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National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 489 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5528 times:

I was surprised National got a route to Europe from JFK,when Pan Am and TWA did the European flying from JFK.
When National got that route was TWA or Pan Am also operating JFK-AMS also.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4879 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

I did a little research on the invaluable departedflights.com. In 1979, NA route map showed JFK-AMS, while neither the TW nor PA route maps from the same year showed AMS as a destination.


Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

Quick summary:

The basics go back to the TWA/PA route swap and route discontinuation as a result of the oil crisis in the first half of the 1970s. As that deal became to be unwound in the last part of the '70s/early 80s, airlines without previous route authorities across the Atlantic made applications for new international routes during those heady days of deregulation, especially in markets where service was nonexistent or the market underserved. Braniff was also awarded routes to Amsterdam, from Boston and Dallas.

National's JFK-AMS service began 12/13/78. Beginning in the early 1980's, Pan Am began to expand more into southern Europe, the mainstay of TWA's routes, and TWA began to expand into northern Europe, where Pan Am had ruled the roost. I recall TWA extending its JFK-AMS service to CPH on the L-1011 sometime in the later 1980s, at least for part of the year, for instance.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
I recall TWA extending its JFK-AMS service to CPH on the L-1011 sometime in the later 1980s, at least for part of the year, for instance.

National operated the JFK-AMS-JFK route daily with DC10-30 for a brief period prior to PAnAms take-over. See the NationalSundowners for details: http://www.nationalsundowners.com/home.php

In the 1980's TWA operated the L1011 daily on flight TW814/TW815 routed JFK-AMS-BRU-AMS-JFK.

While in 1995 Delta flight 80 operated the L1011 on JFK-AMS-JFK, this flight connected at AMS with Delta's L1011 on ATL-AMS-STR-AMS-ATL offering Delta pax a JFK-AMS-STR option.

Please note that by 1995 deregulation had resulted in the following airlines operating the JFK-AMS-route:

- FF with B747
- SQ with B747
- DL with L1011
- BG with DC10
- RJ with L1011
- PK with DC10
- KL with B747


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5257 times:

Quoting factsonly (Reply 3):
In the 1980's TWA operated the L1011 daily on flight TW814/TW815 routed JFK-AMS-BRU-AMS-JFK.

That was also one route. In the 1980s TWA also operated JFK-AMS nonstop standalone on the 747 and L-1011, plus they operated it as a tag on to one of the JFK-LHR 747 flights on Mo/Tu(?), at least one winter season, in lieu of the nonstop on those days of the week. On an award ticket I was allowed to pick up the tag at Heathrow as a through passenger, where they lost my luggage for two days during the connection, which is why I remember it so well!



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline802flyguy From United States of America, joined May 2012, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5124 times:

I think that prior to the Pan Am merger, National was third largest US TATL carrier, behind PA and TW, with routes from both MIA and JFK.

User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4261 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5026 times:

Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 5):
I think that prior to the Pan Am merger, National was third largest US TATL carrier, behind PA and TW, with routes from both MIA and JFK.

Very impressive!


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4841 times:

Quoting factsonly (Reply 3):
While in 1995 Delta flight 80 operated the L1011 on JFK-AMS-JFK, this flight connected at AMS with Delta's L1011 on ATL-AMS-STR-AMS-ATL offering Delta pax a JFK-AMS-STR option.

The good old days.    IIRC the JFK flight was extended to PRG for a while during that period.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4672 times:

Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 5):
I think that prior to the Pan Am merger, National was third largest US TATL carrier, behind PA and TW, with routes from both MIA and JFK.

I think Braniff may have been the #3 U.S. carrier in transatlantic capacity just prior to the Pan Am/National meger. Timetables from the latter half of 1979 show National with 20 flights a week in each direction and Braniff with 18, but all Braniff flights were 747s which probably meant more total seats than National.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8092 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4575 times:
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National was proud of making a JFK to AMS statement since its was the "sixth" biggest Atlantic route.

User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2152 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gerard Helmer



Those were the days!   

  


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 7):
The good old days. IIRC the JFK flight was extended to PRG for a while during that period.

Yes and also briefly HAM (or was that PA?).

Quoting factsonly (Reply 3):
In the 1980's TWA operated the L1011 daily on flight TW814/TW815 routed JFK-AMS-BRU-AMS-JFK.

And later a 767 AMS-JFK-AMS flight.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8751 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2057 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 11):
Yes and also briefly HAM (or was that PA?).

That was rather NW,

NA operated also FRA/AMS/MIA with D10-30



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2049 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
Quoting LJ (Reply 11):
Yes and also briefly HAM (or was that PA?).

That was rather NW,

I don't recall NW flying between AMS and HAM as a tag or triangular ex JFK...


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 13):

I don't recall NW flying between AMS and HAM as a tag or triangular ex JFK.

HAM was a NW tag-on from both LGW and CPH during their first years of transatlantic service in the early '80s. In their August 1982 timetable they had a daily 747 to HAM, 5 x week via LGW and 2 x week via CPH. They appear not to have had 5th freedom rights LGW-HAM but they did CPH-HAM.


User currently offlineSPaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1404 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1846 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
NA operated also FRA/AMS/MIA with D10-30

NA also operated TPA-AMS-FRA and for a short time a once weekly MIA-ZRH-ORY service.



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