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Piedmont 767 Service  
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3166 posts, RR: 9
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 9406 times:

How many 767's did PI operate? What routes were served? What was their first/ business product like?


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12436 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 9268 times:

Six were ordered, five of which remain with US (and one is now operated by Transaero).

They were delivered in 1987-88, then went to US Airways in 1989, with the takeover.

N603P became N245AY
N604P became N246AY
N605P became EI-DBW (Transaero)
N606P became N248AY
N614P became N249AU
N614P became N250AY

The only information I have on routes is that they operated PI's service to LGW, which was of course taken over by US and continues to this day (soon to move to LHR).

As to service, it was definitely a two class operation; I think they had 25 seats in C Class, but I stand to be corrected on that one.


User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 9266 times:

IIRC PI took delivery of 6 767's and US took the remaining 6 after the merger, and the dumbest thing IMO US did not exercise the options on the other 12 762ER's.

The first Route was TPA-CLT-LGW-CLT-TPA. Other than familiarization flights upon introduction of the type.
Other routes operated off the top of my head were CLT-MCO/TPA/LAX/MIA/BWI. I think we operated BWI-LAX for a time.

I think CLT-FRA was announced, but did not start until after US took over. With out checking the Data base, I seem to recall we received 3 in PI colors the other 3 polished AL w/Piedmont decals.

I'm sure someone here with a time table may be able to nail this down, but my memory just isnt that good. The merger with US in the middle of all this just makes it difficult for me to remember.

Just as PI was the lauch customer for the 734, but we never received one in PI colors, just polished AL with crappy decals!!

The First Class service was good. We had China, Glassware and stainless silverware. Hot Towel Service on Intl and West coast flights. The pax seemed to like it, I had only been on one EAL flight in First and it was a late night flight ATL-MSY, so I had nothing to personally compare it to. The EAL flight for me was just a larger seat and free drinks, nothing special.
I really enjoyed the First Class on PI, but then as I said, I have nothing else to compare it to. PI intented their FC to be one of the premier FC products among the legacy carriers, but IIRC the merger quickly scaled that back.

Hope this helps,

Later MD


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3177 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 9233 times:

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 2):
IIRC PI took delivery of 6 767's and US took the remaining 6 after the merger, and the dumbest thing IMO US did not exercise the options on the other 12 762ER's.
PI ordered 6 767s and 6 options. After the merger, US exercised the options for those 6 additional a/c for a total of 12 frames. I'm not sure where you are getting "the options on the other 12 762ER's" (for a total of 24) from?

[Edited 2012-12-29 04:26:17]


FLYi
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8344 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 9160 times:
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Piedmont didn't enjoy the "glow" from their 767 for long since they merged soon after. CLT to London was the route which the 767 allowed Piedmont to launch. Surely Piedmont would have launched more European flights from CLT and BWI.

User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1531 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9085 times:

I flew on one in 1987. They had them on the LAX-BWI-LAX route. I still have the headphones from the flight.

User currently offline802flyguy From United States of America, joined May 2012, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8555 times:

The PI F/C service on 767 was very nice indeed (as it was in 727 days, when PI only had F/C on Calif flights. Even Y class was nothing to sneeze at, with how towels and free (CA, of course) wines.

The original PI seating was 25/185, with F/C in 2-1-2; the F/C seats offered great room and recline (although not lie flat). It was changed to 24 seats in 2-2-2 during the BA wetlease/codeshare days, actually a bit of a downgrade to match BA C class standard.

CLT-LAX flights on the 767 commenced in early summer of '87; BWI-LAX (a new market for PI) followed later. (Early 88?)

Until shortly after the US merger, the 767 audio entertainment had a UAL Ch9 style ATC/pilot channel, although I don't think that was advertised.

Those who been around PI for a while had seen their airline go from a local service carrier with YS-11s and FH-227s hopping across the Mid-South to flying wide body jets across eight time zones, a bit of a source of pride.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5902 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8301 times:
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I had the priviledge of flying PI/US 767-200's between CLT-LAX...then onto OAK. If I remember right, the 767-200's had different, more comfortable coach seats during the merger transition timeframe.

User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8234 times:

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 2):
Just as PI was the lauch customer for the 734, but we never received one in PI colors, just polished AL with crappy decals!!


I thought US was the launch customer, but know thinking about it you're probably correct.....damn I hate it that PI is gone, loved their service top to bottom and the Piedmont Punch was fabulous. I still have one can sitting in my airplane room!



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinen5014k From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8071 times:

I still miss PI very much. My home airport is BWI and while I acknowledge the benefit WN has brought to us I maintain that PI's service and attitude during its peak years were superior to those of just about every other domestic US airline. We had two Presidents Club rooms here, too.

I flew the 767 BWI-LAX-BWI many times and their first class service was quite good. On the flights I took the service was designated First Class, not Business class - I still have some boarding passes somewhere saying so. They had 2-1-2 seating in First, and I tried the single middle seat just once. It looked like it would be nicer than it was - the seats had hard "slabs" on either side of the seats and that made it tough to spread out. After than I found aisle seats somewhere else. For a while after US took them over I'd ask the nicest flight attendant working First Class if he or she was from PI and the answer almost always was "yes." My apologies to you US fans out there but in about 18 months I found US had either ruined or chased away the nicer PI folk. Different corporate cultures. Same thing when they took over PSA, for that matter. I gave up on USAir a couple of years later and switched back to DL, staying with them until they canceled the Flying Colonel program.

By the way, maybe there is no perfect way to do First Class in a 767 - Delta's 2-2-2 seating was uncomfortably cramped, certainly not a satisfactory successor to the 1011 from a passenger comfort point of view.


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8015 times:

I used to non-rev BWI-MCO-BWI on the PI 762's they always put me up front and treated me great. I do remember the
employees at BWI grumbling about the engine selection, which I always thought was strange. PI was in no way stupid
they weighted their options carefully. I really truly miss them. What a great carrier they were.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offline802flyguy From United States of America, joined May 2012, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7716 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):

N603P became N245AY
N604P became N246AY
N605P became EI-DBW (Transaero)
N606P became N248AY
N614P became N249AU
N614P became N250AY


Too lazy to look it up on rzjets, there was an N607P in the original PI order; it had reputation as a "hangar queen". IIRC, it was this ship that suffered a tail strike on landing at LAX not long after the start of PI's 767 service there. It sat in the old AA hangars for a couple of weeks, as PI and Boeing engineers and techs pored over it. In the wake of the JAL123 disaster, the rear pressure bulkhead received a great deal of attention indeed. With that plane out of commission, the morning LAX-CLT was downguaged to a 727-200; PI took a lot of oversales for a while


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6940 times:

I remember back in the days of Reagan/Bush that Piedmont flew the 767 from BWI to LGW on a red eye flight. Where out of MIA did the 767 fly for Piedmont? I thought Miami only got Piedmont 737's, Fokkers and maybe a DC 9.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1937 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

Here is a seat map:




This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlinealexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6665 times:

Awesome seat map. Where did you find it?


You mad Bro???
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4935 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6648 times:

Quoting alexinwa (Reply 14):
Awesome seat map. Where did you find it?

Back before the days of the Internet, one could subscribe to a monthly publication filled with seat charts of all airlines. There was an International version as well as a Domestic version. They were about the size of an airline timetable.

This seat chart appears to come from that publication.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

Quoting n5014k (Reply 9):
My apologies to you US fans out there but in about 18 months I found US had either ruined or chased away the nicer PI folk. Different corporate cultures.

One major reason why mergers don't work the way bean counters tell you. See: AC & CP. Ten years ago and more, there are still grievances being argued about it, drags down overall performance. As well as lingering "us vs them" mentality.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6437 times:

Quoting n5014k (Reply 9):
By the way, maybe there is no perfect way to do First Class in a 767 - Delta's 2-2-2 seating was uncomfortably cramped, certainly not a satisfactory successor to the 1011 from a passenger comfort point of view.

As delivered, DL's -200s had 24 FC seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration. After complaints of cramped seating, 1 row of FC was removed, making it 18 seats.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1847 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6348 times:

Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 11):
Too lazy to look it up on rzjets, there was an N607P in the original PI order

Yes, N607P became N647US. With Piedmont, it was named "City of Charlotte" and was the first widebody airframe I ever flew on. She is now EI-DBW with Transaero.


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User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5902 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5955 times:
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Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
As delivered, DL's -200s had 24 FC seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration. After complaints of cramped seating, 1 row of FC was removed, making it 18 seats.

Off the overall subject but inline with your specific subject... I flew 1st class on USAir (not US Airways at the time) BAe-146 from OAK-LAX and the guy next to me was an international flier. He made it pretty clear that the first class in those airplanes sucked...no legroom. He told me that he shouldn't have to touch the monumment in front of him when he crossed his legs while seated.


User currently offlinedeltacto From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5932 times:

Quoting alexinwa (Reply 14):
Awesome seat map. Where did you find it?

Here is one web site that shows the Piedmont 767-200ER

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/freque...t-map-piedmont-airlines-767-200er/

This is an amazing site - lots of old seat maps


User currently offlinedeltacto From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
As delivered, DL's -200s had 24 FC seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration. After complaints of cramped seating, 1 row of FC was removed, making it 18 seats.

Correct - here is DL's 767-200 seat map after the reconfiguration: F-18 Y-186

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/freque...ir-lines-boeing-767-200-from-1987/


User currently offlineokAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

Was the aft galley so short in depth in reality or is it just wrongly drawn in the seat map?

okAY


User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

It would nice to give these birds a few flights out west before they go. Phx -clt or, PHX to HNL.

User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5649 times:

Quoting deltacto (Reply 20):
This is an amazing site - lots of old seat maps

Just remember, these are not the official airline seat maps. These were generated by the publication.


25 MSYPI7185 : Your correct the total was for 12 767's. 6 and 6 options, however I seem to remember that US did not exercise the 6 options. Later they did order 6 7
26 PITrules : No worries; I do remember US taking up only 12 total airframes, so I assumed it was exercising the options on the original 6/6 order. You may be corr
27 CF-CPI : After the seat row was removed, FC was a generous 41"-42", which nicely compensated for the narrower seats vs. the L1011. Does anyone know the pitch
28 Viscount724 : Regardless of seat pitch, 6-abreast F class (or even J class) on the 767 has always been a second-rate product (referring to the old recliner seats).
29 mayor : I non-revved on a DL before they re-configured FC but I can't give any specifics other than my impression that it was relatively tight.
30 PHLapproach : I can confirm it actually still works. When I worked for US a few years ago once in a while when I was on break I would go up on aircraft during turn
31 LGA777 : As a Piedmont Employee and very frequent non rever back in that era would like to add a few of my memories not previously mentioned. First I can't rem
32 CF-CPI : Right - the seat pairs are 48" wide, whereas the Airbus widebodies come in at 52"-53", and the 767 5 across is about that as well (54" I think). Boei
33 Post contains images nitepilot79 : Before US, North Carolina was Piedmont country dammit
34 Post contains images nitepilot79 : Piedmont is missed by many
35 PI4EVER : I simply want to Thank many of you for the kind comments about "my" airline. I spent 20 years at PI and another 11+ years at US before early retiremen
36 CF-CPI : You flew the YS-11, and that in and of itself was a unique feature on the US aviation landscape in the 60s and 70s.
37 Post contains images 802flyguy : Boy, has this thread brought back some memories! Getting back to the OP, on the routings. One of PI's first transcon redeyes was LAX-BWI on the 767.
38 SpaceshipDC10 : Maybe it was just a one off, but in July 1989 I saw one at ORD waiting on a taxiway near the concourses.
39 LGA777 : Piedmont never flew the 767 in and out of ORD on a scheduled basis so what ever you saw was either a charter or perhaps a BWI-LAX or LAX-BWI diversio
40 connies4ever : Never was able to sample PI's 767 service, unfortunately. Sounds like it was a premium product. But I did do some shorthauls out of GSO with my then f
41 Post contains links and images cedarjet : Piedmont did well to get the 767 when they did - it must have represented a significant gamble at the time (esp going from a puddlejumper to London -
42 SpaceshipDC10 : Yes they took a big gamble, and indeed Braathens and Pacific Western didn't succeed, but from what I understand Piedmont had plans to use the 767s on
43 longhauler : Pacific Western had trans-cons, through YBR or YWG to YYZ. They had applied for non-stop YYZ-YYC, but was denied. Also, PW also had a large charter op
44 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : There was about a 4 year gap between disposal of their last 707-320C in 1979 and delivery of the two 762s in 1983. One of the two 707-320Cs crashed i
45 longhauler : Yes, the CEO (I think it was Rhys Eyton) had mentioned (to the pilots) when the B767s were delivered that he wanted PW to get back into the internati
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