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Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24786 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 24023 times:

Skymark Airlines today applied with the DOT for authority to offer scheduled service between between Japan and New York.

Skymark states is desires to introduce service between Tokyo Narita and New York JFK utilizing A380 aircraft during the second half of 2014.

Skymarks advises it request this relative early authorization for it to commence advance marketing and sales activities to position itself for the introduction of the planned low-cost service.

Additionally Skymark also states it is reviewing the opportunity for introduction of other US scheduled markets using its on order fleet of A330 and A380 aircraft and would apply for those separately.


Proposed schedule:

NRT-JFK 1030-1000
JFK-NRT 1200-1430+1


OST-2010-0096


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2926 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 23997 times:
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Interesting, I still never understood why Skymark ordered the a380. They seem like too small of an airline to warrant such a big plane. But, I guess if you tap into the right market, which JFK-TYO is probably a big-enough market for them, they can make some money.


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 23878 times:

Isn't Skymark planning to configure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?


Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 23768 times:

I'm sure there is demand if they price it appropriately.

User currently offlinekeuleatr72 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 23670 times:

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 2):
ure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?

IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats. I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.


User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 23631 times:
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Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 2):
Isn't Skymark planning to configure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?

nope, 394 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...ernational-expansion-update1-.html


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 23503 times:

Actually they have not decided on the capacity configuration -

Their application specifically states --
"The final seating configuration of each A380 in Skymark's fleet has not been determined. Skymark anticipates making a decision on the configuration by mid 2013."

If they are indeed pursuing a lower cost model for these flights, I would think they would have a relative dense configuration.


Also regarding the market - NYC-TYO has about 500,000 local annual O&D travelers.
Yes its a declining market (like much of US-Japan), but for the right price I am sure they should be able to stimulate demand.
With a cheap enough price NYC can be a wonderful shopping, or weekend trip for the Japanese, especially the younger crowd which would be more open to a LCC concept.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinejbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 23382 times:

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

I doubt Air Austral will ever take the a380. They couldn't take their last 772LR that went to Iraq instead.


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 23209 times:
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So basically they're going with NRT-JFK instead of NRT-LAX because Tokyo-L.A is saturated, but is not like NRT-JFK is under served either

well good luck to them


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 23024 times:

So with 10 A330s and 6 A380s on the way, what are the other markets do we think Skymark is looking at in the US?

I would think if they are indeed following a more LCC concept that HNL could be natural fit, using an A380 even.

Also something to West Coast either using the 330 or 380 would be a natural market from Japan.

Considering lack of tie-ins with other carriers or domestic feed at NRT, Skymark would need to focus and tap in to existing large markets for its long-haul aspirations.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 22981 times:

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats. I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

OK. Thanks.



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlinetravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 22932 times:

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats. I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

As LAXIntl said, if Skymark is going for the mass market budget traveler, they're going to have to configure the plane with way more than 400 seats. If AF can fit 516 seats on their A380, I would think Skymark would be able to put at least 550 if not 600+...

NYC-Tokyo seems like a tough market to break into for an airline that has little to no brand awareness in the US, and several entrenched competitors already serving it.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30526 posts, RR: 84
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 22843 times:
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Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats.

Their original suggested configuration was 114 Business Class and 280 Economy.


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 22547 times:

Call them Tokyo Tower Air.

Thank you and good night.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20342 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 22505 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
So with 10 A330s and 6 A380s on the way, what are the other markets do we think Skymark is looking at in the US?

KOA-TYO?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinespinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 22460 times:

They will have to offer pretty low fares to make this work. You get an awful lot of FF miles for a JFK-NRT routing, even for someone like myself who isn't fully married to my FF program.

User currently offlinemalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 22413 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Call them Tokyo Tower Air

lol! took me a second to notice :P I remember flying Tower Air and its 747 operation



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineMEL From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1098 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 21990 times:

I think the whole idea of Skymark operating A380s is extremely bizarre, especially if the A380 ends up having a large-sized premium cabin (more than 50 seats). I expect premium pax in Japan would have strong loyalty towards JL+NH, and 99% of premium pax (or all pax for that matter) in the US haven't even heard of Skymark.

Didn't the company even decide to shut down its Osaka Kansai operation? They can't even make a market the size of Osaka work?

Hawaii-Tokyo is probably the only market I think might work for Skymark, with A330-300 aircraft in an "Air Asia X-type" configuration.



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User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 21706 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
With a cheap enough price NYC can be a wonderful shopping, or weekend trip for the Japanese, especially the younger crowd which would be more open to a LCC concept.

One of the largest travel agencies in Japan, H.I.S, has a ~30% stake in Skymark, so that is probably the only leg standing under the table of their business plan. But Japanese consumers are increasingly moving away from consolidators in recent years, so this doesn't seem like a sure bet at all.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Thank you and good night.

Basically, yes. The Japanese business press basically thinks Nishikubo-san, Skymark's founder and leader, is out of his friggin mind.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 880 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21465 times:

This has train wreck written all over it. Business travelers are going to stick with NH, JL, UA DL etc who can offer them an expanded network and perks. That leaves the low yield budget traveler. I wish them luck - they are going to need every bit of it.

User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1985 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21339 times:

Would that be interested in to know how much the airfare is!!


The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7174 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21312 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Skymark states is desires to introduce service between Tokyo Narita and New York JFK utilizing A380 aircraft during the second half of 2014.

   buddy of mine is currently training to be an A380 pilot and he said that he should be taking the 380 to JFK for "proving routes" once they get it delivered. It should be the first routes utilized by Skymark's A380s.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 2):
Isn't Skymark planning to configure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?
Quoting VCy (Reply 5):
nope, 394

They may be a LCC but they are marketing this as the most luxurious route to the US. I'm not sure how well this is going to do, but the Japanese business community seems enthused about it. I hope the price is right; I'm currently doing research right now on how much this is going to be. Obviously Skymark is not allowed marketing a price until the DOT gives them permission.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21270 times:

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

They have also chosen to cancel those orders.  



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4848 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21188 times:

My money is on Skymark going belly up... Either JL or NH will pick up the slack & probably keep the A380s and sell off the A330s considering neither operator has the type in their fleet...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20707 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):

I thought it was going to be an all Y+ product when they first announced it? Either way its the lowest density A380 planned yet.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
25 PHX787 : You guys forget that Skymark is probably the most popular LCC in Japan. A lot of people are complaining that NH and JL are wayyyyyyyy too expensive,
26 phxa340 : We're not forgetting anything , an LCC flying an A380 with sub 450 seats is suicide. By your logic that popularity equals profits , Virgin America sh
27 Post contains images airbazar : Their biggest investor is a Japanese travel company. They intende to offer long haul low cost service. If they do it as part of packaged tours and le
28 Polot : If you are going to do something like that might as well make MCO a tag on from JFK (so in other words NRT-JFK-MCO-JFK-NRT), not a triangle route. Yo
29 Aaron747 : They were only growing the last couple of years because of the strong yen. Now it's heading north again. Travel agencies as a whole have been struggl
30 PHX787 : Well my contacts are a variety of people, not just college students. A buddy of mine works for a trading company in Nagoya and told me every time he
31 spacecadet : I would think awareness in the US is not really a factor. They're a Japanese airline and their primary market will be Japanese travelers in both dire
32 PHX787 : This is the zinger for my friends here in the US: HIS is what nearly ALL of my Japanese friends have used to get back and forth between Japan and the
33 Superfly : Wouldn't SFO and LAX be a better market for budget travellers to & from Japan? Tower Air used old planes. Although I never flew them, all the com
34 lightsaber : I would lower the bar to 450 as the minimum, but I agree that Skymark must go dense or go home. The only similarity is that Skymark also has VLAs. Sk
35 PHX787 : Skymark is intending on sending the 380 to LAX and the 330 to SFO.
36 Post contains images phxa340 : You here lots of rumors apparently , I'm still waiting for your last one to come true of DL buying TN
37 Post contains images PHX787 : I was never expecting that to actually happen. As I stated countless times in that thread, I thought it was so crazy that I had to share it. Either w
38 Aaron747 : LOL - my relatives from CA would be among those always confused about the meals. I always bring them over on NH. Right, so if his company does OK and
39 PHX787 : Which sortof brings my point too. Most of my Japanese friends have responded with a "yes" to if they would fly Skymark if their service was good. One
40 ikramerica : Tower Air was started in conjunction with an American based Isreal tour operation and didn't have new planes, they certainly weren't ancient in 1983
41 Post contains links PHX787 : Not so fast here: Sure BC is associated with H.I.S., but H.I.S. is a very diverse group too. They're not a tour guide group entirely. even though the
42 TWA772LR : If Skymarks plan doesn't work, looks like we may have the first used A380s pop up on the market pretty soon...
43 bthebest : If they did something like 94 Business (top deck, a la KE) and 427 (main deck, a la EK) I think they could make it work. Splitting the decks complete
44 BlueSky1976 : On one hand, it is difficult to argue with those, who believe Skymark launching their service to New York with A380 is too much. On the other hand - r
45 SKAirbus : I thought Skymark wanted to use the aircraft on routes to Europe too, more specifically London. Considering no other long haul airline can really make
46 airbazar : Well, the point is that visiting multiple cities is a common characteristic of Japanese tourists and skymark can't sell tickets between 2 US cities,
47 gdg9 : In 2010 I snagged a $456 r/t with taxes EWR--DTW-NRT fare. Hadn't thought about going to Tokyo but the fare was so cheap how could I not? Wednesday t
48 lightsaber : What are the fares peak season? First, I didn't say they had nothing in common. I just do not see the level of commonality you wish to imply. Does Sk
49 AeroWesty : It wasn't even that good. The route was LGW-EWR, and with very low prices. Standby as low as £99. But VS entered a growing market, while from all ac
50 Aaron747 : to North America and Europe, the travel agencies usually offer a limited number of fares in the $850 - $1100 range at peak times, with JL and NH usua
51 phxa340 : I don't think anyone on here is saying the A380 is the problem but the company using it and how they are using it is the problem.
52 steex : Skymark doesn't serve ITM, either. They have placed their eggs in the UKB (Kobe) basket for the greater Osaka area.
53 spacecadet : Well, both of those statements are overdramatized and don't really consider the reasons behind the decline in travel. (Most of the news we get in the
54 phxa340 : Many airlines have gone BK with 90% + load factors. Skymark can easily fill up every seat but to do so profitably is going to be very challenging.
55 brilondon : They so far seem to know what they are doing domestically and they will tap into their customer base for the flights to the US. Introducing that kind
56 spacecadet : Well, that's true - I guess I've been more focused on whether there's a market, not whether it can be profitable. I guess there's probably a market f
57 jfk777 : Is this really going to work ? Japan is the only country in Asia with airports at capacity. But it also has the most Pacific competition. IF an A380 i
58 airbazar : Many such airlines were not established LCC's. The long haul LCC segment is very new. Skyark is doing something that no one has even attempted to do.
59 Bluewave 707 : I could see Skymark entering the HNL market with either with an A330 or A380. Being that SKY is partly owned by HIS Tours, and based at HND, they coul
60 phxa340 : Sorry but you are not correct with that statement. Air Asia is an LCC and their long haul was a disaster from a profit point of view. Likewise Air Be
61 Burkhard : Skymark may be a no name in international airline industry and for a.net which is mainly focussing around the US micro cosmos, but behind Skymarks is
62 Post contains links KarelXWB : I think we are underestimating Skymark Airlines. Skymark is not just a shitty airline or whatever but is partly owned by HIS, a big tour organiser tha
63 spacecadet : I doubt that. They could maybe give Economy Plus seats at economy prices. There's no way they could equal JAL's PE offering and sell them for economy
64 Post contains images PHX787 : Hold on a second there, with both points: E+ and P.E. are no different when classified in Japan. It's just wordplay. JL and BC are going to offer pra
65 travelin man : OK, maybe I'm missing something here, but how does Cheap Prices + Low Density + Expensive new (BIG) airplane = financial success?
66 Aaron747 : Not really, I mean basically this is how things are on the ground. And if anything Keidanren has been conservative in their statements on the directi
67 LAXintl : For fun here are the largest Japan-US markets in annual pure O&D. I excluded transfer traffic as Skymark does not have much a network at NRT. Migh
68 UA787DEN : This is addressing only the thread starting post, not even debating whether they should have ordered the A380, or discussing the configuration: Well d
69 PHX787 : Not that I heard of last time. It's really cramped there. NRT is putting the finishing touches on a LCC Concourse, and when this is all finished, BC
70 Aaron747 : And that's not all - both NH and JL also have existing tour package consolidation agreements with H.I.S. That's another question mark in all of this.
71 airbazar : First off, I'm not sure when I said otherwise. All I said was that the long haul LCC model was "very new", which it is. There haven't been many long
72 gemuser : Jetstar? Unless you think SYD/CNS-NRT/HNL is not long haul. They seem to have been fairly successful at LH LCC. Gemuser
73 Bluewave 707 : If HIS does not renew (or just cancel) their contracts with JAL and ANA, and divert them all to SKY ... then SKY might have a better shot with competi
74 AirlineCritic : I suspect large tour operators have enough customers that they'll need all the airlines serving them. And certainly enough destinations. But of cours
75 flyglobal : Wow, some here do hard to come out of their branded brain box. Skymark may just offer what many tourists want: a vacation from the beginning with the
76 LJ : They don't need to undercut DL/UA. If they use Skymark instead of DL/UA they get a bigger piece of the pie (the profit DL/UA would made) They intend
77 Post contains images KarelXWB : Amen to that. Exactly what I have in mind.
78 KarelXWB : It was just some quick thinking on my side. Take the JAL 77W for example: it has 272 seats and the A380 has, let's say, a 30% higher operating cost o
79 SKAirbus : Airlines don't make a decision to by such big (an expensive) aircraft lightly and there will be a comprehensive business plan in place. Of course this
80 Aaron747 : Yes, the only real difference being they started in a market where travel was growing rather than contracting. This is not the heyday of the 1980s in
81 brilondon : No you have not missed anything. I don't think they are going to concentrate on markets where there is saturation like on the TYO-LAX route. They may
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