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Ryanair To Be Used For Official EU Flights  
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10138 times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...eland/2012/1227/1224328187646.html

quote:

Ryanair yesterday said the Government had accepted its offer of flights between Dublin and Charleroi airport, about 55km from Brussels city centre, for a “guaranteed” €49.99 one way.

The airline cited Office of Public Works figures from April 2012 which it claims showed the State paying an average of €350 per flight.

end quote

Good deal, short flight, so seat comfort doesn't matter anyway, and it saves us taxpayers 300 euro a passenger.
Even when you want to change date or time a new ticket for 49 euro is cheaper.

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9886 times:

The €350 average a flight is for the entire Irish Government's commercial flying and hence includes a huge amount of long haul that Ryanair simply does not do. The savings from this deal will be nowhere close to €300 a flight.


EI's fares BRU-DUB are often 51.99 so its a saving of €2 per seat - until they add in the costs of getting to CRL...


User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9684 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 1):
EI's fares BRU-DUB are often 51.99 so its a saving of €2 per seat - until they add in the costs of getting to CRL...

And don't forget the time cost. I have no idea what Irish civil servants earn, but let's use €12 per hour to value their time (This value is probably too low, but it's easy to calculate - 5 minutes is €1).

BRU to Brussels takes about 20 minutes. CRL to Brussels takes about 45 minutes.

That means that on each one-way journey, an additional 25 minutes of employee time is being burned on the trip to Charleroi. With our €12/hour valuation, this means that per one-way journey the extra cost is €5. €10 for a roundtrip.

That can add up to a lot of time wasted in transit, and thus a lot of money. And as I said, €12/hour is probably too low.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9423 times:

More like €30 an hour or higher at that level, albeit that's assuming they actually only worked their 37.5h/week and not the 40-50 that it usually works out at.

User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9252 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 1):
EI's fares BRU-DUB are often 51.99 so its a saving of €2 per seat - until they add in the costs of getting to CRL...

While you might "often" find those prices, they are not guaranteed and thus this deal WILL save money, like it or not.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlinedstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1477 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9189 times:

Civil servants have used Ryanair for years to Brussels. The big problem is trying to get to CRL if a meeting runs late, as they often do. A taxi to Crl quickly makes any saving vanish over using BRU.

User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16282 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9168 times:

This is symbolically "good" in that it shows a government serious about managing down travel costs for civil servants.

The more fundamental question is whether all this travel is needed between DUB and BRU. Hopefully someone is looking at reducing the # flights as well as the cost/flight.

Tele-conferencing and good ole conference calls can work wonders in reducing travel.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinedstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1477 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9064 times:

If there is a meeting, you need at least one delegate. More for some issues and also someone from the EU Presidency to chair. That need is met most usually from Ireland, or from one of the few based officials.
Ireland chairs the Council at present.

Not easy to reduce that burden


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7538 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8999 times:

Sorry to be pedantic but this has nothing to do with the EU (as the thread title states) or the EC. It is about Irish Government travel between Dublin and Brussels.

The EU rule for MEPs and EU staff travel is that air fares, be they Y or C class, will be reimbursed. Of course this does not stop them travelling by FR via CRL. However as it is neither the quickest nor the most convenient route one suspects that it will not be used much by those whose travelling expenses are refunded through the EU. And I cannot see the EC changing its reimbursement rules for travel between Brussels and Ireland while not changing them for the rest of the EU.


User currently offlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8751 times:

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 4):
While you might "often" find those prices, they are not guaranteed and thus this deal WILL save money, like it or not.

Assuming that the actual and opportunity costs of using CRL over BRU are less than the price difference which, realistically, they're *never* going to be.

This is relying on a faulty assumption that the headline figure is the only price. Its not.


User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1051 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8483 times:

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
Good deal, short flight, so seat comfort doesn't matter anyway, and it saves us taxpayers 300 euro a passenger.
Even when you want to change date or time a new ticket for 49 euro is cheaper.

Ryan has benefited from European tax payers money that they gave as aid to regional governments for so long... Talking about irony at it's best!

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 6):
The more fundamental question is whether all this travel is needed between DUB and BRU. Hopefully someone is looking at reducing the # flights as well as the cost/flight.

  
Although, as has been stated before, that's something the EU must look into as a whole.

I'd really love to know what EI has offered, seriously!



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7307 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 9):
This is relying on a faulty assumption that the headline figure is the only price. Its not.

So you are claiming that this "guarantee" is just PR? I would assume that if they sign a government contract, that they would not be able to get more money out of this deal.
At least for a certain allotment of seats.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of FR, but I fail to see how this deal, even with the opportunity costs associated, will cost the taxpayers more money than flying the people on EI.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9393 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7249 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 2):

That means that on each one-way journey, an additional 25 minutes of employee time is being burned on the trip to Charleroi. With our €12/hour valuation, this means that per one-way journey the extra cost is €5. €10 for a roundtrip.

No employee in the EU qualified for travel makes 12€ an hour, better said, costs that little. Even a proposed minimum wage in germany of € 8,50 would cost the employer at least € 12,75. A good number of employees in the EU and certainly those who have to travel earn over € 100K Assuming that they work soimething like 1500 hiurs p.a. plusw social costs, pension,, overead etc , you can do your onw math.

Check in times for FR are longer than those of regular carriers, meaning more time buried for nothing., Carry on is limited.

.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6877 times:

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 11):
So you are claiming that this "guarantee" is just PR? I would assume that if they sign a government contract, that they would not be able to get more money out of this deal.

Yes, its just PR guff. They haven't signed a minimum seat contract so they're not assured of getting a penny. Unless EI suddenly decide that they're going to charge €200 average fares I can't see this being used often as it won't actually save money


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4004 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6842 times:
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Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 4):
they are not guaranteed and thus this deal WILL save money, like it or not.

We don't know whether Aer Lingus submitted a bid with guaranteed price or not. We don't know whether the not negligible cost of getting to CRL from the EU was properly accounted for or not.

Bottom line, we don't know whether this particular deal is a good one for the Irish government. On the one hand, we should hope so, on the other, it wouldn't be the first time, in government or industry, that the decision-makers are not aware of all the conditions of the market. For all we know, whoever decided thought that Brussels South (CRL) can't be that different than Brussels International (BRU) access-wise...



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5712 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5969 times:

All MEPs should be forced to use exclusively Ryanair for their flights between Brussels and Strasbourg.
Since not even 1.2 million signatures under the One Seat petition did convince them about the futility of the European Parliament circus traveling back and forth between Brussels and Strasbourg, maybe the experience of FR "hospitality" would.


User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
No employee in the EU qualified for travel makes 12€ an hour, better said, costs that little. Even a proposed minimum wage in germany of € 8,50 would cost the employer at least € 12,75. A good number of employees in the EU and certainly those who have to travel earn over € 100K Assuming that they work soimething like 1500 hiurs p.a. plusw social costs, pension,, overead etc , you can do your onw math.

I know. As I said, I used €12/hour because it was easy to calculate with. The real number is bound to be much, much higher, and exposes the false economy that is being applied here.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineloveofflying From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3961 times:

What I don't understand if whether MEPs have to use the Ryanair flights or if it's just an option?! As far as I understand it's just a good option when EI is super expensive, but they aren't forced to fly FR. Correct?


Fly the DC10 before you can't!
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3221 times:

Quoting loveofflying (Reply 17):
What I don't understand if whether MEPs have to use the Ryanair flights or if it's just an option?! As far as I understand it's just a good option when EI is super expensive, but they aren't forced to fly FR. Correct?

The link in the opening post is clear. FR is one of the airlines which can be used for governement travel.

BTW what are the frequencies on CRL-DUB (FR) and BRU-DUB (EI)?


User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 18):
BTW what are the frequencies on CRL-DUB (FR) and BRU-DUB (EI)?

Aer Lingus 3 daily - First flight arrives in BRU at 09:25 and last departs 21:10.

Ryanair 2 daily - First flight arrives in CRL at 09:05 and last departs 20:35.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7538 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

Quoting loveofflying (Reply 17):
What I don't understand if whether MEPs have to use the Ryanair flights or if it's just an option?!

See Reply 8. The reimbursement of the travel expenses of Irish MEPs is nothing to do with the Irish Government. It is everything to do with the EC. In this respecrt the title of this thread is a little deceptive. It should be "Ryanair To Be Used For Official Irish Government Flights".

So it is EC Rules that apply to MEPs. These rules allow MEPs to choose and make their own travel arrangements and to fully reimburse those costs whether or not a flight is C or Y class, whether the ticket is fully transferable or non-tranferrable.

The rules under which reimbursement by the EC is currently made were introduced in July 2009. Before that the reimbursement of "expenses" was a gravy train for MEPs being a large, fixed amount variable with the distance between the MEP's home and either Brussels or Strasdbourg. It was large enough to allow all MEP's to make a significant (tax free?) profit however they chose to travel.

Having changed the rules in 2009 a vote In April 2011 in the European Paliament rejected a proposal that would require MEP's to fly Economy and not Club Class:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ating-salaries-and-allowances.html

Despite this some do travel Y Class. As an example British MEP Chris Davies, who lives near Manchester, reports that he claims %u20AC200 for a return trip to Brussels flying non-tranferable Y Class:

http://chrisdaviesmep.org.uk/?page_id=226

However since CRL is arguably less convenient to travel to and from than BRU and since MEPs do not have to pay their own fares I cannot see many making the additional effort to travel via CRL.


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