doulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 349 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4432 times:
I was surprised National got a route to Europe from JFK,when Pan Am and TWA did the European flying from JFK.
When National got that route was TWA or Pan Am also operating JFK-AMS also.
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4682 posts, RR: 23 Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4410 times:
I did a little research on the invaluable departedflights.com. In 1979, NA route map showed JFK-AMS, while neither the TW nor PA route maps from the same year showed AMS as a destination.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18870 posts, RR: 64 Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4311 times:
Quick summary:
The basics go back to the TWA/PA route swap and route discontinuation as a result of the oil crisis in the first half of the 1970s. As that deal became to be unwound in the last part of the '70s/early 80s, airlines without previous route authorities across the Atlantic made applications for new international routes during those heady days of deregulation, especially in markets where service was nonexistent or the market underserved. Braniff was also awarded routes to Amsterdam, from Boston and Dallas.
National's JFK-AMS service began 12/13/78. Beginning in the early 1980's, Pan Am began to expand more into southern Europe, the mainstay of TWA's routes, and TWA began to expand into northern Europe, where Pan Am had ruled the roost. I recall TWA extending its JFK-AMS service to CPH on the L-1011 sometime in the later 1980s, at least for part of the year, for instance.
factsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4220 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2): I recall TWA extending its JFK-AMS service to CPH on the L-1011 sometime in the later 1980s, at least for part of the year, for instance.
National operated the JFK-AMS-JFK route daily with DC10-30 for a brief period prior to PAnAms take-over. See the NationalSundowners for details: http://www.nationalsundowners.com/home.php
In the 1980's TWA operated the L1011 daily on flight TW814/TW815 routed JFK-AMS-BRU-AMS-JFK.
While in 1995 Delta flight 80 operated the L1011 on JFK-AMS-JFK, this flight connected at AMS with Delta's L1011 on ATL-AMS-STR-AMS-ATL offering Delta pax a JFK-AMS-STR option.
Please note that by 1995 deregulation had resulted in the following airlines operating the JFK-AMS-route:
- FF with B747
- SQ with B747
- DL with L1011
- BG with DC10
- RJ with L1011
- PK with DC10
- KL with B747
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18870 posts, RR: 64 Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4161 times:
Quoting factsonly (Reply 3): In the 1980's TWA operated the L1011 daily on flight TW814/TW815 routed JFK-AMS-BRU-AMS-JFK.
That was also one route. In the 1980s TWA also operated JFK-AMS nonstop standalone on the 747 and L-1011, plus they operated it as a tag on to one of the JFK-LHR 747 flights on Mo/Tu(?), at least one winter season, in lieu of the nonstop on those days of the week. On an award ticket I was allowed to pick up the tag at Heathrow as a through passenger, where they lost my luggage for two days during the connection, which is why I remember it so well!
N62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3681 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3930 times:
Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 5): I think that prior to the Pan Am merger, National was third largest US TATL carrier, behind PA and TW, with routes from both MIA and JFK.
BasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1254 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3745 times:
Quoting factsonly (Reply 3): While in 1995 Delta flight 80 operated the L1011 on JFK-AMS-JFK, this flight connected at AMS with Delta's L1011 on ATL-AMS-STR-AMS-ATL offering Delta pax a JFK-AMS-STR option.
The good old days. IIRC the JFK flight was extended to PRG for a while during that period.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3576 times:
Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 5): I think that prior to the Pan Am merger, National was third largest US TATL carrier, behind PA and TW, with routes from both MIA and JFK.
I think Braniff may have been the #3 U.S. carrier in transatlantic capacity just prior to the Pan Am/National meger. Timetables from the latter half of 1979 show National with 20 flights a week in each direction and Braniff with 18, but all Braniff flights were 747s which probably meant more total seats than National.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 769 times:
Quoting LJ (Reply 13):
I don't recall NW flying between AMS and HAM as a tag or triangular ex JFK.
HAM was a NW tag-on from both LGW and CPH during their first years of transatlantic service in the early '80s. In their August 1982 timetable they had a daily 747 to HAM, 5 x week via LGW and 2 x week via CPH. They appear not to have had 5th freedom rights LGW-HAM but they did CPH-HAM.
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From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 349 posts, 
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From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1254 posts, 
IIRC the JFK flight was extended to PRG for a while during that period.
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