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Pinnacle Outlines Plan To Exit Chapter 11  
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9345 posts, RR: 26
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6961 times:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....-newsArticle&ID=1770974&highlight=

"MEMPHIS, Tenn., Jan. 3, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Pinnacle Airlines Corp. (OTC: PNCLQ) announced today that it and its wholly owned subsidiaries have entered into comprehensive agreements that, among other things, provide a path forward for the Company to emerge from bankruptcy with a competitive cost structure and a viable long-term business plan. Under Pinnacle's new business plan, the Company will transition its fleet to operate a fleet of 81 fuel-efficient, two-class regional jets for Delta Air Lines Inc."


The jist -
Delta had given Pinnacle until Jan 31 to come up with a Chapter 11 exit plan, now the plan must be filed by Feb. 15.
140 CRJ-200 planes to be removed from fleet.
Pinnacle to operate 81 regional jets for Delta, with 2-class service.


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBostonMike From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6905 times:

Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
Delta had given Pinnacle until Jan 31 to come up with a Chapter 11 exit plan, now the plan must be filed by Feb. 15.
140 CRJ-200 planes to be removed from fleet.
Pinnacle to operate 81 regional jets for Delta, with 2-class service.

What a wacky industry! The primary job the regional/connection carrier CEOs is to continually drive operating costs down to compete for any CPAs from the big guys. This, of course, will be mostly on the backs of labor. I know it's all just Capitalism, but "creating and building" seem to be lost in the process. I can't help but think quality of service will suffer even more using this business plan.

The Regional Airline Association (RAA) simply has no clout in the development and wellbeing of their airlines. Maybe regional aviation has had its time in the sum.


User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7565 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6843 times:

Pinnacle, like most of the regional airline industry these days acts more like a temporary staffing agency than an airline.

User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6836 times:

Quoting BostonMike (Reply 1):
What a wacky industry! The primary job the regional/connection carrier CEOs is to continually drive operating costs down to compete for any CPAs from the big guys. This, of course, will be mostly on the backs of labor. I know it's all just Capitalism, but "creating and building" seem to be lost in the process. I can't help but think quality of service will suffer even more using this business plan.

You forget that Delta has Pinnacle in a chokehold. Delta is holding ALL of the cards here, and the only thing Pinnacle can do to survive, is comply. This "plan" though is contingent on the results of the current pilot TA---which Delta has forced upon Pinnacle.

[Edited 2013-01-03 11:15:43]


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User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7496 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6802 times:

Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
140 CRJ-200 planes to be removed from fleet.

Man....I smell more bad news for CVG and MEM.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6775 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):

Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
140 CRJ-200 planes to be removed from fleet.

Man....I smell more bad news for CVG and MEM.

I can agree on MEM, as most DL 50-seat flying at MEM (which is also most of DL's MEM departures today) is 9E. I could definitely see the MEM pilot base closing (9E's current pilot bases are ATL CR2, DTW CR2/9, MEM CR2, and MSP CR2/9) along with a DL MEM dehubbing. But DL has stated that right-sized CVG is profitable, and 9E doesn't do much CVG flying anyway.

One big question that remains is what MX bases will stay open. Currently, 9E has 5 MX bases (CWA, DSM, FWA, GSP, and TYS). CWA, FWA, and GSP are strictly CR2 while DSM and TYS also handle the CR9 (if not exclusively). I think that DSM and TYS are safe, as they handle the CR9s. But I could see one of the three CR2-only bases transitioning to CR9 MX (likely FWA due to the geographic location and the Ivy Tech A&P flowthrough agreement that 9E management likes a lot) and the other two closing.



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6765 times:

Quoting BostonMike (Reply 1):
This, of course, will be mostly on the backs of labor.

Mostly? In this case, try entirely. Upper management will walk away with plenty of compensation and almost certainly a cushy job elsewhere. Those responsible for the mess at 9E already departed with a nice golden 'chute.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
This "plan" though is contingent on the results of the current pilot TA---which Delta has forced upon Pinnacle.

The TA is a convenient excuse to blame labor if the company fails. Pinnacle was doomed long before this ever trickled down to the pilots.


Sad that the mismanagement of a few more than a few years ago leads to so many hard working people losing their jobs today.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7565 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6722 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
One big question that remains is what MX bases will stay open. Currently, 9E has 5 MX bases (CWA, DSM, FWA, GSP, and TYS). CWA, FWA, and GSP are strictly CR2 while DSM and TYS also handle the CR9 (if not exclusively). I think that DSM and TYS are safe, as they handle the CR9s. But I could see one of the three CR2-only bases transitioning to CR9 MX (likely FWA due to the geographic location and the Ivy Tech A&P flowthrough agreement that 9E management likes a lot) and the other two closing.

We discusssed this two weeks ago.....


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6542 times:

Isn't this dependent on the pilot TA being agreed to? If the pilots actually get the chance to vote on it, I can't see it having a snowball's chance in hell of going through. And then the whole plan would fall apart.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6477 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
If the pilots actually get the chance to vote on it, I can't see it having a snowball's chance in hell of going through. And then the whole plan would fall apart.

Pinnacle is still in Chapter 11, so there's still the option of the court imposing the new contract on 9E employees (likely with supporting motions from DL).

[Edited 2013-01-03 13:45:49]


Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6427 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 9):
Pinnacle is still in Chapter 11, so there's still the option of the court imposing the new contract on 9E employees (likely with supporting motions from DL).

That, and more than likely, that imposed contract will actually have WORSE terms than this current one. In other words, as bad as it is, the contract getting voted on is more than likely the best offer they'll get, and there's still the possibility that the company may still fold.

[Edited 2013-01-03 14:08:10]


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6362 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 9):

Actually the impression I've gotten from Delta is the TA passes or Pinnacle is shut down and the aircraft given to other carriers. There will be no imposing of terms.

I honestly don't know how any pilot at Pinnacle except maybe the top 400 could possibly vote Yes on that TA. It is a pile of garbage.

- 1500 pilots furloughed, 810 remain, only 400 will be Captains. That's 100% pay cut for 1500 people plus 60-70% pay cut for another 400 captains that are being downgraded.
- FO pay tops out at year 4
- When pilots upgrade they start over at year 1 pay.
- The "flow through" to Delta requires the pilot to be a Captain at Pinnacle and it's only an interview, not a job. So only the top 400 are eligible and these guys are super senior and likely not going anywhere anyways.

This TA lowers the bar for the entire industry to levels I didn't think were possible. The 1500 pilots getting furloughed are losing their jobs anyways and this TA if it passes will put pressure on their next employer to match Pinnacle's costs. So voting yes screws them at this job and the next job.

At most there should only be 400 yes votes and an overwhelming number of NO votes. We'll see what happens.

For the sake of their future jobs and the fact they are losing their current ones regardless of yes or no they should burn the place down. That's how I'd vote if I were a Pinnacle pilot.


User currently offlinecrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6217 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 11):
Actually the impression I've gotten from Delta is the TA passes or Pinnacle is shut down and the aircraft given to other carriers. There will be no imposing of terms.

I honestly don't know how any pilot at Pinnacle except maybe the top 400 could possibly vote Yes on that TA. It is a pile of garbage.

- 1500 pilots furloughed, 810 remain, only 400 will be Captains. That's 100% pay cut for 1500 people plus 60-70% pay cut for another 400 captains that are being downgraded.
- FO pay tops out at year 4
- When pilots upgrade they start over at year 1 pay.
- The "flow through" to Delta requires the pilot to be a Captain at Pinnacle and it's only an interview, not a job. So only the top 400 are eligible and these guys are super senior and likely not going anywhere anyways.

This TA lowers the bar for the entire industry to levels I didn't think were possible. The 1500 pilots getting furloughed are losing their jobs anyways and this TA if it passes will put pressure on their next employer to match Pinnacle's costs. So voting yes screws them at this job and the next job.

At most there should only be 400 yes votes and an overwhelming number of NO votes. We'll see what happens.

For the sake of their future jobs and the fact they are losing their current ones regardless of yes or no they should burn the place down. That's how I'd vote if I were a Pinnacle pilot.

It is easier to find another job when you have a job. It's also easier to find a job when you have time instead of having to fight 2000ish people for the same positions. What a great idea. Let's shut'er down and screw everyone else in the company out of jobs. I have pilot friends there who have told me this. It will pass but you will be hardpressed to find anyone who voted for it.


User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1552 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6167 times:

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 12):
It is easier to find another job when you have a job. It's also easier to find a job when you have time instead of having to fight 2000ish people for the same positions. What a great idea. Let's shut'er down and screw everyone else in the company out of jobs. I have pilot friends there who have told me this. It will pass but you will be hardpressed to find anyone who voted for it.

Correct, talking to many Pinnacle guys, as much as they want to burn the company down, they have to also think for themselves. Once this TA goes through, it will be close to a year before the furloughs go into full swing and that gives these guys a chance to find a job on their own terms and hopefully the industry will pick up even more so that they can get other jobs.

Personally, I would love to see them give management the big finger and shut the place down, but it won't happen. As much as feel for the other employees at Pinnacle, for the most part, it's always the pilots who have the most to loose in situations like this.

This being said, I still have a feeling mothership Delta is just playing games and I really wouldn't be surprised to see Pinnacle just a distant memory in the next 5 years or so! It smells a lot like what Delta did with Freedom and Comair. Its just too bad this mess had to drag down Mesaba as well, which IMO was a great regional!

Good Luck to every Pinnacle employee out there!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6093 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 9):
Pinnacle is still in Chapter 11, so there's still the option of the court imposing the new contract on 9E employees (likely with supporting motions from DL).

Let them impose it. The airline is on its way out anyway, so why show that you support what the company is trying to do? Other regionals are going to see that, and you'll start to see the same sort of stuff popping up elsewhere the next time contract negotiations are due.

At least if the pilots vote no, the contract won't be so easily looked at as industry standard.

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 12):
It is easier to find another job when you have a job. It's also easier to find a job when you have time instead of having to fight 2000ish people for the same positions.

Hopefully they've been applying for other jobs all along. There have been many signs that Pinnacle's days are numbered.

Eventually, someone is going to have to stop the merry-go-round to hell that is the regional airline industry. The Pinnacle pilots have a great chance to make a big statement.

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 12):
What a great idea. Let's shut'er down and screw everyone else in the company out of jobs.

The company shutting down is inevitable, and it's the fault of poor management, not anything the pilots did. It's not reasonable to expect the pilots to take it up the ass just so that everyone else can keep jobs that are doomed anyway. At least they'll be able to find comparable ones elsewhere and won't have start all over at the bottom like the pilots will.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
Let them impose it. The airline is on its way out anyway, so why show that you support what the company is trying to do? Other regionals are going to see that, and you'll start to see the same sort of stuff popping up elsewhere the next time contract negotiations are due.

At least if the pilots vote no, the contract won't be so easily looked at as industry standard.

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 12):
It is easier to find another job when you have a job. It's also easier to find a job when you have time instead of having to fight 2000ish people for the same positions.

Hopefully they've been applying for other jobs all along. There have been many signs that Pinnacle's days are numbered.

Eventually, someone is going to have to stop the merry-go-round to hell that is the regional airline industry. The Pinnacle pilots have a great chance to make a big statement.

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 12):
What a great idea. Let's shut'er down and screw everyone else in the company out of jobs.

The company shutting down is inevitable, and it's the fault of poor management, not anything the pilots did. It's not reasonable to expect the pilots to take it up the ass just so that everyone else can keep jobs that are doomed anyway. At least they'll be able to find comparable ones elsewhere and won't have start all over at the bottom like the pilots will.

Another pie in the sky pilot dream. There is no drawing a line in the sand. The pilots vote no and this will be used at every other airline as a choice of taking less or getting shut down. The industry will continue it's downward spiral but 1000s of people will be out of jobs. But it's ok, because the pilots didn't take a paycut. I know lots of people pilots, flight attendants, office people applying for jobs. There just aren't a ton of jobs out there. If the pilots don't want to take it up the ass they have the option of quitting. Why do they never take that?? How do you figure non pilots won't have to start at the bottom somewhere else?? Mark my words, this will pass.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6000 times:

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 15):
The industry will continue it's downward spiral but 1000s of people will be out of jobs.

But most of those jobs will come back. The regional industry is not superfluous, it does have its place. If the majors see that all their regional partners are crumbling because they've pushed the bar too low, they'll find a way to make things work again. Capacity will be cut, yes, but you're not going to see the whole industry shut down just because pilots don't want to work for peanuts.

But, of course, that only happens if people actually stand up to what's going on rather than accept it as inevitable.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5928 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
The Pinnacle pilots have a great chance to make a big statement.
Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
The company shutting down is inevitable

So what is the statement then? "We're just like Comair, just not as senior. But just as unemployed"???

All a Pinnacle shutdown accomplishes is to further consolidate the number of regional players. Will it drives costs up? Maybe. Will it create jobs? Probably not.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

Quoting toltommy (Reply 17):
So what is the statement then? "We're just like Comair, just not as senior. But just as unemployed"???

The statement is that there's a limit to how far down things can go before it becomes not worth it anymore.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 17):
All a Pinnacle shutdown accomplishes is to further consolidate the number of regional players. Will it drives costs up? Maybe. Will it create jobs? Probably not.

It won't create additional jobs in the aggregate, no. It'll end up with fewer jobs in the aggregate. But most of the people employed by Pinnacle will be able to find work elsewhere. The aircraft Pinnacle was going to get will end up somewhere, and that airline will need people to support them. The aircraft Pinnacle has now will also end up somewhere, and that airline will need people as well.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5864 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 18):
It won't create additional jobs in the aggregate, no. It'll end up with fewer jobs in the aggregate. But most of the people employed by Pinnacle will be able to find work elsewhere. The aircraft Pinnacle was going to get will end up somewhere, and that airline will need people to support them. The aircraft Pinnacle has now will also end up somewhere, and that airline will need people as well.

No disrespect, but I disagree. The 50 seaters Pinnacle flies will go away. Delta has made it clear that they want the 50 seaters to go away. Shut Pinnacle down, and 120 50 seaters go away. But there will be 81 -900's to dangle out there to other carriers. Those other carriers will be asked to park 50 seaters in exchange for the larger jets. There won't be new jobs for pilots or flight attendants. There certainly won't be new jobs for schedulers, auditors, or administrators (ie the back office people who support the operation). Maybe some will wind up at mainline, maybe some will wind up at another carrier as a new hire. But thinking that burning Pinnacle down will create jobs elsewhere is folly. Ask a former Comair employee.

That being said, I do feel for everyone at Pinnacle (esp the former XJ'ers) and hope for the best for you. You all deserve better.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5852 times:

Quoting toltommy (Reply 19):
The 50 seaters Pinnacle flies will go away. Delta has made it clear that they want the 50 seaters to go away. Shut Pinnacle down, and 120 50 seaters go away. But there will be 81 -900's to dangle out there to other carriers. Those other carriers will be asked to park 50 seaters in exchange for the larger jets.

Not all the 50 seaters will go away - they serve a purpose, and DL has said that they will be keeping a certain number of them around. The idea that the -900s will only go to airlines if they also park 50 seaters just isn't correct.

And consider that the pilots who would have flown the -900s at Pinnacle are the most senior guys, who aren't likely to head over to some other regional if Pinnacle disappears. So that will free up space for displaced people to go.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinebhmdiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5820 times:

Did anyone else read this from the press release?

"A restructuring support agreement among Pinnacle, Delta and the Creditors' Committee setting forth certain principal terms for a plan of reorganization to emerge from Chapter 11. The reorganization plan will provide for Delta or an affiliate to acquire the equity in the reorganized Pinnacle Airlines Corp. after it emerges from bankruptcy. Pinnacle must file a plan of reorganization acceptable to Delta and the Creditors' Committee by Feb. 15, 2013. "

Does this mean that Delta will be purchasing another regional, or does this mean that another DCI carrier will land Pinnacle?


User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5809 times:

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 21):
Does this mean that Delta will be purchasing another regional, or does this mean that another DCI carrier will land Pinnacle?

It means either Delta will, or they will decide who does. They hold the DIP financing.


User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1552 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5765 times:

Quoting toltommy (Reply 19):
No disrespect, but I disagree. The 50 seaters Pinnacle flies will go away. Delta has made it clear that they want the 50 seaters to go away. Shut Pinnacle down, and 120 50 seaters go away. But there will be 81 -900's to dangle out there to other carriers. Those other carriers will be asked to park 50 seaters in exchange for the larger jets. There won't be new jobs for pilots or flight attendants. There certainly won't be new jobs for schedulers, auditors, or administrators (ie the back office people who support the operation). Maybe some will wind up at mainline, maybe some will wind up at another carrier as a new hire. But thinking that burning Pinnacle down will create jobs elsewhere is folly. Ask a former Comair employee.

No disrespect, but I don't agree with this statement either. First off, the 50 seaters can't go away overnight, that would be way too much feed for DL to loose right away. Those 50 seaters will end up at another regional, albiet for a short term. Those 900s will also go to another DCI carrier. With these aircraft, will go a lot of the crews that crew them. Many regionals are already hurting for pilots and if someone gets these aircraft, they will need to hire a lot of crews to staff them, which in turn would lead to jobs for the Pinnacle crews. I can't speak for the schedulers and auditors and what not, but most of them are not strapped to this industry like the pilots and mechanics are. And once this 1500 hour rules goes into affect, the regionals will be hurting even more. Now I am not saying their are jobs for all 2000+ pilots and staff at Pinnacle, but the immediate demise of Pinnacle will initially create a small hiring boom once DL finds new homes/operators for those Rjs!

Also, Comair is a different ball game, as they were slowly dissolved. Most of the ex Comair guys already have jobs, I know I am friends with a bunch of them. A lot of the guys who shut Comair down were the really senior guys that would have retired at the place, who will more then likely leave this industry all together. So it's not entirely a fair comparison!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently onlinewingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5753 times:

As a current captain at 9E, soon to be FO, and most likely 15 months from a furlough, I can't afford to start over at year 1 regional pay. I have had my apps in at ALL airlines that are not regional airlines. I have received 1 email back saying thank you, but no interview requests. I will continue to hope for a phone call, but me voting yes or no on this TA has absolutely nothing to do with me caring about what other pilot groups may think of me as a 9E pilot. It has everything to do with what will keep a roof over my head, food on my table for my family, and medical insurance for my family. I did not create this problem. I am unfortunately having to deal with it.

Think of the XJ sale to 9E as a 3 year plan to eliminate 9E. XJ was purchased with 88 aircraft. Now the new 9E will have 81. Delta didn't sell XJ for $62 mil. It folded 9E for $100 mil. XJ management remains in tact. I am almost positive a move back to MSP is going to be announced, and MEM will be mothballed. Funny how that works. DL figured out what not to do after Comair, and saved themselves a $1B in the process.

Wingnut



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlinexdlx From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 638 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 23):


I think not.... The 717... EIS is fall of 2013 they can shutdown all 50 seat flying they care to eliminate and transition to arger jets just as they have done with OH! DL is rightsizing the operation and running a tight ship. But what is inevitable is that in the process, lives are disrupted and decisions have to be made. If you are driving a CRJ/ERJ today
and you are not in the top 30% of the ranks... you better dust off the resume and get an action plan going.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3452 posts, RR: 5
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

Why does this keep happening?

The sad thing is, if you are Pinncale, you can't win.

The pilot 2 posts back really summed it up well. He is essentially buying time until he can find a new job.

There is no career to be made at this place or any regional for that matter.


User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Delta may want the 50 seaters gone but they will still be around in reduced numbers. Pinnacle should bid for a portion of these birds. As for the employees I say get paid to the last day.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 4368 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 27):

Delta may want the 50 seaters gone but they will still be around in reduced numbers. Pinnacle should bid for a portion of these birds.

The problem is that SkyWest Holdings (OO/EV) alone can fill all of the 125 50-seaters needed by DL with their current fleet, though I wouldn't be surprised if some of the older OO/EV birds get swapped out for recent-build ex-9E birds. I flew on an older EV CR2 recently, and 9E's CR2s are in much better shape.



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 19 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

Quoting wingnutmn (Reply 24):
I am almost positive a move back to MSP is going to be announced, and MEM will be mothballed.

Didn't Pinnacle spend a whole lot of money relocating to MEM just a few years ago, and now they want to move again? Talk about incompetence....

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 19 hours ago) and read 4278 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 29):
Didn't Pinnacle spend a whole lot of money relocating to MEM just a few years ago, and now they want to move again? Talk about incompetence....

Pinnacle Airlines Corporation (the holding company) and Pinnacle Airlines itself have always been based in MEM, dating back to their founding as Express Airlines I.

Mesaba Airlines (which 9E acquired from DL) was based in MSP.

[Edited 2013-01-04 11:50:17]


Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3908 posts, RR: 27
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 19 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Yes... but under the "leadership" of Phil Trenary he moved the corporate offices from near the airport to a lavish office tower in downtown Memphis. This boondoggle is what MIR is talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if the HDQ moves to the old General Offices that Mesaba occupied.

User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

OO as found or te 200s flying 65 daiy departures for US express in Phx and I don't know how many of me them found homes for AE branded flying.

I'm not arguing te economics of the crj however the actual number of communities that are connected to te world is delta in the Midwest and Minnesota Michigan region on the little birds are huge. With Mesaba gone, big sky gone and Midwest connect gone, many small towns are doomed. I'm just saying pinnacle should ave tbleast thrown a dog in the fight with n offer .

Pinnacle looks like mesa now, a shadow of its order self.


User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 758 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 11):
- 1500 pilots furloughed, 810 remain, only 400 will be Captains. That's 100% pay cut for 1500 people plus 60-70% pay cut for another 400 captains that are being downgraded.

Now don't start that again...It's not a pay CUT when you lose your job; it's a pay LOSS. 100% pay LOSS is an accurate statement b/c they are out of WORK. 100% pay CUT would imply they are still working, but for FREE.

Words matter.

One can say I'm splitting hairs, but arguments (and the people making them) are judged by their accuracy and not their ability to inflame or rile. Use the right words and your point will be given more credence.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 32):
OO as found or te 200s flying 65 daiy departures for US express in Phx and I don't know how many of me them found homes for AE branded flying.

There are 11 CR2s operated by OO for Eagle at LAX, and another 11 operated by EV for Eagle at DFW starting next month. US has 14 OO CR2s.

Total 50-seater figures for OO and EV
-CRJ-100: 7 OO (4 DL, 2 UA, 1 OO)
-CRJ-200: 150 OO (66 UA, 41 DL, 14 US, 11 Eagle, 19 OO as-assigned) plus 106 EV (81 DL, 14 UA, 11 Eagle); total OO + EV CR2s 122 DL, 80 UA, 22 Eagle, 19 as-assigned, and 14 US
-ERJ-135: 7 (all UA)
-ERJ-145: 242 (234 UA, 8 EV charters)

With 126 CR1/2s operating for DL alone, I expect SkyWest Holdings (along with RP's ERD and ER4 flying) to get most, if not all of the DL 50-seat feed. In fact, SkyWest could take all of DL's 50-seat flying with their current fleet as it stands to be. As DL wants to get down to 125 50-seaters, this may be the most likely scenario (possibly with some older OO and EV birds swapped for newer ex-9E examples).

[Edited 2013-01-04 15:41:25]

[Edited 2013-01-04 15:46:34]


Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3908 posts, RR: 27
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 13 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

I just have one question to all those people who are exclaiming it's selfish or foolish to vote no on this issue (many of whom have never nor will ever be in this kind of position). WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH? Best of luck to the PCL people, especially the former Mesaba folks.

User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1552 posts, RR: 5
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 35):
I just have one question to all those people who are exclaiming it's selfish or foolish to vote no on this issue (many of whom have never nor will ever be in this kind of position). WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH? Best of luck to the PCL people, especially the former Mesaba folks.

I agree 100% with this statement. However, one thing you learn in this industry fast, is you really have to be selfish in order to get anywhere. Whether it's smooching some mainline captain for a recommendation, or letting management get away with poor decisions, just to keep food on the table. It would be a huge moral boost for this industry if Pinnacle were to burn the place to the ground, but at the same time, most of the pilots could care less about that and are only concerned with what comes next for them in this messed up world that we know as the airline industry!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlinecrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3740 times:

I'm sure all the people they put out of work will have great morale in the unemployment line.

User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3908 posts, RR: 27
Reply 38, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

Well... someone has to take a stand.

User currently offlinecrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 38):
Well... someone has to take a stand.

Choosing suicide isn't taking the noble stand all you people think it is. It will not change the industry at all. All it will do is make consolidation of the regional industry easier.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 40, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 37):
I'm sure all the people they put out of work will have great morale in the unemployment line.

As wingnutmn said, you have to think about what's best for yourself. For him, that means voting in favor of the contract in order to keep his job, and that's understandable. But for most of the pilots at Pinnacle, whose jobs are going to be gone no matter how they vote, there's nothing to be gained by voting yes and there's stuff to be lost should they want to stay in the industry and go elsewhere.

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 39):
Choosing suicide isn't taking the noble stand all you people think it is.

It's not really suicide if your death warrant has already been signed.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 41, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 40):
there's nothing to be gained by voting yes and there's stuff to be lost should they want to stay in the industry and go elsewhere.

They way I understand it from my friends who are still there, a "yes" vote buys them time to find another job whereas a "no" vote brings a much swifter end to the company, and thus, a much shorter window to find employment elsewhere. A "yes" vote also means a couple months pay and benefits after the furlough takes place.

These guys are truly stuck between a rock and a hard place, especially for those not in the top 800 or so. Through no fault of their own they are being asked to take a big ol' bite out of a big ol' crap sandwich.

[Edited 2013-01-05 17:28:59]


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineViajero From Mexico, joined Aug 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3331 times:
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Quoting azjubilee (Reply 38):
Well... someone has to take a stand.

Isn't that more or less what happened at Eastern? I don't recall that working out too well for many of them. In this economy especially, the employer (irregardless of country or industry) holds the cards. I'm not saying it's just or right, but it is what it is. Poor managerial choices coupled with greed are rampant throughout all industries around the globe and the rank and file pay for it in the end. Obviously in this case, the Pinnacle folks are going to be served a big s**t sandwich, but at least they still have the possiblity at this point of retaining some income through a surviving entity versus no income in the event of shutdown/liquidation.


User currently offlineBostonMike From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

Quoting Viajero (Reply 42):
Poor managerial choices coupled with greed are rampant throughout all industries around the globe and the rank and file pay for it in the end.

There has been a discussion on other threads about the "upcoming pilot shortage". The proposal to increase minimum hours to 1500 (if actually made into law) would certainly give opportunities that were not there before. As always, predicting the future is for fools.

Others can correct me, but I know of no other career path so fraught with risk. It's a total crap shoot and you pay big bucks just to have a seat at the table where the house has all the odds on their side.


User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 32):
Pinnacle looks like mesa now, a shadow of its order self.

True, but Mesa no longer has the 200's (except for GO!) which is a step in the right direction. J.O used the "bankruptcy" to shed Mesa of the CRJ-200's and the ERJ-145's. Now I believe its all CRJ-700's and CRJ-900's


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Quoting BostonMike (Reply 43):

The law has already been passed and goes into effect in August. Many airlines have already implemented the ATP minimums in preparation, that's why regionals are already having a tough time finding qualified applicants. Once the majors start hiring things are going to get very interesting.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 46, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 45):
Many airlines have already implemented the ATP minimums in preparation, that's why regionals are already having a tough time finding qualified applicants. Once the majors start hiring things are going to get very interesting.

And episodes like this don't exactly help encourage people to enter the regional airline industry.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2865 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 46):

Sad but true, I'm afraid.


User currently offlineflight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3394 posts, RR: 6
Reply 48, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 34):
-ERJ-145: 242 (234 UA, 8 EV charters)

All 242 145's are flying for UA.


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