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Question About Wardair Airbus A300s  
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1641 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

During the mid-'80s, Wardair leased three A300s from South African Airways. Two aircraft were B4-203 and one, seen below, a C4-203 with a side cargo door between doors L1 and L2. Was that aircraft ever used in some sort of cargo ops by WD, or was it only operated for passengers ?


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27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24858 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Thread starter):
Was that aircraft ever used in some sort of cargo ops by WD, or was it only operated for passengers ?

Passengers only to the best of my memory. Their 707s of course also had a main deck cargo door like all 707-320Cs but I doubt Wardair ever had any reason to open it.


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1641 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
Passengers only to the best of my memory.

Thanks.



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User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2226 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Was this one of the aircraft that the Canadian government bought for military use as the CC140 Polaris? The cargo door would be a bonus. Or was the 4 of the 5 that have cargo capacity, converted from regular passenger versions of the A310 from Wardair. Two have since been converted to MMRT. The 5th is transport and convertible to VIP.

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined exactly 3 years ago today! , 2127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4579 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 3):

This is an A300. The CC-150 Polaris are all A310s. This A300 was returned to South African and eventually made its way over to Ceiba Cargo.


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1641 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4564 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 3):
Was this one of the aircraft that the Canadian government bought for military use as the CC140 Polaris? The cargo door would be a bonus. Or was the 4 of the 5 that have cargo capacity, converted from regular passenger versions of the A310 from Wardair. Two have since been converted to MMRT. The 5th is transport and convertible to VIP.

All the aircraft you are referring to are A310-300 that were indeed bought and operated by Wardair and converted for military and government purposes (CC-150). The one in my question was an A300C4-203. It was leased for a period of time from South African Airways during the 1980s and returned to that airline at the end of the lease



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User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4913 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4564 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 3):
Was this one of the aircraft that the Canadian government bought for military use as the CC140 Polaris?

No, those were A310s.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Thread starter):
Was that aircraft ever used in some sort of cargo ops by WD, or was it only operated for passengers ?

Wardair never carried freight on the A300s. In fact, that ship was a little heavier, so it was the first to go when the A310s started to arrive.

It was named Herbert Hollick-Kenyon, (Mr. Ward named his aircraft after famous aviators in Canada), and you will notice that C-GIZL was unnamed on delivery to Wardair. It became the Herbert Hollick-Kenyon after C-GIZN left.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinecargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1259 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4541 times:

SAA and Hapag-Lloyd both used A300's with cargo doors for mixed missions in the 1980s. This was long before the A300-600F, but there wasn't alot of demand for the A300-C4.

Quoting Polot (Reply 4):
Ceiba Cargo.

It's operated for Ceiba by MNG Cargo.


User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2226 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):
Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 3):
Was this one of the aircraft that the Canadian government bought for military use as the CC140 Polaris?

No, those were A310s.

Sorry my bad doing three things at once here, I knew the Polaris weren't A300's but didn't read the first post carefully enough..

I flew the A310's when Wairdair put the semi first class cabins but not the A300. You could buy the upgrade at the gate for $25 at the beginning if the front wasn't booked. And their food was halfway between AC Executive First and Economy. Wardair was certainly a favourite carrier for trips to Hawaii. Trying to become an airline put them into another level of expense that doomed them. Max Ward actually was a tenant of my grandfather in the early days in Edmonton.

[Edited 2013-01-04 10:04:48]

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4913 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4493 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 8):
Wardair was certainly a favourite carrier for trips to Hawaii. Trying to become an airline put them into another level of expense that doomed them. Max Ward actually was a tenant of my grandfather in the early days in Edmonton.

I don't think Wardair could have survived in today's market. Serving Economy passengers in three courses on Royal Doulton china has no place with today's price conscious travellers! Shoot, they even served juice and hot towels (or cold towels from southern destinations) before take-off ... in Economy!

Mr. Ward was a great guy to work for. He demanded perfection and in return gave us the best tools to do just that. I remember getting on an A310 once to work a southern flight, and he was in the back checking every seat pocket to make sure there was an A310 postcard ... and became irate when one DC-10 postcard was placed in error!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1641 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4466 times:

Quoting cargolex (Reply 7):
there wasn't alot of demand for the A300-C4.

Actually, just a handful for SA, HF, and TOA Domestic, plus two white tails that were converted to F4-203 and delivered to KE.



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User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1641 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):
It was named Herbert Hollick-Kenyon, (Mr. Ward named his aircraft after famous aviators in Canada), and you will notice that C-GIZL was unnamed on delivery to Wardair. It became the Herbert Hollick-Kenyon after C-GIZN left.

Yes indeed, and the name should have been applied to C-FZWD, but it was one of the two A310s that were NTU.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):
In fact, that ship was a little heavier, so it was the first to go when the A310s started to arrive.

Apparently there was a time gap of almost four months between the two.



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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24858 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 8):
Max Ward actually was a tenant of my grandfather in the early days in Edmonton.
Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):
Mr. Ward was a great guy to work for. He demanded perfection and in return gave us the best tools to do just that. I remember getting on an A310 once to work a southern flight, and he was in the back checking every seat pocket to make sure there was an A310 postcard ... and became irate when one DC-10 postcard was placed in error!

Max Ward turned 91 on November 22 and seems to be in good health. He still lives in Edmonton where he was born. His phone number is in the phone book.

Globe & Mail interview last June.
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-...try/article4219779/?service=mobile

Another item:
http://www.wingsmagazine.com/content/view/3186/38/

Interesting 1984 National Film Board of Canada documentary on Max Ward and Wardair, a few years before their big (and possibly unwise) expansion into scheduled service and introduction of the 12 A310s.
http://www.nfb.ca/film/max_ward



[Edited 2013-01-04 15:29:25]

User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2226 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3996 times:

I think had Wardair survived until the demise of Canadian (a big if) it would have been a great charter alternative to Air Transat more along the lines of Sunwing. The move into scheduled service looked good at the time. CP Air and then Canadian's strategy of keeping alive and growing with acquisition of smaller airlines spelled the end of many of the "oldies" that used to exist. I wish Max well and wonder when the last time he piloted an aircraft was. I know he still flew his personal Twin Otter for a long time. He still has many fans. A former employee of his, who is now a manager of the Asian Supermarket Chain T & T, still sings his praises as the best boss he has ever worked for.

User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

One of my earliest memories is of Wardair B747s and DC10s at Prestwick in the summer. Compared to British Airways, Air Canada and NWO, they were impeccable timekeepers. It became a different animal once the A310s came along.

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4913 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 14):
It became a different animal once the A310s came along.

I had heard that a lot when flying there.

The main cause was the use of the A310s themselves. Instead of just international charter flying performed by the B747s and DC-10s, the A310s were also domestic scheduled flying as well. So where the B747s and DC-10s had long gaps of free time between flights, it was not uncommon for an A310 to be doing YVR-YYZ-YUL-YYZ .. then YYZ-YOW-LGW, so just like a regular airline like BA, AC and NW you mention, often the international operation was affected by domestic operations.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3950 times:

Those 3 A300's were leased from SAA. The C4 was in service with WD for only 11 months. The 2 B4's lasted less than 3 years in WD service.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):
I don't think Wardair could have survived in today's market.

They would have to had greatly reduced costs and become a lean charter carrier.

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 13):
I think had Wardair survived until the demise of Canadian (a big if) it would have been a great charter alternative to Air Transat more along the lines of Sunwing.

WD should have stuck with its charter routes/roots. Its move to sked service and massive expansion led to its demise.

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 13):
The move into scheduled service looked good at the time.

Even then there were warning signs about too much expansion at WD. Massive orders for 12 A313's, 8 M88's and 16 F100's into a market that was arguably not growing was surprising (the M88 and F100 orders were of course cancelled). MW said at the time that the only way WD could survive was to move into sked ops (he did not say why though). Clearly, it was the wrong strategy.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4913 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3919 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 16):
Clearly, it was the wrong strategy.

My own theory, (and solely my own theory), is that Mr. Ward was "needling" AC or CP into buying them with the threat of a large fleet flying domestically.

Also, with the purchase of the A310s he got the rights into CDG, and with the order of the F100s, he got the rights into AMS, not a bad negotiator! Also, there was talk that WD was about to be designated as the second carrier into Japan ... something neither AC nor CP wanted.

With the purchase of WD by PWA Corp, not only did he get a boat load of cash, all of his employees had jobs.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2226 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 17):
My own theory, (and solely my own theory), is that Mr. Ward was "needling" AC or CP into buying them with the threat of a large fleet flying domestically.

I agree that this was probably the biggest goal of the "threat" of expansion.


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1641 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3891 times:

Here are the links of a three pages paper from 1988 about Wardair metamorphosis.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...988%20-%203544.html?search=Wardair

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...988%20-%203546.html?search=Wardair

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...988%20-%203547.html?search=Wardair



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User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 17):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 16):
Clearly, it was the wrong strategy.

My own theory, (and solely my own theory), is that Mr. Ward was "needling" AC or CP into buying them with the threat of a large fleet flying domestically.

Perhaps! That's a risky strategy though. He could have bankrupted WD without a buyer.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 17):
With the purchase of WD by PWA Corp, not only did he get a boat load of cash, all of his employees had jobs.

And PWA acquired an incompatible fleet and vastly different corporate culture which did not provide any apparent profit boost or synergy. The PWA purchase of WD never made sense for PW IMO but that's a different topic.

SpaceshipDC10, thanks for posting that article.

Here's some WD A310 trivia: WD placed an original order for 6 A310-200 in 1981. This order was cancelled soon after (likely due to 81/82 recession). The 313 order was placed in 1987.

[Edited 2013-01-05 13:01:12]


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1641 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 16):
The C4 was in service with WD for only 11 months.

According to the book "A History of Airlines in Canada" that I've just unearthed, it seems that SA recalled one of the three, which could just be the C4 since the other two stayed in Canada almost three years.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 20):
Here's some WD A310 trivia: WD placed an original order for 6 A310-200 in 1981. This order was cancelled soon after (likely due to 81/82 recession)

Still according to the above book, an order for six A310s plus six options was placed in late 1981. In April 1982, the delivery date of those was postponed until 1985, before the order was finally cancelled in 1983.



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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24858 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 21):
Still according to the above book, an order for six A310s plus six options was placed in late 1981. In April 1982, the delivery date of those was postponed until 1985, before the order was finally cancelled in 1983.

I noted an A310 model in Wardair livery on a desk in the 1984 video documentary (link in Reply 12).


User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Thread starter):
Was that aircraft ever used in some sort of cargo ops by WD, or was it only operated for passengers ?

WD never had cargo only ops using it's Airbus aircraft.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):
Mr. Ward was a great guy to work for. He demanded perfection and in return gave us the best tools to do just that.

I'll agree that he was a great model to emulate. As a passenger services agent in Ottawa, hearing about the state of labour relations at YYZ, I'd say there was much to be desired. Grievances in Toronto were handled by categories and the turnover was unsustainable.

As for the best tools, I must also respectfully disagree. Ward was a pilot and so was very much partial to his aircraft and those tools of the trade. When it came to the reservations system (SystemOne) it had a lot to be desired. We in Ottawa had been contracted to handle CO and so we were very fluent in the CRS. We used it just as it was designed and intended. Certain functions were centralized in Houston and Denver while some functions were farmed out to the various stations. It worked very well.

Wardair's version was very much scaled down. Worse, the functions were almost completely inverted. Those functions that were centralized at CO, were decentralized at WD and those functions that should have been controlled at the airports were controlled centrally. The entire system was misused. I was named as a local trainer for the system and the training department hated me because in the "train the trainer" sessions, I would ask questions that make the training department look like idiots (didn't help I was 20 at the time). I was teaching the instructors stuff they were simply not aware of- and demonstrating shortcuts to make the airport agent's job easier and quicker.

I can't blame Max for these shortcomings, but the management responsible for the implementation of the CRS was abysmal. It was there that I learned the Truth behind the corporate political mantra that "knowledge is power". The turf wars at WD were legend. Surely you remember that.  

When the two operations merged, and I recall this distinctly, and the two wage scales were merged, whereby the WD wage scale was matched to the CP wage scale and then the next increment up on the CP scale was what the WD people were paid, I went from $8.02 with two full years of service with WD to CP's starting wage for their airport agents, $8.03. One full penny per hour. Max was a good businessman in some ways. But cheeeeep. lol

That said, the Wardair Standard still lives in me today. I still have my WD Service Specialist pin and, working at transit in Vancouver, I am the only transit operator with 145 customer commendations in its 100+ year history- all collected in less than 5 years of service. My 'secret knowhow' is attributable to Wardair and its exacting standards. I still remember that the little crown on the Wardair "W" represents some Scandinavian symbol of excellence- something that Mr Ward found in some magazine himself. I remember that from my initial training- and I draw on those details sometimes when dealing with particularly difficult passengers on my bus.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 16):
Even then there were warning signs about too much expansion at WD. Massive orders for 12 A313's, 8 M88's and 16 F100's into a market that was arguably not growing was surprising (the M88 and F100 orders were of course cancelled).

By my recollection, the A310s bankrupted Wardair. They were not really intended to be used in the long-term for the domestic routes. That was supposed to be the domain of the M88s and F100s.

However, there was a backorder on the M88s with the glass cockpits and McDonnell Douglas was trying to pawn off M82s or M83s with steam gauges at a discounted price and Max wouldn't take them- not even on lease. THAT was the bad advice he got from his team. If we had the older-designed aircraft, I'd gently suggest that Wardair would still be in the game. Instead, while waiting for the smaller and less fuel-demanding aircraft that would have allowed us to provide the frequency in the Golden Triangle and a presence in Halifax, we were haemorrhaging money because our A310s while flexible enough to be used on domestic routes were not well suited for the job.

An example. We were the first flight out of YOW to YYZ every day. 06:50am. During the fare war with CP, we were offering $99.00 YOWYYZ RETURN! I recall on many occasions we'd have just 2 or 3 pax for the flight (196 seat A/C) and for W&B they'd have to be upgraded to J. Talk about losing our shirt!

Quoting longhauler (Reply 17):
With the purchase of WD by PWA Corp, not only did he get a boat load of cash, all of his employees had jobs.

Sorry, I have to disagree. We lost about 25 agents out of our ranks with the merger. And that was just at the airport in Ottawa. It wasn't a total disaster I will agree but it wasn't a bowl of cherries either.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 17):
My own theory, (and solely my own theory), is that Mr. Ward was "needling" AC or CP into buying them with the threat of a large fleet flying domestically.

That is a theory I had never thought of. From my perspective, we were out to supplant CP as the major competitor to Air Canada, still very much the dominant force in the late 1980s. CP turned its sights on WD and gave it to us with both barrels. I remember there was noise that CX was looking for a Canadian domestic partner and recall hearing that they had been sniffing around to inject some cash into WD. When that fell through we were doomed. At least that's how I remember it playing out.

I may sound like I have sour grapes over my time at WD and its demise. In fact I feel quite the opposite. It was one of the most exhilarating times of my life. I loved working at YOW. I loved the work and I loved the flexibility I had there while I was going to university. I recall my time there very fondly.

I had my entire career path worked out there: I had even done an information interview with the government relations Manager as that was where I saw myself headed. I just see all these errors and mismanagement (at the highest levels) as part of my schooling of hard knocks- and I see them realistically.

Just as an aside, Trick, I remember that for training, the aircraft that operated WD351 into YOW at 23:30 was then used for a training flight to YMX (no curfews in YOW and YMX). I got permission to fly on one of those training flights from the chief pilot and sat in the second jump seat behind the pilot. We There were two training pilots so we did a total of 6 touch-and-gos at YMX (3 for each pilot) where the third takeoff the chief pilot pulled the right engine to idle just after gear-up. Do you remember those flights? Might we have even been on the same flight? Just curious.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4913 posts, RR: 43
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3396 times:

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 23):
As for the best tools, I must also respectfully disagree. Ward was a pilot and so was very much partial to his aircraft and those tools of the trade.

From my perspective, yes, that is what I meant. He always bought the best, with the most options, and the biggest engines. I remember being in Toulouse on my A310 course when talking with one of the Airbus Engineers, and he mentioned that Wardair bought options on the A310 uninstalled on any other airlines' aircraft.

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 23):
That said, the Wardair Standard still lives in me today.

And me as well. I never forget who is actually paying our wages ... and it sure isn't the union nor the government! I too have won a few service awards ... odd for a pilot, a non Customer contact position, LOL ... but the Topflight award once, and the Award of Excellence twice.

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 23):
By my recollection, the A310s bankrupted Wardair.

As you know, Wardair never actually went bankrupt ... but was sure headed that way. I don't think it was much to do with the operation, as WD's costs were less than CP and far less than AC. I think it was just a money game. Fares were set below cost for all airlines, and it was a matter of waiting ... whoever had the most cash, won. And, ultimately, with AC's large cash reserves, they won.

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 23):
Do you remember those flights? Might we have even been on the same flight? Just curious.

I did one of those flights once. My touch and goes on the A300 were in South Africa where I did training, but when I became an A310 Captain, we did as you mention. We flew to YOW to pick up an aircraft, fly to YMX for touch and goes, then return the aircraft to YOW, and take the first flight of the morning to YYZ.

You may well have been there! There were three Captain candidates doing training that night.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 24):
From my perspective, yes, that is what I meant. He always bought the best, with the most options, and the biggest engines. I remember being in Toulouse on my A310 course when talking with one of the Airbus Engineers, and he mentioned that Wardair bought options on the A310 uninstalled on any other airlines' aircraft.

My next major operations job was with Gray Line of Vancouver. The bus company was owned and run by accountants. It was solvent- solid as a rock but the equipment... you could tell the buses weren't bought by a coach driver! lol

Quoting longhauler (Reply 24):
And me as well. I never forget who is actually paying our wages ... and it sure isn't the union nor the government! I too have won a few service awards ... odd for a pilot, a non Customer contact position, LOL ... but the Topflight award once, and the Award of Excellence twice.

Wow. That's impressive! Congratulations!

Quoting longhauler (Reply 24):
And, ultimately, with AC's large cash reserves, they won.

Alas, so is the case.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 24):
You may well have been there! There were three Captain candidates doing training that night.

lol. No, there were only the 4 seats in the cockpit and I sat there the whole time. My name was on no manifest making me officially a stowaway I suppose. I've always wanted to fly but have never gotten there. The night I flew there were two Captains training. The second guy wildly over-compenasted for the right-engine failure. That plane bucked like a wild bronco as he jammed hard rudder then ailerons. Actually now that I think about it we did an extra round for him to try again and he got it smoothly the second time before heading back to YOW.


User currently offlineNDWDCPGUY From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

That cargo door was never opened the whole time Wardair operated the aircraft.

User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1641 posts, RR: 3
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 23):
WD never had cargo only ops using it's Airbus aircraft.
Quoting NDWDCPGUY (Reply 26):
That cargo door was never opened the whole time Wardair operated the aircraft.

Alright then, thanks.



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