apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3640 posts, RR: 6 Posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5193 times:
This was in another thread so I don't have a link to it. Anyways....WN is going to open a Crew Base for the WN side in ATL, and the plan is going to be to eventually transition the 737-800's out of the FL fleet into the WN fleet, as that happens, the FL guys will be displaced and will be replaced by WN guys who can now bid ATL, until the SLI happens. (This is the way I understand it). Once the 737's have been converted and the 717's shipped off to DL, WN is going to build up the ATL domicile into a domicile much like others in its system.
I only mention this because this should dispel the rumors that WN is going to greatly reduce ATL. It is certainly going to be no DL obviously, but I think a better comparison may be the WN operation at LAX for a relative size that we are looking at.
sdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 188 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5161 times:
Interesting tidbit!
Quoting apodino (Thread starter): WN is going to open a Crew Base for the WN side in ATL, and the plan is going to be to eventually transition the 737-800's out of the FL fleet into the WN fleet
I'm assuming you mean 737-700, which would leave the 717 as FL's sole aircraft.
Quoting apodino (Thread starter): the FL guys will be displaced and will be replaced by WN guys who can now bid ATL
Where will they be displaced to? Are they being converted to WN slowly, or must they bid at other FL bases (I have no idea what they are...BWI/MKE/MCO?)
iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4098 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5145 times:
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Quoting apodino (Thread starter): plan is going to be to eventually transition the 737-800's out of the FL fleet into the WN fleet,
Huh?? There are no FL branded 737-800's?
Quoting apodino (Thread starter):
I only mention this because this should dispel the rumors that WN is going to greatly reduce ATL. It is certainly going to be no DL obviously, but I think a better comparison may be the WN operation at LAX for a relative size that we are
If WN is opening a base in ATL I think we all can expect a decent sized operation there now. LAX sized is probably a good bet, or similar to SAN/OAK.
ouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4005 posts, RR: 23 Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4991 times:
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 1): Where will they be displaced to? Are they being converted to WN slowly, or must they bid at other FL bases (I have no idea what they are...BWI/MKE/MCO?)
Crews are being transitioned to WN already. So they aren't being left behind in the FL system. The process has them all going through WN training, including the typical new hire stuff (FLY class).
Quoting iowaman (Reply 2): Huh?? There are no FL branded 737-800's?
I'm sure it was just a typo.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 2): If WN is opening a base in ATL I think we all can expect a decent sized operation there now. LAX sized is probably a good bet, or similar to SAN/OAK.
SAN is roughly 20 departures smaller than OAK, so might not be a good example. I would think somewhere between OAK and HOU would be a good bet.
Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6137 posts, RR: 13 Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4935 times:
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 1): I'm assuming you mean 737-700, which would leave the 717 as FL's sole aircraft.
I'm not sure the 717s are staying in ATL. If you look at their recent schedule changes, they have been moving more and more FL flying into Florida non-stops even if it means converting WN routes to FL. I think we will see more of that and we might even see ATL cutover to all WN in early 2014 (except for some Florida stuff), leaving FL flying Florida point-to-point.
Atlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4747 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 4): WN in early 2014 (except for some Florida stuff), leaving FL flying Florida point-to-point.
Everything should be done by Jan or very early 2015. The last things left will be International and more then likely a hand full of markets to connct to that
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 3): Crews are being transitioned to WN already. So they aren't being left behind in the FL system. The process has them all going through WN training, including the typical new hire stuff (FLY class).
The crews are transitioning over at a very very slow pace. It will not be till 2014 that their should be a mass cross over of crews. As for the cabin crew side will be done by Jan 2. 2015.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
ouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4005 posts, RR: 23 Reply 6, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4378 times:
Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 5): The crews are transitioning over at a very very slow pace. It will not be till 2014 that their should be a mass cross over of crews. As for the cabin crew side will be done by Jan 2. 2015.
Yeah I knew it wasn't extremely fast, but I just wanted to point out that it was already in progress (and has been for at least a year now).
Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
Deltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8590 posts, RR: 8 Reply 7, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4271 times:
Quoting apodino (Thread starter): but I think a better comparison may be the WN operation at LAX for a relative size that we are looking at.
two things, its not a rumor. FL/WN has cut back in ATL. Thats a fact. IIRC FL peaked in ATL at ~230 flights and they are down to around 160. Pretty good cutting.
and If it were to become LAX size then your talking about cutting ~60 more flights(WN has ~110 flights from LA and ~160 from ATL) which i would call a pretty big cut.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
ouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4005 posts, RR: 23 Reply 8, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4067 times:
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 7): two things, its not a rumor. FL/WN has cut back in ATL. Thats a fact. IIRC FL peaked in ATL at ~230 flights and they are down to around 160. Pretty good cutting.
If the latest fact sheet is correct, we are looking at 169 departures from ATL. Also have to add into that the 28 flights now operated directly on WN metal. So if we are going to correctly and accurately compare numbers, that would put it at 197 flights a day. Considering the number of cities that have been dropped from the FL network and not transitioned, that isn't too bad. I still see it coming down a bit more as it is transitioned to a more traditional WN focus operation.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 7): and If it were to become LAX size then your talking about cutting ~60 more flights(WN has ~110 flights from LA and ~160 from ATL) which i would call a pretty big cut.
LAX size is way too drastic IMO. Between OAK and HOU are better bets and possibly closer to HOU in those numbers. Which if that's the case, still looking at a 40 flight reduction. Of course we really don't know (publicly) where the chips will fall with existing FL ATL flights and how WN markets might be connected to ATL post-transition.
Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
Deltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8590 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4061 times:
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 8):
LAX size is way too drastic IMO. Between OAK and HOU are better bets and possibly closer to HOU in those numbers. Which if that's the case, still looking at a 40 flight reduction. Of course we really don't know (publicly) where the chips will fall with existing FL ATL flights and how WN markets might be connected to ATL post-transition.
pretty much WN isn't going to cut into profitable flying.
not idea how much they have of that in ATL....
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 8):
If the latest fact sheet is correct, we are looking at 169 departures from ATL. Also have to add into that the 28 flights now operated directly on WN metal. So if we are going to correctly and accurately compare numbers, that would put it at 197 flights a day. Considering the number of cities that have been dropped from the FL network and not transitioned, that isn't too bad. I still see it coming down a bit more as it is transitioned to a more traditional WN focus operation.
Ah sorry, thought I saw somewhere they were down to 160-170 total (for WN/FL)
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
ouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4005 posts, RR: 23 Reply 10, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3760 times:
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9): pretty much WN isn't going to cut into profitable flying.
not idea how much they have of that in ATL....
Right. Which is why I think we won't see nearly as much Florida service as there has been under FL. Much more P2P connections with business centers.
Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2856 times:
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 10): Right. Which is why I think we won't see nearly as much Florida service as there has been under FL. Much more P2P connections with business centers.
I'm just curious how they are going to service on some of the medium haul ATL routes, where WN isn't the leading carrier in the market on the other side either:
ATL-LGA: DL has 16x daily, hourly, mainline and strong hub and focus on each side, plus offers EWR and JFK as a NYC alternative for business pax. AA serves also an alternative at LGA for business pax.
ATL-PHL: DL, and US
ATL-BOS: DL, and WN flying over BWI-PVD/BOS/MHT
And shorter, but also possibly weak one:
ATL-RDU: DL (strong), and RDU business pax typically loyal to DL or AA. Highest frequency WN offers at RDU is RDU-MDW at 4x daily but Chicago service maybe more fragmented across business travelers, and WN can offer more connections within its own network from MDW.
iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4098 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1759 times:
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Quoting Flytravel (Reply 12): I'm just curious how they are going to service on some of the medium haul ATL routes, where WN isn't the leading carrier in the market on the other side either:
ATL-LGA: DL has 16x daily, hourly, mainline and strong hub and focus on each side, plus offers EWR and JFK as a NYC alternative for business pax. AA serves also an alternative at LGA for business pax.
ATL-PHL: DL, and US
ATL-BOS: DL, and WN flying over BWI-PVD/BOS/MHT
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 12): And shorter, but also possibly weak one:
ATL-RDU: DL (strong), and RDU business pax typically loyal to DL or AA. Highest frequency WN offers at RDU is RDU-MDW at 4x daily but Chicago service maybe more fragmented across business travelers, and WN can offer more connections within its own network from MDW.
I wonder about those markets too. It's fairly predictable the usual WN "focus cities" will be served, but these other markets are questionable. ATL-MSP, PIT, and IND are also questionable in my opinion as well.
surfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2588 posts, RR: 31 Reply 14, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1629 times:
I don't think anyone seriously expected WN to shut down the whole ATL base and force virtually all the FL people to move to (or commute to) the WN bases. Such a move would sour employee relations and cause far more trouble than it would ever be worth.
Yes, hopefully this will end the talk of WN slashing ATL down to a mere 15-20 flight spoke. The delayed codeshare implementation may be causing new flights like ATL-SDF/ORF to struggle now, but even those should do fine when the merger is all said and done. It's not much different from the infamous FL DSM flights that preceded the much more successful WN flights..
ATL has or soon will lose service to smaller, weaker spokes - many of which were never commercially viable in the first place, relying on hefty local subsidies (ACY, ICT, BKG, etc.) or very low-yielding connecting traffic rather than more profitable O&D (BMI, FNT, ROC, etc.). Obviously FL-only routes to places like FLL, MCI, STL, and TPA won't be going anywhere, and redundant FL frequencies to the likes of MDW, DEN, BWI, etc. will eventually transition to WN metal as well. I would think most of the remaining FL routes out of ATL will continue, and who knows, we could even see more WN-only spokes added to ATL - BDL, LIT, SAN, CLE, etc. The operation will be much different than the FL days, where connecting traffic was king and the 717s were ideally suited for high frequency short haul ops. WN will offer fewer flights (typically on larger aircraft) targeted primarily at O&D.
Bottom line: ATL isn't going anywhere. WN bought FL for several reasons, and one of them was ATL - by far the largest domestic market they didn't serve before the acquisition.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4681 posts, RR: 23 Reply 15, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1590 times:
ATL for WN will be very different than ATL for FL. For one thing there is little to no need for ATL serving as a connecting point to Florida, as WN has been overflying ATL for YEARS. ATL will be a big station for WN, but it can't and wont be the important station it was for FL. Too many other options. Don't even think that ATL for WN will be as important as at least a dozen other stations.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1398 times:
Quoting iowaman (Reply 13): I wonder about those markets too. It's fairly predictable the usual WN "focus cities" will be served, but these other markets are questionable. ATL-MSP, PIT, and IND are also questionable in my opinion as well.
Maybe it would hedge BNA in case ATL business routes don't work. Run a high frequency BNA-ATL for crew and connections, and add PIT, RIC, CLT, IAD, DAL, SFO, and maybe MKE, IND, PVD and BDL, and/or increase frequencies slightly to other major east markets from BNA.
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