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Virgin Atlantic As A Skyteam Member  
User currently offlinen102daman From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 155 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15176 times:

With the upcoming Joint venture Delta - Virgin what is the estimated time frame for Delta to admit Virgin as a Skyteam member?

I travel regularly from DXB - ATL through London. Id prefer to earn Skymiles if I can. Currently I use BA and travel in World Traveler Plus and Club World every few months depending on the fare.

What are the differences between Virgin Atlantic and British Airways Premium Economy and Upper Class / Club World service.

Obviously Id prefer the Delta option. Giving up my BA / AA in order to earn status with Delta / Virgin via switching carriers.


"Service and Hospitality from the Heart." (C. E. Woolman, Delta airlines first CEO and founder.)
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15152 times:

Quoting n102daman (Thread starter):
I travel regularly from DXB - ATL through London. Id prefer to earn Skymiles if I can.

Why through London? Why not DL ATL-DXB nonstop on lie-flat beds in J?



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinen102daman From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15072 times:

I travel through London for a number of reasons Business, Family, Friends, and cost. The DL DXB - ATL non stop in Business Elite is much more expensive than the CLUB / WT+ option on BA through London. Because of the cost difference my travel allowance covers the cost of BA and not Delta.

BA's World Traveler Plus product is much better than Deltas Economy Comfort. BA considers WT+ to be a separate class of service thus reflected in it being a separate cabin on board the aircraft. While Delta considers Economy Comfort it to be an upgraded seat.

Delta's Business Elite product is better than BA's Club World but that doesn't justify the $2-3000 difference in cost.

With all that being said it would still be nice to have the option available to use the DL DXB - ATL service if i needed to.

Bottom line the Delta - Virgin deal is a win for my travel needs right now as it gives me MANY options as the company that I work for also is opening offices in Europe as well.



"Service and Hospitality from the Heart." (C. E. Woolman, Delta airlines first CEO and founder.)
User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12984 times:
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I'm in a similar situation as yours where my business takes me frequently from Los Angeles to Seoul. My status is with Delta, so I only fly Skyteam. I have a spending cap on flights to ICN, so what I do is pay the difference out-of-pocket to maintain Elite Plus Status, etc. I don't want to invest in more than one alliance. My life is already complicated as it is. So, if my travel agent wants to book with Thai due to company policy for example, I will pay the difference to fly Korean Air, China Southern, China Airlines, China Eastern, or Delta to have a single mileage account, SkyPriority, Fast Track, Lounge Access, etc.

The difference could add up into the thousands per annum, but the pay-off for me is a free First Class Around the World ticket with free hotel stays and the option to purchase last-minute frequent flier award seats that require a higher mileage fare. Because you never know when those last-minute, personal emergencies that require flying may occur!

Take the non-stop and pay a little more. Stop waiting for Virgin Atlantic to make up it's mind. It's not about what you win now, it's all about the long-haul! Return on Investment. Trust me!

Bon Voyage,

AirAfreak



Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
User currently offlineaudidudi From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12231 times:

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 3):

I have been a DL Diamond Medallion since the beginning, but have never seen this "free First Class Around The World ticket with free hotel stays" being offered to me! Could you please elaborate how you get this great deal from Skyteam?


User currently offlineluganopirate From Switzerland, joined Apr 2010, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11720 times:
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It's not a given that Virgin will join Skyteam. DL only bought 49% from SIA, a share they held for about 22 years without VS ever becoming part of Star Alliance. I'm sure there'll be advantages such as code sharing, through ticketing etc but don't hold your breath on them becoming part of Skyteam.

User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10875 times:

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 5):
It's not a given that Virgin will join Skyteam. DL only bought 49% from SIA, a share they held for about 22 years without VS ever becoming part of Star Alliance.

But Delta is going to be a far more engaged & hands on shareholder than Singapore ever was.

Virgin themselves have already said they will be assessing Skyteam entry over the next couple of months... I don't ever recall them saying they were publicly assessing a single alliance before.


User currently offlineStarGuy From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10649 times:

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 5):

SIA purchased 49% of VS, 12 years ago so I'm assuming a typo?


User currently offlineluganopirate From Switzerland, joined Apr 2010, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9672 times:
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Thanks Starguy. Yes, a typo, fat finger on an iPad! Apologies  

There was speculation that VS would join Star some time after SIA bought the stake but nothing happened. Whether this was due to reluctance from VS or SIA I don't know, but it didn't happen. Hence my comment, but indeed, maybe with DL being more active they will finally join an alliance.


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9265 times:

Although Virgin says it hasn't yet decided things may change a) when Virgin gains a new CEO after Steve Ridgway leaves in March 2013 and b) Delta's purchase of SIA's 49% stake completes and it has three Directors on the board of Virgin.

User currently offlineluganopirate From Switzerland, joined Apr 2010, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8043 times:
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Did SIA have any board positions at VS? If so I presume they'll resign now?

User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7589 times:

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 10):
Did SIA have any board positions at VS? If so I presume they'll resign now?

I think they have, or did have, at least one director but certainly not three. I assume any remaining directors will resign when Delta completes its purchase of their stake.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7575 times:
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I think we'll see all three Virgin Air Companies join Sky Team. It makes a lot of sense for all involved, in particular, the Virgin Air Companies. It will give them access to markets they currently don't have not belonging to any alliance, and will strengthen their presence in all their major hubs, with nearly all have equal importance. I see it being increasingly important for them to join Sky Team considering VX is very vulnerable against the much bigger carriers and alliances in the US. In Austrailia, I think it will allow them to gain some significant footing when you consider all the problems QF has, and then across the Atlantic to Heathrow. This will allow VS to grow in ways they are limited in doing so now.

User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1253 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7399 times:
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Quoting anstar (Reply 6):

In the recent Air Transport World magazine article Branson and VS management admitted they could not hold out against the big alliances and were going to Have to join one to have any chance of growth


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7003 times:

Could VA follow suit, giving Skyteam a presence in an area of the world where they're very weak?

User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4252 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6232 times:

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 5):
It's not a given that Virgin will join Skyteam. DL only bought 49% from SIA, a share they held for about 22 years without VS ever becoming part of Star Alliance. I'm sure there'll be advantages such as code sharing, through ticketing etc but don't hold your breath on them becoming part of Skyteam.

I can only hold my breath for about 2 minutes. That aside, having VS in Skyteam would not really open up many more options for me although it would give me more options to fly from here to London where I have business interests I go about once a month to take of. Flying on Virgin is not really something I look for as they do not allow me to travel very easily to Canada.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 626 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6205 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 14):
Could VA follow suit,

Why not ? EY has increased its stake in VA to 10% and seem to have found a good dance partner with ST...



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3071 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 16):
Why not ? EY has increased its stake in VA to 10% and seem to have found a good dance partner with ST...

But NZ and SQ also have significant stakes in the company. I think VA are going the route of having strategic partners rather than being in an alliance. Even if VS joins, VA is not a given. VA will still partner with VS and DL, but joining the rest is not a given.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 626 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5823 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 17):
Even if VS joins, VA is not a given. VA will still partner with VS and DL, but joining the rest is not a given.

Agreed ! I am not saying it is a given but a possibility. We will see  



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1710 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

And if they go and join 'SKYTEAM' they can forget about moving into the New T2 at LHR next year then sorry VS only for 'Star Alliance' ! haha they just like making lots of noise but very few actions. who every they go for it will be interesting the next year. is it Star is it SKYTEAM or will it just do nothing.!

just looking at the numbers of code-shares they have

Virgin Atlantic has agreements with the following airlines;

Air China - *
Air New Zealand - *
All Nippon Airways - *
Cyprus Airways
Gulf Air
Hawaiian Airlines
Jet Airways
Malaysia Airlines
Scandinavian Airlines - *
Singapore Airlines - *
South African Airways - *
Transaero
US Airways - *
Virgin America
Virgin Australia

Star Alliance = 7
Oneworld = 1
SKYTEAM = 1

and the new Delta JSA.



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5739 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 13):
In the recent Air Transport World magazine article Branson and VS management admitted they could not hold out against the big alliances and were going to Have to join one to have any chance of growth

And int he JV press conference she said that Virgin Atlantic where now assessing entrance into Skyteam with a view on a deicision in the next few months.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 19):
And if they go and join 'SKYTEAM' they can forget about moving into the New T2 at LHR next year

Virgin Atlantic have already confirmed they will not be moving their long haul operations into T2.... they will remain in T3 and hope to get their domestic flights moved into T3 also (with Delta eventually joining them).


User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8552 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5708 times:
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Quoting n102daman (Reply 2):
Delta's Business Elite product is better than BA's Club World but that doesn't justify the $2-3000 difference in cost.

- It's not bad but I don't think it's better, at least from my experiences.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8413 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5531 times:

Quoting n102daman (Thread starter):
With the upcoming Joint venture Delta - Virgin what is the estimated time frame for Delta to admit Virgin as a Skyteam member?

What makes you think VS wants to be in Sky Team? When SQ owned 49% they didn't join *A. In fact they had a partnership with CO which was in SkyTeam. So the history of VS and SkyTeam cooperation predates the DL JV by many years and they are still not members of SkyTeam.


User currently offlinen102daman From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4803 times:

Thank you for all the input. I have my next two trips in the next three months booked with BA. This trip the return will be a 2 day layover in London and the next will be 2 days on both ends. This is my usual stopover when traveling back to Atlanta. I get a healthy travel allowance and it covers my booking

The non stop is nice and Id like to take advantage of it if the price is right and I can't make the stopover in London. My typical Booking is DXB-LHR and LHR-ATL Club World and return in World Traveler Plus with an upgrade if available and the price is right. I get a healthy travel allowance and it covers my booking with a little left over. I usually pay the difference for upgrades and what not.

My experience with BA Club World on both the 747 and the 777 I have found the seats to be a bit harder and narrower. Though my Experience with Delta Air Lines Business Elite was on the 767-400ER LHR-ATL a few months back was much more pleasant due to the smaller aircraft and 1-2-1 configuration. Granted this configuration and the seat is completely different than what Delta Air Lines has on the 777 and the 747s. I have seen it but not experienced it on those aircraft though I can say I find the configuration of the Delta 777 Business Elite cabin on the 777 much more attractive and comfortable from what I have seen.

There is no comparison to Delta's Economy Comfort and BA's World Traveler plus cabin. BA has Delta beat hands down. I am 6'3" so the extra room on the return legs is nice for the shorter tailwind flights. It would be nice to earn SkyMiles when traveling on that route as I enjoy it and my stopovers in London.

With Delta purchasing a 49% stake and having 3 board members on the with VA it would make sense for VA to join SkyTeam. I am sure ill be able to Delta seats on VA flights from DXB - LHR at least I hope so If not well then I guess Ill just stick with BA. Mostly I was curious as to what other forum members take on it was as I am pretty much out of the look where Delta is concerned as my employment has changed.

Thanks again for all your input. I'LL be listening to more if you have it and welcome it.



"Service and Hospitality from the Heart." (C. E. Woolman, Delta airlines first CEO and founder.)
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

I suppose Skyteam membership could provide some AF and KL feeds into the VS network but at the same time I wonder how membership would benefit VS? AF and KL already offer their own feeds from UK airports to Paris and Amsterdam where their respective long haul networks already cover most of VS's destinations.

It may be more advantageous just to have a codeshare with DL for domestic US flights.



Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319-BA), OSL-LHR (319-BA), LHR-CPH (320-BA), VXO-BMA (S20-TF), ARN-CPH (738-SK), CPH-LHR (320-BA)
25 nickofatlanta : SkyTeam members in the Far East could help feed VS flights such as China Eastern in PVG.
26 anstar : Because the COO said they are assessing Skyteam membership over the next couple of months - why assess entry if you don't want to join?
27 jetlanta : Absolutely. Too many people here can't see the forrest through the trees. Anyone who thinks that VS isn't joining SkyTeam didn't listen carefully to
28 gilesdavies : Why would any SkyTeam airline in Europe want Virgin Atlantic to be a member? Other than Delta, I can't see any benefits for SkyTeam's other major airl
29 jetlanta : Because an alliance with Virgin gives AF & KL a stronger point-of-sale presence in the U.K., a key feed market for their hubs. Virgin's network i
30 anstar : Why do they have 4 Chinese members? VS offer AF/KL & Skyteam the LHR onward traffic. AF tried doing LHR-LAX previously so it must have some impor
31 LDVAviation : Brits already have many longhaul and shorthaul options, other than BA, many of them from more convenient regional hubs like Manchester. Why would the
32 rwy04lga : I agree completely, however, since SRB owns 51%, what can DL do to stop him from joining Star?
33 jetlanta : Because LHR is capacity constrained and will never accommodate all of the demand. And, due to its presence in certain markets (including the upcoming
34 n102daman : I would think that it would strengthen Deltas stake in UK routes, like wise for VA. That seems to be the biggest reason Delta wants to buy in. Underst
35 anstar : Bingo - and has the most premium EU-US traffic flows.
36 LDVAviation : Fewer and fewer Brits are connecting via CDG and AMS even with the way things are now. There was an article in Aviation Week about this earlier in th
37 mayor : Not likely that CO was going to push for VS to be in Skyteam as CO was always a reluctant member of that alliance. Also, before Skyteam was formed, D
38 nickofatlanta : It was also a block space codeshare arrangement meaning that DL purchased an allotment of seats on VS flights, effectively guaranteeing VS revenue.
39 rwy04lga : Again, to be sure, I agree completely. My question was not rhetorical...What can DL do if perhaps SRB decides to join Star? Can DL prevent it? If so,
40 jetlanta : There are how many destinations that AMS and CDG can serve that no Gulf hub can serve? Lots if higher yielding traffic has no interest in the LCC pro
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