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DL And The A321?  
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6517 posts, RR: 9
Posted (1 year 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 17548 times:

There has been quite a bit of activity recently by Delta pilots on the Airline Pilot Central forum, concerning DL acquiring the A321. Don't know how valid this since DL has not said one word about it.
Since they are acquiring a large number of Boeing 737-900's in the near future,I don't put much credence to this story.
.In the past the DL pilots have speculated about 773's addtional 747's,addional A330's and of coure the 787's which DL has ordered but never finalized.

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 17554 times:

The 787 order is from NWA.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6517 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 17383 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
The 787 order is from NWA


Since the merger, everything that belonged to NW now belongs to DL including aircraft orders. assets and liabilities


User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 17357 times:

I'm skeptical, if only because they have a large existing fleet of A320s that do not appear to be prepped for interior upgrades that are being applied to the Boeing narrowbodies: WiFi and the video on demand. It's as if DL has settled on the 737s to handle the narrowbody twin routes long term. Aren't the 737-900 and A321 now more or less on a par with each other in terms of US domestic capability anyhow? Perhaps the A321 now has some operational advantage that I don't know about?

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 17162 times:

DL has recently renegotiated their pilot payscales (adding the 717), and there is still no payscale for the A321. And no, it would not be paid at the same rate as the A319/A320. The 739ER payscale is separate from the 73G/738 payscale, slotting in between the 73G/738 and the 752/753/763/763ER payscales.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2314 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 17110 times:

Well if you believe some people here DL is looking to add basically every used plane on the planet to their fleet.

User currently offlinefoxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 748 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 17087 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 6):
Well if you believe some people here DL is looking to add basically every used plane on the planet to their fleet.

That didn't stop DL/NW before the merger.........   


Andrew   



..uh, we'll need that to live......
User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 16994 times:

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 3):
WiFi and the video on demand.

Uh the A319/A320's already have wifi and the whole fleet will have VOD.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 16962 times:

I don´t believe that DL will acquire the A321 as say just placed a huge order for the 737-900ER.

The only reason why I could see them taking up some A321 might be availlability and urgent replacement needs for some of their 757s. But Delta´s A32x fleet is getting very old as well and they must have some of the oldest A320s flying around. The A320 while being a one of the best aircraft ever build it is not build to last as long as a Dc 9  
That is why I expect DL to retire their A32x fleet in the next 5-10 years so adding more used A32xs to their fleet for me seems not the right choice for DL



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 16960 times:

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 8):
Uh the A319/A320's already have wifi and the whole fleet will have VOD.

There are presently no plans to add AVOD to any existing domestic aircraft other than the 753s. Of course, those plans may change in the future, but don't count on it anytime soon.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 16888 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Thread starter):

I've been hearing the same rumors at work. They way it was told to me is that the deal is like what is being done with Bombardier. Apparently, Airbus is going to help DL get rid of some of the 50 seat RJs (by buying out leases or something) and DL is going to order A321s. I have no idea whether this will come to fruition or not but it is an interesting scenario none the less!


User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 16844 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):

There are presently no plans to add AVOD to any existing domestic aircraft other than the 753s. Of course, those plans may change in the future, but don't count on it anytime soon.

I realize that but I wasn't talking about AVOD, rather VOD through the on-board servers.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 16803 times:

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 10):
I've been hearing the same rumors at work. They way it was told to me is that the deal is like what is being done with Bombardier. Apparently, Airbus is going to help DL get rid of some of the 50 seat RJs (by buying out leases or something) and DL is going to order A321s. I have no idea whether this will come to fruition or not but it is an interesting scenario none the less!

Replacing 50-seat RJs with A321s seems a bit strange IMO. That is what the 717s are for. With the huge 739ER order, DL has no real need for the A321.

[Edited 2013-01-01 08:31:45]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 16708 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 12):
Replacing 50-seat RJs with A321s seems a bit strange IMO. That is what the 717s are for. With the huge 739ER order, DL has no real need for the A321.

It's not that they would replace a 50 seater with an A321; the way I understood it was that it was a (creative) way for DL to get rid of more 50 seat RJs by having someone buy them or buyout the leases. Similar to what is being done with Bombardier.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 16638 times:
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DL did state that the i737-900ERs on order would be used to replace "757s, 767s and A320s" between 2013 and 2018, so they will need over 250 airframes to replace the A320-200, 757-200, 757-300 and 767-300 fleet.

So future order tranches could be the A321-200neo and/or the 737-9.


User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 21 hours ago) and read 16548 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 8):
But Delta´s A32x fleet is getting very old as well and they must have some of the oldest A320s flying around. The A320 while being a one of the best aircraft ever build it is not build to last as long as a Dc 9

When Delta starts retiring the oldest A320's, will the pilots fly back in a DC-9?


User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 15874 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
There are presently no plans to add AVOD to any existing domestic aircraft other than the 753s. Of course, those plans may change in the future, but don't count on it anytime soon.

Interesting. I thought DL had announced adding AVOD on all mainline aircraft except the MD-88's? Did they cancel those plans?


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 15754 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 16):
Interesting. I thought DL had announced adding AVOD on all mainline aircraft except the MD-88's? Did they cancel those plans?

For now, yes, due to high fuel prices. The 753 is the exception, since they are supposed to replace the domestic 763s on many routes including Hawaii.

[Edited 2013-01-01 10:16:17]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 14913 times:

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 13):
It's not that they would replace a 50 seater with an A321; the way I understood it was that it was a (creative) way for DL to get rid of more 50 seat RJs by having someone buy them or buyout the leases. Similar to what is being done with Bombardier.

Sounds like an interesting idea, lets see what comes out of it.......



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 14341 times:

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 7):
Uh the A319/A320's already have wifi and the whole fleet will have VOD.

The ones I rode during the summer looked like hell inside and had the old NW seats, even in F. All DL did was throw some blue leather covers on the seats. If they are starting upgrades, then I applaud it.


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2009 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 14289 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 5):
Well if you believe some people here DL is looking to add basically every used plane on the planet to their fleet.

they will not be purchasing used iron manufactured in Toulouse.


User currently offlineNitrohelper From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 469 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 14105 times:

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 15):
will the pilots fly back in a DC-9?

I believe that I have heard something about that in some posts years ago... 
By the way when will NW/DL retire the DC-9s?
Back in 2007, I picked 2012 - thought that was the longest possible, missed that one...


User currently offlinexjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2471 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 13828 times:

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 21):
Back in 2007, I picked 2012 - thought that was the longest possible, missed that one...

Not by much. Seems they are going away quicker than expected. The -30s and -40s were retired fairly close after the merger and the -50s, while in actually in pretty decent shape, seem to be going away slowly but surely. I can't blame NW then and DL now to have them around after all these years, seeings how they are paid off and the only money put into them is repairs and fuel. Not a bad cost ratio really.

I actually like the prospect of the A321 with DL. If the above rumor about Airbus being able to find a home for the 50 seaters coupled with the ageing fleet of the A320 with DL, the A321 could be a great solution. The 738 and 739 fleet can primarily make up for the long haul fleet, but you have to remember the A321 can be a great replacement for the 757s for the high density short-medium haul markets (ie ATL/MSP/DTW/NYC-FLA markets). Retire the older 757s, and once DL narrows down the interiors of the 757s to 3 variations (as opposed to the 9 or 10 variations they have now), could be quite the change, and for the better.



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12173 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 13113 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Thread starter):
In the past the DL pilots have speculated about 773's addtional 747's,addional A330's and of coure the 787's which DL has ordered but never finalized.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

The B-787 order has been deferred until about 2020, it is finalized. I believe these will eventually be converted to the B-789 and/or B-7810, but the order is small right now at about 18 airplanes. When DL finally does take delivery, they will be the replacement for the A-332/3s

I don't see DL placing a NB order until late 2014 or sometime in 2015. DL did deferr the remaining NW orders for the A-319 and A-320 when the merger was complete (IIRC 7 total aircraft).

Doesn't DL have some A-320s parked? The NW A-32X fleet dates back to the mid 1990s, which mean the oldest airplanes are approaching 20 years old. I believe the newest A-32X was delivered to NW in 2007, making it 5 years old. DL will keep their MD-88/-90 (at least some of them) longer than that as well as all of their B-73G/Hs. DL kept their B-732/3s for 20 + years, and flew the cycles out of them with most of them flying 6-8 missions everyday. They kept their B-727s for about 25 years, and the DC-9 just keeps going and going. Can the A-32Xs fill those kinds of shoes for year and decades on end?

I see no need for DL to get A-321s, new or used unless they merge with someone who already has them.


User currently offlineasqx From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 618 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 12905 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
I believe the newest A-32X was delivered to NW in 2007, making it 5 years old.

The A320s date from August 1990 to August 2003 while the A319s date from June 1999 to November 2003.


25 max999 : I personally think DL won't get the A321 because Airbus won't offer the same level of discounts that DL got for the 739ER. I believe discounted 739ERs
26 Polot : DL pushed the 787s back to ~2020 themselves. Boeing just really wanted the order- it wasn't that long after the AA split order so they needed a good P
27 PSU.DTW.SCE : Bob, you know how it goes over on that forum. The rumors are almost as bad as a.net. I like how on one random post on 12/29, a person throws out the
28 bobloblaw : Fine, but what does the A321 have to do with any of that?
29 Deltal1011man : its as final as it can be. 787s will start coming in 2020. This has nothing to do with anything. All Delta has to do is say they want to add the 321
30 PSU.DTW.SCE : Just to clarify, there are no A319 or A320s in long-term storage, parked, or retired. There is at least 1 A319 and 1 A320 in short term storage for t
31 dlramp4life : I don't see it happening. Really no point... For now at least. Why should DL add yet another aircraft fleet to all a different variety of aircraft rig
32 yyz717 : DL will be heavy into adding 188 739ER's and 717's beginning in 2013 and lasting for several years, further worsening fleet "proliferation" in terms o
33 Post contains images BDL757 : LOL. I know, I was just stating that I had heard something about this too and that I thought it was amusing in the least. There's more to it: when I
34 Post contains links connies4ever : I would bet that some, perhaps a substantial number of these frames will wind up in Africa with small outfits. Lower wages being a factor. Some other
35 Deltal1011man : this is true, i mean none are WFU. NW had a few 320s they rejected the leases on in BK(like 3 i think and IIRC they all were broken up) and then I be
36 asaad11 : Does anyone see DL adding more used 753's to fleet? Are there even any out there to acquire?
37 GCT64 : Excepting UA's fleet, there are another 18 753s in Europe. DL would have to compromise on engine commonality to expand its fleet substantially as mos
38 bobnwa : If the 787 is as final as can be, then you should be able to post the full delivery schedule.
39 msp747 : I think the NW birds were the only 753's ever built with PW engines. All the other 753's were RR powered
40 KGRB : ALL non DL 757-300s are RR powered (including UA's). NW was the only airline to order the P&W version and those airframes are now, of course flyi
41 PIEAvantiP180 : That's almost impossible to determine for the airlines getting their planes in the next 2 years let alone 7 years out. I'm on my phone and can't look
42 Yukon880 : We should all be able to agree that DL was not a launch customer for the 787. DL did assume (and ammend) the 787 orders placed by the (planned) North
43 Burkhard : If you fly A319, A320 and A332 adding the A321 is not such a big deal. Delta is a big airline, where it may pay off better to have the best aircraft
44 Deltal1011man : IIRC Delta is the only carrier with 757-300s with Pratt 2000s. The rest of the world's fleet is RB211. (and you won't be seeing Delta add 57s with RB
45 Post contains images seabosdca : I don't see Delta adding A321s with the current engines. A321neos, on the other hand... there will have to be one more 757 replacement order at some p
46 Polot : I can only see them doing that if they can somehow get all other 753s out there- but UA might also be interested in any that come available. Aside fr
47 columba : Condor at one point wanted to sell their 757-330s but nobody was interested so they decided to keep them
48 seabosdca : They wouldn't need allof them, but they would need the Condor fleet, which is the biggest, to make such an acquisition make any sense. They very much
49 TrijetsRMissed : Actually eight NW A320s have been WFU and one A319 W/O, to date. Three of the A320 retirements occurred POST merger in Q4 2008.
50 Post contains images Yukon880 : Agreed. (Kindly pardon the extensive edit) Imagine the change of complexion this discussion would take if someone comes up with a Neo or Max-motor in
51 Post contains images BlueShamu330s : I don't think it's proprietary information that Delta is one of the airlines which has been in discussions with Airbus about a potential, heavier weig
52 Md88Captain : School house rumor from 2 months ago was a small order (20?) new A321 airframes. AB is to take 3 CRJ50's for every A321 delivered. The the A321's are
53 Polot : I have a hard time believing that Airbus would be interested in picking up 60 CRJs- trying to get rid of those (either by scrapping or finding anothe
54 Post contains images mayor : You know what they say..........there are lies, damn lies and pilot rumors
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