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ELY NV To Lose EAS Air Service  
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1107 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4077 times:

Because the subsidy for each passenger is far greater than allowed, ELY is set to lose their air service.
Remember when UA contracted with the original Frontier to provide CV580 service at ELY, and later 737 Jet service.

http://www.elynews.com/news/article_...2-5040-11e2-bf77-001a4bcf887a.html

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3934 times:

In my early days working at SMF, UA ran the Mainliner service including Ely themselves, on a 732. They actually had a 6-stop SMF-DEN flight open for sale that ran SMF-SFO-RNO-EKO-ELY-SLC-DEN. Hopefully nobody ever booked that unintentionally.

[Edited 2013-01-02 23:17:00]


Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3789 times:
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I'm sorry, I'm not paying $1600 a ticket (on average) to subsidize flights from Ely. They will just have to drive the 3 hours to Elko or 4 to SLC. Not my fault they decieded to live in the middle of nowhere. Glad to see congress putting a limit on the subsidy even if it is $1000 a pax


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User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3607 times:

Quoting ridgid727 (Thread starter):
Because the subsidy for each passenger is far greater than allowed, ELY is set to lose their air service.
Remember when UA contracted with the original Frontier to provide CV580 service at ELY, and later 737 Jet service.

Ely is fairly geographically isolated so this is not the perfect case of EAS abuse, but any shrinkage of the program is a good thing. SCASD next...


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 2):
Not my fault they decieded to live in the middle of nowhere.

It is hard to justify that much to subsidize air service, but we all get subsidies. I would imagine the good people of Ely are not fond of subsidizing the a new Tappan Zee bridge, widening I-95, or replacing sand on our Jersey shore beaches, which we get federal funds to do.

-Rampart


User currently offlineboslax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3450 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
but any shrinkage of the program is a good thing.

Completely agree. However, wouldn't be surprised if the EAS program grows. With all of the 50 seat RJ's expected to leave the system, many communities will lose service, some will lose all of their service. A good example is Butte, MT. Skywest files motion to terminate its subsidy-free service which triggers the DOT to request proposals from interested carriers to apply for EAS subsidy. Skywest now operates 2 daily CRJ's to SLC at annual subsidy rate of $670,000. Current load factor in the SLC-BTM market is 64%. Have to believe there are many other communities in the U.S. that may follow the path of BTM.


User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3378 times:

If the local community wants to subsidize air service, then the local community should find a local solution. EAS needs to end in all but a handful of locations. EAS is truly essential in remote Alaska locations not connected by road, but even that should probably be a state managed solution.

User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3304 times:

Quoting boslax (Reply 5):
A good example is Butte, MT. Skywest files motion to terminate its subsidy-free service which triggers the DOT to request proposals from interested carriers to apply for EAS subsidy. Skywest now operates 2 daily CRJ's to SLC at annual subsidy rate of $670,000. Current load factor in the SLC-BTM market is 64%. Have to believe there are many other communities in the U.S. that may follow the path of BTM.


BTM is a perfect example of a place that probably doesn't truly need air service IMHO. BTM is only 68 freeway miles from HLN and only 75 freeway miles from BZN, both of which have better air service and both of which are reachable in approximately one hour or less at MT freeway speed limits. Inconvenient? Sure. Requiring taxpayer funded air service? Absolutely not. In essence, EAS in these areas is subsidizing those who really don't need subsidization simply for the sake of convenience. Most people who live in rural areas already are willing to drive far further than 75 miles, perhaps forsaking several closer airports in the process, in order to save hundreds of dollars to fly out of a larger, more competitive airport.

There are many many places in the country where any commercial air service at all is far further than 68 miles. One simple example that comes to mind is Baker City, OR, where the closest commercial air service at all is 95 miles away at PDT, and that is super basic SeaPort Airlines service to PDX. Other than that, they have to drive to BOI, 127 miles away, to get real air service. I fully realize this is just one example and it is far worse is places like Elko.

IMHO, EAS should serve exactly what toltommy said, remote places. It should not be available to simply improve convenience for those who have air service nearby. Just my   

[Edited 2013-01-03 08:56:58]


SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 7):
Most people who live in rural areas already are willing to drive far further than 75 miles, perhaps forsaking several closer airports in the process, in order to save hundreds of dollars to fly out of a larger, more competitive airport.

My parents live in rural Idaho. Total driving distance to PIH is 42 miles. IDA is 83 miles. SLC is 143 miles. I can remember my mom taking a flight out of PIH once (years ago when she was going to BOI and QX served that route), but other than that, they ALWAYS fly out of SLC. The rest of their community does too.



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlinepanova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

The EAS program has been discussed many times here. We all have opinions about the value of the program. What is it now, about a $200 million annual program? Money paid to airlines that fly the routes to serve small communities, the people who live, work, and play there and for everyone else in the country who might want to fly to and from those communities.

If trends continue, one can hardly believe the program will make it past the next "fiscal cliff" debate. But, we're talking about Congress, and Nevada has a fairly influential senator, as does West Virginia.

If you're conservative, you argue: if you want it, pay for it yourself. If it can't be done at a profit, it isn't worth doing. If you're liberal, you may argue: it's something we should all help pay for. It's what makes us a great country. (In truth, aren't most of us pretty much somewhere in between?)

I doubt that if every expenditure by the government were voted on by each of us, any expenditure would ever pass muster, particularly as it comes to transportation. Yet, if we tried to fund everything through taxes, directly or via subsidy, there probably wouldn't be enough money to pay for it, either.

The question is: are people entitled to live, work, and play wherever they want to? Are they entitled to have people come visit them, help them set up businesses, and have a great time there. Now, this could be along the Jersey shore right on the beach, somewhere along the Mississippi River including in the flood plain, in Las Vegas, Joplin, MO, Macon, GA, and yes, in Ely and Elko, NV. If they are, are they entitled to federal assistance, or subsidy, for things like roads, highways, clean air, clean water, electrical power, postal service, and yes, yes, commecial air service?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could now have a fresh, calm, open, reasoned, non-political discussion of the need for and use of subsidy, why it makes sense to provide it, if it does, and who would decide where it would be provided and in what amount?

[Edited 2013-01-03 15:11:54]

User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Quoting panova98 (Reply 9):
The EAS program has been discussed many times here. We all have opinions about the value of the program. What is it now, about a $200 million annual program?

Just under $200M, so expect it to become a political football with conservative claims of waste, while totalling ignoring reality that cutting all $200M would represent only 0.0014% of the debt problem. Which is like the average US household earning the average US wage (~$50K P.A) cutting the same 0.0014% (71 cents) of annual spending to pay off their average household credit card debt (~$15.8K)!

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 7):
BTM is a perfect example of a place that probably doesn't truly need air service IMHO. BTM is only 68 freeway miles from HLN and only 75 freeway miles from BZN, both of which have better air service and both of which are reachable in approximately one hour or less at MT freeway speed limits. Inconvenient? Sure

...though there are places it can be cut and used more effectively. Subsidizing an airport within 70 miles of two other airports is just crazy.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9489 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2906 times:

Ely is a town of 4000 people. The airport has averaged about 250 passengers PER YEAR! That is a ridiculously low number to justify a daily flight on any airplane. You might as well hire a Cessna 172 to serve the airport.

There are some far more legitimate airports getting EAS, but a town of 4,000 people that can't fill a Cessna 172 isn't the best use of the program.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
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