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When Does DL Start Flying The 717's?  
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5950 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17687 times:
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I know that WN sold or transferred leases of all of their 717-200's from FL to DL. When is DL slated to start putting those 717's into service?

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7924 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17690 times:

Second quarter IIRC.

Nothing too constructive in this link though. http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1624



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17634 times:

Why should they? Just for my knowledge


Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10638 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 17518 times:

Quoting LO231 (Reply 2):
Why should they? Just for my knowledge

Why should they (DL?/WN?) what?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2395 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 17460 times:

September, 2013 at earliest; November, 2013 at latest.


There's nothing quite like a trijet.
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4228 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 17440 times:

Rumors recently of it possibly moving up from Sept delivery and Oct EIS. We'll see!


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5943 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16968 times:

There was some sort of service letter or AD that Delta was making WN/FL take care of before they'd accept the aircraft; I think that pushed the timeline back a bit.

User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2907 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16877 times:

Just flew the FL 717 over the holidays, those birds certainly have seen better days. Given that they probably have a long future ahead of them with DL, I should imagine a thorough refurbishment is a must.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3621 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16544 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 7):
Just flew the FL 717 over the holidays, those birds certainly have seen better days. Given that they probably have a long future ahead of them with DL, I should imagine a thorough refurbishment is a must.

I also flew them over the holidays and got the opposite impression.

My buddy works at LGA for WN and I told him straight out after I landed, "Southwest will regret the day they sent these to Delta."

Nice product for thinner routes...especially high frequency business routes.


User currently offlineMd88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1337 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16123 times:

They start to arrive in September and fly the schedule in October. 3 birds a month.

User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7763 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16067 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 7):
Just flew the FL 717 over the holidays, those birds certainly have seen better days. Given that they probably have a long future ahead of them with DL, I should imagine a thorough refurbishment is a must.

As a part of the deal, WN is paying the $100M to refurbish the 88 717s to convert them into the DL fleet. This at the price of over $1 M per aircraft.

This includes:
- All new interiors (seats, carpet, lavs, bins) to match the rest of the DL fleet
- Paint in the DL livery
- Installation of Gogo wifi
- Compliance and completion on all ADs


User currently onlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17141 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15997 times:

Quoting Md88Captain (Reply 9):
They start to arrive in September and fly the schedule in October. 3 birds a month.

When will they start to show up on the schedule?

Anyone know which routes they will be deployed on?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15952 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):
"Southwest will regret the day they sent these to Delta."

I wonder if AA has thought the same in recent years..Boeing(or whomever had the TWA leases) probably wishes they had made a deal with AA back in 2001 or so...hindsight is 20/20 vision tho. But seems to me that WN is making the same error.


User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7763 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15871 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
When will they start to show up on the schedule?

Anyone know which routes they will be deployed on?

Not likely to know much until about July, based on a start date of October. Even at this point, the start date is somewhat fluid and could move +/- a month based on a variety of factors.

The first routes will be out of ATL. ATL routes that are or have recently seen DC-9-50 service are the most probable initial routes.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15854 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 3):

I said for my knowledge. Not everybody on this site is familiar with US market. Sorry



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10638 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15837 times:

Quoting LO231 (Reply 14):
I said for my knowledge. Not everybody on this site is familiar with US market. Sorry

Maybe I'm the one that should say I was sorry. I just wasn't clear on exactly what you wanted an explanation for.




BTW, this all seems to have come full circle. I remember people saying what a mistake it was when some of DL's DC-9-32s were sold to Valujet.....that it would come back to bite them. Well, we've gone to Valujet, AirTran & Southwest and now we're receiving a/c from them. Perhaps this deal will come back to bite WN. Who knows?

[Edited 2013-01-03 08:17:21]


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15783 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):

No offence taken. Just curious  



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3070 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15724 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 12):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):
"Southwest will regret the day they sent these to Delta."

I wonder if AA has thought the same in recent years..Boeing(or whomever had the TWA leases) probably wishes they had made a deal with AA back in 2001 or so...hindsight is 20/20 vision tho. But seems to me that WN is making the same error.

I'm not so sure. While I don't doubt that the 717s offer a great flying experience, they don't seem to be a great fit for WN because they're a completely different type that still requires the same number of F/As as 737s and carry roughly the same number of pax as WN's existing-soon-to-be-outgoing 735s, so from WN's perspective they're not different enough to justify the expense of adding and maintaining a second major type of aircraft to their fleet.

Had FL been operating a fleet of 88 E-190s at the time of the merger, which could have been efficiently configured at just under 100 pax thereby requiring only two F/As per flight, WN might have been more willing to take on a second major aircraft type.

[Edited 2013-01-03 08:22:24]


Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4358 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15689 times:

Quoting LO231 (Reply 2):
Why should they? Just for my knowledge

Southwest seems to want to keep things simple and holds on to a single fleet type so they can easily swap crews. It was already a headache for them how to organize and dispatch 4 F/A's on their 738s while putting 3 F/A's on the rest of the fleet.
Delta however wanted a 110-seater to fill the gap between the ERJs and CRJ900s and the A-319s after the last DC-9-50s are gone and to replace some MD-80s on routes for which they are a bit too big. Apparently Delta has more routes needing a 110 seater (in contrast to the MD-80s/90s/737s having 130-170 seats) while Southwest don't after they cherry pick AirTran's route network and only continue the routes they like. Delta also flies all other Douglas twinjets already so adding some 717s isn't too much of a hassle for them.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7763 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15549 times:

DL has a much better ability to use the 717s and get a revenue premium versus what WN could do with then under their operating model. DL can use them to offer a 2-class product, maintain capacitty constraints, and use them to feed more lucrative connecting international, BE,

Wheras WN/FL might use a 717 in place line FNT-ATL for the purpose of connecting low-yield and price sensitive traffic to Florida, DL may use them on a route like BHM-ATL for the purpose of feeding their global hub and say connecting people in the J cabin to places like LHR, NRT, GRU, etc.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15295 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 18):

Can somebody explain it to me? Isn't it the rule to have one FA by 50 pax?



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlinegoomba From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14927 times:

The 717's are all new (in respective terms) and have a long prosperous life in front of them with DL. I think this is a brilliant move for both carriers (DL and WN). WN likes one aircraft type for crew swapping, plane swapping, maintenance costs, etc., and DL certainly has a need for a short to mid range jet to help with phasing out the old DC-9, MD-80, A320 aircraft that need to be phased out. This is a very cost effective move for DL. As we've all seen, DL is doing quite well with buying/leasing used aircraft and incorporating them into their fleet vs. buying new. Buying new is expensive. This is why you see 8 different 757 configurations in DL's fleet. Plus the 717's don't have far to travel to get to DL...cross both 8/26 runways taxiway Dixie and they are at their new home.  

User currently offlineHoMsaR From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14616 times:

When DL takes delivery of the 717s, will they have the title of having flown the most different Douglas jet types/subtypes?

For that matter, they were just the 707 away from flying the entire Boeing and MD lineup (excluding the 787, which will show up...someday).



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3070 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14615 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 18):
Southwest seems to want to keep things simple and holds on to a single fleet type so they can easily swap crews. It was already a headache for them how to organize and dispatch 4 F/A's on their 738s while putting 3 F/A's on the rest of the fleet.
Quoting LO231 (Reply 20):
Can somebody explain it to me? Isn't it the rule to have one FA by 50 pax?

WN's 737s seat 137 pax (soon to be more but still less than 150 overall) while their 738s seat more than 150 pax (I forget how many exactly- I'm sure someone will post the official number), thus requiring a fourth F/A per flight.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14189 times:

I per 50 SEATS (with a small exception for under 19 seats; save for yet another exception based on weight of a/c).

Not to put too fine a point on it, but staffing can also be affected by previous staffing of an a/c--ie, if a 757 were 210 seats it would require 5 FA's. But then, say, 11 seats were removed (to 199) but no new mini-evac were performed, then the FAA would still require 5...ask Pace crews about this little problem they had with that rule.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
25 cloud4000 : Is DL going to hire FL flight crews to fly them or they going to use their own pilots?
26 dlramp4life : I don't think so unless they apply. Less then two weeks ago DL had 400 openings for flight attendants. Most of these new hires would be for the 717,
27 mayor : Why would they need to do that? They've already got flight crews on DC9-50s and MD-88s and MD-90s that would just have to take training to familiariz
28 superjeff : 175 seats on their 738's.
29 srbmod : Had Boeing Capital been willing to rework the TWA 717 lease terms, Boeing would have more than likely seen at least 300+ 717s delivered, as FL's orde
30 wjcandee : Um...don't they already have GoGo? Maybe there's some kind of GoGo upgrade (like to CDMA Rev. Whatever) they're doing?
31 seabosdca : My last few FL 717 flights suggest the refurbishment is about due. FL hasn't abused the birds, but it has used them hard, and saved costs where safel
32 wjcandee : I love flying the 717, as did the TWA crews. There were a couple of advantages to AA of sticking with the F100s, though, so it wasn't just the TWA le
33 Post contains links srbmod : DL is one of the launch customers for Gogo's next generation tech, ATG-4 (along with Virgin America and US Airways). Gogo to Expand Gogo Vision on De
34 Post contains images PHLBOS : Had that happened, 717 production would still be taking place at Long Beach as I write this. And rightly so. Given the limited number of mainline air
35 N62NA : I could see them doing most of the EWR-ATL flying.
36 srbmod : I never heard it that way, nor do I recall any threads about it it going down that way. What I had heard was that AA really liked the 717s and wanted
37 PHLBOS : The fore-mentioned one-for-one deal I'm referring to was a last-ditch effort Boeing offered to AA w/out TW's high lease rates. IIRC, I heard about th
38 727LOVER : Slightly off topic-----when do 739ER get here???
39 Post contains links and images UnitedTristar : Actually from what I recall, there was a big airplane swap to happen if UA/US Merged that involved AA. Before that swap was set up AA was going to ke
40 infiniti329 : Youd be surprised when the deal was first announced alot FL pilots were considering jumping ship to DL.
41 KC135TopBoom : Is there any plan for DL to pick up some of the former MexicanaClick B-717s still parked in the deserts?
42 mayor : But it wouldn't be like the aircrews were part of the deal, along with the a/c. They'd have to hire on and go to the bottom of the list, more than li
43 srbmod : That's always a possibility. Click was getting some of the 717s that were formerly operated by Midwest (Hawaiian and Spanish airline Volotea have pic
44 dtw9 : That's because the rest in storage are going to Volotea
45 DTWPurserBoy : No, the rule is one f/a per 50 SEATS, not pax.
46 e38 : Quoting B747forever (Reply 11), "Anyone know which routes they will be deployed on?" The initial pilot base will be Atlanta; so obviously, the routes
47 mayor : As far as SLC is concerned, I would imagine this might have something to do with the 717's hot and high performance as much as anything else. How IS
48 ouboy79 : The -700s are getting refit to 143 seats with the "evolve" interior. I want to say about half are already converted. As pointed out already, no need.
49 e38 : Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 25), "Is DL going to hire FL flight crews to fly them or they going to use their own pilots?" cloud4000, Delta will use their
50 Antoniemey : It'll be nice to see a mainline T-tail in BNA does doesn't scream as it taxis in...
51 bobnwa : Maybe a loyt of FL pilots were consideringdering jumping to DL, but I don't remember DL ever saying they wanted the FL pilots.
52 Post contains images PHLBOS : Thank you for adding the piece of missing info. regarding the infamous AA 717/F100 swap that never happened. Sidebar question: Given that FL has flow
53 B757forever : Maybe. At the Senior Leadership Conference last fall, Ed Bastian spoke about the 717 deal and stated there were additional 717 airframes over and abo
54 B727FA : As B757 said, "maybe." Never say never on VA avenue! I'd speculate that yes, every available 717 (even a few high powered RC models--ha ha) will find
55 TrijetsRMissed : From what I know, the 717 is respectable, as the high bypass BR715's perform better than the JT8D-200 series. The 717 is not as strong as the MD-90,
56 srbmod : Those BR-715s have that distinctive Rolls growl and compared to the JT8Ds used on the DC-9s and MD-80s, it's a quiet plane both inside and out. I was
57 mayor : Kinda like a mini-Tristar??
58 srbmod : Not that deep. I remember when I worked for FL and EV and DL operated the L-1011s out of the gates on B that faced C and they'd fire up those RB-211s
59 Antoniemey : Yeah, working the ramp I've learned to tell what kind of plane it is by how the engines sound... the A320s have more of a buzz, the DC-9s and MD-88s
60 Post contains links United_fan : On a side note,it looks like DL is retiring another -9. ATL-OKC-MZJ . Glad I saw and heard (!) them during thier short,2 week or so appearance in ROC
61 yyz717 : N401EA
62 n471wn : Source? No such announcement has been made that I know of.
63 TZTriStar500 : This has not been made public, but the remaining 11 are allocated for Volotea.[Edited 2013-01-05 12:20:42]
64 Post contains images B757forever : I believe this was the only Eastern Airlines DC9-50 that DL was operating. Sad to see it go.
65 yyz717 : Wow, an era ended yesterday then! I wonder if any other former EA aircraft are still flying? Likely most of the 752 fleet but as early models, they m
66 MEA-707 : A handful of ex Eastern 757s are still flying, but as VIP or cargo only. Ironically more ex Eastern 727s also still survive, also as freighters with
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