Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 32498 times:
Happy new year, and time for a new thread.
Norwegian's next 737, LN-NGH, is scheduled to be delivered next week. With another (leased) aircraft, LN-NIC, to arrive in week four. Assembly of their first 787 should start towards the end of the month.
SAS is continuing with their MD-80 replacement. Two aircrafts, LN-RMO and OY-KGT, should be ferried to OSL for preparations before being sent to the US. After the summer season, only five MDs will be left, and in December 2013, the last three aircrafts will be parked.
So far only one A320 is in traffic, but the next one, OY-KAM, should start operating out of CPH mid-February. Next new 737-800, LN-NGC, is expected towards the end of January
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1839 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32344 times:
Three short months until SK starts their new service into SFO. This has been a long time in coming.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 31911 times:
Quoting downtown273 (Reply 1): Does this mean they're all operated by the very same aircraft, if there is only 1 in traffic?
As far as I know: Yes
But I have no idea when the two ex-Spanair aircrafts that has been painted into SAS colours and currently being stored/in maintenance/modification will be ready for traffic, and neither does any of my sources.
Right now, SAS is parking the MDs (also think a few 737CL just was withdrawn from service) a lot faster than new aircrafts are coming in. However, this is not a problem as January/February is a quiet period and the utilization rate of the MDs/CLs are rather low. So instead of having many parked aircrafts this winter, they simply reduced this by timing the withdrawal and deliveries of new aircrafts.
However, the assumption of approximately one A320 delivered on average per month, shouldn't too far off. In addition to 1 737-800, in January, April, May and June, + one more in H2 2013. And probably two 737-700s sometimes during this year, with four more following in 2014, together with the two last -800s on order from GECAS. I've heard April for the A340 from Airbus/LAN. But as usual: All this is subject to change
Quote: “Ryanair has a policy of not commenting on rumour or speculation."
Then:
Quote: "There is no truth to these claims. Ryanair’s 737 aircraft operate [at different certified weights] in full compliance with Boeing’s flex-weight programme, as certified and approved by the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA),” spokesman Stephen Mcnamara said.
Dunno, that sounds like a comment to me...
Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 30776 times:
Thai Airways with change of aircraft to ARN and increase to 9 weekly from CPH.
Quote: Bangkok – Copenhagen 05JUL13 – 18AUG13 Service increases from daily to 9 weekly, TG952/953 operates with new 2-class Boeing 777-300ER*
TG950 BKK0120 – 0740CPH 744 D
TG952 BKK1300 – 1320CPH 77W 57
Bangkok – Stockholm eff 16JUL13 New 2-class Boeing 777-300ER* replaces Boeing 747-400. Currently TG is displaying 777-300ER operation in Winter 2013/14 season, on/after 27OCT13
TG960 BKK0110 – 0700ARN 77W D
TG961 ARN1430 – 0550+1BKK 77W D
*THAI’s 2-class Boeing 777-300ER will be sold as 3-class, as 42-seater Royal Silk Class (Business Class) is sold as 24 Business and 16 Premium Economy.
There are also planned further changes from Scandinavia with Thai. I guess we will know in a few days now when they have started uploding their new schedule.
Mortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3228 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 30574 times:
Norwegian's first of 14 Boeing 737 800 to be delivered this year has just touched down iat OSL. First of 14 737 800's and there is also 3 787 800 to be delivered this year. Something to look forward to for sure
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29749 times:
SAS will in the S13 schedule use Cimber on 80 out of 90x weekly flights between CPH and AAR, as their ATR72s are a more suitable aircrafts on most of the flights on this route
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5300 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 29514 times:
Can't say this headline surprises me at all, kinda makes me happy to.
Quote: Norwegian Air loses bid for cheaper crews, for now
The Norwegian government has rejected a proposal that would allow Norway’s low-fare carrier Norwegian Air and other airlines to employ Asian residents on Norwegian-registed aircraft and compensate them with Asian-level pay and benefits, which generally are much lower than Norwegian levels. The decision is a blow to Norwegian Air’s plans for low-cost global expansion.
According to their PR from November 23rd 2012(!!): Air Sweden is starting a scheduled flight operation based in Umeå. In February next year, direct Flights will start between Umeå and London, Frankfurt, Paris. At the same time, Flights between Umeå and Arvidsjaur, Gällivare, Hemavan will start. This will provide all of northern Sweden with access to the large European cities through direct flights.
CO38 From Norway, joined May 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 29182 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15): Norwegian Air loses bid for cheaper crews, for now
The Norwegian government has rejected a proposal that would allow Norway’s low-fare carrier Norwegian Air and other airlines to employ Asian residents on Norwegian-registed aircraft and compensate them with Asian-level pay and benefits, which generally are much lower than Norwegian levels. The decision is a blow to Norwegian Air’s plans for low-cost global expansion.
Thank God for that!
Of course BK is now whining in the media saying he wants to flag-out planes and operations to another European country (i.e Sweden) because he didnt get his way in this matter!
You know what: Go ahead! But change the name of your company to "Swedish" or "Romanian", and start painting your tails with Romanian heros instead!
As a professional pilot I am very concerned about the way things are headed here in Europe, employment wise. Thanks to FR and DY (that follow FRs lead) by lowering employment conditions, (ultimately lowering safety) by offering 1-3 year contracts through a 3rd party like Parc Aviation. With no job-security the pilots we depend on flying us safely from A to B will be much more reluctant calling in sick when their employment status basically is a "Boeing 737-800 pilot substitute". Who knows, declaring yourself unfit for flight one to many times, and guess what; Your contract wont get re-newed!!!
I would seriously never recommend anyone to become a professional pilot if your planning to work in Europe!
But at least we still have WF, L5, DK and BLX still offering pay and conditions that makes the risk of an pilot education worth it!! (Updating my SK application is no longer exactly on top of my to-do list )
okobjorn From Denmark, joined Jun 2011, 32 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 29132 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15): SAS will in the S13 schedule use Cimber on 80 out of 90x weekly flights between CPH and AAR, as their ATR72s are a more suitable aircrafts on most of the flights on this route
Cimber taking over more DK domestic flights and Blue1 more intra-Scandinavian flights. Will we see SAS Commuter relived in a new form?
Next step: Cimber will take over the complete SAS CRJ fleet sometime soon?
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (4 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 28759 times:
Sun Express adds Oslo and Stockholm service from Izmir.
Airlineroute.net
Izmir – Oslo eff 02MAY13 NEW 1 weekly service
XQ952 ADB1550 – 1855OSL 738 4
XQ953 OSL2000 – 0055+1ADB 738 4
Izmir – Stockholm eff 28APR13 NEW 1 weekly service
XQ934 ADB0615 – 0900ARN 738 7
XQ935 ARN0950 – 1430ADB 738 7
SunExpress last operated service to Oslo and Stockholm in Summer 2010; Bremen in Summer 2011.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 28589 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Thread starter): So far only one A320 is in traffic, but the next one, OY-KAM, should start operating out of CPH mid-February
Seems like this already has been delivered to SAS, and that it is aircraft #3, OY-KAN which is in ZRH for modification, that will arrive in mid-FEB. The two former Spanair aircraft are also rumoured to arrive duirng February. #4 from Indigo, OY-KAO, is currently in OSR for paint before being sent to ZRH for modification
Next one for Norwegian, LN-NIE, (ln4330) had its first flight on Sunday.
thunderboltdrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 125 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28367 times:
Quoting debonair (Reply 17):
So, wouldn't it be time to start ticket sales or to publish a timetable?
They still don't have an operating license. This means that they are not allowed to sell tickets
or to start make advertising for tickets until they have the required licenses.
Despite that they have both advertised about tickets and also sold tickets.
So the Swedish Consumer Agency are not happy about this.
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3693 posts, RR: 34 Reply 28, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 28195 times:
Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 27): The brakes gets released at the arrival-gate before the ground crew gets to place the chocks
I really wonder if SAS release the brakes on the gate. Some airlines do, a lot don't. It used to be standard practice to always release the brakes to let the brakes cool down, but is rarely necessary today.
British Airways decided to keep the brakes on at all times. This started about 5 years ago after a couple of incidents like this. Has worked well. Pilots set the brakes on arrival at the gate. They only release them under the command of the ground crew on the headset.
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 29, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 27895 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 13): The next one for SAS, LN-RGC (c/n 41257 l/n 4321) is following just behind, and should have its first flight within a week or so
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 31, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 26988 times:
OY-KAN, SK's third A320 was delivered in CPH yesterday. Their first one is still in OSL with a door missing, which is supposed to arrive from the US this weekend
Flew with OY-KAM CPH-OSL yesterday, and was positively surprised about the comfort and legroom. Even almost at the very back the legroom was goog, and much better any other SAS airplane
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 26510 times:
Qatar airways will continue operate a cargo B777 on Tuesdays on OSL-DOH in addition to their normal A330-200/300 rotation. By this time, it seems like it will operate from now and thoughout the summer.
It also looks like Emirates from GOT could be on the move as EK cargo are staffing up at OSL.
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1032 posts, RR: 16 Reply 39, posted (3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 26043 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 38): I suggest you confront the SLOT coordinator of Swedavia and ARN. The open period of SLOT for handback expiered 4 days ago.
Could you please explain further what you mean here exactly. Slot handback? At ARN? What is happening with that Emirates route? You seem to have info about that process
arn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 165 posts, RR: 1 Reply 40, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 25697 times:
Quoting Navigator (Reply 39):
Could you please explain further what you mean here exactly. Slot handback? At ARN? What is happening with that Emirates route? You seem to have info about that process
The airlines apply for slots to airport coordinators at the airports something that can be done all year around. Airport coordination is essential at airports that have reached max capacity at peak hours, typically 07:00 to 10:00 when most airlines want to fly in/out. OSL as an example is full between 07:30 and 09:30. Airport coordinators at the airports handles all the applications before announcing which airlines receive which slots two times a year (November and June). However the airlines do not have to confirm back to the airport coordinators if they actually will use the received slot(s) until about two months after the slots have been announced. During these two months the airlines needs to decide if they want to use received slots or not. That date has passed for S13 meaning that EK now has confirmed to airport coordination ARN if they will use the received slots for the S13 or not (slot hand back).
On the other hand I do not know if ARN is at max capacity at hours EK want to fly in/out. If ARN is far from max capacity when EK want to fly in/out EK can feel comfortable about availability and in this way the situation about EK at ARN S13 can be unknown even if EK has handed back received slots. But usually the airlines will confirm anyway if the will use received slots or not by the deadline. That deadline has passed for S13.
So to sum it up slot coordination at ARN most likely know by now if EK comes to ARN S13 or not.
Top 10:
Trondheim -1,6%
Bergen -5,7%
Stavanger +2,0%
Copenhagen +2,7%
Stockholm -1,0%
Tromsø +4,3%
London +2,4%
Bodø -9,9%
Las Palmas +20,2%
Ålesund -4,5%
Seems like Las Palmas has taken over Amsterdam's ninth place, and they must a fallen quite a bit as Ålesund on the tenth place in down 4,5%. It also seems like the growth in domestic traffic has come to a halt
SAS767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 43, posted (3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 24963 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 33): It also looks like Emirates from GOT could be on the move as EK cargo are staffing up at OSL.
Don't know if they will move from GOT to OSL, but Emirates Skycargo will go online at CPH from the beginning of March. Operating DXB-CPH-ORD-CPH-DXB as EK9911/9912 with 777F.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 44, posted (3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 24724 times:
Quoting SAS767 (Reply 43): Don't know if they will move from GOT to OSL, but Emirates Skycargo will go online at CPH from the beginning of March. Operating DXB-CPH-ORD-CPH-DXB as EK9911/9912 with 777F.
Good news that both OSL and CPH can support a weekly cargo departure in addition to a daily rotation on their intercontinental services to the Gulf states. If I remember correctly, I think Turkish also have a weekly A310/330 to ARN.
CPH's Asian bound departure will operate on Mondays. That gives it zero interest for the NO fish market as there is no production on Saturdays and Sundays. I therefore can't see any link between adding staff at OSL because of new weekly departure from CPH. Also, CPH will be operated by the 777F, while GOT receives the 747F (3 weekly).
Emirates allready operated two daily truck departures from OSL feeding the GOT/CPH/FRA/HAM/AMS services with cargo.
it's a interesting sight on the road as it's some times operated by Trucks with Emirates livery.
I do not have the detail with me, but i think OSL-GOT operates on flight number EK43.. (Something) and EK9628.
The schedule is especially tuned into the GOT operations and their departures to DXB on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays. CPH receives NO freight on day 2,3,4,5&6. Daily departures to FRA/HAM/AMS.
Another ting is that EK is now on the move for a whole new strategy for Scandinavia. Both ARN and OSL received delegations from Emirates this fall. Out of that the buzz said ARN from June and OSL from October. Whether or not that time frame is realistic, only EK knows, but for OSL and ARN certainly not a matter of "if" but "when".
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (3 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 24014 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 7): There are also planned further changes from Scandinavia with Thai. I guess we will know in a few days now when they have started uploading their new schedule.
It took some time, but Thai has finally released a increase daily 777 to OSL S13 (mid summer only)
The new departures to operate on Tuesdays and Thursday's.
Just like with the increase to CPH, it makes sense to increase during the peak summer holiday season. Most schools in both Norway and Denmark are on summer break from mid/end-June to early August.
SAS is trying to do the same with increased frequency to BKK from mid-December.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 51, posted (3 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 23768 times:
Quoting ju068 (Reply 50): Unless there is a market close to Sandefjord I do not see how Wizz Air can compete. Not to mention that Norwegian offers a far superior product.
Sandefjord is a much cheaper airport to operate from and Wizz Air will surely offer much lower fares... that is very important for some people.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 52, posted (3 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 23960 times:
Wizzair is doing surprisingly well from Torp. Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think this is their twelfth service from Torp.
Most if not all of these destinations are already served by DY and FR from OSL and Rygge.
You have to remember that Torp serves a local marker of over 300.000 people that are in a circle if one hour drive from the airport by car (Drammen and the greater Oslo area excluded).
I was mostly referring to its distance from Oslo (118 km), that is why I am wondering if they can actually compete with Norwegian which is flying from a more centrally located airport.
My impression is that they have a very nice market share of the VFR trafic between the whole of Oslofjord-area/Easter Norway, which is quite substantial given all the work related immigration recently
Quoting ju068 (Reply 53): I was mostly referring to its distance from Oslo (118 km), that is why I am wondering if they can actually compete with Norwegian which is flying from a more centrally located airport
You don't need to go very far west of Oslo before Torp is the equal distance/travel time than OSL. Especially if you don't have a fast access to the trains
arn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 165 posts, RR: 1 Reply 56, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 23555 times:
http://newstodate.aero/ reports that the EK Skycargo route at CPH basically is full both ways not adding much extra capacity. Is this more of an tech stop between DXB and ORD? Can't the freighter make it all the way at max capacity?
Mortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3228 posts, RR: 2 Reply 57, posted (3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 23279 times:
Norwegian Reports a Pre-Tax Profit of 623 MNOK for 2012
Norwegian (NAS) today reported its fourth quarter and full year results for 2012. The company reports a pre-tax profit of 623 MNOK, an improvement of 457 MNOK compared to previous year. 2012 is charaterized by solid traffic growth and international expansion with the launch of several new routes and the establishment of new operational bases. Norwegian took delivery of 13 brand-new aircraft in 2012.
The company’s total fourth quarter revenues was 3.1BNOK, up 22 percent compared with the same quarter previous year. Earnings before taxes (EBT) was 23 MNOK, an improvement of 211 MNOK compared to fourth quarter 2011.The company carried 4.37 million passengers in the fourth quarter, an increase of 10 percent.
The total 2012 revenue was 12.9 BNOK, up 22 percent. Norwegian carried 17.7 million passengers in 2012, up 2 million (13 percent) compared to 2011. The load factor remains 79 percent.
SAS767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 58, posted (3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22940 times:
Quoting arn777 (Reply 56): http://newstodate.aero/ reports that the EK Skycargo route at CPH basically is full both ways not adding much extra capacity. Is this more of an tech stop between DXB and ORD? Can't the freighter make it all the way at max capacity?
It's called testing the market. A limited amount of space will be available ex. CPH for the time being, but things can change
SAS767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 59, posted (3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22940 times:
More easyJet flights between MAN and CPH - going from 7x to 9x a week from the beginning of May. Good news for Danish fans of Manchester United or Manchester City.
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 803 posts, RR: 4 Reply 60, posted (3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 22814 times:
Quoting SAS767 (Reply 59): Good news for Danish fans of Manchester United or Manchester City.
Maybe bad news for SAS since they now will face stiffer competion with two LCCs to the North West - Norwegian starting three weekly to LPL and easyJet with two more weekly to MAN. CPH has the last two months shown negative growth, but the flight to MAN has shown an opposite trend with strong growth (+17% in December) and that's without any changes to the number of flights. Will the Mancunians this spring see more CRJ900s?
sas767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 61, posted (3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 22342 times:
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 60): CPH has the last two months shown negative growth, but the flight to MAN has shown an opposite trend with strong growth (+17% in December) and that's without any changes to the number of flights. Will the Mancunians this spring see more CRJ900s?
AFAIK CPH has not shown negative growth for the last two months. Only for December with -0,4% in total but with positive growth in the international traffic.
Regarding the CPH-MAN route the number of schedule passenger flights is up in December - compared to the year before a Saturday flight has been added by easyJet. In addition easyJet has increased the capacity by using A320 on many flights instead of A319.
I'm quite sure there is room for both easyJet and SAS on the CPH-MAN route as the they serve a different market. BTW SAS will from the end of March increase the number of flights to MAN from 13 to 14.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 64, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 21852 times:
Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 63): If anyone is interested the BA780/781 service to ARN today 23 Feb will be operated by a B777 due shortage of B767 and the flight is fully booked.
Interesting. It seems that BA is doing very well out of ARN with the 777 full. I dont know if you have any numbers, but it would be nice to see how BA's growth has been at ARN.
TristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3693 posts, RR: 34 Reply 65, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21800 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 64): Interesting. It seems that BA is doing very well out of ARN
Yes ARN is in the top ten of European routes
But this weekend is special.
It is the start of Stockholm School Sports week so everything is full.
There were so many charters out of ARN this morning that four ski charters to Austria left from the domestic terminal. T4 as T5 was full.
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 803 posts, RR: 4 Reply 66, posted (2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 21449 times:
I can't tell you how well BA is doing it at ARN, but I can tell you how well ARN has done it the last 12-13 months. But since this a Scandinavian thread, I think it is reasonable to also include the two other capital airports in this and make it a comparison between the three. To do this I have used the traffic numbers UK CAA publish in their monthly reports. Below is a graph showing the yearly rolling passenger numbers.
At the end of January ARN showed a 1.3% decline from one year ago (-2,800 passengers), but three first months (Nov-Jan) of this Winter Season 2012/13 the passenger numbers grew with 1.8% (+15,538 passengers). The largest growth the last twelve months did OSL have with a 5.8% increase in passenger numbers (+36,504 passengers), but the Winter Season 2012/13 growth is almost identical in the number of passengers as ARN (+15,359 passengers) and that represent a 2.4% growth. CPH was almost half between ARN and OSL for the year growth with +18,142 passengers (+1.9%), but compared with the other two Scandinavian capital airports, the Winter Season hasn't been such a hit with +12,681 passenger (+1.3%).
If we look at single months results ARN was worst off with decline 8 of the last 12 months with September being the worst with a 9.8% decline. CPH had 5 months with decline and OSL had only two, April with a 1.8% decline I suspect due to the moving Easter holidays (March showed +8.6%) and then there is August and the Olympics with -0.9%. I don't know if it was the British that preferred to stay at home participating in the Olympic celebration, it was the Norwegians that preferred to see it on the telly at home or a combination of the both.
Comparing only airport pairs don't give a correct picture as long as London has four airports with traffic to the three Scandinavian capitals. But also the three Scandinavian capitals have more than one airport. Stockholm has two, Arlanda (ARN) and Skavsta (NYO), with London traffic. Copenhagen, or more correct the Oresund region has two too, Kastrup (CPH) and Malmo (MMX). The Oslofjord region has three airports with London traffic: in addition to Gardermoen (OSL) there is Moss Rygge (RYG) and Sandefjord Torp (TRF).
Stockholm showed the weakest numbers of the three regions with 1.7% decline (-26,383 passengers) year on year and 0.6% of them came the last three months (-8,630 passengers). The main reason for the relatively large growth in the Oresund region of 3.7% year on year (+61,843 passengers) comes mainly as a result of the introduction of Ryanair flights from Malmo to Stansted in November 2011. During this period there has also been a considerable move in market shares from STN to LGW from CPH. If this is also a move from easyJet to Norwegian I haven't had time to find out (numbers can be found by creative use of the trafikstyrelsen.dk database). The last three months shows negative results for the Oresund region (-0.3% and -5,931 passengers). The Oslofjord region shows only positive numbers with +5.1% (+64,072 passengers) year on year and +2.2% (+28,637 passengers) the last three months.
If we look at the single month results, again Stockholm is the worst off with decline all nine last months. Oresund has turned in to red the last two months with between 2.5% and 3.3% decline, while the Oslofjord region showed two months with decline this last summer (July and August) and again I think this can be related to the London Olympics. The Oslofjord region had also four months with double digit percentage growth the last 12 months (the Oresund region had only one month with double digit growth).
What conclusions can be drawn from the results above?
- In the Stockholm region there has been a clear move from Ryanair over to Norwegian, but the decline for FR has been larger than the increase at DY. The flights between NYO and LGW has also been closed down from November. As said before, since Transportstyrelsen/Swedavia has such a poor statistics available it is impossible to tell you what has happened between BA and SAS on LHR-ARN.
- In the Oresund region the decline CPH-STN match the growth at MMX. The close down of the CPH-LCY in June contributed negatively with 33,580 passengers for the last 12 months, but 2/3 of this was matched with the growth on CPH-LHR. The real growth at CPH has been to LGW with +76,307 passengers the last 12 months - in other words CPH is saved by the LCCs.
- Only one of the Oslofjord region airport pairs showed a negative result during the last year and that was RYG-LGW. The flights were also discontinued from November 2012. The two non-Avinor airports RYG and TRF contributed with a year on year growth of 16,355 passengers, but the Avinor airport OSL had almost three times as high growth with +47,717 passengers. BA and SAS contributed with the main share of this growth, but I'm guessing we will see changes in this with Norwegian increasing the frequencies and the opening of their LGW base in S2013.
sas767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 69, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 21007 times:
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 66): During this period there has also been a considerable move in market shares from STN to LGW from CPH. If this is also a move from easyJet to Norwegian I haven't had time to find out
The reason for the change in market share between STN and LGW is the switch easyJet in march 2012 did with their London flights from CPH. At this point of time STN was decreased from 3 to 2 flights a day while Gatwick was increased from 2 to 3 flights day.
Today easyJet did annonce that they will boost Gatwick capacity from CPH even more by adding a fourth daily flight on the route from the end of May. STN will remain 2x daily.
CPH will now be the 11th largest easyJet route out of Gatwick measured in available capacity.
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 66): In the Oresund region the decline CPH-STN match the growth at MMX. The close down of the CPH-LCY in June contributed negatively with 33,580 passengers for the last 12 months, but 2/3 of this was matched with the growth on CPH-LHR. The real growth at CPH has been to LGW with +76,307 passengers the last 12 months - in other words CPH is saved by the LCCs.
Again the decline in passengers on CPH-STN has nothing to do with the new Ryanair service at MMX, but is due to reduced capacity on the route by easyJet.
The growth on CPH-LHR (+8,2% in November, +4,6 in December and +3,6 in January) will probably continue through S13 due to increased capacity by British Airways, now operating 763 (since November) on one of the six daily flights to CPH.
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 803 posts, RR: 4 Reply 70, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 20870 times:
Quoting sas767 (Reply 69): The growth on CPH-LHR (+8,2% in November, +4,6 in December and +3,6 in January) will probably continue through S13 due to increased capacity by British Airways, now operating 763 (since November) on one of the six daily flights to CPH.
UK CAA report different passenger numbers for December 2012 (123 passengers/1 single flight unreported at CPH?) and November 2011 (332 passengers/1 return flight or 2 single flights over-reported at CPH?). Therefore the UK CAA number for the growth is November 2012 +8.6% and December 2012 +4.8%. This makes a sharper decline in growth the three last months, and since February this year don't have the leap day CPH will struggle to show a positive growth this month (a continued growth of 3.6% as in January with show up as 0% growth in February).
As for STN, I just compared passenger number changes (+ at MMX vs. - at CPH), not who did what and why.
sas767, you are in danger of saying if the capacity is raised the passengers will follow suit. This is absolutely not the case - in most cases one of the operators will win market shares while the competitor will loose shares, and it is not even necessarily the one offering more seats that win market shares.
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 71, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 20780 times:
SAS has had enough with the Norwegian ban on frequent flyer points on domestic routes and will from today offer this to customers travelling on corporate contracts. At the same time they are also taking the Norwegian government to court on this issue
kiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5300 posts, RR: 3 Reply 72, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 20616 times:
Maybe with points now on offer we might see a domestic lounges in Oslo, Bergen and Trondheim. Since they say business customers only you'll only get points if you use TPC to book your tickets?
sas767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 73, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20423 times:
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 70): UK CAA report different passenger numbers for December 2012 (123 passengers/1 single flight unreported at CPH?) and November 2011 (332 passengers/1 return flight or 2 single flights over-reported at CPH?). Therefore the UK CAA number for the growth is November 2012 +8.6% and December 2012 +4.8%. This makes a sharper decline in growth the three last months, and since February this year don't have the leap day CPH will struggle to show a positive growth this month (a continued growth of 3.6% as in January with show up as 0% growth in February).
December 2012 and January 2013 are not very good indicators of near future growth. Business traffic during the Christmas period 2012 was significant lower compared to 2011, due to the Christmas holiday pattern in 2012 - with a lot fewer workdays between Christmas and New Year. In the coming months I will not be surprised to see CPH-LHR with growth rates around 6-8% (February excluded).
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 70): sas767, you are in danger of saying if the capacity is raised the passengers will follow suit. This is absolutely not the case - in most cases one of the operators will win market shares while the competitor will loose shares, and it is not even necessarily the one offering more seats that win market shares.
How the market reacts to increased capacity depends a lot of the nature of the market - and therefore varies from market to market. The market to London is huge and I am quite sure that the additional capacity will be absorbed by the market. Due to the additional easyJet capacity on the CPH-LGW sector the S13 season will probably show a boost in the passenger numbers between CPH and LGW - and I will be very surprised if this is going to have any significant affect for the CPH-LHR market.
However how the additional capacity affects prises and yield is another story...
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 75, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20168 times:
SAS seems to accelerate the planned MD80 retirement from December 2013 to October 2013.
On the other hand, both they and Norwegian will each take delivery of a brand new 737-800 the next couple of weeks
Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 74): Michael O'Leary will visit TRF tomorrow, probably to announce new routes.
Torp to Barcelona and Zadar, most of the announcement besides this was the usual things about Avinor being bad and airline tickets being to pricey etc.....
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 78, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 19307 times:
As their 787 is delayed Norwegian will lease two A340-300 from HiFly as an interim solutions. Both aircrafts used to be operated by EK and SQ, and is LN190 (CS-TQY) and LN202 (CS-TQZ)
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 79, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 19076 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 78): As their 787 is delayed Norwegian will lease two A340-300 from HiFly as an interim solutions. Both aircrafts used to be operated by EK and SQ, and is LN190 (CS-TQY) and LN202 (CS-TQZ)
Some newspapers were reporting some time ago that DY had (or were close to leasing) a couple 767's (didn't state from where). But A340-300's seem like a much better interim solution.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 80, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 19075 times:
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 886 posts, RR: 0 Reply 82, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 18865 times:
Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 81): 12/42/213 (=267) for the A340s vs. 0/32/259 (=291) for the 787s.
And the 42 business seats in the A340 are probably a bit more comfortable than the 32 seats in the 787 that probably are more equal to premium economy.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
SASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 663 posts, RR: 1 Reply 83, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 18833 times:
Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 81): 12/42/213 (=267) for the A340s vs. 0/32/259 (=291) for the 787s.
Should be interesting to see who gets the 12 "first class" seats, or if they will just keep that cabin closed and as a crew rest? I guess these 340s are wet leased from HiFly'?
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 87, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 18592 times:
It all works against DY. Not only is the A343 fuel consumption higher, its capacity is less which will make it even harder for them to turn a profit on the routes to JFK and BKK. They might even have an oversell situation with the A343 seating less passengers.
DeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 92 posts, RR: 0 Reply 89, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 18513 times:
I haven't been able to find this anywhere so far, but apologies if it's been covered... now that KF is an operator for SK rather than a stand-alone operation, does SK intend to keep the B717s or is there a chance they will move those on and replace them with something else for the HEL-based network?
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 90, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18455 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 88): It's a wetlease, so it comes with pilots and everything needed
Will DY have to pay for the lease or will they get compensated by Boeing?
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 91, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18442 times:
Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 89): I haven't been able to find this anywhere so far, but apologies if it's been covered... now that KF is an operator for SK rather than a stand-alone operation, does SK intend to keep the B717s or is there a chance they will move those on and replace them with something else for the HEL-based network?
At the moment they intend to keep them, untill they change their mind
Quoting B747forever (Reply 90):
Will DY have to pay for the lease or will they get compensated by Boeing?
It's DY who's leasing the airplanes, and I guess they will try to get a compensation from Boeing to cover the difference in operating cost between wetleasing and operating these two vs what the two 787 fro ILFC would have cost. But haven't seen anything public here
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 92, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18441 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 91): I haven't been able to find this anywhere so far, but apologies if it's been covered... now that KF is an operator for SK rather than a stand-alone operation, does SK intend to keep the B717s or is there a chance they will move those on and replace them with something else for the HEL-based network?
At the moment they intend to keep them, untill they change their mind
If my eyes don't deceive me, I do believe I saw on the schedule that the 717 will do some CPH-ARN flying also.
Yes, it is DY that leases the aircraft, but it is because of Boeing's failure to deliver a promised aircraft. They should be hold liable for any costs incurred because of the delay.
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 93, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18304 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 92): If my eyes don't deceive me, I do believe I saw on the schedule that the 717 will do some CPH-ARN flying also
Yes, especially during the summer holiday they be "all over" the place, even domestic Norway. During the summer months, they will be doing quite a lot of flying on business heavy routes, as the traffic here is lower during the holiday. This implies that SAS than can pull out a 737-800/A321 often used here and use this on routes where the demand is high during the summer (i.e. Southern Europe), thus get a better right sizing of capacity as demand fluctuate during the year
Step one will be to establish a joint venture, were Swissport will own 51% and SAS 49%, and Swissport will be the managing partner. Further on SAS will gradually transfer their ownership to Swissport
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 95, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 18130 times:
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 97, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 17959 times:
bagmanlgw From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 13 posts, RR: 0 Reply 100, posted (2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17788 times:
Norweigan Airlines start their first phase of expansion at LGW with introduction of new summer sun routes and increased frequencies on scandinavian services at the end of the month
Gatwick managment already talking of further route increases from November onwards and again for Summer 2014
If true what and were do you think the expansion will be to and how many aircraft will be based at LGW come summer 2014
Flights only on sale till end of October from LGW but slowly being loaded from OSL at present so plans must be iat an advanced stage
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 101, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17427 times:
New intercontinental carrier to OSL will be presented tomorrow.
As rumors are allready out, it's Korean to Seoul operating Charter flights this summer.
Intentions of a regular service from next summer operating 2or 3 weekly.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 104, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 17106 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 103): Do you know with which equipment these flight will be operated?
Yes and no...
It was not set yet because of some issues presented bellow. However It could have changed recently with an aircraft now defined for this service.
There has been some issues regarding the bilateral agreements between Scandinavia and Russia regarding flying over Russian airspace to South Korea with passenger scheduled services. The very reason why they are not able to produce more flight this year. As far as I know, Korea is one of the countries in Asia with the fewest allowed flights to/from Scandinavia when you put Russian overflight bilateral together with the traffic rights between DK/SE/NO and South Korea. If i remember correctly I think it only allows 2 weekly or something like that.
The first interest from Korean to serve OSL started 5 years ago and this is the first intercontinental service ever that has been lifted to a political level in Norwegian foreign affairs. It was also a topic under the state visit from South Korea to Norway last fall. The last Norwegian delegation visited South korea before Christmas to finalize the launch.
Korean is probably one of the most conservative airlines in Asia when it comes to expansion. Processes take years to initiate and this is hopefully the first step into the planned scheduled service.
With China banning all direct services to Norway and Japan not covered directly from OSL, Korean can fill a potential gap with more than 150.000 annual pax traveling between OSL and China/Japan/Korea (even more for the whole of Norway). Ad a VERY lucrative cargo market and it's the reason why Korean now wants to serve OSL together with an increased tourist boom to Norway from Korea and Japan.
The job for OSL is now to gather all the interest of Business Travellers, Cargo market and this innovation Norway project to secure the sustainability of this planned regular service.
The interesting thing here is that Asiana is also sniffing in OSL as a pax service. They are now planning their third and fourth weekly cargo departure from this summer. Korean Cargo have also applied for a fourth weekly departure (I think its thursday or Friday rotation).
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 106, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 17027 times:
Another historic milestone reached today.
OSL is for the first time ever the largest airport in Scandinavia measured in monthly traffic.
CPH 1.594.715 pax in FEB (-1,6)
In FEB 2012, OSL reached 1.609.815 pax.
Avinor have already presented the estimated FEB 2013 numbers for OSL, that leads OSL to the title.
However OSL ate still waiting for some airlines to report, expected to further bring the numbers up.
OSL's numbers will be presented shortly in a proud press release
OSL is for the first time ever the largest airport in Scandinavia measured in monthly traffic.
CPH 1.594.715 pax in FEB (-1,6)
Congrats to OSL for finally getting the title. You can put the trophy on the shelf next to 'Scandinavian airport with most domestic traffic' and 'Scandinavian Capital Airport with least international traffic'. But I guess you will leave those details out of the press release
Atlanta is also the largest airport in the world in traffic numbers. But how about its international significance?? Air travel is and will remain an important player when it comes to travelling within Norway, which is reflected in the relative passenger numbers for domestic and international traffic. OSL's significance is therefore limited to its own home turf and Scandinavia.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 109, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 16953 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 108): But I guess you will leave those details out of the press release
Just like CPH will state they are the largest international airport in Scandinavia and leave out that they don't have the largest amount of passengers overall in their next press release.....
I am sure OSL will see more and more international traffic, and especially more intercontinental. EK are bound to start one day, now KE looks interested, and DY are set to start in May.
arn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 165 posts, RR: 1 Reply 110, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 16881 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 108): You can put the trophy on the shelf next to 'Scandinavian airport with most domestic traffic' and 'Scandinavian Capital Airport with least international traffic'. But I guess you will leave those details out of the press release
Wow..based on your reply it is quite clear that you are a tad bit bitter trying to rain OSL's parade. But then again I did not expect anything else.
Congrats to OSL! Now let's hope ARN get get things moving in the coming year and keep up.
Not bitter. Just saying it doesn't make much sense as being a large airport doesn't mean anything in itself unless you take a look at the numbers behind, which is why I mentioned the world's largest airport Atlanta because it mostly serves as a domestic hub.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
arn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 165 posts, RR: 1 Reply 112, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 16771 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 111): Not bitter. Just saying it doesn't make much sense as being a large airport doesn't mean anything in itself unless you take a look at the numbers behind, which is why I mentioned the world's largest airport Atlanta because it mostly serves as a domestic hub.
So the press releases airports in Scandinavia and airports in general highlighting number of total pax doesn't mean anything and is useless? Domestic pax is worth less than international pax?
Regarding ATL I guess you can add ORD, LAX and all the other American airports as well on the list of "airports with worthless traffic" because most traffic is domestic.
Should we compare apples and apples or apples and oranges EBGflyer....??
Congrats to my "Arab" brothers in the West keeping up the demand for high yield Scandinavian travelling in challenging economic times!!
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 113, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 16755 times:
Surely it doesn't matter whether or not it is domestic or international travellers?? For an airport all that matters is total passenger figures as it all means revenue for the operators.
Also OSL's international figures are increasing quite fast so even on that front it will probably start catching up soon.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 886 posts, RR: 0 Reply 114, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 16656 times:
Quoting arn777 (Reply 112): doesn't mean anything and is useless?
You are missing the point. In itself it does not mean much without looking further at the underlying numbers.
Quoting arn777 (Reply 112): Regarding ATL I guess you can add ORD, LAX and all the other American airports as well on the list of "airports with worthless traffic
I mentioned ATL as it in fact is the world's largest airport measured in traffic. ORD and LAX are further down the list and have substantially more international traffic relatively.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 113): Surely it doesn't matter whether or not it is domestic or international travellers??
Sure, for the one's cashing in, it does matter. But perhaps not to a prospective candidate airline. They will look at what demand to expect.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 113): Also OSL's international figures are increasing quite fast
Indeed, and it probably will for the foreseeable future.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
Airports, IATA and the media rank airports based on pax numbers. They always have and they always will. You can break things down, look at underlying numbers several stages down, reasons behind all underlying numbers and facts and at the end find information that backs up your agenda. But at the end it is about who is in the lead. You can have the best team in the world but it doesn't matter if you don't score goals.
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 886 posts, RR: 0 Reply 116, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16458 times:
Quoting arn777 (Reply 115): But at the end it is about who is in the lead. You can have the best team in the world but it doesn't matter if you don't score goals.
Probably depends who you ask. Airlines are interested in sustainable demand when looking into starting new routes. ATL leads the pack, but doesn't attract a whole lot of international routes.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
But this was about being the biggest airport/airport with the highest pax numbers, not "which airport might be of interest to some airlines based on a number of underlying factors".
Off course you do and based on your comment above we all know how you feel about the title in addition to your agenda. Anything else would be a surprise.
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 803 posts, RR: 4 Reply 121, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16165 times:
It's also interstering to turn around EBGflyer's comment: Of the Scandinavian capital airports CPH is the airport with the least domestic connections - i.e. it's only a local airport for the Oresund region, not a national hub.
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 886 posts, RR: 0 Reply 122, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16150 times:
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 121): the airport with the least domestic connections
Not so strange is it and what is your point? Denmark is small country compared to Sweden and Norway and CPH can be reached conveniently by train from many parts of the country.
And then there is competition. From the two airports in Denmark BLL and AAL there are plenty of connections to AMS and FRA, just like there is from many of the airports in Southwestern Norway. And if you are from in the south of Jutland it's probably easier to leave from HAM.
A national hub? Do all Norwegians travel through OSL and would they want to?
[Edited 2013-03-13 05:05:51]
[Edited 2013-03-13 05:57:39]
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1032 posts, RR: 16 Reply 123, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16129 times:
Quoting arn777 (Reply 112): Domestic pax is worth less than international pax?
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 121): It's also interstering to turn around EBGflyer's comment: Of the Scandinavian capital airports CPH is the airport with the least domestic connections - i.e. it's only a local airport for the Oresund region, not a national hub.
Train connections are as important as domestic flight connections when it comes to creating demand for international flights. Both ARN and CPH have large numbers of passengers connecting via their train stations from other parts than the cities they serve. CPH has the Öresund bridge connection and ARN has trains coming in from north. Each passenger coming in via trains like this is as important as a connecting domestic passenger.
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 886 posts, RR: 0 Reply 124, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16077 times:
Seems like Kjos and Co has some long haul news to reveal on a press conference in CPH tomorrow. According to check-in.dk the rumor says it could be a route from CPH to Florida. Any further info on this?
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
Norwegian will fly twice a week between Copenhagen (CPH) and Fort Lauderdale (FLL), on Mondays and Fridays. Departure from Copenhagen is at 14:45, arriving in FLL at 19:30 local time. Departure from FLL is at 21:30, arriving CPH at 12:45 the next day. The first flight is November 29. From 14 February flights will be increased to 3 weekly.
Stockholm - Fort Lauderdale twice a week
Norwegian will fly twice a week between Stockholm (ARN) and Fort Lauderdale (FLL), on Thursdays and Sundays. Departure from ARN is at 14:45, arriving FLL at 19:30 local time. Departure from FLL is at 21:30, arriving ARN at 13:00 the next day. The first flight is December 1." No mention whether flights will increase to 3 weekly like from CPH, but I assume they will.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
Newstodate posted an article about QR Cargo's performance in the Nordics:
From their Facebook page:
Gulf carrier with a grip on the Nordics adding new freighter
The Doha-based Gulf carrier Qatar Airways has now taken delivery of its second Airbus A330-200F freighter aircraft.
The carrier has placed orders for delivery of a total of three Airbus A330-200F on a lease contract with BOC, and will expand its current fleet comprising also three Airbus A330-600ERF that will be gradually replaced as the new A330-200F aircraft arrive, as well as four Boeing 777F freighters.
In the belly-hold cargo segment, Qatar Airways Cargo is a strong player also in the Nordic scene where it held the #1 position in Norway with 1,199 tonnes, the #4 position in Denmark with 484 tonnes, and the #5 position in Finland with 172 tonnes in January 2013, the latest period reported by CASS.
In addition to the capacity on passenger aircraft, Qatar Airways has also from January 2013, been operating a weekly Boeing 777F freighter into Oslo, Norway, as an en-route stop on the flight from Amsterdam to Doha, with onward connection to Asian destinations.
-------------------
A very strong posistion in Norway already, but Finland? They have not entered the Finnish market yet. Is this handled via ARN?
sas767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 130, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 15272 times:
I know a lot of our Norwegian "friends" have been waiting for years to see OSL pass CPH in passenger numbers, so I think this deserves a congratulation - despite the fact that they needed help from Cimber Sterling, Malev and Spanair to pass CPH
Lovely discussion in the previous posts about this subject and international vs. domestic passengers - but a passenger is a passenger so when we look at the total volume it is a fact that OSL had more passengers then CPH in February. But (there is always a but) it is also a fact that the volume at OSL to a high degree is driven by domestic passengers - compared to CPH. If Denmark had the same geography and infrastructure as Norway, CPH would allready have passed 30 million passengers a year.
Another good thing is that the title as Scandinavians largest airport only has been borrowed to OSL for a short period. The negative impact on the traffic figures at CPH due to the bankruptcy of Cimber Sterling, Malev and Spanair will be levelled out during spring and from May the impact will be gone. In fact May will probably be a game changer as this is the first month where the effect from the Cimber Sterling (until May last year the third largest operator at CPH) bankruptcy will be eliminated and thus no longer effecting the passenger figures at CPH.
As a matter of fact Norwegian will in May 2013 increase the seat capacity at CPH with approx. 40% compared to 2012 (over 800 additional flights from/to CPH in May). If they manage to fill around 70% of the added capacity Norwegian alone will grow with over 100.000 passengers at CPH in May. Easyjet will also in May increase capacity with around 20% bringing in 25.000-30.000 additional passengers compared to last year. Expect this scenario to continue during the rest of S13 - however with decreasing growth rates when we comes closer to fall 2013.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 131, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15163 times:
Quoting sas767 (Reply 130): As a matter of fact Norwegian will in May 2013 increase the seat capacity at CPH with approx. 40% compared to 2012 (over 800 additional flights from/to CPH in May). If they manage to fill around 70% of the added capacity Norwegian alone will grow with over 100.000 passengers at CPH in May. Easyjet will also in May increase capacity with around 20% bringing in 25.000-30.000 additional passengers compared to last year. Expect this scenario to continue during the rest of S13 - however with decreasing growth rates when we comes closer to fall 2013.
Thanks for your post, but are you sure that your numbers are correct?
I do not doubt your source, I'm just a bit confused as I have seen articles presenting that DY will not add more planes based at CPH in S 13 compared to S12. However flights to some of the spanish destinations will be served by Spanish based planes together with UK based planes from LGW. That will free up capacity, but that is not exclusively for CPH.
The same will happen to OSL, ARN, HEL, GOT and other destinations. OSL have significantly more traffic with DY to Spain than CPH, so there is even more free capacity used for expansion from OSL this summer. The increase on the Scandinavian Capital triangle this spring will also add the same numbers of pax in the other end.
In addition, DY have squeezed in an additional aircraft from OSL S13. HEL also receives new aircraft to it's base and I think Stockholm also got added capacity, but I do not remember how many aircraft.
So yes, Copenhagen will get increased capacity by Norwegian, but there is even more increased capacity planned from the other bases. But as for Easyjet and the impressive numbers of new and increased capacity on existing carriers S13I O I do follow your point.
But there is another thing regarding DY and DU that few have seen to notice and that could bring more focus to CPH and ARN in the future. Norwegian are in a deep dispute with The Norwegian government regarding operation issues from BKK and aircraft registration. The latest and future communicsted potential launches is clearly to put political pressure on the politicians. Kjos have stated that they will not be able to expand from Norway if their demands are not approved. He is also pulling out the knife in the last press release regarding FLL to tje Norwegian goverment. The planned tuesday and Saturday rotation FLL-OSL-FLL is still on hold in the program and I have little doubt that Kjos will use it to other destinations if he is not heard by the politicians.
If it's a good strategy or not, it's not for me to judge. I also think they got less attention from the media and public on the topic, expect from some articles. What is clear though is that its a golden opportunity for CPH to get more of DU's focus.
If one thing is certain, it's that CPH will use it for everything its worth.
So I think CPH will have a very bright future with DU/DU in the years to come if things are not setteled up north.
SAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 693 posts, RR: 0 Reply 132, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 14995 times:
Quoting sas767 (Reply 130): fact that OSL had more passengers then CPH in February. But (there is always a but)
If i am not mistaken,i recall that i read that if you look 33 moths back,February was the first month that the traffic at OSL actually was decreasing.....was there a similar pattern at CPH perhaps in passenger numbers in Feb?
I have understood that this issue is very important to some of our Norwegian and Danish friends
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1032 posts, RR: 16 Reply 133, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 14914 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 131): But there is another thing regarding DY and DU that few have seen to notice and that could bring more focus to CPH and ARN in the future. Norwegian are in a deep dispute with The Norwegian government regarding operation issues from BKK and aircraft registration.
I doubt that this dispute will have any effect on planned routes for Norwegian. They base all planned new routes on market evaluations and yields. Even if they registered the company and planes in Sweden they would still be able to fly from Norway to any extent they would find suitable.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 134, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 14912 times:
Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 132):
If i am not mistaken,i recall that i read that if you look 33 moths back,February was the first month that the traffic at OSL actually was decreasing.....was there a similar pattern at CPH perhaps in passenger numbers in Feb?
I have understood that this issue is very important to some of our Norwegian and Danish friends
February 2013 had one day less than February 2012, which equals around 3,5%. When looking on travellers/day it is actually an increase
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 135, posted (2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 14863 times:
Quoting Navigator (Reply 133): I doubt that this dispute will have any effect on planned routes for Norwegian. They base all planned new routes on market evaluations and yields. Even if they registered the company and planes in Sweden they would still be able to fly from Norway to any extent they would find suitable.
I hope we all agree on that the launch of services to markets with the best options for sustainable economical success is always the mission of an airline.
It's a fact that DU won't launch any new IC service from Norway until they find a solution with the government.
They will use the focus on other countries to put pressure on the their case.
The conservatives have a giant leap in front of the ruling labour party with one of the most exiting elections in decades coming up in few months. Several political parties have already quoted their support and are expressing their concerns for the consequences if DU are not able to operate through their planned base and crew modell.
This is nothing but politics and a well known issue for the persons involved at OSL.
That being said, OSL and Norway have smaller market potential to many of the destinations planned served, than from ARN, LGW, CPH, HEL and other airports (also the other way around). However many in Avinior still thinks and expect the opposite, bringing a relaxed and expected attitude towards DU's next destinations. They will hopefully wake up in a very cold shower when they face the reality and realise that they their neighbouring airports can offer significantly better support and flexibility to secure more services. OSL will of course like any other airports just get the services where their potential is attractive enough. However FLL and the other destinations in the pipeline will be used as a political tool for everything it's worth!
sas767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 136, posted (2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 14615 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 131): Thanks for your post, but are you sure that your numbers are correct?
I do not doubt your source, I'm just a bit confused as I have seen articles presenting that DY will not add more planes based at CPH in S 13 compared to S12. However flights to some of the spanish destinations will be served by Spanish based planes together with UK based planes from LGW. That will free up capacity, but that is not exclusively for CPH.
The same will happen to OSL, ARN, HEL, GOT and other destinations. OSL have significantly more traffic with DY to Spain than CPH, so there is even more free capacity used for expansion from OSL this summer.
The figures are correct. Right after the Cimber Sterling bankruptcy last year the 3rd of May, Norwegian decided to increase the CPH base from 9 to 11 planes. The two additional frames did however not arrive at CPH until June - and due to the short planing horizon the utilization of the two additional frames were not optimal during S12.
In S13 the CPH base will stand at 11 frames, but due to a longer planning horizon it will be possible to utilize the capacity better compared to S12. In addition the majority of the flight between CPH and Alicante/Malaga will in S13 be served with planes from these Spanish bases - to a much larger extent then it is the case with the OSL-Alicante/Malaga flights.
Are you sure OSL have significant more traffic with DY to Spain compared with CPH? Let's take a look at the number of weekly flights from OSL/CPH to Spain in the last week of May (27th of May to 2nd of June).
OSL:
AGP: 9 flights (2 of 9 operated by AGP based planes)
ALC: 10 flights (2 of 10 operated by ALC based planes)
BCN: 11 flights
MJV: 1 flight
LPA: 4 flights (1 of 4 operated by LPA based planes)
PMI: 4 flights
Total OSL: 39 flights (5 out of 39 operated by Spain based planes)
CPH:
AGP: 13 flights (10 of 13 operated by AGP based planes)
ALC: 6 flights (6 of 6 operated by ALC based planes)
BCN: 14 flights
LPA: 2 flights (1 of 2 operated by LPA based planes)
MAD: 4 flights
PMI: 7 flights
Total CPH: 46 flights (17 out of 46 operated by Spain based planes)
Due to the above the Norwegian seat capacity out of CPH will in May be around 40% higher compared to last year. This number will decrease in the remaining part of the S13 season with a capacity increase of about 20%.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 137, posted (2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 14542 times:
Quoting sas767 (Reply 136): Due to the above the Norwegian seat capacity out of CPH will in May be around 40% higher compared to last year. This number will decrease in the remaining part of the S13 season with a capacity increase of about 20%.
Well for for May I See your point, however S13 includes 5 more months and the "new" capacity is mostly replacing the Cimber capacity, following the previous growth rate since the collapse.
Your numbers are not correct because you are not bringing inn the flights cowered from the LGW Base, and you have not adjusted your numbers for the increased capacities on the routes already covered. You must also make a comparison for the whole S13 and not a week in May. There are also services with reduced capacity and that has been suspended.
What we can agree on is that DY are expanding further, hopefully bringing healthy growth to all it's bases.
sas767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 138, posted (2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 14491 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 137): Well for for May I See your point, however S13 includes 5 more months and the "new" capacity is mostly replacing the Cimber capacity, following the previous growth rate since the collapse.
No it's not replacing Cimber Sterling capacity! Cimber Sterling went bankrupt the 3rd of May 2012 and hence their capacity in May 2012 was equal to zero and in the rest of S12 zero. So from May and onward there is no capacity to replace, and one of the reasons why you will see higher growth rates at CPH during S13. So 100.000 additional Norwegian passengers in May will not (year-on-year) need to add up for lost Cimber Sterling traffic.
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 137): Your numbers are not correct because you are not bringing inn the flights cowered from the LGW Base, and you have not adjusted your numbers for the increased capacities on the routes already covered. You must also make a comparison for the whole S13 and not a week in May. There are also services with reduced capacity and that has been suspended.
None of the numbers I have presented are incorrect - let us get that straight. I was just responding to your quote that the DY traffic from OSL is significant larger then at CPH. This is not true and as a matter of fact it is the other way around - another point was to state the change in the Spain traffic from CPH, where AGP and ALC based planes will fly a major part of the traffic program. This will year-on-year release capacity at the CPH base that can be used at other destinations - this is where the growth for DY at CPH in S13 comes from although they stay at 11 based frames.
Talking about LGW there will be no changes for the CPH operation and for OSL a fourth daily flight will be added operated with a LGW based plane. This is of course additional capacity for DY at OSL, but year-on-year it will not release capacity at the OSL base to be used other places.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 139, posted (2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 14338 times:
Quoting sas767 (Reply 138): .None of the numbers I have presented are incorrect - let us get that straight.
A bit difficult to get you straight when you do not count the numbers for more than one month!
For instance, DY's OSL program for the following month of June has 195 departures to Spain, July 240 and August 212. It's more than the program released for Copenhagen, but I will give you the night to calculate how much
If you also bring the 119 Flights from the other two airport's of OSL for the same period, I think it's fair to reinstated the expression used in an earlier post. The latter goes for the whole S13 IATA period as well.
But you are right on one thing. According to the released schedule, CPH beats OSL with more flights to Spain in May.
But I See little reason to continue this. There are several other factors involved that has not been brought up for this discussion. We will See this summer how it turns out when the numbers of sold seats will be accounted for.
sas767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 141, posted (2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13939 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 139): For instance, DY's OSL program for the following month of June has 195 departures to Spain, July 240 and August 212. It's more than the program released for Copenhagen, but I will give you the night to calculate how much
If you also bring the 119 Flights from the other two airport's of OSL for the same period, I think it's fair to reinstated the expression used in an earlier post. The latter goes for the whole S13 IATA period as well.
The discussion started out with May and the reason why I used this month as foundation for the comparison between OSL and CPH. But fair enough let's take a look a the week from the 22nd of July to 28th of July. Number of Norwegian flights from OSL to Spain: 54. Number of Norwegian flights from CPH to Spain: 49.
The conclusion is that during off-season you have the highest number of flights from CPH, while in the high-season you have the highest number from OSL. Seen over the entire S13 season I believe you will find that the number of flights from OSL and CPH to Spain are more or less similar. If you see this as being significant more from OSL compared to CPH then fine for me - and then you are welcome yo bring in TRF, RYG or whatever you want but this was not included in your original statement. I believe you got a little surprised to see how much capacity Norwegian brings to the market between CPH and Spain this coming simmer.
But the above is a detour based on where we started - the traffic figures at CPH and OSL and the growth rates. The last 12 months the traffic figures at CPH has been negative effected by a number bankruptcies with Cimber Sterling having the largest impact - the third largest operator at CPH with over 150.000 passengers at month in the summer period.
A lot of the Cimber Sterling capacity has been replaced by other operators but still I believe it is quite impressive that CPH has been able to keep positive growth rates for the majority of the last 12 months. From May and onward the negative impact from the Cimber Sterling bankruptcy will be gone - and so it will be interesting to see how this effects the growth rate at CPH compared to OSL and ARN...
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 143, posted (2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13456 times:
Some SAS fleet development this week:
LN-BUC, a 737-500, has left the fleet for the scrapper. SE-RJE, one of the two planned ex-Spanair A320 (owned by SAS) arrived in CPH this week, so guess should soon be in traffic. In addition, another 737-800, LN-RGD, is supposed to have its customer acceptance flight at Renton today and should soon be delivered SAS
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 147, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12905 times:
I think one of the secrets to OSL getting bigger and bigger is the fact that P2P travel is now very much in vogue. Previously almost all intercontinental and some other international traffic was rerouted through CPH or other European hubs. Now, there are more and more direct options from OSL, which unfortunately have had some impact on routes out of the likes of CPH and ARN. I think we will see this trend continue with the arrival of new airlines to OSL... Also, if SAS could change its strategy of rerouting passengers through CPH, I think there could be scope for more viable long haul routes from OSL. Unfortunately they do not have the metal at the moment for this.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 148, posted (1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12574 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 143): In addition, another 737-800, LN-RGD, is supposed to have its customer acceptance flight at Renton today and should soon be delivered SAS
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 150, posted (1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12247 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 149): Anyone notice the announcement that SAS will be dropping interEuropean C class in June? Article in English
Yep, I set up a seperate thread for it .
Wise move.. Y+ on short flights is a bit silly really, although I think the rebranding of J and Y is a little bit silly too! Makes it sound like an LCC!
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
teme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 155, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11510 times:
There is rumors that in effort to save SK the governments of Norway, Denmark and Sweden have been secretly talking to Finnish government about the AY buying the longhaul parts of SK and and creating AY hub to CPH and it would focus to N. America flights. After this they would turn the remaining SK to new LCC named APF Airline System.
SAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 693 posts, RR: 0 Reply 157, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11367 times:
Quoting teme82 (Reply 155): There is rumors that in effort to save SK the governments of Norway, Denmark and Sweden have been secretly talking to Finnish government about the AY buying the longhaul parts of SK and and creating AY hub to CPH and it would focus to N. America flights. After this they would turn the remaining SK to new LCC named APF Airline System.
APF Airlines........ Aprils fools airlines.... . Hope you didn't took this to seriously my friend
Doona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3707 posts, RR: 14 Reply 159, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11251 times:
Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 157): APF Airlines........ Aprils fools airlines.... . Hope you didn't took this to seriously my friend
SK did have their own little April fools joke on Facebook today. Supposedly, the airline was launching a collaboration with Facebook and installing "like" buttons on their passenger service units, complete with a photo of the new units. A pretty crappy 'shop-job though.
Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
KaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12027 posts, RR: 43 Reply 160, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11222 times:
Quoting Doona (Reply 159): SK did have their own little April fools joke on Facebook today. Supposedly, the airline was launching a collaboration with Facebook and installing "like" buttons on their passenger service units, complete with a photo of the new units. A pretty crappy 'shop-job though.
Yes it is. Initially Denim Air actually wanted Fly Nonstop to use F100. But apart from that I dont have any else information on how this actually will work if the embrear gets tech-issues.
And here we have the new livery to DY..... Nice joke
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 162, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10951 times:
Quoting Invaders (Reply 161): Yes it is. Initially Denim Air actually wanted Fly Nonstop to use F100. But apart from that I dont have any else information on how this actually will work if the embrear gets tech-issues.
I guess Denim might have some spare capacity somewhere?
SAS continues to look into IAH and this time from CPH. Another one-stop from SVG and OSL to IAH - not what the market needs really.
Well I have some difficulties regarding Check-in.dk as the reliable source here, but I must admit that it does not come as a surprise that others are in for securing Houston. The development is also interesting as it brings up the middle finger towards Avinor and OSL who relies on a forthcoming launch from Norway. Hopefully this could sharpen their effort.
Securing this service from CPH would most definitely fit into their strategy of bringing in high yield transfer traffic.
However, it's a risky game when almost 5 out of 7 pax to/from Scandinavia originates in Norway. The size of the aircraft is also an issue with transfer beyond Scandinavia needed to cover up a wide body frame.
Here are the numbers from 2012 based on actual bookings. This is also the numbers used by SAS in the process of a Houston Service.
From Scandinavia
Norway 48.000 pax
Denmark 16.000 pax
Sweden 9.000 pax
From Norway:
OSL 18.000 pax
SVG 16.000 pax
( the rest mainly from Ålesund, Trondheim and Bergen)
The interesting thing here is the average price paid pr ticket.
From OSL and SVG it was almost equal with $2.200.
From CPH it was $1.300.
So if the service originates from CPH, it will be 100% depending on the NO traffic.
With good connections to OSL and SVG, they have an argument with the current nonsense of custom clearance in OSL.
However, Statoil and other major costumers to Houston have said that they are only interested in direct services from their main port if they are to be involved in securing Houston from Scandinavia.
To what extend that is negotiable, I have no idea.
Fighting against AMS, FRA and LHR could be difficult with most airlines very eager to secure NO connections through their hubs.
The one thing that could work in favor of CPH is their relations and thriving work with larger network airlines. An extension of SQ, EK or other to Houston would bring in enough transit to secure the foundation of a service. Look at Moscow and SQ,
I really hope this article brings some attention to Espen Ettre and OSL. A service is not granted from OSL even if the market potential says so.
It should also be said that Eivind Roald is regarded as a free talking member of the SAS family who usually brings a lot of frustration between sales department and network planning by presenting plans as realities. This goes for presented route suggestions throughout their whole network and from all the Scandinavian countries. That’s a thought shared by many people in the industry. I would not trust him to much….
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5300 posts, RR: 3 Reply 165, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10347 times:
Quoting arn777 (Reply 163): SAS continues to look into IAH and this time from CPH. Another one-stop from SVG and OSL to IAH - not what the market needs really.
They already have a one stop service with KLM which the market have taken too, connections via AMS has made KLM the largest foreign carrier operating out of Norway, which I guess is why SAS are looking into it, just a little too late though.
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 166, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10338 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 165): They already have a one stop service with KLM which the market have taken too, connections via AMS has made KLM the largest foreign carrier operating out of Norway, which I guess is why SAS are looking into it, just a little too late though.
There is also a one stop service via LHR with BA now that they have restarted SVG and begun flying into BGO.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 170, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9634 times:
kiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5300 posts, RR: 3 Reply 171, posted (1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9217 times:
Here's an interesting article about a SVG IAH service. It talks about using a long range 737 or A320 aircraft instead of one of the existing longhaul fleet.
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 173, posted (1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9193 times:
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 171): Here's an interesting article about a SVG IAH service. It talks about using a long range 737 or A320 aircraft instead of one of the existing longhaul fleet.
Now could something like Privatair or BA A318 work? An all-J class narrowbody. This might also be a strategy to keep the business travel between Stavanger and Houston in premium cabins. An employer might in the future rethink Y class vs J Class, and choose Y class for the lower cost, but given the choice of J-class nonstop vs Y-class one-stop, I'd think many employers in that field might choose the non-stop option.
I know that the A318 doesn't have the legs, but an A319 (with the extra fuel tanks) might be able to do it in an all-J class configuration. Still a long flight though at 4210nm.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 174, posted (1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9143 times:
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 171):
Here's an interesting article about a SVG IAH service. It talks about using a long range 737 or A320 aircraft instead of one of the existing longhaul fleet.
Just out of interest would the runway at SVG be capable of handling the A330/340's?
A wide body service was just wild speculations from check-in.dk. This service has always been discussed to be served by a smaller aircraft. SAS presented a triangular suggestion connecting Houston - Stavanger - Oslo last fall.
UA has twice proposed a similar suggestion using a 757 with weight restrictions. However SK has not been to keen on the idea. Let's hope it's something more certain this time.
kiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5300 posts, RR: 3 Reply 176, posted (1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9086 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 174): This service has always been discussed to be served by a smaller aircraft.
But SAS don't have the aircraft for it do they?
I also think they would be better off going from OSL, Statoil, Aker Solutions and several others have there head offices in Oslo and from what I understand there are more O&G engineering jobs now in Oslo than there are in Stavanger.
A very good question. They do not have the aircraft and no matter how this ends up, it will be a VERY costly affair.
Money SK should not risk on such bold game with both wings down in the Greek mud.
I rather see UA on this service to secure it's presence for longer that 3 months.
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1032 posts, RR: 16 Reply 178, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8920 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 177): A very good question. They do not have the aircraft and no matter how this ends up, it will be a VERY costly affair.
Money SK should not risk on such bold game with both wings down in the Greek mud.
I rather see UA on this service to secure it's presence for longer that 3 months.
But what about all those other routes incl Emirates to Stockholm that has been so widely talked about. You had firm signs here didnt you? What is the status?
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 179, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8832 times:
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 176):
I also think they would be better off going from OSL, Statoil, Aker Solutions and several others have there head offices in Oslo and from what I understand there are more O&G engineering jobs now in Oslo than there are in Stavanger.
Statoil's head office is actually in Stavanger. In Forus if I recall... so not a million miles away from Sola.
The majority of foreign companies have their Norwegian offices in Stavanger and most of the off-shore work originates there. Previously the Norwegian government were reluctant to introduce a long haul flight into SVG as they believed it would disadvantage Oslo, however regulations have changed and there is a bit more pragmatism!
For example, if the decision had been made today to build a new hub airport in Oslo, it would most definitely not have been built at Gardermoen.
Anyway, I think a joint venture between SAS and UA could be good here using UA metal (a 767-200 should be able to do the route without weight restrictions and with a similar number of passengers as the 757 with more cargo capacity). IAH-SVG-OSL could also work I guess.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 181, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8790 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 179): Statoil's head office is actually in Stavanger. In Forus if I recall... so not a million miles away from Sola
Official yes, in practice.....that is open for discussion, ref Kiwirob's post
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 180): A big new head office is being built in Fornebu on the site of the old airport.
It's already been built, and they moved in a few months ago
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 179): Anyway, I think a joint venture between SAS and UA could be good here using UA metal (a 767-200 should be able to do the route without weight restrictions and with a similar number of passengers as the 757 with more cargo capacity). IAH-SVG-OSL could also work I guess
UA is in the process of disposing their 767-200 fleet, although the 787 issues created some delays
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 179): For example, if the decision had been made today to build a new hub airport in Oslo, it would most definitely not have been built at Gardermoen.
First of all, I don't see what this has to do with the discussion? And can't see what have changed regarding why it should not have been built at Gardermoen
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 179): The majority of foreign companies have their Norwegian offices in Stavanger and most of the off-shore work originates there.
Those going to Houston are not necessary those that goes offshore And do you have facts/documentation regarding the claim that "The majority of foreign companies have their Norwegian offices in Stavanger "
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 176): But SAS don't have the aircraft for it do they?
No, and if the route starts it will probably not be operated by a SAS aircraft
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 177): They do not have the aircraft and no matter how this ends up, it will be a VERY costly affair.
Money SK should not risk on such bold game with both wings down in the Greek mud
Isn't this why they are searching for guaranties, etc, from the oil industries, before they decide to start this route?
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 176): from what I understand there are more O&G engineering jobs now in Oslo than there are in Stavanger
I think you might be correct. The production sites, bases, and more operational business are typically based along the Westcoast, while the engineerings not necessary are sitting there.
And there is a reason why (parts of ?) the stretch between Oslo and Lier is about to get the nickname: Subsea Valley
kiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5300 posts, RR: 3 Reply 182, posted (1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8720 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 181): It's already been built, and they moved in a few months ago
It's been a while since I was in Fornebu, last time it was just a construction site, it's a fantastic looking building. I'd be interested seeing the finished product.
Quoting someone83 (Reply 181): Those going to Houston are not necessary those that goes offshore
Too right, those in offshore jobs in Norway are mainly working on the Norwegian shelf, although a lot of Norwegian offshore workers reside in Spain (my father in law was planning on moving to Spain before he died, he was an offshore worker) and travel to Norway before heading offshore.
Blokes working offshore aren't going to be flying to IAH, the guys flying there will be project engineers, sales engineers and project managers, white collar workers, not the blue collar boys and girls.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 183, posted (1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8733 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 181): Isn't this why they are searching for guaranties, etc, from the oil industries, before they decide to start this route?
Correct, but this is not the first attempt, UA have tried twice. The Norwegian oil companies would very much like to see a direct service, but so far, they have not been willing guarantee for a certain amount of seats pr departure.
There is a significant difference in the politics and culture of new services and route developement when it comes to Norway and for instance Denmark. Direct services from Norway is hardly a topic and most companies are pleased by connecting elsewhere to their final destinations. On the other side, Denmark have seen the value of connecting their country to their main trade partners around the world, securing the interest of Danish tourism and business. Route opportunities is politics and businesses are working closely with airports and airlines to secure improved infrastructure.
Unfortunately infrastructure to our trade partners has never been on the political agenda in Norway and there is little sign of any change. Therefore SK will meet a whole different culture and attitude towards new services to destinations like Houston compared to what they see in Sweden and Denmark.
The only way for this service to work would be for the largest oil companies to share the risk of launching the service. Even then, I still think SK is the wrong carrier.
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1032 posts, RR: 16 Reply 184, posted (1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 8694 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 181): First of all, I don't see what this has to do with the discussion? And can't see what have changed regarding why it should not have been built at Gardermoen
The weather at Gardermoen with freezing drizzle can be a safety hazard and is a constant problem in winters. The ice could be dangerous to aircraft engines. Many engines have been damaged because of ice at GEN. There is also an argument that the catchment area further south is much larger.
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 185, posted (1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8646 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 181): Those going to Houston are not necessary those that goes offshore And do you have facts/documentation regarding the claim that "The majority of foreign companies have their Norwegian offices in Stavanger "
Sorry that was meant to state "foreign oil companies". Just drive through Forus and you will see!
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 187, posted (1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8637 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 185): Sorry that was meant to state "foreign oil companies". Just drive through Forus and you will see!
The challenge with the Houston market from Norway is that it's so strong, but yet very divided.
Both SVG and OSL have almost equal amount of local passengers and average fares of 2.200 dollar to Houston.
In addition OSL attract transfer from several airports in Norway to Houston, bringing the total number up to 22.000 pax. (SVG 16.000 pax)
A new service must hit both markets in order to attract the yield SK's after. If not, the current 1stop flow out of OSL and SVG towards FRA, LHR and AMS will just continue. I think that's the reason why a triangular suggestion has been presented where both OSL and SVG are served. It gives more attractive connections to offer it through transit where you do not have to leave the aircraft. But again, I do not think SK is the right carrier to bring out this potential.
Triangular suggestion: SVG-IAH-OSL-SVG-IAH-OSL
If SK now really are into securing shares from this market, they must go "all in" with a suitable aircraft or they won't be able to succeed. From a fleet utilisation point of view, running the service from CPH makes sense but will be yet another one stop service and price will be the only incentive from SAS to attract the NO bound traffic. If SAS plans to really get a grip on this market, they need to enter it in a way that really brings up the fares. That can only be justified through a direct link.
There is also another market from Norway that is very similar to Houston in yield and fares, but with larger volumes.
That destination is Singapore and could be an interesting combination for securing a link to Houston.
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 188, posted (1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8407 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 187): If SK now really are into securing shares from this market, they must go "all in" with a suitable aircraft or they won't be able to succeed. From a fleet utilisation point of view, running the service from CPH makes sense but will be yet another one stop service and price will be the only incentive from SAS to attract the NO bound traffic. If SAS plans to really get a grip on this market, they need to enter it in a way that really brings up the fares. That can only be justified through a direct link.
I think part of SAS' downfall was putting its long-haul club pretty much exclusively at CPH, forcing passengers to transfer when they could easily be served by direct services from their capitlas. The only exception is EWR from OSL and EWR and ORD from ARN.
It would be nice if SAS' route network started moving towards what can earn them money rather than keeping the unions/governments on side.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1032 posts, RR: 16 Reply 191, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8269 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 189): I think that's a debate that we should keep out of this thread
Why? This is the single most important reason why longhaul routes are pretty much non existent at both ARN and OSL. So please give a reason why this should not be discussed?
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 192, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8219 times:
Quoting Navigator (Reply 191): This is the single most important reason why longhaul routes are pretty much non existent at both ARN and OSL.
Don't think that is only to blame on SAS....no one (well except some bilateral agreement regarding slots, overflight rights etc) is stopping other airlines to start these routes
The next question is then what will be EK's next step in Scandinavia? Is there enough passengers (and salmon) at OSL to begin here, or will we see an increase at CPH/ARN to more than daily flights?
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 187): The challenge with the Houston market from Norway is that it's so strong, but yet very divided.
Both SVG and OSL have almost equal amount of local passengers and average fares of 2.200 dollar to Houston.
In addition OSL attract transfer from several airports in Norway to Houston, bringing the total number up to 22.000 pax. (SVG 16.000 pax)
Is this divison of the market in Norway a general "break" on the IC market from Norway and why we have relative few IC routes. Of course in combination with lack of political support and Avinor policies? I guess it's not only the IAH market that sees this division?
How is the IAH market from rest of Norway? Is "all" from SVG/OSL or do we see a significant share from BGO/TRD/others?
Invaders From Norway, joined May 2012, 28 posts, RR: 0 Reply 193, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8191 times:
A bit off the long-haul topic, but does anyone know if OSL will make it easier for connecting passengers once all the building have been finished? I Always avoid OSL when flying out of Norway just because I have to go pick up my bags, check in and then wait in the security-line. I remember when Gardermoen opened they had their own assigned area where connecting passengers from international flights could make an easy connecting to their domestic flights without any problem.
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 194, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8172 times:
Quoting Invaders (Reply 193): A bit off the long-haul topic, but does anyone know if OSL will make it easier for connecting passengers once all the building have been finished? I Always avoid OSL when flying out of Norway just because I have to go pick up my bags, check in and then wait in the security-line
Thet requires the custom authorities to allow custom clearance at final destinastions
Quoting Invaders (Reply 193): I remember when Gardermoen opened they had their own assigned area where connecting passengers from international flights could make an easy connecting to their domestic flights without any problem.
It wasn't that much easier. The difference was that you didn't have to take the bags up one floor to the departure area, but could drop it of just outside the custom clearance. You still had to pick-up your bags, clear custom, re-check the bags and go through security
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 195, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8165 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 192): Is this divison of the market in Norway a general "break" on the IC market from Norway and why we have relative few IC routes. Of course in combination with lack of political support and Avinor policies? I guess it's not only the IAH market that sees this division??
No, only Houston sticks out here. Traffic from OSL is usually between 70-80% of the total NO demand to Intercontinental destinations. For Singapore its around 75%.
The effort of OSL towards Intercontinental services is a national tragedy and a disgrace.
A consequence visible in the lack of international connection. However few seems to bother.
Quoting someone83 (Reply 192): How is the IAH market from rest of Norway? Is "all" from SVG/OSL or do we see a significant share from BGO/TRD/others
48.000 From Norway with 16.000 from SVG and 18.000 from OSL. In addition 4.000 passengers connects through OSL to Houston bringing the number up to 22.000. The numbers from the other airports are not offical, so I can't present it here.
The areas of debate are usually Oslo and Stavanger. Another strong region to Houston is Kongsberg.
kiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5300 posts, RR: 3 Reply 196, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8171 times:
Quoting Invaders (Reply 193): I Always avoid OSL when flying out of Norway just because I have to go pick up my bags, check in and then wait in the security-line.
All Norwegian airports where you're transiting from international to domestic are like this. When leaving Norway you check your bags at the airport you're departing from and don't have to do anything when connecting to an international flights at OSL, you only pass through security at your departure airport not at OSL.
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 198, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8026 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 194): Thet requires the custom authorities to allow custom clearance at final destinastions
I do remember reading somewhere that they intend to change things to allow this later in the decade (think the plan was for it to be implemented before OSL expansion was complete).
I'll have a look and see if I can find where I read that.
I don't think it was that article I read. It doesn't give a date or say that it will happen, but it suggests that there is serious thought into making international to domestic transfers much easier, with representatives from OSL airport, the police, customs, SAS and Norwegian in the committee.
It could take some time for it to be approved, hopefully in time for the expansion opening.
Note that Easter had some effect on the numbers, especially in Norway, as the domestic business traffic stops for a week. We'll prpbably see the opposite effect in April as it traffic number for March and April should be seen combined as it varies depending on which month Easter occur
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1032 posts, RR: 16 Reply 203, posted (1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7774 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 192): Don't think that is only to blame on SAS....no one (well except some bilateral agreement regarding slots, overflight rights etc) is stopping other airlines to start these routes
Exactly!! Bilaterals... remember that. This has stopped foregn carriers from opening up both at OSL and ARN.
The other thing is that both OSL and ARN suffer from SK underserving on longhaul.
Where will this Press conférence be - there have been several rumours lately regarding new services to Scandinavia! Including the now announced EK service to ARN and several new services to CPH. But i don't expect anything for CPH to be announced Monday... So could it be a new airline for OSL?
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 208, posted (1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7296 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 206): Hostage situation over for OSL with OSL-FLL finally released.
Then the capacity for the first three DY 787s are fully utilized. Next step will be where the fourth aircrafts will go, but guess we'll have to wait to after the summer to know?
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 210, posted (1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6376 times:
SE-RJF, SAS sixth A320, was delivered to CPH today. This was the second, out of two, former Spanair aircrafts owned by SAS. Unlike the other A320 which are leased, and also some years newer than these former Spanair frames.
In addition, the next new 737-800 leased from GECAS, is scheduled to have its first test flight this week with delivery later this month
And FlyNonstop's airplane is now on its way from Embraer in Brazil
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 213, posted (1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6057 times:
Quoting debonair (Reply 212): How can DY release a new route without any time schedule regarding their B787? Will the B787 ready for start in November?
They are going to lease aircraft to cover the shortfall... Although many passengers will be disappointed that this much-hyped plane may not be delivered for their flights, at least they can get where they are going. I'm sure Norwegian will compensate for the worse than promised service levels too.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 215, posted (1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5423 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Thread starter):
SK and TK are going to codeshare between Scandinavia/Finland and Turkey
Nice move.
I have a feeling that this was something they had to do, rather than of free will.
The the rapid growth of the carriers based between Europe and Asia is certainly an issue for SAS.
With EK now soon at ARN and OSL coming up, they are really up for a revolution in their back yard.
If Jet airways joins STAR, it will be very interesting to see how SAS greats them on their planned launch to Copenhagen.
It seems like SAS finally see their partners as resources rather than liabilities.
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 886 posts, RR: 0 Reply 216, posted (1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5205 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 215): If Jet airways joins STAR, it will be very interesting to see how SAS greats them on their planned launch to Copenhagen.
Are they planning a launch to CPH? Don't think they would survive long without the support of SAS at the Scandinavian end. Also wondering whether it would be the right time for a launch as there is an ongoing diplomatic crisis between Denmark and India. The Eastern High Court in Copenhagen refused extradition of Niels Holck for prosecution in India, stating there was a risk he could be subjected to torture. In response, India has, among other things, cut down on the number of Danish visa applications being processed.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 217, posted (1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5055 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 216): Are they planning a launch to CPH? Don't think they would survive long without the support of SAS at the Scandinavian end.
That I think most people will agree on. I have also some difficulties seeing how they can survive with the support if SAS with EK and QR bombing Scandinavia with low fares and excellent service.
Jet Airways will dismiss their hub in Brussels and they have finalised an expansion plan beyond any previous expantion by an Indian Carrier.
They will strengthen their US product via Abu Dhabi and launch several new European destination.
Copenhagen, Dusseldorf, Manchester and Amsterdam are among the new destinations to be added.
They will get back their 777 from Thai and have also more 333 on orders.
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 217): et Airways will dismiss their hub in Brussels and they have finalised an expansion plan beyond any previous expantion by an Indian Carrier.
They will strengthen their US product via Abu Dhabi and launch several new European destination.
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 803 posts, RR: 4 Reply 219, posted (1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4876 times:
We're talking about at least 2 years, EBGflyer. But the main hurdle here is the bilateral traffic agreement between India and UAE. Today it states maximum 13,000 passengers per week between the two countries. This Jet Airways changes need to raise this number with around 40,000 passengers per week (from 13,000 to 53,000). Air India isn't happy about this change and so are a number of ministers within the Indian government.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 220, posted (1 month 4 hours ago) and read 4584 times:
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 219): We're talking about at least 2 years, EBGflyer. But the main hurdle here is the bilateral traffic agreement between India and UAE. Today it states maximum 13,000 passengers per week between the two countries. This Jet Airways changes need to raise this number with around 40,000 passengers per week (from 13,000 to 53,000). Air India isn't happy about this change and so are a number of ministers within the Indian government.
Although we're know getting a little OT for a Scandinavian thread, but I agree, there is a lot that has to be in place before we maybe see Jet in CPH or any other Scandinavian Airport
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2782 posts, RR: 1 Reply 222, posted (4 weeks 1 day 7 hours 33 minutes ago) and read 4145 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 210): In addition, the next new 737-800 leased from GECAS, is scheduled to have its first test flight this week with delivery later this month
LN-RGF has been delivered and is on its way to Scandinavia
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