doing.

I don't believe that the cold air mass that caused the massive snow storms, blizzard conditions, tornadoes, etc. extended that far east.....most was in north Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas....even some in northern Louisiana. The storm system extended east, but not the cold air. Also, it didn't start snowing here until afternoon, so it would have been much later for them to get storms in the east and southeast.......you'd think that a pilot, whose job it is to keep tabs on the weather, especially when they get their flight plan and clearance, would be aware of any weather around him or enroute.

Reminds me of what a colleague at ORD once told me about a customer driving 5 hours in a normal 1 hour trip, thru blizzard conditions and then, couldn't figure out why the airport was closed when he got there.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineJHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13868 times:

Quoting miaami (Reply 10):
Maybe because like some his colleagues at AA and other carriers they don't feel the need to air their bitterness over the PA and are a little more professional.

PIlots are people just like the rest of us and unfortunately don't always use the wisest judgement in situations such as this one. I feel for the guy, it wasn't like he was off in the terminal somewhere while his passengers just waited on the plane, he was right there with them. Who knows how long he had been on duty already, how much duty time he still had left, family issues he may have been having, etc, etc. Did he make the best decision to blame management over the pa? No, but everybody makes mistakes.



RUSH
User currently offlinerduddji From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1468 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13801 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs?

The obvious answer is that there was no snow/sleet/ice at those hubs. Some wind and rain, but nothing like what DFW experienced.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1522 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13483 times:

Just listened to it. I didn't hear anything that I would say was unacceptable, or truthful for that matter. Any pilot who has been on the job for more than a year has watched the operation fall apart due to lack of planning. There will always be times when things come apart at the seams that couldn't be prevented, but more often than not there are plenty of warning signs (read: WEATHER REPORT) that all will not be well.

On the same token, I feel for those in ops tasked with making those decisions on how to preserve ops based on forecasts. It can be a lose - lose situation for them as well when flights get canceled in advance of a storm and nothing happens.


User currently offlineaaexecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 635 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13297 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 7):
Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.

DFW got plenty of snow..

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
Not all the south was rain......we had snow in Arkansas and I believe north Texas had snow, sleat and rain, also.

Correct.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs? Seems like the pilot was on to something when he said the people above him making the decisions don't know what they're doing.

See below. You continue to assert non-facts in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
I don't believe that the cold air mass that caused the massive snow storms, blizzard conditions, tornadoes, etc. extended that far east.....most was in north Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas....even some in northern Louisiana. The storm system extended east, but not the cold air. Also, it didn't start snowing here until afternoon, so it would have been much later for them to get storms in the east and southeast.......you'd think that a pilot, whose job it is to keep tabs on the weather, especially when they get their flight plan and clearance, would be aware of any weather around him or enroute.

Exactly.


User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5505 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12021 times:

Yawn.

He was frustrated, had no clever explanations, just shared with the passengers. Not the slickest maneuver, but they were, on that day, in the same boat (or plane).

Nothing to punish, just bad weather.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11630 times:

This pilot lacked the professionalism his occupation says it has. He, apparently is one of those selfish and unprofessionals that spoil it for the truly professional pilots.

He knows very well what his position is in the deicing que, and approximately how long a delay there will be. He also knows what deicing equipment and how many qualified deice crews has at that airport. He should have a working idea of the enviornmental concerns of that airport, and the restrictions of the deicing operations. He was but one airplane at one airline at that airport, and there are other airplanes and airlines involved, not just his little world. The airport flow rate plays a very big part here. At DFW, during a snow emergency, we could be down to just 2 operational runways (17R/35L and 18L/36R) until airport snow removal crews can get two more runways plowed, deiced, and open after an inspection by Airfield Operations. Deicing the airplane itself can take anywhere from about 15 minutes to 45 minutes, depending on the size of the airplane.

Pilots and FAs don't get paid while sitting at the gate, their pay starts once the door is closed and the airplane pushed back, or engines started and powered back. I believe this is this guy's problem. Yes, sitting there time does go against his crew duty day hours, and he must assure he has enough hours remaining to complete the flight once he does take-off.

Someone above said the pax were given the oppertunity to get off, but were also told they may leave any minute. This info could only come from this very same pilot making the announcement over the PA. He may ask a FA to make the announcement, but he is the one to get the info from the AA tower.

This pilot made a very stupid announcement, and should be disiplined for it.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5214 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10580 times:

Quoting miaami (Reply 4):
Interesting that I never heard these kind of apologies in September when the pilots delayed or caused flight cancellations over their contract woes.

I was on a couple of AA flights. One arrived early. The other was 90 minutes late due to severe thunderstorms in Chicago. In both cases, there wasn't a pilot to be seen outside the cockpit, thanking passengers for flying AA. I can't recall the last time a pilot didn't thank me for flying.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 7):
Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.

Could de-icing have been limited to flights that were flying into known icing conditions? If a flight was leaving DFW for MEX, LAX, or MIA, it may not have need de-icing. But if it was flying north or east, flying conditions may have dictated de-icing.


User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10478 times:

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 19):
See below. You continue to assert non-facts in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Um, I didn't "continue" to do anything. I posted one comment which was quickly corrected by about 10 others before you. Yet you felt the need to assert your knowledge that you most likely gathered FROM those posters, only to try and turn it around and look like the wise guy. Pretty lame, try being a little more original.


User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10252 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 22):

Could de-icing have been limited to flights that were flying into known icing conditions?

No, that's not how it works. Aircraft are de-iced (and sometimes anti-iced) to allow takeoff. After that point they use their anti-ice sysems to remain clean.



When in doubt, one B pump off
25 Jpax : Unless you've heard more of an announcement than there was in the CNN video, I have to call your post one of the most ill informed and offensive post
26 skycub : On American? I am not the most frequent flyer on AA, but I fly them roughly one roundtrip a month and have for the past few years and I cannot recall
27 strfyr51 : what the overall situation was was really none of that pilot's concern. the deicing equipment was either being otherwise used or was out of commission
28 freeze3192 : +1 Thank you. Unfortunately, the A.net crowd is very anti-pilots (except for the pilot members) and very anti-union (although it has gotten a little
29 Jpax : Of course it is his concern. How would it not be?
30 bahadir : Says the "Airfield Operations Officer at DFW Airport (RETIRED)' are you going to take the blame for the incompetant operations in DFW ? No .. Are you
31 Jpax : Glad to see there is still some sanity in this website. It's very aggravating reading all these posts from folks who have only CNN-based aviation kno
32 bobloblaw : There was icing at DFW. Also there would be icing aloft.
33 jfklganyc : How about sitting at the gate for 5 hours? You like that? You like sitting anywhere with an indefinite hold? With no answers? With no help? You like
34 N62NA : Honestly, I didn't find anything wrong with the pilot's announcement. As a passenger, I would have very much appreciated his announcement had I been
35 KC135TopBoom : We had snow and ice in the DFW Metroplex, as well First, neither of you know what you are talking about. I don't 'hate' pilots, I've been one for dec
36 KC135TopBoom : Oh, don't give me that crap. That pilot had at least two VHF radios, one tuned to the AA Ramp Tower. He would have been talking to then about what wa
37 mcoatc : Surely, this is a joke right? Except he never mentioned management, unless I listened to a different clip. He said "people over our heads" which coul
38 aluminumtubing : I have been in the left seat on many an American Airlines delay. He handled it very unprofessionally, and I find it embarrassing. I certainly understa
39 Mir : Most likely, the person who decided to keep the passengers on the plane for five hours (which is either ops or dispatch). That really shouldn't happe
40 JHCRJ700 : You both said it way better than I could have said it! I couldn't agree more with both of you. IMO this pilot didn't do anything wrong and if Anythin
41 kann123air : Quite a bit of snow! Most I've seen in Fort Smith for as long as I've lived here.
42 irshava : Although it is understandable that he was upset - I think he should've kept his comments to himself - who knows what the consequences might be now..
43 Post contains images iFlyLOTs : I'm with this guy except for the whole pilot of an AA plane (maybe one day that'll change )
44 jetblueguy22 : This thread has turned into personal attacks on other members. It will be locked to further posts. Blue
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