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Aerosvit Bankruptcy  
User currently offlineapruzesse13 From Ukraine, joined Dec 2012, 33 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 22575 times:

Aerosvit "filed for bankruptcy
01/03/13
ImageNa website Uniform register of court decisions in Ukraine was reported decision by the judge of the Commercial Court in the Kiev region decision to initiate proceedings in the bankruptcy. Application has been submitted PJSC "Airline" Aerosvit "in the manner prescribed by the Law of Ukraine" About restoring the solvency of the debtor or the recognition of his bankruptcy. "

Together with a statement the airline put a certificate stating that the total amount of debt owed to creditors amounts to 4 270 million hryvnia, while the value of a business - 1 427 million hryvnia. In this regard, the simultaneous execution of creditors impossible.

The decision was taken on December 29.

Also on 29 December, the Office of the Economic Court of Kyiv region has been filed about the appointment of the liquidator, as which "Aerosvit" offers Talana Leonid. And this Court granted the application. Appointed the liquidator must make an inventory of the property of the company and submit this information to the court.

The next hearing will take place on January 23, 2013.

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 22494 times:

Does that include Dniproavia, Donbassaero and Wind Rose? And are they still operating flights?


'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 497 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 22200 times:

If you do the conversion, the court filings indicate debts of $530M, and places the value of the company at about $177M (both in USD).

Their website still looks like business as normal, but they have just been banned from SVO due to debts owed there, and another recent thread indicated lots of flights were getting cancelled:

http://atwonline.com/airports-routes...s-ukrainian-aerosvit-airlines-0103
Aerosvit Going Under? (by An225 Dec 23 2012 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2013-01-03 15:14:24]


Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21872 times:

A friend of mine flew JFK-KBP-TLV on VV about a week ago... So the airline was already in bankruptcy at the time he flew it... :p

I didn't know he was flying VV until after he made it to TLV. Knowing that VV was having trouble, I was happy to hear that he got there and doesn't have any more VV flights booked.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21835 times:

ARN - KBP delayed until 01.00 from 16.00. I think they have too pay cash at ARN because of debts.

User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4947 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 20822 times:

Wow! This is sad news! Isnt Aerosvit one of the larger privately held carriers? Can the airline reorganize in bankruptcy there? Or does a bankruptcy there pretty much mean its over? Not familiar with Russian bankruptcy laws. I sure hope they survive, especially for the employees. Their service looks pretty nice too.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineflyingbird From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 20634 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 5):
Not familiar with Russian bankruptcy laws.

Aerosvit is a Ukraine airline with it's mane base in Kiev, Ukraine.


User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 20477 times:

The timing of this is bad, with Austrian pulling out of Donetsk, as well. Lufthansa has been selling out quicker. Turkish has a really erratic schedule on IST-DOK, too.....with one day the flight will be 725am, and the next day it will be 615p. Similar type of deal with LOT's JFK-WAW, to mention another factor. Also, some reduction in frequency on overwater flights to a hub with useful connections to Ukrainian cities OTHER THAN Kiev. As a result, a bit more difficult to find a routing that works AND has space.

User currently offlineIwantaBBJ From Switzerland, joined Jun 2002, 773 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 19461 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

At the moment there are two flights operating:

AEW406 SVO-KBP
AEW262 IST-KBP

So the plug hasn't been pulled (yet)


User currently offlineBrusselsSouth From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 623 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 19463 times:

I have flown Aerosvit on 4 distinct occasions (in 2010 and 2012), well, sort of since 3 out of the 4 flights were operated by their partner Dniproavia. The flights themselves were nothing bad (more or less on time and OK service, perhaps a bit of an outdated cabin on the 737).

However, for virtually every flight, the numerous (and sometimes dramatic) schedule changes (after I had booked) and poor automatic rebooking (connection leaving BEFORE inbound flight arrival) left me with the impression of poor scheduling procedures. Their online customer service was always helpful though.

Aerosvit gone would be a serious blow to the Ukrainian air travel market (and make KBP less colorful!).

Regards
BrusselsSouth


User currently offlinealespesl From Czech Republic, joined Jan 2004, 582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 17612 times:

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 7):
The timing of this is bad, with Austrian pulling out of Donetsk, as well. Lufthansa has been selling out quicker. Turkish has a really erratic schedule on IST-DOK, too.....with one day the flight will be 725am, and the next day it will be 615p. Similar type of deal with LOT's JFK-WAW, to mention another factor. Also, some reduction in frequency on overwater flights to a hub with useful connections to Ukrainian cities OTHER THAN Kiev. As a result, a bit more difficult to find a routing that works AND has space.

Try Czech Airlines. They fly to DOK as well.



Next Flight: Oct 10: PRG-MUC-KIV EMB 195/CRJ 900, Oct 12: KIV-MUC-PRG CRJ900/EMB 195 wiht Lufthansa
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 17512 times:

According to CH Aviation, which refers to a statement by Kiev Borispol, Aerosvit has ceased operating at noon today. Their last flight was apparently to Copenhagen.

[Edited 2013-01-04 04:44:06]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6630 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17235 times:

I can't say I'm sorry to see them go, they were a poor quality airline with terrible staff, so I can't even say I feel for the staff, they were probably part of the problem, I've had the misfortune to have to fly with the 5-6 times over the past few years.

User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4055 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17101 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):

I can't say I'm sorry to see them go, they were a poor quality airline with terrible staff, so I can't even say I feel for the staff, they were probably part of the problem, I've had the misfortune to have to fly with the 5-6 times over the past few years.

I agree. They weren't very good as they always seemed to change the flight times and I rarely had any notice and I was generally not impressed by their service when they did fly you out on time. Don't even think about connecting on any of their flights, you would either arrive way too late to make your connection or your connection would leave early, real early with out you. Not a reliable way to travel to the oil fields in Siberia.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineB735 From Estonia, joined Oct 2010, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16579 times:

According to the Kiev Post the airline is not bankrupt, however Boryspil Airport have will not allow any take offs due to unpaid fee's:

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...to-absence-of-payments-318427.html

Same happened in Moscow and Lviv Airports earlier.


In another article the airlines refuses bankruptcy, maintaining they will fulfill their obligations:

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/busi...ilities-to-contractors-318439.html


B735


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7925 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16429 times:

Sad for us, they were an unusual option for the Atlantic run, and to BKK / PEK - but the service was never very good - would it kill you to smile, or say thank you? So Europe's biggest country (by area) has no longhaul flights now? London and Dubai are the furthest you can fly from the capital, Kiev. Right?


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineIwantaBBJ From Switzerland, joined Jun 2002, 773 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16356 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Well, they say they're continuing to fly...

http://global.aerosvit.com/eng/index...infonew/aboutusnew/news/14279.html


User currently onlinesuperjeff From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 15129 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 15):
Sad for us, they were an unusual option for the Atlantic run, and to BKK / PEK - but the service was never very good - would it kill you to smile, or say thank you? So Europe's biggest country (by area) has no longhaul flights now? London and Dubai are the furthest you can fly from the capital, Kiev. Right?

Well, there is still another Ukranian airline based in Kyiv: Ukraine International. They fly primarily 737's and offer a tolerable service level. Are they going to take over some of the routes AeroSvit had monopolies on? It can be extremely difficult to get to Kyiv from a lot of places, including the U.S., and especially if you're heading to places other than Kyiv, such as Odessa, Lviv, etc.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2314 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14474 times:

It is NOT a banktruptcy yet. It is a reconstruction. Aerosvit wants to protect themselves from being declared bankrupt by their creditors. They are trying to reach agreements with their creditors to remove some of their debt.

The statement on their own website is misleading.

I know this from an inside source high up in the hierarchy.

[Edited 2013-01-04 09:27:22]

User currently offlineairlittoralguy From France, joined Nov 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14357 times:

How can they survive if they are not allowed to fly from KBP ?

If they actually disappear these liveries ( Aerosvit, Donbassaero, Windrose) will be greatly missed. They were some of the best in the skies these days ...



Normandie : La r�©unification, maintenant ! http://www.mouvement-normand.com/
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2314 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14337 times:

Also, this has no connection to the other Airlines owned by Kolomoyski just yet.

User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 497 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 13911 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 20):
Also, this has no connection to the other Airlines owned by Kolomoyski just yet.

Does that mean that Donbassaero and Dniproavia are unaffected? Can those carriers still operate at the airports where Aerosvit has been banned?



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2314 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13478 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 21):

As far as I know, yes. I used to work as a pilot for Wind Rose. AFAIK they are so far unaffected.


User currently offlinebbiter From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13370 times:

Flew SIF-KBP on PS this morning, arriving at KBP at around 08:35. Noticed 3 VV 767s parked next to each other, iced over. Same thing with a bunch of VV 737s, 3 Dniproavia ERJ's and 2 Windrose A320's. No activity around any of these aircraft and they all looked as though they had been sitting there a few days already.

Later in the day (13:40) when i flew out of KBP on DY1521 to OSL, all the mentioned aircraft were still where I had noticed them in the morning.

Not looking too good for the group it seems.


User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13212 times:

One of their A32* was stuck in NCE this evening, saw it on the general aviation apron....


If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2314 posts, RR: 21
Reply 25, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13460 times:

Quoting bbiter (Reply 23):
Noticed 3 VV 767s parked next to each other, iced over. Same thing with a bunch of VV 737s, 3 Dniproavia ERJ's and 2 Windrose A320's.

Could be a standard day though.. there are almost always at least three 767s parked at a remote stand there. But maybe you are right.

Edit:

A quick look at flightradar24 reveals that there are several aerosvit, donbassaero and even a windrose flight going on right now.

[Edited 2013-01-04 11:47:33]

User currently offlinetransaeroyyz From Canada, joined Dec 2010, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13181 times:

Why didn't they stick to thier core revenue flights, instead of this needless mass expanstion in this past year, which has led this downfall for sure.

User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12950 times:

Was in WAW today. VV to Kiev was suppose to leave around 3 PM.
Flight is shown as "delayed". Check in counter was open and people were told that airline suspended operations. Nevertheless it was never marked as "cancelled" and is still "delayed".

I came back at around 7PM at the airport, and quite surprisngly the VV aircraft was there! It departed Kiev and came in to WAW somehow. That said, cabin lights were on, front door open, a few staff, but no passengers or any loading activity etc. And that was 5 hours after Scheduled type of departure. Plus the aircraft is parked on a apron position, but this may not mean anything. Doesn't look it can depart somehow. But this is speculation.

I am just wondering why they send planes to WAW, where they risk it to be blocked, because to me it looks like someone in WAW did not got the money and don't want the plane to leave.


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 497 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12891 times:

They are reporting debts of about $530M. Does anybody know anything about how that breaks down? They allegedly owe more than $5M to SVO for fuel and security fees according to the ATW article and others. Could they owe that much at other stations as well? How much have that debt is aircraft financing? Is there a good fleet reference that would show which of their aircraft are onwed/leased/financed? The linked articles indicate that VV has assets worth about $180M. What assets do they have other than aircraft?


Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12753 times:

I read that Ukraine Internations was taking over some of VV flights.

User currently offlineSkyeurope From Germany, joined May 2006, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12752 times:

Quoting reifel (Reply 27):
Was in WAW today. VV to Kiev was suppose to leave around 3 PM.
Flight is shown as "delayed". Check in counter was open and people were told that airline suspended operations. Nevertheless it was never marked as "cancelled" and is still "delayed".

VV208 from Warsaw is expected to arrive in Kiev at 23:53, so they did manage to leave WAW.


User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12750 times:

This will most likely mark the end of VV. PS will take over some of their routes.

You know that things are going wrong when you owe money to domestic airports and they ban you from flying there as LWO did.



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12615 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 25):
there are almost always at least three 767s parked at a remote stand there. But maybe you are right.

Yes, some with missing engines, others simply not utilized.



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 533 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12226 times:

According to a contact, CPH are holding back an aircraft this evening due to unpaid fees at the airport.

Anyone know more?


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5318 posts, RR: 30
Reply 34, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12036 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 33):
According to a contact, CPH are holding back an aircraft this evening due to unpaid fees at the airport.

That's one way to pay off your debts...just leave aircraft at airports where you owe money.



What the...?
User currently offlinecopenhagenboy From Denmark, joined Sep 2001, 595 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11396 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 33):
According to a contact, CPH are holding back an aircraft this evening due to unpaid fees at the airport.

Anyone know more?

It is confirmed by the airport.


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 36, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11276 times:

Visually checked a moment ago (12:10h lt), the is a yellow and blue VV aircraft parked on a remote stand northwest of WAW's terminal building. Viewed from the Courtyard hotel it looks like a B737; it had been there already this morning around 10:00h.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineSkyeurope From Germany, joined May 2006, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11206 times:

It seems like this should have been yesterday's VV208 WAW-KBP, which was expected to arrive in Kiev at 23:53. Today this flight is shown as cancelled on kbp.aero.

User currently offlineB735 From Estonia, joined Oct 2010, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11044 times:

CPH took a huge loos when Cimber Sterling collapsed last year. Cimber had, until the collapse, same owners as Aerosvit. According to the airport there is about US$ in unpaid fees and the airport wants to secure these in case Aerosvit folds.

B735


User currently offlineB735 From Estonia, joined Oct 2010, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10662 times:

US$ 100.000 that is!

User currently offlineTimRees From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10537 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 25):
One of their A32* was stuck in NCE this evening, saw it on the general aviation apron....

This was UR-DAC an orange liveried A320 of Donbassaero. I taxied past her leaving NCE on 2.1.13


User currently offlinethunderboltdrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 484 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9811 times:

Accrding to Flightradar24;

Quote:
Flightradar24.com ‏@flightradar24

At least 4 Aerosvit aircraft are being held back at CPH, ARN, WAW, TLV due to unpaid fees and bills.

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/287997149503975424



Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky
User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9806 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 36):
Visually checked a moment ago (12:10h lt), the is a yellow and blue VV aircraft parked on a remote stand northwest of WAW's terminal building. Viewed from the Courtyard hotel it looks like a B737; it had been there already this morning around 10:00h.

WAW is holding VV's 737 UK-KIV for unpaid bills.


User currently offlineapruzesse13 From Ukraine, joined Dec 2012, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9714 times:

UR-KIV is actually part of Dniproavia fleet, not Aerosvit

User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9688 times:

PS is in the process of negotiating the labor of part of Aerosvit's cabin crew and are (supposedly) in talks to acquire some of the newer members of the fleet.


“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlineapruzesse13 From Ukraine, joined Dec 2012, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9691 times:

Classic Ukrainian scheme! UIA is owned by same owner as Aerosvit. You transfer the good assets to UIA, leave the debt in Aerosvit and you continue as if nothing had happened!!

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 46, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9601 times:

It was funny to see today that LO's flight between WAW and KBP still has a VV-code on WAW's departure board.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9466 times:

Quoting apruzesse13 (Reply 45):
UIA is owned by same owner as Aerosvit.

There's a statement on UIA's web site saying that isn't true, though that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't...



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9392 times:

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 30):
VV208 from Warsaw is expected to arrive in Kiev at 23:53, so they did manage to leave WAW.

Strange, the aircraft was still sitting today in WAW on a remote position without any activity. Probably no one wants to cater/refuel/let them go.

What are they playing? Everyone can see that numerous flights are cancelled, delayed, aircrafts on the ground. They should tell the truth to their customers...


User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9213 times:

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 47):
UIA is owned by same owner as Aerosvit.

PS was owned by Austrian Airlines up until 2 weeks ago when the company was sold to a Cypriot based corporation.



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently onlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6288 posts, RR: 54
Reply 50, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9131 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 34):
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 33):
According to a contact, CPH are holding back an aircraft this evening due to unpaid fees at the airport.

That's one way to pay off your debts...just leave aircraft at airports where you owe money.

Not if they are declared bankrupt. That's at least not how it works here. CPH can hold the plane for unpaid fees only while Aerosvit is a running company.

CPH is what is called a "simple creditor". In case of bankruptcy the Ukrainian bankruptcy court will rule over all Aerosvit properties and can take the plane to wherever they want. CPH will eventually be paid a percentage of the debt when the court has ruled (in a few years time).

Very likely zero percent, since in many countries wages and government taxes have priority over "simple creditors". That's at least how it is here in Denmark, but in this case Ukrainian law will apply.

CPH will eat the rest as a loss - and they will survive losing those $100 grand.

Holding the plane is a way to limit the debt to current level, and a very strong incentive to pay off the debt in case they want to continue operation.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2358 posts, RR: 29
Reply 51, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8733 times:

Quoting apruzesse13 (Reply 45):
Classic Ukrainian scheme! UIA is owned by same owner as Aerosvit. You transfer the good assets to UIA, leave the debt in Aerosvit and you continue as if nothing had happened!!

I am pretty sure this is the case. As soon as Ontobet Promotions had taken full control of PS (before the acquisition even was made public), they started announcing or at least loading ex-VV routes one after the other from mid-December onwards. Then right before the temporary KBP grounding and immediately following the VV bankruptcy filing, a huge amount of additional routes have been loaded by PS and cancelled by VV from the end of March onwards etc. on the same date. So this must have been jointly decided between the two carriers. PS cannot operate all of these routes with its current fleet. So I assume the owners will intentionally let Aerosvit and possibly Dniproavia go bankrupt and then transfer some aircraft and staff to UIA. Then they will have less competition and no debts.



Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2358 posts, RR: 29
Reply 52, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8441 times:

I have done some more research on this today (summarized here: http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airline.php?cha=VV)
1) Donbassaero is no longer flying for Aerosvit.
2) Since January 4, Aerosvit has only operated six aircraft (1 735, 1 73G, 2 73H, 2 763) and Dniproavia 1 735 and some ER4s (can't figure out how many are still operational).
3) The schedule changes between VV and PS that seem to have happened on a weekly basis and now have been intensified since the bankruptcy filing are clearly coordinated between the two carriers. UIA would need at least 29 B737s and the three An-148s on a random day analysed in summer (July 15) to operate all of the flights now scheduled. That means at least 12 B737s need to come from somewhere including staff (probably Aerosvit).



Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineBralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8197 times:

Isn't PS partially owned by Lufthansa? I thought to have read somewhere that Lufthansa holds a stake of 20 to 25% in the company?

User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2358 posts, RR: 29
Reply 54, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8130 times:

Austrian used to know a stake around these numbers but now UIA is fully controlled by Ontobet Promotions from Cyprus that is likely owned by unknown Ukrainian investors.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 55, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7956 times:

Quoting reifel (Reply 48):
Strange, the aircraft was still sitting today in WAW on a remote position without any activity. Probably no one wants to cater/refuel/let them go.

Monday, 07-JAN around 1300h door 1L was open and airstairs were attached.

Might WAW also act as a safe haven for the aircraft i.e. out of reach of bankruptcy prosecutors ?
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineSkyeurope From Germany, joined May 2006, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7932 times:

@Reifel

Yes, they did not leave WAW. I have no idea why they showed an expected arrival time on kbp.aero.

[Edited 2013-01-08 10:22:02]

User currently onlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6288 posts, RR: 54
Reply 57, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 7696 times:

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 52):
I have done some more research on this today (summarized here: http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/air...a=VV)

Remove the ")" in the tail end of the link, then it works.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 7591 times:

Quoting irshava (Reply 49):
PS was owned by Austrian Airlines up until 2 weeks ago when the company was sold to a Cypriot based corporation.

UIA's ownership structure seems opaque to say the least.

According to FlightGlobal, when the airline was privatized in 2011, its two biggest shareholders were two Austrian companies, UIA Beteiligungsgesellschaft (59%) and UIA Holding (26%), each of which had once been owned by Austrian airlines, but which had since been sold to undisclosed buyers. The remaining 15% was owned by a Ukrainian company called Capital Investment Project.

The Kyiv Post reported last month that UIA is now 26% owned by the Cypriot company Ontobet Promotions and 74% by Capital Investment Project, which is owned by Investment Projects Management, which is owned by Ontobet Promotions (thus adding up to 100% ownership by Ontobet Promotions). So on the surface of it the ownership of UIA has changed quite a bit at some point in the third quarter of 2012. But if the identity of the actual "former" owners and the actual "new" owners are unknown, it is entirely possible that the actual control of the airline didn't change at all, just as it could change without any change in the legal ownership of the company.

On another note, I had didn't realize that Aerosvit was still (or ever) partly state-owned. How does that factor into the bankruptcy, I wonder?



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlinealfa164 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

AeroSvit apparently announced discontinuation of KBP-JFK permanently, even if it continues to fly some routes.

I just wonder if this might lead DL to reestablish their flights here. They would seem to be the obvious one to do so, since they have previous experience here.


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 497 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6830 times:

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 59):
I just wonder if this might lead DL to reestablish their flights here.

I wouldn't be surprised if KBP airport, the city or Kiev and/or the Ukrainian government already dispatched a delegation to ATL. UA might be a possibility to EWR, but I agree that DL is the logical candidate. I would love to see DL pick up the route again, even if seasonal and/or less than daily. Kiev is a wonderful city that IMO deserves connections to North America. It would also be nice if they could partner with PS or another local carrier for onward connections in Ukraine and the region.



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 61, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6768 times:

I agree, however you may serve all (if not more) beyond KIEV destinations with i.e. a partner like OS from VIE.

User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 497 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

Quoting reifel (Reply 61):

Sort of. Let's look at the biggest markets outside of Kiev, and the service they have from major alliance carriers (info from Wikipedia -- apologies if I missed anything):
HRV: SkyTeam - SU; Star - OS
DOK: SkyTeam - SU and OK; Star - LO, LH and TK
DNK: SkyTeam - SU; Star - OS and TK
ODS: SkyTeam - SU and OK; Star - LO, LH and TK; OW - S7
LWO: Star - OS, LO, LH and TK
SIP: SkyTeam - SU; Star - TK; OW - S7

Star appears to have the best coverage in secondary Ukrainian markets, followed by ST, with OW a distant third. TK and SU appear to serve the most destinations. My suggestion that DL get a local partner if they re-launch KBP was specific to DL and is related to my own experience trying to book SkyTeam flights last year to DOK or DNK. None of the cities in the above list are served by KL, AF or AZ through the JV, making it just a little harder to book tickets than it needs to be. I can book BZN-DOK on united.com, but delta.com doesn't even recognize the DOK code. I can only book it with an interline ticket via a 3rd party website, or maybe via a phone call to DL.



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6500 times:

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 59):
AeroSvit apparently announced discontinuation of KBP-JFK permanently, even if it continues to fly some routes.

I don't understand why - flights in the summer were always full with the minimum ticket price being 1100$ and flights during other seasons were always 85%+ full...



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
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