Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DL To Start LAX-BNA, RDU-TPA  
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13789 times:

According to DL's desktop timetable, they will be adding a daily LAX-BNA flight starting April 8th with a 738.

At the same time, they will increase LAX-RDU frequency to daily, though it will still be a redeye.

RDU-TPA starts March 3rd as a once daily CRJ.


Looks like Jetlanta was right, DL views RDU as their market and are willing to fight for it. We shall see if AA has a response.


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
121 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinexjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2461 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13424 times:

The red-eye isn't the issue, in fact most people still prefer the red-eye since they can take all day to finish their business. It's the timing of the flight leaving RDU that has always been the biggest gripe.

Also, I'm not sure where you are seeing the RDU-TPA flight start on Mar 3 or even Apr 3. And remember, if this is actually happening, this would be a restart of the route, as recently as last year DL had at least 1x daily to TPA from RDU.

[Edited 2013-01-03 03:27:49]


Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2873 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13410 times:

Who would have ever thought that AA's addition of LAX-RDU would elicit any kind of response from DL, other than a swift and quiet drop a la LAX-PHL (once VX started that route). If AA started LAX-ATL/DTW/MSP, then it'd be another story.

I don't see how either of these routes will impact AA at all. AA shuttles the entertainment industry folk$$$ between LAX and BNA, given that that will not change anytime soon they have nothing to lose to DL but low-yielding pax. AA doesn't fly RDU-TPA, a route that certainly does not fit into their cornerstone strategy.

It may be worth mentioning that WN does fly both of these routes. They enjoy significant FF loyalty and onward connectivity in all 4 markets, and are probably laughing at DL's attempt to either retaliate against AA, or keep the 738s and CRJs busier, or simply keep building up focus cities at LAX and RDU any way they can. If DL wanted to make a statement to AA, they could have started LAX-DFW/ORD, or even LAX-AUS/STL. If DL wanted to grow at LAX, why not resume LAX-BOS, as they seem to be holding their own at BOS these days, or a niche route like GEG, perhaps also send an RJ to SAT (relatively uncompetitive by LAX standards). Even a resumption of LAX-MKE seems like a better move to me. Out of RDU, they could send the RJ to an uncompetitive niche market - AUS, MCI, MKE, etc. - rather than a route that sees mainline LCC competition.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3297 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13388 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):
AA shuttles the entertainment industry folk$$$ between LAX and BNA, given that that will not change anytime soon they have nothing to lose to DL but low-yielding pax.

Who is to say that won't change? Lots of things have been changing over the past few years. But change like this doesn't happen without first adapting the network to serve the needs of the customers in question.


User currently offlinexjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2461 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13333 times:

I am curious as if to the OP has a link to this information. I dug a little deeper from both internal and external sources and cannot find one piece of information on this.

Friend of mine hopped on travelnet and it shows no non-stop TPA flight nor any deviation from the RDULAX 3x weekly.



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineBNAtraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13224 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

BNA-LAX, vv. is interesting. I see it in the downloadable app but nowhere else.

DL934 LAX 10:15a BNA 4:10p D 738
DL934 BNA 5:00p LAX 7:35p D 738


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13075 times:

Dear Delta,

If you want to reinstate a route, might I suggest RDU-MSY since its unserved and overdue? Throw a goJet CR7 on it. Then research MCI and AUS. GoJet CR7 and Compass E70 utilization, please...



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23031 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12988 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):
I don't see how either of these routes will impact AA at all. AA shuttles the entertainment industry folk$$$ between LAX and BNA, given that that will not change anytime soon they have nothing to lose to DL but low-yielding pax.

  

DL will be at a frequency disadvantage to both AA and WN, plus AA and WN have better hubs for connections when the nonstops are full or the times don't work. The relatively newer morning AA flight also connects pretty well to both the AA and JL NRT flights, and the connection coming back isn't too bad either. WN has significant feed on both ends (and carries a lot of RDU/PHL/BWI-LAX thru traffic, depending on the continuation city in the current schedule). I love to see BNA get more service, but I don't see DL's niche on this route. The timing of the eastbound flight is also sub-optimal.

[Edited 2013-01-03 06:04:13]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinexjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2461 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12927 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
I love to see BNA get more service, but I don't see DL's niche on this route. The timing of the eastbound flight is also sub-optimal.

I disagree with you on this one. That timing is perfect with the last bank out of LAX. While it misses the HND flight by an hour and change, they can also capture the intra-california, the majority of the Skyteam connections from TBIT, and the SYD flight. Whereas RDU arrives at 2210, which misses most, if not all, connections domestically, misses the DL SYD flight, and the majority of the Skyteam TBIT departures. I think there are two random Asian departures that leave TBIT post midnight that people can connect to, but those are a far cry from other, more optimal departures.



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23031 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12907 times:

Quoting xjramper (Reply 8):
I disagree with you on this one.

You are talking about westbound, and I agree that the timing of the westbound flight is good. The eastbound flight isn't so good, especially for O&D passengers.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12896 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):
I don't see how either of these routes will impact AA at all. AA shuttles the entertainment industry folk$$$ between LAX and BNA, given that that will not change anytime soon they have nothing to lose to DL but low-yielding pax. AA doesn't fly RDU-TPA, a route that certainly does not fit into their cornerstone strategy.
Quoting BNAtraveler (Reply 5):
BNA-LAX, vv. is interesting. I see it in the downloadable app but nowhere else.
DL934 LAX 10:15a BNA 4:10p D 738
DL934 BNA 5:00p LAX 7:35p D 738
Quoting xjramper (Reply 8):
I disagree with you on this one. That timing is perfect with the last bank out of LAX.

I'm shocked to see them go into a two carrier, fairly long-haul market. Also, the point of sale is mostly BNA on this flight and the schedule requries two nights in L.A. to have one day of business there. That will really hurt them against the other airlines. The connectivity on the LAX end is something, but still the local market is how this lives or dies. I agree it is retaliation to AA...fairly clearly.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12829 times:

DL has been chasing high yield stuff as of late....and LAX-BNA is clearly an attempt at that.

I firmly believe we will see lots more LAX stuff in the next 12 months.....including some international once again..and this time it will stick.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12540 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
I firmly believe we will see lots more LAX stuff in the next 12 months.....including some international once again

You are probably right.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
and this time it will stick.

History shows you are likely to be wrong on that one.

In April and May 2012 LAX-HND only flew 62 and 67% full.

[Edited 2013-01-03 07:12:42]

User currently offlinedlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12293 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
I firmly believe we will see lots more LAX stuff in the next 12 months.....including some international once again..and this time it will stick.

Can't wait to see what happens!! My rumor ive been spreading around the ramp lately is DL going 2x daily LAX-KOA haha i can dream..

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
History shows you are likely to be wrong on that one.

In April and May 2012 LAX-HND only flew 62 and 67% full

"LATELY" history is showing you were wrong in a lot of markets that DL is still serving from LAX...Not trying to be in ass just saying...


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12005 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
History shows you are likely to be wrong on that one.

In April and May 2012 LAX-HND only flew 62 and 67% full.

I was thinking it would be more south....mexico and latam. LAN has shown LIM can work....ditto on CM at PTY etc etc. And don't forget DL already serves GUA....a return to SAL would be a no brainer for them....BOG would work too

Yes they tried Central America a few years ago.....but that was the old DL...this time they understand the markets better and have better sales teams in place. Anyone monitoring the latter over the last 24 months will see that moves to better play in the VFR markets have been made successfully.

DL desperately needs a second LatAm hub to compete with AA (MIA-DFW), UA (IAH, EWR, IAD). Dual hubs work better as they are better able to cater to many passenger connecting needs. For example, I know of many tourists that do XXX-DFW-BZE-MIA-XXX.....right now DL loses much of the connecting traffic to latin america to UA and AA because the DFW and IAH connections are far better than ATL.

Having just promoted DL...I am off to fly UA today!



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23031 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11964 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 14):
LAN has shown LIM can work....ditto on CM at PTY etc etc. And don't forget DL already serves GUA....a return to SAL would be a no brainer for them....BOG would work too

LA and CM mean nothing. They have significant connecting hubs on the other end. DL's aborted attempt at LAX-GRU is more instructive. DL on LAX-Latin America is basically p2p, and the South America flights are longer than other flights from the States to the same points. For instance, LAX-BOG cannot be done on anything smaller than a 752.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11798 times:

Delta had to at least upgrade to daily or leave the route.

I think its half as#ing it to still keep the return a red eye . They should really commit and fight AA with a daytime return. Delta been on the route longer but i think AA will win the business crowd with the timing......interesting to see how RDU-LAX plays out. My guess is Delta will eventually fail unless they commit to a daytime return, but i will be interested to watch and see delta does have quite a loyal following in the southeast so that could be the wildcard here


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11732 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
For instance, LAX-BOG cannot be done on anything smaller than a 752.

73G can do it.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4911 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11706 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting xjramper (Reply 1):
. It's the timing of the flight leaving RDU that has always been the biggest gripe.

RDU-LAX is being retimed and will be a morning departure out of RDU instead, starting in April, clearly targeting the RDU-origination market.

DL1097 RDU 0700 LAX 0915 738


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23031 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11694 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17):
73G can do it.

Please point me toward some other 3000 nm routes successfully operated by the 73G. LAX-BOG is 80 nm longer than MVD-PTY



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11049 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
Please point me toward some other 3000 nm routes successfully operated by the 73G. LAX-BOG is 80 nm longer than MVD-PTY

I didn't say without restrictions....but it could do it with a couple of seats blocked out or limited cargo



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23031 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11009 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 20):
I didn't say without restrictions....but it could do it with a couple of seats blocked out or limited cargo

So we're going to take a plane that has poor economics to start with and then start blocking seats?

Besides bleeding money, what is the point of this exercise?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10981 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
So we're going to take a plane that has poor economics to start with and then start blocking seats?

Besides bleeding money, what is the point of this exercise?

I think WN and CM would disagree on the poor economics thing....If you can charge enough for the seats, it more than makes up for the loss of a few blocked seats.

But yes, I agree a 752 would be the ideal aircraft and thoroughly fillable from LAX.

You say CM and LAN have feed at PTY/LIM....DL has feed (via AS) and its slowly growing domestic route structure at LAX (wasn't SEA announced last week?) to more than make it work



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32799 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10936 times:

It'll be fun to watch. I look forward to the fare wars. Already have an LAXRDU booked for April.

Wouldn't be shocked to see AA add a third daily LAXBNA, and I've already been hearing AA is looking at LAXATL.

DL won't last on LAXBNA.

LAXRDU will be more interesting to watch. Market is not big enough for two airlines, and the end result might be it simply won't be served non-stop at all.

[Edited 2013-01-03 12:37:53]


a.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23031 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10903 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 22):
You say CM and LAN have feed at PTY/LIM....DL has feed (via AS) and its slowly growing domestic route structure at LAX (wasn't SEA announced last week?) to more than make it work

That's not really an apples to apples comparison. CM has a highly banked, extremely efficient hub at PTY and LA/LP fly to many big cities without other access to LA from LIM.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 mah4546 : Ridiculous comparison. CM and LA have hubs at PTY/LIM and feed from cities that have strong demand to LA. DL and AS do not have hubs in LAX, nor do t
26 surfdog75 : I hope AA does LAX-ATL. It'd be nice to see DL add back LAX-DFW in response. Everything out of DFW on DL is packed to the gills.
27 travelin man : Oh man I hope so. Either UA or AA should start LAX-ATL. It's too big of a market for one carrier (yeah yeah FL serves it too I know).
28 slcdeltarumd11 : LAX-ATL is a tough market but i could see one 737-800 like they maintain to EWR if its perfectly timed being possible.
29 dlflynhayn : AA would bleed even more money if they tried this..I believe UA tried it a few years ago and was also cancelled,so if UA wasn't able to make it work
30 travelin man : I don't think AA would bleed money with the frequent flyer base it has in the LA area. And UA I believe tried it a very long time ago, but ATL is tod
31 klkla : Can't they at least wait unti they get out of bankruptcy before going back to making stupid business decisions?
32 Deltal1011man : Have to wait till its loaded into the system on Saturday to see it on Delta.com or TravelNet. How about a cit that isn't restricted by crappy slots?
33 PIEAvantiP180 : WN is on the route nonstop as well 1x daily and as you mentioned FL is 3x daily. I'm convinced that if AA attempts LAX-ATL DL will respond with LAX-D
34 UA787DEN : To respond to the initial post: I'm not surprised. DL is DL, and they don't want to lose all LAX-RDU pax. But it probably won't impact AA much. Neithe
35 Deltal1011man : Getting close to busting 110 flights a day. IIRC this will put Delta right at ~108 flights from LAX.
36 Post contains links Deltal1011man : Just a note, its a little OT but I'm to lazy to go and find the thread. PR for the start for SEA flights. Not sure why they didn't include BNA, becaus
37 DeltaMD90 : Well no one is prone to mistakes, and this may very well be one, but DL does seem to be cutting the crap recently and trying hard to fly only flights
38 yellowtail : Funniest post of the year so far. Welcome to my RU list! I agree too...DL has a decent FF base in BNA.
39 mah4546 : Why is it stupid for an airline to fly to ATL from its fourth largest hub, in a market (LAX) where AA is the strongest airline among corporate travel
40 Cubsrule : I would be shocked if DL had more of a "fallowing" than AA or WN in either BNA or LAX, but I'd love to have someone convince me otherwise.
41 PIEAvantiP180 : I don't think anybody was stating that DL had a larger following in either LA or BNA, but that their following was maybe large enough to warrant a on
42 Cubsrule : Let's say DL can get a 20 percent market share with a nonstop. That's only about 60 PDEW, and with only one nonstop flight, some DL passengers will d
43 PIEAvantiP180 : Starting off I don't either, but with the right attention, support, and maybe if they stick to it long enough it just might. That's why I'm giving it
44 sevenfeet : BNA-LAX has a simple reason behind it...the entertainment industry. It's mostly the music biz but sometimes the TV and movie biz needs a direct from t
45 Deltal1011man : Where did i say that? this. maybe. AFAIK TBIT hasn't hit the magic number to give AA its TBIT gates. uhh...not sure how you figure uhh Terminal 5 is
46 Cubsrule : The market isn't big enough for three, so if you believe DL is going to make it work, you have to believe that DL has an advantage somewhere. I'd lik
47 jetlanta : AA has no huge advantage at LAX because it doesn't have a huge advantage in any of the categories you mention, with the exception if the mostly irrel
48 Post contains images Deltal1011man : I think they have the people in both cities to make it work.....
49 Cubsrule : You are avoiding the issue. Do you believe the market (~275 PDEW) is large enough for three carriers? If so, why?
50 UA787DEN : DL can probably make it work, especially with all the international/Hawaii and SkyTeam connections at LAX. But I doubt they will be able to hurt WN an
51 jetlanta : Delta is bigger at BNA than AA is now. Has been for a couple of years now. That is a start. If this is part of a global strategy of moving entertainm
52 mah4546 : Yes, it has. Magic number is 17. Currently scheduled to have 18, so AMR gets its four preferential use gates. Largest Euro carrier at LAX, largest La
53 Cubsrule : Given the proximity to ATL, I'm not sure bigger is necessarily better. DL's and AA's networks are so radically different that it's tough to compare t
54 UA787DEN : I would say UA is dominant for international service, out of the US carriers. That was all I was stating. I am not that educated on LAX dynamics and m
55 jetlanta : I'd love for you to share ANY data. I won't hold my breathe.
56 UA787DEN : Well said. Mah: If you're going to attempt to incorrectly dis-count someone, at least do it with correct spelling and a few facts. I don't see how AA
57 mah4546 : Yes, UA+UX is bigger than AA+MQ. Both are bigger than WN.[Edited 2013-01-03 20:41:01]
58 mah4546 : What are you talking about? I said that British Airways is the largest European airline at LAX (it is); LAN is the largest LatAm carrier at LAX (fact
59 Post contains images Deltal1011man : it is known on a.net....no one has ever posted proof that I know of....... so if bigger is better then United owns LA no? Oneworld is just fine, but
60 UA787DEN : I have found info saying AA has about 160 daily LAX flights. Does this include MQ? I was talking about when you said AA had the best routes to each of
61 UALFAson : As a somewhat-recent transplant and now frequent flyer out of BNA, I'll throw in my 2 cents' worth: BNA is in need of more non-WN flights heading west
62 Post contains links mah4546 : Here you go: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...ods-secret-spots-inside-lax-233594
63 iowaman : Somewhat dated and some what unreliable flight aware numbers show RDU-LAX on DL at 94% load-factor. BNA-LAX is WN 86% AA 82%. I'm doubting yields are
64 UA787DEN : I think UALFA is saying that non-WN is what they need, with so much WN expansion, variety and choice would be nice and maybe lower fares a tiny bit.
65 Post contains images flyguy89 : Interesting move, but I doubt they'll be successful up against AA on the route if they do indeed still have the corporate contracts in BNA (which it
66 Cubsrule : All right. Since you don't believe that there is room for 3 carriers, is DL going to drive out AA or WN?
67 jetlanta : I assume you meant international. I also assume you don't have access to international O&D data. If so, what source are you using? So lets admit
68 Post contains links diverdave : http://www.transtats.bts.gov/data_elements.aspx?data=1 Of course WN is way out front at Nashville. BNA 2011 Delta mainline pax carried: 344,716 Americ
69 jetlanta : According to T-100, Delta carried 738K from BNA in the YE Aug12. AA carried 651K. This total includes regional partners.
70 Cubsrule : But again, bigger doesn't necessarily tell us anything about the "following" and the potential success of BNA-LAX. If DL's passenger mix in BNA is 0
71 jetlanta : DB1B YE 2Q12 % of PAX with BNA as Point of Origin: WN 67.3% (inflated due to likely higher number of one-way tickets) AA 60.5% DL 56.6% POO isn't the
72 AirMatt : I do hope this happens. A nonstop option on AA would be great. I don't think AA will have a problem making one daily nonstop flight work. A morning d
73 Cubsrule : Which ones?
74 jetlanta : Long-hauls, especially with legacy competition.
75 Cubsrule : But AA and WN have coexisted for years on LAX-BNA. That's what puzzles me about your comment. It's different from some other long-ish flights.
76 jetlanta : That doesn't mean that WN has done well for years. And with AA and DL each adding capacity, WN's performance has nowhere to go but down.
77 Cubsrule : Why keep it if it doesn't do well? What does it add to the network that MDW/STL/HOU-LAX do not?
78 jetlanta : WN has kept a lot that doesn't do well. That should be clear from their P&Ls. However, over the past year or so, we've seen a much more aggressiv
79 Flighty : Pretty silly exercise. Can Delta afford to do a little bit of this? Absolutely, they can afford it. Keeping their nails sharp.
80 Cubsrule : But most of those "things" have been short haul, and most of the cuts have therefore been related to their adoption of certain FL accounting practice
81 bobloblaw : RDU-TPA is a total waste. I bet they are flying this because they have too many CRJ-200s and flying it RDU-TPA is better than parking it. BNA is a cit
82 klkla : One of my clients, who is in the entertainment industry, told me his company had canceled their contract with AA during the pilot slowdown/meltdown a
83 Flytravel : Given WN's strength on the BNA side, I'd think it should make a go for it, perhaps also pre-empting another carrier. Maybe an IAD-BNA-SFO with IAD-BN
84 cessna2 : 94% is a pretty good LF. DL could only find themselves able to less-than-daily hack it because it was just an aircraft utilization. Not a route that
85 UA787DEN : WN often has quite similar fares to the legacies on Transon/Long Haul, and more people are willing to fork out a few bucks more for better service an
86 flyguy89 : Name any other city East of the Mississippi around that size that can handle 5 flights daily to LAX on three different carriers. If it's apparently a
87 UA787DEN : JFK. BOS. :p MCO. Other routes were more important than RDU. If every profitable route was served to saturation, new routes wouldn't be starting. I d
88 flyguy89 : I said cities of around the 1.5 million population he asserted, which markets East of the Mississippi with a population of around 1.5 million can pro
89 UALFAson : I guess I should have been more clear. I know WN offers a lot of BNA-West Coast flights. My point was for those travelers who don't want to fly WN fo
90 Cubsrule : That is a good point. I recently booked a trip to YKM. There was no good way to do it flying. I wound up on WN to SEA and driving from there. I would
91 bobloblaw : Just because there aren't, doesn't mean there can't. WN probably has 50% of the pax as through from somewhere else. For Delta, its probably little ri
92 bobloblaw : Also I should say that cities under 1.5m arent usually hubs and most airlines prefer to route pax thru hubs
93 flyguy89 : Yet it speaks volumes as to the viability of this level of competition/service. ...and BNA isn't a hub, what's your point? IND, CMH, PIT, CVG, and RD
94 cessna2 : DL has posted the flight times. RDU-LAX Dep. 7:00am Arr. 9:24am LAX-RDU Dep. 10:30pm Arr. 6:10am (next day) IMO better timed than the AA flight. Seems
95 flyguy89 : Hard to tell how this one will pan out. Compared to other similarly sized cities in the region, AA has a strong presence in the Raleigh market and I
96 Flytravel : But one can do a full day of work at RDU, leaving at around 4, then fly out to LAX at 5:15pm on AA. On the return, one misses a day in an office, but
97 Cubsrule : I do a lot of BNA-LAX and am absolutely convinced that the best westbound schedule for a low frequency LAX flight is the later afternoon/early evenin
98 slcdeltarumd11 : Sure there is a certain demand for red eyes for business travelers but its small and i think its not the way to go with a single frequency. The vast
99 bobloblaw : Youre missing the point. Because they dont, doesnt mean they cant. They way the industry is structured post deregulation is mostly around hub and spo
100 surfdog75 : This is how airlines lose money. AA should stick to DFW-LAX and DL should stick to ATL-LAX. Let VX be the one who goes under flying into everyone els
101 UA787DEN : Killing LAX wouldn't work. Killing a major Hawaiian/Asian gateway with huge alliance connections and destroying ties to the second largest city in th
102 surfdog75 : DL already has good size LAX pilot and flight attendant domiciles. I mentioned future expansion in LA for DL, not killing it.
103 Deltal1011man : Uh... Delta has a pilot and FA base in both LA and SEA. LAX is 73N/7ER SEA is 7ER/330
104 UA787DEN : OK. Thanks. The rest of what I said still stands. I don't think these routes are going to be super high yielding for anyone, but I give it at least a
105 mah4546 : For whatever reason? I'll give you eight reasons AA flies BNALAX: CAA, WME, APA, Paradigm, Universal, Sony, Warner Music Group and CMT.
106 UA787DEN : And anyone who wants to go to Hawaii, or connect into partners and fly anywhere in Asia. LAX is an AA hub. If flights to a hub past another hub sipho
107 Post contains images Deltal1011man : How about LAX is a hub for AA. Generally when one has a hub they don't just fly to other hubs. I don't get why this is hard for people to understand.
108 UA787DEN : Whoa! You mean a multi-hub and spoke system could have flights from two hubs to the same spoke? Tell me more!! It really isn't hard to understand. Th
109 mah4546 : It's not hard to understand. But LAXBNA pre-dated AA's LAX hub and has been flown to cater to the music industry. Because of the expanding hub, AA do
110 Post contains images Deltal1011man : Really? when did AA start LAX-BNA? (and when did LAX become a "hub" as AA, IIRC, has pretty much always had a large number of flights) Must be, he po
111 flyguy89 : Yes, but again, that doesn't make it profitable or sustainable, hence my argument that 5x daily BNA-LAX on three carriers is not sustainable. The key
112 Cubsrule : I don't know what numbers you are looking at, but I thought IND/CMH-LAX were both around 175 or 200 PDEW, significantly smaller than BNA-LAX.
113 bobnwa : What are the details of those companies agreements with AA on the BNA/LAX market? Is that mqrket contained in a separate contract or is a part of an
114 sxf24 : Despite assertions or insinuations to the fact, Sony does not have an exclusive travel contract on any route with AA.
115 flyguy89 : I'm simply going off the assertion he presented below: I agree and I'm aware their PDEW numbers to LAX are smaller, but BNA's totals alone don't warr
116 Cubsrule : I'm not sure BNA's totals warrant 4, to be honest, but I understand what AA is doing with the second frequency, and that is pretty innocuous.
117 mah4546 : AA is Sony Entertainment's preferred airline; so AA grabs most of that traffic. It's rare for an airline to have an exclusive contract, but something
118 UA787DEN : DL doesn't call LAX a hub. I do agree that the route in part started because of AA arriving on the RDU route. My bet is that it was on the list of po
119 Cubsrule : You've lost me. WN has been flying BNA-LAX for a decade or more and has historically had more frequency than AA.
120 PSU.DTW.SCE : BNA-LAX has a lot more than just entertainment traffic. There are connections with the automotive industry, logistics/distribution, and all major cons
121 Cubsrule : The other issue that is sort of peculiar to a market like BNA or RDU is that even within a period of heavy travel, loyalties may change because desti
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
DL To Start LAX-SAN posted Fri Jul 13 2007 19:25:16 by HVNandrew
DL To Start LAX-ICT posted Sat May 19 2007 20:37:44 by MAH4546
DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE posted Thu Dec 9 2004 19:33:02 by Iowaman
DL To Start RDU-ALB/PVD posted Fri Jan 7 2011 14:44:40 by cessna2
DL To Start LGA-BDA posted Tue Jul 10 2012 20:54:04 by spiritair97
DL To Start SYR-MSP (Again) posted Tue Apr 24 2012 09:14:52 by panam330
Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN? posted Tue Apr 17 2012 19:30:22 by HOONS90
DL To Start 2x Daily Yyzbos With CRJ posted Tue Sep 6 2011 19:30:08 by flyyul
DL To Start Narrowbody Replacement Study Early 2011 posted Fri Dec 17 2010 09:36:45 by OyKIE
DL To Start JFK-SNA On 7 September 2010 posted Mon Aug 2 2010 02:19:21 by laca773