Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
JAL Looking At New Routes  
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15342 times:

JL President says theyre interested in flying to Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Myanmar and Cambodia as well as Bangalore and Chennai in India according to this article http://japandailypress.com/japan-air...eloping-asia-for-expansion-1716384

[Edited 2013-01-03 07:06:14]

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 14757 times:

Could JL restart NRT-SFO on the 788 and offer connections on SFO-BLR?

User currently offline9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 544 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14632 times:

How bout a new livery too? One with some actual, you know, color?

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14440 times:

Come on, send your 787 to PHX    


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineKiwinlondon From New Zealand, joined Dec 2011, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13815 times:

What about AKL? They had a code share arrangement with NZ, however as I understand it NZ have now switched to ANA.

Kiwinlondon


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13668 times:

NRT-AKL could always be a good option for offering connections to LHR, especially with BA and JL being about to cooperate more.

User currently offlinefly828 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12944 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Part of the reason, JAL is down sharply in their routes to China. They have planned their capacity based on assumption more and more wealthier Chinese tourists would visit Japan in next few years along with business passengers. But now this likelyhood is pretty dim.

Just look at the routes they are expressing interest, most of them will be flown by equipments they usually deploy into China. I don't see this is the sign for any optimistic growth from JL but forced capacity reallocation.


User currently offlinenrt1011 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12461 times:

I am not sure JAL has ever been the smartest airline, but Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Myanmar and Cambodia don't seem to be thos potentially heavy-hitter locations. I may be wrong, probably will be but just doesn't feel like a "Wow, brilliant insight"

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2966 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12416 times:

Is JAL considering more US routes with the 787? They added SAN and BOS. ANA got SJC. What's next for JAL with the AA joint-venture? PHX, PDX, SLC, SEA, MIA, MSP?

User currently offlineMDW22L31C From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 212 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11864 times:

Send the 787 to BNA. With Nissan USA HQ in Nashville this would be a perfect fit.

How about NGO-LAX? Toyota USA HQ is 10 miles from LAX.


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11824 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
Is JAL considering more US routes with the 787? They added SAN and BOS. ANA got SJC. What's next for JAL with the AA joint-venture? PHX, PDX, SLC, SEA, MIA, MSP?
NRT-MSP on JAL will probably never happen, not with DL having a sizable presence on either end, DL also already operates NRT-PDX with a 763 so I highly doubt there is enough traffic for two carriers there. NRT-SLC has been tried already by NW using an A332 and it wasn't successful. NRT-SEA is well served with many daily flights. MIA could be interesting, can the 787 make NRT-MIA non-stop without any weight penalty's? NRT-PHX is unlikely in the short term, even in the event of AA and US merging, the traffic just isn't there to warrant a non-stop at this time.

[Edited 2013-01-03 15:29:45]


Allons-y!
User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11692 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 5):

NRT-AKL could always be a good option for offering connections to LHR, especially with BA and JL being about to cooperate more.

I could be wrong... but LHR-NRT-AKL is much longer than via SIN, HKG or others.


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11657 times:

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 2):
How bout a new livery too? One with some actual, you know, color?

We all have our priorities!



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1606 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11525 times:

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 11):
I could be wrong... but LHR-NRT-AKL is much longer than via SIN, HKG or others.
LHR-NRT-AKL is actually shorter, I think you're underestimating how much further east New Zealand is compared to Australia. In fact, going via SIN is even longer than going eastbound from AKL to LHR.

LHR-AKL 9,910nm
LHR-NRT-AKL 9,946nm
LHR-HKG-AKL 10,152nm
LHR-SFO-AKL 10,327nm
LHR-SIN-AKL 10,419nm

[Edited 2013-01-03 15:51:35]

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8271 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10282 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Tokyo to Toronto, why should Air Canada fly with no competition from NRT to YYZ. NRT to Las Vegas, hey they love Vegas so why not.

User currently offlineMikey86 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10042 times:

Well JAL did mentioned that they would look at re-instating BNE once the 787's join the fleet. I am not sure if they will deploy the 787 or use the 777 (if a/c are free'd up) to operate the route.

Hopefull this comes to fruition  !



mikey86 - Greenslopes, Queensland
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 2999 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9730 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting nrt1011 (Reply 7):

I am not sure JAL has ever been the smartest airline, but Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Myanmar and Cambodia don't seem to be thos potentially heavy-hitter locations. I may be wrong, probably will be but just doesn't feel like a "Wow, brilliant insight"


Myanmar is going through an incredible economic boom lately as a result of new strides in democratization. ANA, Asiana and Korean all recently started flying there. Korean started Yangon in September with 4x weekly 738 service, and as of December capacity has been increased to a daily A333 service. Seats are all sold out till March.

I believe that the A330 is currently the largest anyone can send down there right now.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinektachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9681 times:

Quoting MDW22L31C (Reply 9):
How about NGO-LAX? Toyota USA HQ is 10 miles from LAX.

Exactly. I mean why not try and increase routes out of KIX or NGO to destinations that were axed or never flown?

Do they want to be a Japanese airline or the Almost only Tokyo airline like they have been doing for the last decade.

They could restart KIX-LAX, KIX-ORD, or KIX-BNE-SYD and then penetrate into the NGO market. If they keep on concentrating only on Tokyo, yields will continue to go down, they will continue to have a hard time making routes profitable, and if they mega quake reported on the news hits Tokyo, they might lose more than half of their fleet.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 2999 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9569 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting ktachiya (Reply 17):

Exactly. I mean why not try and increase routes out of KIX or NGO to destinations that were axed or never flown?

Do they want to be a Japanese airline or the Almost only Tokyo airline like they have been doing for the last decade.

They could restart KIX-LAX, KIX-ORD, or KIX-BNE-SYD and then penetrate into the NGO market. If they keep on concentrating only on Tokyo, yields will continue to go down, they will continue to have a hard time making routes profitable, and if they mega quake reported on the news hits Tokyo, they might lose more than half of their fleet.


Weren't those routes cut precisely because they were unprofitable? JAL only recently got back on its feet again after cutting out all of that bloat.

As suffocating as NRT is for expansion, I'm not sure if further network fragmentation will serve them well at all. I wouldn't expect new long haul routes out of KIX anytime soon short of some kind of economic renaissance in what is a rather stagnant region.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineallegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9561 times:

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 10):
NRT-PHX is unlikely in the short term, even in the event of AA and US merging, the traffic just isn't there to warrant a non-stop at this time.

so 40 Million passengers isn't enough?


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9517 times:

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 19):
so 40 Million passengers isn't enough?

The airport is actively seeking asian service. Last I heard is that the mayor of Phoenix is supposed to go to Tokyo sometime soon to try to attract service.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9488 times:

Quoting Mikey86 (Reply 15):
Well JAL did mentioned that they would look at re-instating BNE once the 787's join the fleet. I am not sure if they will deploy the 787 or use the 777 (if a/c are free'd up) to operate the route.

Many airlines say that kind of thing, but time will tell. With JQ serving OOL down the road, the need to service BNE with their own metal really doesn't seem to be there for them.

Their priorities seem focused on other areas at present.


User currently offlineBeachBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9410 times:

As a Hawaii resident, I hope they consider NRT/KIX-OGG/KOA. I know OGG doesn't have a FIS, but if they show interest I think it may force the issue. Most tourism growth over the past couple of years has been by international arrivals and thus, has primarily been limited to Oahu. With direct international flights to the neighbor islands, hopefully the growth will be more evenly spread.

User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 1723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9371 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Come on, send your 787 to PHX

It will happen since PHX is about to become a Oneworld hub.  



Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6862 posts, RR: 63
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9270 times:

I would love to see direct flights between Japan and Bangalore. I've flown between them several times and there's always a layover in Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangkok or somewhere. I could see a direct flight being successful.

User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9307 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 10):
NRT-SEA is well served with many daily flights.

I wouldn't necessarily call 3X daily SEA-NRT "many" flights...not compared to LAX, SFO and JFK. However, I would be very surprised to JL return to SEA with their 788's...unless someone like UA would leave the market. I think CX on the SEA-HKG would be more likely than JL SEA-NRT.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8699 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 16):
I believe that the A330 is currently the largest anyone can send down there right now.

Singapore Airlines use 772 to Yangon since launching the route in October, however they will switch to A330 as well from winter schedule.


User currently offlinektachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8537 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 25):
...not compared to LAX, SFO and JFK

Yes, but if you take population into factor, I think you can say its a lot.

I have been hearing from the CX rep at Centrair that the primary reason they don't fly to SEA is because they already fly into YVR which is in proximity to SEA. I guess having two daily flights and a pilot base in YVR leads CX to believe that the Pacific Northwest is already served enough.....



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8481 times:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 23):

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Come on, send your 787 to PHX

It will happen since PHX is about to become a Oneworld hub.  


Just because US/AA merge doesn't mean PHX will survive as a hub.

It makes little sense to serve the small PHX-TYO market when JAL has LAX and SAN closely. If anything, JAL should look at LAS out West.



a.
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7701 times:

I wounder if they would ever start a service to MEL they have had rights to fly down to here for years but never took them up
we did have a Narita service about 10 years ago that was a JAL codeshare flight on QF metal a 763 i think but QF cut that service out. So i wounder if they will come down to here.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8271 posts, RR: 7
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6760 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

IF AA merges with Usair JAL could end up in CLT, stranger things have happened. Charlotte, North Carolina serves an area of the USA JAL doesn't hub into, DFW and ORD are not the same for the southeast region.

User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6663 times:

If you look at the underlying theme, those destinations JL are considering are all emerging markets. With tourism growing in Myanmar and Cambodia, KE has already taken advantage of funneling tourism to these countries. Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are quickly growing economies in South Asia.

I think KE is at an advantage over JL as they are able to fly their smaller planes to cities such as CNX and PNH. I just think a JL 767 is too much plane for some of these destinations


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8045 posts, RR: 54
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6616 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 1):
Could JL restart NRT-SFO

I suppose it's surprising they don't fly this route but HND-SFO is much more convenient, by miles (literally!) and the times are fantastic - midnight takeoff out of Tokyo gives you all day and a nice dinner downtown before the easy journey out to HND about 10pm, and that gets you into SFO at 4pm, downtown by 6pm, light dinner and a walk and a normal bedtime. That's perfect!

Same with the return, leave SFO at 6pm which gives you most of the day in the city, arrive HND at 10pm, easy to sleep after all that flying, and once again, minimal jetlag.

Good work JAL!



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineallegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6378 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 28):
It makes little sense to serve the small PHX-TYO market when JAL has LAX and SAN closely. If anything, JAL should look at LAS out West.

Lets be honest here. a Phoenix-Tokyo route is bound to happen,the PHX metro area is just about the fastes growing areas in the USA,buissness are comming and so are workers. Its going to happen,it has to whether it be now or 20 years from now,it will happen eventually. if LAS can hold up asia service PHX can.


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6308 times:

Certainly not a surprising move given that the presence in these markets will give JAL an advantage over ANA. It may in fact not even be based on the O&D demand, but the potential in connecting to/from North America - which is one of JL's strongest regions. And I'm quite sure that one or more of these routes will appear as a codeshare.

PM, the fastest way from BLR to Japan is with UL - and on NRT to BLR, you get a free stopover.



The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6162 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ktachiya (Reply 27):
I have been hearing from the CX rep at Centrair that the primary reason they don't fly to SEA is because they already fly into YVR which is in proximity to SEA. I guess having two daily flights and a pilot base in YVR leads CX to believe that the Pacific Northwest is already served enough.....

You are probably correct, but we have seen the airline industry do strange things like what JL and NH are doing right now. JL has flights to both LAX and SAN. Likewise, NH is flying to both SFO and SJC. But again, I do agree with CX flying 3X daily YVR-HKG, it's probably pretty covered. AS/QX has many connection opportunities through YVR and they are partners.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6004 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 28):
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 23):

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Come on, send your 787 to PHX

It will happen since PHX is about to become a Oneworld hub.


Just because US/AA merge doesn't mean PHX will survive as a hub.

It makes little sense to serve the small PHX-TYO market when JAL has LAX and SAN closely. If anything, JAL should look at LAS out West.


AA would be foolish to cut the PHX hub. See the PHX Aviation thread for detailed info.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3866 posts, RR: 14
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 31):
With tourism growing in Myanmar and Cambodia, KE has already taken advantage of funneling tourism to these countries.

Doesnt KE use their 738s and 739s on these routes? What prevents JAL from doing the same with their 738s?


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5918 times:

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 19):

so 40 Million passengers isn't enough?

Yeah that is a lot, however the number of people who travel from PHX to Tokyo is much much much smaller then that, certainly not enough to warrant using 2 aircraft to serve the market non-stop when there are a plethora of options from LAX and SFO to NRT, you can also go though SAN as well now. I would expect another PHX-Europe flight way before anything to Asia.



Allons-y!
User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5605 times:

Quoting us330 (Reply 37):
Doesnt KE use their 738s and 739s on these routes? What prevents JAL from doing the same with their 738s?

While NRT is about 600 miles east than ICN, it's still within range of the 738 so yes, some of the smaller cities in SE Asia are within reach


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

Every sign, such as JL flying to destinations like BOS and SAN that can't survive only on Tokyo O&D, JL cutting all non-TYO longhauls, and now JL flying to places like RGN which have O&D to the U.S. but no flights seems to imply that JL is focusing more on expanding as a connection-based airline. With the Japanese O&D market shrinking, it is probably the best idea.

Also, while there seem to be many PHX boosters on the thread, is there really enough O&D to Asia? If NH hasn't flown to PHX as a *A hub why would JL fly to PHX which is not a 1W hub?


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 41, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5353 times:

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 33):
Lets be honest here. a Phoenix-Tokyo route is bound to happen,the PHX metro area is just about the fastes growing areas in the USA,buissness are comming and so are workers. Its going to happen,it has to whether it be now or 20 years from now,it will happen eventually.

Within 20 years? Sure, it'll happen.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 33):
if LAS can hold up asia service PHX can.

How do you figure? Las Vegas-Asia is approximately 3x larger a market. Yields suck in both, but LAS is large enough that it supports service already n

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 36):
AA would be foolish to cut the PHX hub. See the PHX Aviation thread for detailed info.

Why would I see a biased thread for detailed info? A combined US-AA cannot support PHX with its cost structure. The hub will be severely cut. That's reality. The merger will absolutely suck for Phoenix. I don't necessarily believe the hub will close, but something like what DL now has at CVG and MEM is a very realistic possibility, and that won't support Asia.

[Edited 2013-01-04 16:19:03]


a.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11405 posts, RR: 62
Reply 42, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 41):
Why would I see a biased thread for detailed info? A combined US-AA cannot support PHX with its cost structure. The hub will be severely cut. That's reality. The merger will absolutely suck for Phoenix. I don't necessarily believe the hub will close, but something like what DL now has at CVG and MEM is a very realistic possibility, and that won't support Asia.

  

Yep. The PHX hub - as it now exists - would never work at a merged airlines combined, higher, costs. Nor would it need to. US only has a hub of that scale in PHX today because it has no alternative and no choice - a combined, new AA would have many far superior options with which to handle much of the traffic that US now forces over PHX. I suspect a hub of around 200ish daily departures, about 1/3 mainline, is the best case scenario for PHX if a merger occurs.

As for JL adding PHX-NRT, I see that as highly, highly unlikely anytime soon, with or without a merger - most of the PHX-Asia traffic can be easily handled via LAX/PHX well into the future. If a merger does occur, I do, however, see PHL-NRT as being a distinct possibility.


User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 560 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4753 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 42):
As for JL adding PHX-NRT, I see that as highly, highly unlikely anytime soon, with or without a merger - most of the PHX-Asia traffic can be easily handled via LAX/PHX well into the future. If a merger does occur, I do, however, see PHL-NRT as being a distinct possibility.

I have no ax to grind in this, but with this logic could the same not be said for SAN? They are 110 miles to the south of LAX and it is an easy trip to LAX from the SAN area. I thought that JL was using the 787 to access secondary markets that they could not serve with a larger plane?

Will PHX get service to Aisa, yes. When will it happen, not for some time IMHO.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4464 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 43):
I have no ax to grind in this, but with this logic could the same not be said for SAN? They are 110 miles to the south of LAX and it is an easy trip to LAX from the SAN area. I thought that JL was using the 787 to access secondary markets that they could not serve with a larger plane?

It is still way too early for JL to judge how well the SAN flight is performing.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 45, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4368 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 33):
if LAS can hold up asia service PHX can.
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 41):
How do you figure? Las Vegas-Asia is approximately 3x larger a market. Yields suck in both, but LAS is large enough that it supports service already n

The passenger demographics are completely different between LAS and PHX. People from Asia go to LAS to gamble. Comparatively, there is no gambling at PHX. PHX would be pretty much all be business.

PHX once had direct service to NGO when HP had 747-200's through HNL. So Asian service to PHX is plausible, especially with the Dreamliners.

Asian service is also supported by large Asian communities. I know that SJC and SAN both have large Asian communities. Does BOS? I don't know...never been there. Does PHX? I don't that answer either.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17322 posts, RR: 46
Reply 46, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4315 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 45):
PHX once had direct service to NGO when HP had 747-200's through HNL.

And it was a DISASTER.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 45):
The passenger demographics are completely different between LAS and PHX. People from Asia go to LAS to gamble. Comparatively, there is no gambling at PHX. PHX would be pretty much all be business.

What business? The fares are bottom of the barrel. There's probably more actual business traffic in LAS, plus the tourism.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 29):
I wounder if they would ever start a service to MEL
Quoting steex (Reply 13):
LHR-NRT-AKL is actually shorter, I think you're underestimating how much further east New Zealand is compared to Australia.

Japan-Australia/NZ traffic is famously low yield, NH doesn't even bother with it, and NZ has dropped HKGLHR and mentioned that its LHR service loses money. Not happening.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 41):
Why would I see a biased thread for detailed info?

  



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 46):
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 45):
PHX once had direct service to NGO when HP had 747-200's through HNL.

And it was a DISASTER.

That is an understatement, many of the HP PHX-HNL-NGO flights went out with less then a dozen passengers. HP's foray into 747s and long hauls nearly killed the airline, I feel they would have done better starting PHX-Europe over Asia at that time.



Allons-y!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 48, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4145 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 46):
And it was a DISASTER.
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 47):
That is an understatement, many of the HP PHX-HNL-NGO flights went out with less then a dozen passengers. HP's foray into 747s and long hauls nearly killed the airline, I feel they would have done better starting PHX-Europe over Asia at that time.

It was a disaster because HP got screwed with NGO, which at the time, had very very few further connections. HP played the game completely wrong.

If HP went with NRT and established some sort of JV with NH or JL then we'd be speaking a different story here.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 49, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4143 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 43):
I have no ax to grind in this, but with this logic could the same not be said for SAN

SAN has good business ties to Japan.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 45):
The passenger demographics are completely different between LAS and PHX. People from Asia go to LAS to gamble. Comparatively, there is no gambling at PHX. PHX would be pretty much all be business.

No, the demographics aren't different at all. PHX would be nowhere close to being "all business." the primary driver of Arizona-Japan traffic would be Grand Canyon visitors and low-yield VFR to the like of Ho Chi Minh City and Taipei.

PHX-Asia fares suck - worse than Las Vegas, worse than Miami, worse than Orlando, worse than Denver - and none of those are particularly known for being high-yield to Asia.



a.
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1606 posts, RR: 9
Reply 50, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 48):
It was a disaster because HP got screwed with NGO, which at the time, had very very few further connections. HP played the game completely wrong.

If HP went with NRT and established some sort of JV with NH or JL then we'd be speaking a different story here.

That's obviously speculation, though. Maybe it would've been a wild success, or maybe HP would've just bled slightly less and the route would've died a little slower - we have no way to know for sure. You may suspect the former, but the numbers (even today) suggest the latter.


User currently offlineBA0197 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2011, 273 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

I think JAL needs to consider DFW and the oneworld connections.

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 52, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4064 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 49):
SAN has good business ties to Japan.

Same with PHX

*countless banks here in the valley with ties to overseas markets in Asia
*IBM
*Intel
*Boeing
*ASU
*Microsoft
*A few Japanese software companies have their American offices here
*Trading companies
--In particular, A number of my Japanese contacts are from trading companies in Tokyo. When they come to America, they prefer going through Phoenix offices and delegations because of the lower tax rates here in the valley. One of them told me that more and more Japanese may start funneling their way to Phoenix should taxes rise even higher in Cali.

Oh and remember the Skymark thread? I asked my contacts and had my contacts ask their contacts about Skymark to America? Well I asked them in the same question if JL or NH began a flight to PHX, would they take it to connect to instead of LAX or SFO, and almost all of them said yes. The ones who said no said they would use SAN.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 49):
PHX-Asia fares suck - worse than Las Vegas, worse than Miami, worse than Orlando, worse than Denver - and none of those are particularly known for being high-yield to Asia.

Actually they're not that bad. It's just right priced with DL (around $1000 if you have to connect in LAX or SEA)

Compared to $1500 out of CVG-DTW-NRT.

Phoenix is a good place for competitive fares.


And for the love of god, people....Phoenix is one of the largest cities in the west. We have a pull from all over the world. The yields on the BA flight are extremely high and the cities of Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, and Chandler are among the most wealthiest cities in the US. If AA was stupid enough to close down the hub here, then you'd leave 4.4 million people (not including the draw from TUS and FLG) in the dust *no pun intended,* and many more airlines would swoop in and pick up the slack big time. US is going nowhere. Once the economy picks up again and people begin filing out here again, PHX will most likely see more expansion, especially since PHX is beginning to look at modernizing plans for terminals 3 and 4 (which includes more dedicated international gates.)



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 53, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 52):
Actually they're not that bad. It's just right priced with DL (around $1000 if you have to connect in LAX or SEA)

I'm not looking at delta.com, I'm looking at MIDT fare data - a sampling of fares among all carriers for FY11, which shows the fares suck.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 52):
Same with PHX

And obviously it's not creating premium travel demand, because it simply doesn't exist.

And despite Phoenix proximity to Asia, there are only 25 daily passengers to Tokyo. It's around the size of Miami-Hong Kong, except those MIAHKG passengers are paying more than $3k round-trip on average, while PHXTYO passengers are paying less than $1,300.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 52):
The yields on the BA flight are extremely high

No, they aren't. BA yields are extremely high to NYC, LA, D.C., Miami, Boston and - ironically - Las Vegas. While the PHX fares aren't bad, they aren't anything that shouts amazing.



a.
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 54, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3999 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 52):
then you'd leave 4.4 million people (not including the draw from TUS and FLG) in the dust *no pun intended,* and many more airlines would swoop in and pick up the slack big time.

No, you wouldn't, because Southwest serves the market very well.

And nobody said AA is going to leave. AA will absolutely stay, and a very likely scenario is a severe right-sizing of the operation to focus on grabbing the premium section of local O&D, which is exactly what DL has done at MEM and CVG.



a.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17322 posts, RR: 46
Reply 55, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 48):
If HP went with NRT and established some sort of JV with NH or JL then we'd be speaking a different story here.

We'd be speaking about a disaster where the names and places were different and that's about it. It probably would have been far worse, since there at least is a reasonable local market on the shorter PHXHNL and HNLNGO segments, rather than the small PHX-Asia market spread over a long, expensive segment and OA beyond NRT.



E pur si muove -Galileo
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta Looking At New Service To Terre Haute IN posted Mon Apr 16 2007 03:48:51 by RoseFlyer
RFD Leader Hints At New Routes posted Sat Aug 26 2006 14:04:41 by KarlB737
SN Brussels Looking At New E. African Destinations posted Wed Jul 27 2005 19:06:56 by ETStar
Allegiant Looking At New Cities From List Of 20 posted Sun Nov 2 2003 05:22:58 by FATFlyer
Boeing Looking Still Looking At New Planes posted Wed Jan 31 2001 02:50:50 by B757300
Wizz Air To Add 2nd A320 At Belgrade, 4 New Routes posted Sat Sep 1 2012 03:14:53 by kl911
Emirates & SQ Looking At South American Routes posted Thu Apr 15 2010 10:15:29 by SCL767
U2 Up Against EI New Routes At LGW posted Thu Feb 5 2009 02:02:07 by Sam1987
WN At MSP: New Routes? posted Tue Oct 21 2008 20:19:13 by Af773atmsp
Wizz Air: To Add New 320 And New Routes At BUD posted Tue Oct 14 2008 09:09:13 by Pe@rson