kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11958 posts, RR: 37 Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7122 times:
Six were ordered, five of which remain with US (and one is now operated by Transaero).
They were delivered in 1987-88, then went to US Airways in 1989, with the takeover.
N603P became N245AY
N604P became N246AY
N605P became EI-DBW (Transaero)
N606P became N248AY
N614P became N249AU
N614P became N250AY
The only information I have on routes is that they operated PI's service to LGW, which was of course taken over by US and continues to this day (soon to move to LHR).
As to service, it was definitely a two class operation; I think they had 25 seats in C Class, but I stand to be corrected on that one.
MSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 699 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7121 times:
IIRC PI took delivery of 6 767's and US took the remaining 6 after the merger, and the dumbest thing IMO US did not exercise the options on the other 12 762ER's.
The first Route was TPA-CLT-LGW-CLT-TPA. Other than familiarization flights upon introduction of the type.
Other routes operated off the top of my head were CLT-MCO/TPA/LAX/MIA/BWI. I think we operated BWI-LAX for a time.
I think CLT-FRA was announced, but did not start until after US took over. With out checking the Data base, I seem to recall we received 3 in PI colors the other 3 polished AL w/Piedmont decals.
I'm sure someone here with a time table may be able to nail this down, but my memory just isnt that good. The merger with US in the middle of all this just makes it difficult for me to remember.
Just as PI was the lauch customer for the 734, but we never received one in PI colors, just polished AL with crappy decals!!
The First Class service was good. We had China, Glassware and stainless silverware. Hot Towel Service on Intl and West coast flights. The pax seemed to like it, I had only been on one EAL flight in First and it was a late night flight ATL-MSY, so I had nothing to personally compare it to. The EAL flight for me was just a larger seat and free drinks, nothing special.
I really enjoyed the First Class on PI, but then as I said, I have nothing else to compare it to. PI intented their FC to be one of the premier FC products among the legacy carriers, but IIRC the merger quickly scaled that back.
PITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2692 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7089 times:
Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 2): IIRC PI took delivery of 6 767's and US took the remaining 6 after the merger, and the dumbest thing IMO US did not exercise the options on the other 12 762ER's.
PI ordered 6 767s and 6 options. After the merger, US exercised the options for those 6 additional a/c for a total of 12 frames. I'm not sure where you are getting "the options on the other 12 762ER's" (for a total of 24) from?
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7016 times:
Piedmont didn't enjoy the "glow" from their 767 for long since they merged soon after. CLT to London was the route which the 767 allowed Piedmont to launch. Surely Piedmont would have launched more European flights from CLT and BWI.
802flyguy From United States of America, joined May 2012, 90 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6410 times:
The PI F/C service on 767 was very nice indeed (as it was in 727 days, when PI only had F/C on Calif flights. Even Y class was nothing to sneeze at, with how towels and free (CA, of course) wines.
The original PI seating was 25/185, with F/C in 2-1-2; the F/C seats offered great room and recline (although not lie flat). It was changed to 24 seats in 2-2-2 during the BA wetlease/codeshare days, actually a bit of a downgrade to match BA C class standard.
CLT-LAX flights on the 767 commenced in early summer of '87; BWI-LAX (a new market for PI) followed later. (Early 88?)
Until shortly after the US merger, the 767 audio entertainment had a UAL Ch9 style ATC/pilot channel, although I don't think that was advertised.
Those who been around PI for a while had seen their airline go from a local service carrier with YS-11s and FH-227s hopping across the Mid-South to flying wide body jets across eight time zones, a bit of a source of pride.
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5534 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6156 times:
I had the priviledge of flying PI/US 767-200's between CLT-LAX...then onto OAK. If I remember right, the 767-200's had different, more comfortable coach seats during the merger transition timeframe.
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4723 posts, RR: 25 Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6091 times:
Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 2): Just as PI was the lauch customer for the 734, but we never received one in PI colors, just polished AL with crappy decals!!
I thought US was the launch customer, but know thinking about it you're probably correct.....damn I hate it that PI is gone, loved their service top to bottom and the Piedmont Punch was fabulous. I still have one can sitting in my airplane room!
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
n5014k From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5927 times:
I still miss PI very much. My home airport is BWI and while I acknowledge the benefit WN has brought to us I maintain that PI's service and attitude during its peak years were superior to those of just about every other domestic US airline. We had two Presidents Club rooms here, too.
I flew the 767 BWI-LAX-BWI many times and their first class service was quite good. On the flights I took the service was designated First Class, not Business class - I still have some boarding passes somewhere saying so. They had 2-1-2 seating in First, and I tried the single middle seat just once. It looked like it would be nicer than it was - the seats had hard "slabs" on either side of the seats and that made it tough to spread out. After than I found aisle seats somewhere else. For a while after US took them over I'd ask the nicest flight attendant working First Class if he or she was from PI and the answer almost always was "yes." My apologies to you US fans out there but in about 18 months I found US had either ruined or chased away the nicer PI folk. Different corporate cultures. Same thing when they took over PSA, for that matter. I gave up on USAir a couple of years later and switched back to DL, staying with them until they canceled the Flying Colonel program.
By the way, maybe there is no perfect way to do First Class in a 767 - Delta's 2-2-2 seating was uncomfortably cramped, certainly not a satisfactory successor to the 1011 from a passenger comfort point of view.
FI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1056 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5870 times:
I used to non-rev BWI-MCO-BWI on the PI 762's they always put me up front and treated me great. I do remember the
employees at BWI grumbling about the engine selection, which I always thought was strange. PI was in no way stupid
they weighted their options carefully. I really truly miss them. What a great carrier they were.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
802flyguy From United States of America, joined May 2012, 90 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5573 times:
Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
N603P became N245AY
N604P became N246AY
N605P became EI-DBW (Transaero)
N606P became N248AY
N614P became N249AU
N614P became N250AY
Too lazy to look it up on rzjets, there was an N607P in the original PI order; it had reputation as a "hangar queen". IIRC, it was this ship that suffered a tail strike on landing at LAX not long after the start of PI's 767 service there. It sat in the old AA hangars for a couple of weeks, as PI and Boeing engineers and techs pored over it. In the wake of the JAL123 disaster, the rear pressure bulkhead received a great deal of attention indeed. With that plane out of commission, the morning LAX-CLT was downguaged to a 727-200; PI took a lot of oversales for a while
zippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 4724 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4797 times:
I remember back in the days of Reagan/Bush that Piedmont flew the 767 from BWI to LGW on a red eye flight. Where out of MIA did the 767 fly for Piedmont? I thought Miami only got Piedmont 737's, Fokkers and maybe a DC 9.
DL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1761 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4745 times:
Here is a seat map:
It's not going to the Moon.....It's just going to California
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 36 Reply 15, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4501 times:
Quoting alexinwa (Reply 14): Awesome seat map. Where did you find it?
Back before the days of the Internet, one could subscribe to a monthly publication filled with seat charts of all airlines. There was an International version as well as a Domestic version. They were about the size of an airline timetable.
This seat chart appears to come from that publication.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4306 times:
Quoting n5014k (Reply 9): My apologies to you US fans out there but in about 18 months I found US had either ruined or chased away the nicer PI folk. Different corporate cultures.
One major reason why mergers don't work the way bean counters tell you. See: AC & CP. Ten years ago and more, there are still grievances being argued about it, drags down overall performance. As well as lingering "us vs them" mentality.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9203 posts, RR: 14 Reply 17, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4294 times:
Quoting n5014k (Reply 9): By the way, maybe there is no perfect way to do First Class in a 767 - Delta's 2-2-2 seating was uncomfortably cramped, certainly not a satisfactory successor to the 1011 from a passenger comfort point of view.
As delivered, DL's -200s had 24 FC seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration. After complaints of cramped seating, 1 row of FC was removed, making it 18 seats.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
USAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1806 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4205 times:
Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 11): Too lazy to look it up on rzjets, there was an N607P in the original PI order
Yes, N607P became N647US. With Piedmont, it was named "City of Charlotte" and was the first widebody airframe I ever flew on. She is now EI-DBW with Transaero.
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5534 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3812 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 17): As delivered, DL's -200s had 24 FC seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration. After complaints of cramped seating, 1 row of FC was removed, making it 18 seats.
Off the overall subject but inline with your specific subject... I flew 1st class on USAir (not US Airways at the time) BAe-146 from OAK-LAX and the guy next to me was an international flier. He made it pretty clear that the first class in those airplanes sucked...no legroom. He told me that he shouldn't have to touch the monumment in front of him when he crossed his legs while seated.
deltacto From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 279 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3778 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 17): As delivered, DL's -200s had 24 FC seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration. After complaints of cramped seating, 1 row of FC was removed, making it 18 seats.
Correct - here is DL's 767-200 seat map after the reconfiguration: F-18 Y-186
MSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 699 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3422 times:
Quoting PITrules (Reply 3): PI ordered 6 767s and 6 options. After the merger, US exercised the options for those 6 additional a/c for a total of 12 frames. I'm not sure where you are getting "the options on the other 12 762ER's" (for a total of 24) from?
Your correct the total was for 12 767's. 6 and 6 options, however I seem to remember that US did not exercise the 6 options. Later they did order 6 767's but had quite a delay getting them. I do remember being irritated that they did not take the options only to turn around and order 6 767's sometime later. Like I said my memory is not as good as it used to be. I need to look through my PI things to see if I can dig up anymore on this. I just hope I have'nt completely lost my mind!!
No worries; I do remember US taking up only 12 total airframes, so I assumed it was exercising the options on the original 6/6 order. You may be correct that they cancelled the original 6 options only to order 6 more at a later date. 24 seemed like a larger number.
CF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 849 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3392 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 17): As delivered, DL's -200s had 24 FC seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration. After complaints of cramped seating, 1 row of FC was removed, making it 18 seats.
After the seat row was removed, FC was a generous 41"-42", which nicely compensated for the narrower seats vs. the L1011. Does anyone know the pitch prior to the rearrangement? I'm thinking it could have been as low as 36", which is tight for FC. Combined with the narrower seat, you can see why pax might have complained. I have an brochure for the DL 767, showing people in that original FC, and it does look tight (there's a staged photo of people eating a meal).
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, RR: 24 Reply 28, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3262 times:
Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 27): Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
As delivered, DL's -200s had 24 FC seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration. After complaints of cramped seating, 1 row of FC was removed, making it 18 seats.
After the seat row was removed, FC was a generous 41"-42", which nicely compensated for the narrower seats vs. the L1011.
Regardless of seat pitch, 6-abreast F class (or even J class) on the 767 has always been a second-rate product (referring to the old recliner seats). The 767 requires 5-abreast (2-2-1 or 2-1-2) to offer comparable standards to the A300/310/330/340 with 2-2-2 seating and of course the even wider DC-10/MD-11/L-1011. With 2-2-2 on the 767 (just one less seat across than Y class) both the seats and armrests are notably narrow.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9203 posts, RR: 14 Reply 29, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3221 times:
Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 27): Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
As delivered, DL's -200s had 24 FC seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration. After complaints of cramped seating, 1 row of FC was removed, making it 18 seats.
After the seat row was removed, FC was a generous 41"-42", which nicely compensated for the narrower seats vs. the L1011. Does anyone know the pitch prior to the rearrangement? I'm thinking it could have been as low as 36", which is tight for FC. Combined with the narrower seat, you can see why pax might have complained. I have an brochure for the DL 767, showing people in that original FC, and it does look tight (there's a staged photo of people eating a meal).
I non-revved on a DL before they re-configured FC but I can't give any specifics other than my impression that it was relatively tight.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
PHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1181 posts, RR: 22 Reply 30, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3209 times:
Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 6): Until shortly after the US merger, the 767 audio entertainment had a UAL Ch9 style ATC/pilot channel, although I don't think that was advertised.
I can confirm it actually still works. When I worked for US a few years ago once in a while when I was on break I would go up on aircraft during turns and one time I noticed the switch for OBS Audio on the overhead. Although I think it was placarded "deactivated" But I flipped it on and went to the back and sure enough there was ATC piping in from COMM1 through what I think was Channel 14 IIRC.
LGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 22 Reply 31, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3087 times:
As a Piedmont Employee and very frequent non rever back in that era would like to add a few of my memories not previously mentioned.
First I can't remember the month in 1987 that 767 service started but I do remember three huge milestones occurred the same day.
The start of 767 service. (Piedmont's first wide body service)
The start of CLT-LGW service (Piedmont's first transatlantic service)
The start of system wide First Class service (was previously only offered on a sub fleet of 6 727-200's for service to LAX and SFO).
It was a lot to introduce in one day but Piedmont pulled it off as I recall with Flying colors and I flew 4 First Class legs that first day and all was very smooth. Flying on just a 737-200 on my final leg of the day on the short CLT-LGA leg and getting Shrimp Cocktail, a nice steak with baked potato and vegetables and Piedmont's signature desert Chocolate Covered Strawberries was such a perfect end to an amazing day, after doing CLT-BWI-TPA-CLT on the 767 then watching the inaugural CLT-LGW depart with much pomp and circumstance.
The initial 2 aircraft rotation was CLT-BWI-TPA-CLT-LGW and LGW-CLT-TPA-CLT then a CLT-LAX-CLT turn was added when the 3rd aircraft 647 was delivered. If I remember correctly the slightly odd one way BWI-TPA leg lasted till around the merger in 1989 and was usually full or close.
The seats in First/Business were very plush looking and that 1 middle seat was narrower than the other 4, basically I think around the width of one that 2-2-2 configs had, and the other 4 you could really notice the difference in width from most other US carriers 2-2-2 seats, very comfortable.
The service to and from LGW up front was quite impressive I thought. Most courses were served on serving trolleys in each aisle. I recall having Prime Rib carved next to my seat, and being able to choose from 4 or 5 vegetables and others sides being added to my plate after choosing them by sight. Desert was usually some sort of large tall cake served on the trolley and being sliced at your seat, I recall this also on CLT-LAX as well.
One last observation was the ability to broadcast live TV over the Movie screens while on the ground. I recall watching the CBS evening news during boarding in CLT several times and on one memorable CLT-LAX evening flight the Lakers were in the NBA finals and the great crew actually was able to show most of the second half live, as I recall the movie had ended and many passengers were asking for the score and the GREAT crew decided to do even better. As I recall we started out watching from an ABQ station then as we continued west they switched to a PHX station and finally an LA one. The passengers loved it and created quite a happy party atmosphere on board, especially when the Lakers won.
Well these are some of my recollections from a very proud Piedmont employee, I hope some of you enjoyed them.
CF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 849 posts, RR: 0 Reply 32, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2996 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28): With 2-2-2 on the 767 (just one less seat across than Y class) both the seats and armrests are notably narrow.
Right - the seat pairs are 48" wide, whereas the Airbus widebodies come in at 52"-53", and the 767 5 across is about that as well (54" I think). Boeing and Airbus narrowbody, as well as the L10/D10 and 747 offered 57" pairs and the center armrests are really nice and wide.
PI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 599 posts, RR: 2 Reply 35, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2554 times:
I simply want to Thank many of you for the kind comments about "my" airline. I spent 20 years at PI and another 11+ years at US before early retirement. PI provided me the opportunity to live my dream of working for an airline right after I left military service, and although I worked for PI when it wasn't fashionable to do so....we were a "puddle jumper" airline who flew prop airplanes and had the reputation of being a "local yokel", I proudly wore my uniform and worked my you-know-what off for "my" airline. I was rewarded with a successful career, and pride at being associated with a truly outstanding airline and Company. It is hard to describe how one feels when you see the accomplishment your Company has made....thanks in part to dedicated employees....in the delivery of a 767 and the start of an international route, knowing you were a part of a successful, profitable, award-winning airline that grew from flying props throughout the South. Trust me, the delivery of a new 737-200 in the 70's was a big deal so to move forward to 1987 and experience the growth and success the 767 represented was very special for PI people.
I felt my years at US were equally successful, and mixed with the emotion and drama of 2 dynamic mergers in 2 years....PS and PI merged to US by 1989, I came away knowing I had been blessed to live my dream. I did not have the passion before, nor since about anything I've ever done, that surpassed the privilege and opportunity this airline gave me in 1969. And Thank You to my colleagues for working with me side-by-side, in the good times and bad, to help make this Company such a memorable legacy.
It was real. It was fun. It was real fun. Would I do it all over again?
In a heartbeat.....
802flyguy From United States of America, joined May 2012, 90 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2112 times:
Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
How many 767's did PI operate? What routes were served?
Boy, has this thread brought back some memories!
Getting back to the OP, on the routings. One of PI's first transcon redeyes was LAX-BWI on the 767. In the morning the aircraft would do a BWI-BDA turn, then usually back to LAX.
LGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 22 Reply 39, posted (4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1833 times:
Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 38): Maybe it was just a one off, but in July 1989 I saw one at ORD waiting on a taxiway near the concourses.
Piedmont never flew the 767 in and out of ORD on a scheduled basis so what ever you saw was either a charter or perhaps a BWI-LAX or LAX-BWI diversion perhaps, pretty sure Piedmont's ORD gates were not wide body capable as well.
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 40, posted (4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1740 times:
Never was able to sample PI's 767 service, unfortunately. Sounds like it was a premium product. But I did do some shorthauls out of GSO with my then fiance. Piedmont was easily the best short haul outfit I've flown with, including WS. They could take a lesson.
cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7713 posts, RR: 55 Reply 41, posted (4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1666 times:
Piedmont did well to get the 767 when they did - it must have represented a significant gamble at the time (esp going from a puddlejumper to London - then again, what is the Atlantic, if not the world's greatest puddle?).
Here are two good regional airlines that made the same leap and it didn't work out - betcha forgot either of these even had 767s (both -200s, like Piedmont).
Yes they took a big gamble, and indeed Braathens and Pacific Western didn't succeed, but from what I understand Piedmont had plans to use the 767s on transcon and trans-atlantic routes, which are quite different from the shorter hops in Western Canada or Norway
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 36 Reply 43, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1515 times:
Pacific Western had trans-cons, through YBR or YWG to YYZ. They had applied for non-stop YYZ-YYC, but was denied. Also, PW also had a large charter operation using B707-320s, which the B767s were to replace. Southern vacation charters, as well as trans-con charters.
But it was the denial of YYZ-YYC scheduled rights that sealed the fate for the B767s at PW. Ironically enough, AC which would have been instrumental in the denial of the YYZ-YYC rights, was quite happy to "pick up" the now unnecessary B767s from PW ... and that started the whole PWA / TCA registration battle that followed in the next decade!
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, RR: 24 Reply 44, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1359 times:
Quoting longhauler (Reply 43): Also, PW also had a large charter operation using B707-320s, which the B767s were to replace.
There was about a 4 year gap between disposal of their last 707-320C in 1979 and delivery of the two 762s in 1983. One of the two 707-320Cs crashed in a snowstorm on approach to YEG in 1973 killing the crew and a load of cattle. I think the -320Cs operated as freighters for quite a bit of their time with PW.
Their longest-lived 707 was an ex-QF -138B, with PW from 1967 to 1978, and another ex-QF 138B from 1969 to 1971. The first one was converted to a VIP aircraft after its years with PW and was restored in its original QF livery a few years ago after several years parked derelict in the UK. It was flown back to Australia and is now on display at a museum at Longreach where QF was founded. It was QF's first 707 (then VH-EBA) and the first commercial jet registered in Australia. http://www.qfom.com.au/707.html
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 36 Reply 45, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1285 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 44): There was about a 4 year gap between disposal of their last 707-320C in 1979 and delivery of the two 762s in 1983.
Yes, the CEO (I think it was Rhys Eyton) had mentioned (to the pilots) when the B767s were delivered that he wanted PW to get back into the international charter market left with the last the B707s.
But ... say as he did, I really think he was banking on more transcontinental rights in Canada.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
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