JoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 227 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14742 times:
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 801 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14729 times:
Horrible to see somebody so young go. May she RIP and at least have gone peacefully
Irishpower From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12104 times:
I know we don't know the cause of death but I'm wondering if it could be another case of DVT.
raffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1651 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12008 times:
Very sad about this death. Could have been DVT, or a heart condition etc.
Must be very frustrating for the crew and passengers onboard who couldn't do anything to help this poor woman.
polnebmit From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 72 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11054 times:
According to FlightAware, it seems that their original intent was to land in MSY but instead went to IAH. Probably IAH had better support for the circumstances at hand.
Most of the time, when there is a death on board an a/c. The a/c has to be grounded, the crew has to be questioned. If there was reasonable cause to call in detectives they may have done so. This was also an International flight. Could it be, she was running drugs, internally? And one of the items she swallowed broke open? Or it could have been DVT (deep vein thrombosis) which has been known to kill a person, regardless of age. After the autopsy we will have a better idea as to what happened. As for the reason to not divert to MSY and go to IAH. Their FIS could likely process the passengers faster, and there are better options for rebooking purposes.
rwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2250 posts, RR: 7 Reply 7, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10048 times:
Why not just continue on to DFW? Why stop at IAH? Was there a legal reason to stop at IAH and not to continue on to DFW? Continuing on to DFW would've been a LOT more convenient to the other 219 passengers who did NOT die and to the relatives/friends of the woman who did. Someone please explain to me the reasoning behind stopping at IAH instead of continuing on to DFW. I see no logic in this.
The early bird gets the worm, BUT...the second mouse gets the cheese!
Polot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1589 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9630 times:
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 7): Why not just continue on to DFW? Why stop at IAH? Was there a legal reason to stop at IAH and not to continue on to DFW? Continuing on to DFW would've been a LOT more convenient to the other 219 passengers who did NOT die and to the relatives/friends of the woman who did. Someone please explain to me the reasoning behind stopping at IAH instead of continuing on to DFW. I see no logic in this.
We don't know when exactly she died. She could have died during the taxi from the runway to wherever the plane parked- a little late to make the decision to continue to DFW.
rwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2250 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9493 times:
Quoting Polot (Reply 9): We don't know when exactly she died. She could have died during the taxi from the runway to wherever the plane parked- a little late to make the decision to continue to DFW.
A little EARLY to divert to IAH if she hadn't died yet.
The early bird gets the worm, BUT...the second mouse gets the cheese!
Polot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1589 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9431 times:
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 10): A little EARLY to divert to IAH if she hadn't died yet.
So now you are saying that they should have diverted to IAH only if she was dead? An incredibly ill passenger doesn't warrant a diversion? I doubt she was completely fine and then just suddenly slumped over dead.
USAirways757 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 5 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9139 times:
Sad, my condolences go out to her family, but it's not that uncommon for a passenger to die inflight. A few stories like this pop up each year.
rwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2250 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8709 times:
Quoting Polot (Reply 11): So now you are saying that they should have diverted to IAH only if she was dead?
WHAT??? I'm saying they shouldn't have diverted AT ALL!
Quoting Polot (Reply 11): An incredibly ill passenger doesn't warrant a diversion? I doubt she was completely fine and then just suddenly slumped over dead.
Had one of the suggested 'drug capsules' burst, then that would've been precisley the case. Aren't they required to stop at the nearest airport? Then why not MSY? It's closer than IAH. And if she's dead, why divert?
The early bird gets the worm, BUT...the second mouse gets the cheese!
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2377 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8433 times:
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 13): Had one of the suggested 'drug capsules' burst, then that would've been precisley the case. Aren't they required to stop at the nearest airport? Then why not MSY? It's closer than IAH. And if she's dead, why divert?
The only time a crew is "required" to land at the nearest suitable airport is when an engine fails on a twin-engine airplane. It's also highly recommend in the case of unidentified smoke or fume smells. Otherwise it's the Captain's descretion where to land. I wasn't there so I don't know what was discussed and what the crews' thought process was. Presumably the Captain and company dispatch, and maybe ATC, had a valid reason to go into IAH rather than MSY.
Who knows, maybe they could get down to IAH quicker; maybe the woman had a medical condition in which IAH was better equipped to handle; maybe the Captain felt the weather at MSY wasn't suitable. Who knows? I'm sure the captain had a very good reason to choose IAH.
Do we know if the woman was dead? Again, I wasn't there but assume the crew had a very valid reason to divert rather than continue to DFW.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4313 posts, RR: 36 Reply 16, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8116 times:
Whenever there is a medical emergency on board, the crew, through their Flight Dispatch, phone patches to MedLink or StatMD, or any of such related services.
Then, with the given medical information, and conferring with Flight Dispatch and the Systems Operational Control of the airline ... they decide where the airplane is best to go, that suggestion is given to the Captain where he usually agrees.
It is not always the closest airport, it is the closest airport with the required medical facilities for that medical condition, and the closest airport that can handle that particular aircraft. Also, when able, the airline also considers the best way not to impact the rest of the passengers and the operation.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2377 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7451 times:
Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 8): Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 6):
Could it be, she was running drugs, internally?
I'd say her age and point of origin are a valid enough reason to suspect something along those lines.
That is a very unfair assumption. Maybe she was an upstanding law abiding citizen and unfortunately had an undetected heart condition, for example. It's very disrespectful to her and the family to assume she was committing a crime just because she was a young woman and from Latin America, before the facts are known.
If the police determine such, only then we can suspect something along those lines.
That's about as accurate as assuming I was involved in the last Seattle drive-by shooting because I'm male and live within 15 miles away (along with 1 million other people).
nclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 330 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6900 times:
Quoting raffik (Reply 4): Very sad about this death. Could have been DVT, or a heart condition etc.
Must be very frustrating for the crew and passengers onboard who couldn't do anything to help this poor woman.
...or a burst drugs package. All too common on these routes...
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2377 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6612 times:
Quoting nclmedic (Reply 18): ...or a burst drugs package. All too common on these routes...
Again, a highly inappropriate stereotype without knowing the facts. How would you like it if your brother died from something like a heart condition, and someone said, "Well, he's from London so he must have died from AIDS from being a male prostitute."?
Your guys' statements are about the same equivalent. Unless of course, you guys are Houston Police Detectives and know something factual that we don't know yet.
SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 469 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6184 times:
So sad, my condolences.
Quoting Irishpower (Reply 3): I know we don't know the cause of death but I'm wondering if it could be another case of DVT.
Quoting raffik (Reply 4): Very sad about this death. Could have been DVT, or a heart condition etc.
I actually had my first (hope last) DVT on new year's two days ago. Flying from Europe (with not much sleep after New Year's), in Economy (though with a good pitch). I slept during almost the whole flight, and about four or five hours after I landed, I just couldn't move my right leg... so I spent my 2nd night in 2013 in an emergency room in Manhattan. It has only been tonight that I have slept in a real bed in 2013! And I am young, relatively fit, not huge (I am 6ft and 175 lbs), hadn't drunk much alcohol and I usually move around in long flights (and I have flown long-haul in New Year's a few times during the last few years, so it is not even the 1st time I do a long flight after New Year's celebrations), probably a bad position during sleep.
Quoting nclmedic (Reply 18): ...or a burst drugs package. All too common on these routes...
Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 8): I'd say her age and point of origin are a valid enough reason to suspect something along those lines.
I don't have words (well I do have but will not write them down here) to describe those comments. I hope they will be removed.
Btw just talking about cliches I doubt that an student from Brazil in the US is your typical drug smuggler... not everybody from Brazil is a prostitute or a drug dealer, believe it or not.
Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 20): That is neither a well-known stereotype nor a well-known occurance in international air travel. Using young women to smuggle drugs is.
I guess if this would be a German woman flying with her family after spending the "Reveillon" in Copacabana, in a GIG-FRA flight, would you dare to make the same sick assumptions?
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 19): Again, a highly inappropriate stereotype without knowing the facts. How would you like it if your brother died from something like a heart condition, and someone said, "Well, he's from London so he must have died from AIDS from being a male prostitute."?
Your guys' statements are about the same equivalent. Unless of course, you guys are Houston Police Detectives and know something factual that we don't know yet.
More than 70,000 people a day pass through Brazil’s São Paulo Guarulhos International airport. And every day, five of them are arrested for drugs trafficking. Many of them are women; drug mules taking their chances at what has become the main exit point for people carrying cocaine from South America to the rest of the world. With flight connections to 53 countries, the airport is well positioned to supply the increasing global demand for cocaine.
25 BoeingGuy: Okay, on average 1 in every 14,000 people day leaving from GRU are trafficking drugs, so odds are good the dead woman was guilty before proven innoce
26 ushermittwoch: Yes, because all of them get caught. That's why this practice is still in place, because the drug lords want all of their drugs confiscated...
27 rwy04lga: Well, if it looks('fits the stereotype') like a drug mule and dies('fits the stereotype') like a drug mule....then... It's not like we're flashing her
28 tp1040: Looking at flightaware the flight originally diverted to MSY, then shortly thereafter diverted to IAH. Who knows why, but Houston has some of the best
29 AR385: While this is obviously not the case with this poor young lady, traffickers usually send three mules per flight. Two for actually carrying the goods,
30 Wingtips56: It doesn't appear MSY would have US Customs facilities open at that hour (if at all nowadays for a commercial flight). If the flight would have requir
31 BoeingGuy: If it were enough of an emergency that wouldn't be a factor. Again, that was probably one factor in the Captain's decision making but not the only. I
32 ltbewr: As with airplane crashes, several factors or a very simple one could be the cause of this woman's death. She could have had a DVT clot, an unknown hea
33 jmc1975: What was the reg. number of the AA 777?
34 zrs70: So interesting how different reactions can be! Inflight Death On LH 450 FRA-LAX, 7/28/07 (by Zrs70 Jul 29 2007 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=3533439&
35 ushermittwoch: Not really, since FRA-LAX is not really a huge drug mule route. Plus, the woman was 92, quite normal to die at that age, especially if you are alread
37 Polot: AKA N760AN for those of us who don't work for AA and know their internal fleet numbers.
38 71Zulu: rzjets.net is a good site for decoding AA fleet numbers.
39 RussianJet: That's a serious overreaction. 25-yr-olds don't usually drop dead on planes, and it's a valid theory. They didn't suggest that all young females from
40 VC10er: I am an American and I split my life between NYC and Rio. I too am very sensitive about people who say or repeat negatives about Brazil, in my opinio
41 DocLightning: How do you know she didn't? Sudden death does occur in young people. She could have had a viral myocarditis or an underlying fatal arrhythmia or thro
42 rwy04lga: I should've known that, having seen 'Maria, Full of Grace'. (And the theatre I saw it in...82nd just S of Roosevelt..is actually in the movie!)
43 UALWN: I don't get this. She looks like a drug mule because she was a 25 yo woman? So my daughter, 23, also looks like a drug mule? She died like a drug mul
44 rwy04lga: Good news, you don't have to 'get it'.
45 UALWN: It was just a polite way of saying that what you wrote doesn't make any sense. But I guess you didn't "get it"...
46 RussianJet: Yup. And the fact is that however great South America is, it's the world's greatest cocaine source. Welcome to the pulmonary embolism club. Hope it's
47 DocLightning: Never trust a movie death scene. Remember that scene in Pulp Fiction with the epinephrine shot to the heart? Yeah, that's absolute bullstool. Yet a l
48 777STL: I don't think it is. 25 year olds typically don't randomly drop dead without a valid reason. It's a logical assumption to make, like it or not, espec
49 UALWN: It is not. I bet having an accident while carrying drug inside their bodies is not the first cause of unexpected death for 25 year old Brazilian fema
50 FlyingSicilian: I'll hazard a guess it is in the top 3 for those on long haul flights. anyone have numbers? As others have noted it is not about stereotypes but putt
51 UALWN: And I'd bet the sample is too small to draw any conclusions.
52 BA0197: I have been a great admirer of airliners.net for quite some time now. It is always interesting to see how an argument pans out on here. I was quite ex
53 FlyingSicilian: Great write-up albeit as you note under sad circumstances. Thank you for providing more information too which hopefully will calm some folks down!
54 mesaflyguy: Stupid question and pardon my utter obliviousness, but is the blood clot a case of DVT?
55 BA0197: The medics of course did not have time to go into details with the AA agents; they simply told our supervisor at that time that they suspected the de
56 DocLightning: And, especially in the case of an untimely/sudden/unexplained death, coroner's reports can take weeks to months to be released and may or may not be
57 mesaflyguy: Thanks, yeah I imagine discussing this stuff with the AA employees isn't the EMTs' first priority.
58 spacecadet: Believe it or not, they drop dead randomly a lot more often than they drop dead from carrying drugs inside their rectum. If we're talking strictly pe
59 type-rated: A few years ago I had a cousin die from DVT. She had made a flight LHR-ORD and after she was finished up with customs she told her parents she "didn't
60 kgaiflyer: Yes. Remember the award-winning movie on the subject? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Full_of_Grace
61 toobz: Folks nobody said she died from trafficking drugs...it was a possible suggestion. Which I don't find to be that outrageous. It was possible. Touchy to
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