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AA CEO To Make Merger Decision Soon  
User currently offlineallegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 177 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 26419 times:

In these articles they talk about how AA CEO Tom Horton is about to make a merger decision in the next few weeks. He doesnt know when though,but it could be soon. This should be an interesting result and i can not wait to hear the Decisions in the upcoming weeks

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...will-come-in-a-matter-of-weeks.ece

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01...ness-briefs-american-airlines.html

201 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 486 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 26334 times:

He's actually not making the decision. The UCC is. Horton just wants the world to believe the choice to merge with US will be his. It won't be.

User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 26243 times:

About time. I'm not surprised. This will start a war of merge vs. Don't merge.

And while the UCC might ultimately make this decision, a CEO might have a wee bit of (attempted) input.

Interesting if the expiration date of the non-disclosure agreement will slow or increase the speed of things, or let us know any info. I somehow doubt it.


User currently offlinedcann40 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 26040 times:

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 1):
He's actually not making the decision. The UCC is. Horton just wants the world to believe the choice to merge with US will be his. It won't be.

Your post makes it sound as if the decision to merge has been made. It hasn't been (if the decision to merge had been made, it would also have been announced).

M&A is a very complicated affair and nothing is certain until the deal closes.

It's possible that a merger could take place while AA is in BK but, with every day that passes, that becomes less likely.

The UCC isn't looking to get the maximum value based on today, it has to be forward looking as well.

Given AA's newfound strength in the past nine months, the UCC may very well decide that it supports the company's emergence from BK as a standalone entity. Or not.

I take it that most people on this board don't have any kind of M&A background. While my airline background is nonexistent (as an employee), my M&A background is quite strong.

The only deal that's a done deal is one that has been signed by both parties. Anything else is speculation, even if a merger is announced.

P.S. The articles cited in the OP don't really give any indication that CEO Horton feels he is controlling the decision. It's his job as CEO to tell employees what he did, including saying that a decision is expected in a matter of weeks. That's not the same thing as what one poster here characterized as trying to make it seem as if he is controlling the decision. Horton's not stupid, in fact he seems to be a good manager. It would be foolhardy for him to say otherwise.

[Edited 2013-01-03 20:44:26]

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 26027 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 2):
And while the UCC might ultimately make this decision, a CEO might have a wee bit of (attempted) input.

Stupid question- What's UCC? BK court?

I highly doubt this is going to happen. Too much going on with both sides right now. Good try but no dice. Thankfully.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9400 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 25938 times:

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 3):

Your post makes it sound as if the decision to merge has been made. It hasn't been (if the decision to merge had been made, it would also have been announced).

Not at all. JFK is right. Horton isn't making the decision. period.


Horton does however wish he was nearly as powerful as he makes himself out to be.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2013-01-03 20:56:14]


yep.
User currently offlinedcann40 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 25923 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
Stupid question- What's UCC? BK court?

Not a stupid question. It's the Unsecured Creditors Committee.

AA employees know this term because keep hearing it in a variety of venues with the intent that they should believe somehow that the UCC will somehow look past all of the significant disadvantages of a merger led by LCC (and there are many, all to AA's detriment). Even AA's FA union signs its messages "AA+US - Our Future Depends On It," in an attempt to get more people to drink the Kool-Aid. The UCC doesn't drink this beverage. Their job is to look out for themselves and it's become increasingly clear that having AA emerge from BK in tact will create more value to the unsecured creditors, even in the short term.


User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1084 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 25834 times:

In the mean time AA FA's union signs the MOU to merge .
APFA Signs MOU
APFA has agreed to a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), clarifying several points contained within the Bridge Agreement the union signed with US Airways last Spring. This MOU further illuminates the financial benefits of a merger to AMR’s creditors. APFA is currently operating under a judicially-enforceable non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with regards to merger discussions, which means that as long as this restriction is in place, we are not able to divulge specific details of the MOU.

AmericanAirlines + US Airways
"Our Future Depends On It"


User currently offlineBarryH From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 25811 times:

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 1):
He's actually not making the decision. The UCC is. Horton just wants the world to believe the choice to merge with US will be his. It won't be.

You're right, he's obviously an egomaniac. The use of the word "we" is just a smoke screen.  

“As you know, we continue the process we embarked upon months ago to carefully assess how we can deliver the greatest value for our stakeholders and the best outcome for our people and customers,” Horton wrote.

“Together with our Board, and the Creditors’ Committee, we asked our unions and those of US Airways to join the discussions underway in order to better evaluate the potential benefits, costs and risks of a potential merger,” his letter said.


User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 486 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 25674 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 2):
And while the UCC might ultimately make this decision, a CEO might have a wee bit of (attempted) input.

The only thing left for Horton to do at this point is stand in the room in front of them and beg.


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 25549 times:

I'd look for some kind of news on January 9th. A merger wouldn't at all surprise me. I was very skeptical at first and still hope it doesn't happen, but I think the writing could be on the wall for this.

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32778 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 25519 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 7):
APFA has agreed to a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), clarifying several points contained within the Bridge Agreement the union signed with US Airways last Spring. This MOU further illuminates the financial benefits of a merger to AMR’s creditors. APFA is currently operating under a judicially-enforceable non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with regards to merger discussions, which means that as long as this restriction is in place, we are not able to divulge specific details of the MOU.

Do you have a new job lined up? US employees will probably be the first to go, and be fired in greater number overall. Or do they not discuss the job cuts and have you convinced there won't be any? I guess they can't discuss that under the MOU?



a.
User currently offlineBarryH From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 25282 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 7):
APFA has agreed to a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU),

They, like the pilots, have signed an MOU with themselves. Said MOU also gets them better terms than what's in the existing contract accepted under bankruptcy. Not really a hard agreement to get behind, no? They also signed an agreement with the CEO of a competing airline that wasn’t in a position to provide assurances of anything since US’ roll in AA’s bankruptcy is that of a subordinated debt holder through a desperate purchase of third-party debt to get closer to the process. Signing NDA’s and exchanging confidential financial data is a double-edged sword. People can look great in clothes but not so much when their naked. So there’s been lots of signing going on but none that points to a deal in bankruptcy being a sure thing.


MOU's being signed will only be exciting when the two US pilot union's and AFA sign the same documents the AA unions do. The rest is pure showmanship. I’ve heard nothing official or leaked from the multiple US unions regarding the AA union’s MOU’s which I’m guessing means they’re not ready to pop the champagne corks yet. There could be breakthrough that includes both US and AA's pilots unions or the face-to-face meetings could have driven them in to opposing camps. We here don't know and it's fun to take positions as an arm chair quarterback but nothing publically available (yet) points to a foregone conclusion either way.


User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5050 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 25231 times:

I am not excited to see a merger. I like US the way it is... And I prefer to see AA come out of bk healthy. But, in regards to a merger and the workers of both airlines involved. Doug Parker is very committed to keeping employees employed. I went through the US/HP merger. Most of us at US feared we were going to get screwed. Parker assured us he would do everything possible to avoid cuts in staff. Guess what? He did just that. I have high respect for Parker. He somehow turned US and HP into a profitable and healthy company. While it was a far from perfect merger, it has proven successful.

If AA and US merge, I will be saddened. I love both airlines. It really bums me that we have lost so many great named airlines lately with mergers. No more Northwest. No more Continental. No more America West. No more TWA. Now we migh not have US Airways. Less options for the people to choose. Kinda sucks!



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineBarryH From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 25195 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 13):
Doug Parker is very committed to keeping employees employed.

Doug will do just fine for himself no matter what happens to the combined carrier once the deal's signed. So will the Executive Committee. No one running a billion dollar company got there by being purely benevolent. Similar largesse by AA's management led by Carty sent the union's over the edge. If the merger ends up borked and Doug parachutes out all the AA union's will have done is traded one villain for another and gained a huge mess to clean up in the process. The grass isn't always greener on the other side; sometimes it's just different.

"A few weeks ago I wrote a piece about what Doug Parker stood to gain if US Airways is allowed to buy American Airlines. At the time, I only had access to Doug's public salary info. But with special thanks to a little birdie at headquarters, I've learned a few more juicy details of just why Doug is pushing so hard for this merger. Even if Doug walks out on his job within two years after a merger, he will receive "change in control" payments worth about $18 million.

And it's not just Doug - the cronies all stand to gain from this. The top five executives would rake in about $40 million in gains."

http://firedougparker.org/

P.S. - The site being quoted isn't necessarily the most objective but change of control bonuses are pretty typical so while not verifiable publically the claims seem plausible.


User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5050 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 25155 times:

Interesting information there. But, wouldnt Parker have been in a similar financial position after the US merger? I am not cheerleading Parker. I just respect him because he kept his word. And I can name very very few airline CEOs that have kept their word. Do you think Parker would jump ship and run with the money? I am not so sure he is like that. He seems to really enjoy being where he is.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineBarryH From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 25119 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 15):
I am not so sure he is like that. He seems to really enjoy being where he is.

Running a combined AA/US is very different than a primarily U.S. carrier. The bankruptcy process is what it is. There are certain avenues that are followed and there's always a bunch of pissed off people involved in the process because they've lost a ton and all bankruptcy does is decide how much. Twice now, with DL and AA, Parker's done an end-run around the process and has come across as a petulant child both times. Nothing he did in either case could have changed the process and it doesn't reflect well on his business maturity and instill confidence in him running a combined company. While his DUI after the DL deal officially disappeared is "human," CEO's of billion dollar companies give up the right to do stupid things that mere mortals get to do. That didn't/doesn't reflect well on his credentials either.

Any opinions any of us have of either Parker or Horton are based on hearsay so it’s hard to really assess their mettle. You’d hope that the Board’s of both US and AA aren’t stupid though and that the CEO they’ve chosen to support is competent, qualified, and the best choice to return shareholder value. But if you look at HP Board’s can be pretty stupid themselves sometimes.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11609 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 23871 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 13):
Doug Parker is very committed to keeping employees employed.

Oh please. This merger is going to lead to thousands of layoffs. It's inevitable.

Quoting F9animal (Reply 13):
I have high respect for Parker. He somehow turned US and HP into a profitable and healthy company.

Yes, he has managed to "somehow" turn US and HP into a "profitable" company ... in large part by doing, ironically enough, what AA's unions so hate AA management for having allegedly done in the last decade.

You can't make this stuff up!   


User currently offlineYYZBound From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 23308 times:

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 6):
Even AA's FA union signs its messages "AA+US - Our Future Depends On It," in an attempt to get more people to drink the Kool-Aid. The UCC doesn't drink this beverage.

AA's F/A union, as well as the other two...are part of the UCC actually


User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 23168 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
This merger is going to lead to thousands of layoffs. It's inevitable.

Probably well north of 10,000. From what I understand he will not offer a job to any current member of AA management from Horton on down to front line supervisors, plus there will be redundancies in cities like PHX, SAN, DEN , SJC where US has a larger presence thatn AA and the current USAir staff could easily handle the extra volume making AA employees surplus. Dougs primary obligation will be to protect jobs of USAir employees. So be careful of what you wish for AA peeps.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3472 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 22890 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 11):
Do you have a new job lined up? US employees will probably be the first to go, and be fired in greater number overall. Or do they not discuss the job cuts and have you convinced there won't be any? I guess they can't discuss that under the MOU?

Dude, I know you don't like losing your beloved AA, but don't do this to somebody.

I remember when Eagle was being spun off from AA (never happened) 5 years ago. I was an Eagle employee and was very worried. The flaming statements on here didn't help.

If that peresons job is really in jeopardy (which you certainly don't know about), they don't need you rubbing it in their faces.

And one more point, remember the company that is Bankrupt and the company that is taking over when you make statements like that


User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 22813 times:

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 6):
AA employees know this term because keep hearing it in a variety of venues with the intent that they should believe somehow that the UCC will somehow look past all of the significant disadvantages of a merger led by LCC (and there are many, all to AA's detriment). Even AA's FA union signs its messages "AA+US - Our Future Depends On It," in an attempt to get more people to drink the Kool-Aid. The UCC doesn't drink this beverage. Their job is to look out for themselves and it's become increasingly clear that having AA emerge from BK in tact will create more value to the unsecured creditors, even in the short term.

Since you know M&A and not airlines, you sure are coming across like you know exactly what should happen - no merger. I believe they are going to merge, regardless of the downsides and upsides of either option, because my 25 years of airline experience regarding scope and scale suggest that the pain of merging is better in the long term for competing with UA and DL and in the global airline industry. But, the UCC will decide, and their are nine voting groups .... just like the Supreme Court ... 5 votes wins ....


User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 409 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 22761 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):

Yes, he has managed to "somehow" turn US and HP into a "profitable" company ... in large part by doing, ironically enough, what AA's unions so hate AA management for having allegedly done in the last decade.

Yep. Horton has been president for two years and CEO for only 13 months. In reality, Horton has never been given a chance to do things his own way. I'm no great defender of TH, but someone's going to be in charge - that's the reality of how human institutions work. I'd give DP a 6 month honeymoon before that sour taste puckers up again ...

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 19):
Probably well north of 10,000. From what I understand he will not offer a job to any current member of AA management from Horton on down to front line supervisors, plus there will be redundancies in cities like PHX, SAN, DEN , SJC where US has a larger presence thatn AA and the current USAir staff could easily handle the extra volume making AA employees surplus. Dougs primary obligation will be to protect jobs of USAir employees. So be careful of what you wish for AA peeps.

Agreed on the 10,000+ number, and that AA could lose many higher level management positions (level 6ish and above).
From purely a practical standpoint, it won't be that easy to clean out middle management, because then they'd have to train new people to take over most of those jobs. Given the size differences between AA and US, even if DP is in charge and he brings over every single member of US' management - there won't be enough heads to run the show ...



Next
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3298 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 22729 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 20):

He's not being malicious, but if I understand him correctly, he (like many others, including myself) is growing very tired of the willful ignorance of so many front line employees regarding this situation. DP has done a great job of BSing to the applicable unions, and they are the only ones that can't seem to see right through it.

  

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 22685 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 13):
we have lost so many great named airlines

No mention of PanAm? But you include America West in the great name category???

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
Oh please. This merger is going to lead to thousands of layoffs. It's inevitable.

That's what was said to the NW people...what happened??



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
25 Post contains images YYZBound : According to A.netters this merger sounds like the apocalypse. The Mayan calendar said the same thing As an AA FA..who did NOT drink the kook aid.....
26 dcann40 : My opinion is simply that there is a chance it will happen - and a chance it won't but that it's becoming somewhat unlikely that a merger will happen
27 allegiantflyer : All layoffs would have to be on the US side of the merger,AA employees cant because of the lawsuit from what happened with TWA
28 ripcordd : Layoffs will be done by doh.
29 dcann40 : Please explain and do you mean this impacts every last AA employee?
30 BD338 : Is that on top of the AA layoffs in BK? How many did UA/CO and DL/NW layoff after their mergers? I don't recall that level.
31 ripcordd : Yes they figure they would have around 10k to many with the 2 companies merged. But I'm sure a lot will leave with a nice buyout
32 B727FA : Huh? That statement shows a serious lack of knowledge regarding labor law.
33 ripcordd : Its half right there is a new law because of the buyout of TWA by AA but it now goes by DOH
34 JoePatroni707 : That statement makes no sense at all. It would go strictly by seniority for front line employees. For managers (if any from AA survive which I doubt
35 milemaster : There sure is a lot of projection going on with this discussion. My .02 on the matter is that this merger has an extreme probability of happening in 2
36 superjeff : Don't forget the obvious here. The acquirer WOULD BE US, not AA. US may keep the AA name, but management would be US - You can argue about which airl
37 USAirways757 : Sorry for going off topic here, but where would US's PIT maintenance programs go? Would they stay in PIT or go to Tulsa?
38 Drmlnr1 : AA IMO will emerge as a stand alone carrier because they have become stronger. And with the delivery of their first 77W and soon the arrival of their
39 pnwtraveler : That is true in that a number of US Legacies have now gone. Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff and others. Without these consolidations though in the US Market
40 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Funny story. I was on US245 (PHX-YYC) yesterday morning. One of the FAs was in the aisle hawking the USAir bank card. We engaged in conversation (for
41 WALmsp : I have no personal stake in either carrier and unlike many of the posters on this forum, I do not know the intricacies and potential synergies of eac
42 AA767400 : I read that the other day. Question is, how does AFA/IAM play into this? What's their view on the merger? How do the US FAs feel about this merger? A
43 HPRamper : The Kool-Aid comes in more than one flavor. Yet the US unions don't have the same animosity toward Parker. I think that's because 1. Most of the West
44 Post contains images PRAirbus : Wish AA would tie up w/B6 and avoid the hassle of US/AA dramatic merger! .
45 ckfred : It all depends on who is running AA/AMR, when the company exits Chapter 11. It seems very likely that US will not merge with AA, before it exits bank
46 AAIL86 : Well it probably won't all be "layoffs". When someone in management loses their job, its strictly a termination with no recall rights. Also, many job
47 dcann40 : I cannot see how anyone viewed AA's trip to bankruptcy court as even being remotely close to the possibility of liquidation. AA was unique among airl
48 Post contains images Maverick623 : Doug Parker is committed to making money for himself and for the company (in that order). If you think you're more than an item on the balance sheet,
49 JoePatroni707 : and depending on the level of manager could be as little as two weeks pay total severance
50 kgaiflyer : It happens on A.net. A correlate would be the financiers who proudly state they were the first to see a stock rise or fall. Another example -- rememb
51 kgaiflyer : I think you're right.
52 BarryH : You can caps lock all you like but at the end of the day AA is the stronger of the two entities. And as time elapses US, because of reasons mentioned
53 Post contains images YYZBound : Got a question to put out there that several of us were pondering...and I'll preface this by saying I am neither a businessman nor a lawyer, so go eas
54 BarryH : In theory, there would be a newly written CBA covering all the combined entities pilots. The fun starts with expectations of getting "more" both in d
55 TVNWZ : Post of the thread. This is absolute truth.
56 dcann40 : What I don't understand is why the unions want their members to believe US is stronger? Except for possibly wishing to make it personal ("we hate Hor
57 flyby519 : Im thinking it is a combination of emotional "we hate Horton" sentiments, as well as the promises made by Doug Parker for extravagant work rules/pay
58 JoePatroni707 : My feeling is that AA will emerge on its own. IF there is a merger AA will stand and wait till US is on the brink, then go in for the kill. Just like
59 B727FA : Easy on the FA, she was making conversation and a bit of a joke about the situation. I say it was a pretty clever line, "get ours now (like a souveni
60 etops1 : That's where your soo entirely wrong buddy . But it's ok . It's your opinion .
61 LAXdude1023 : For the record, I am for this merger but I have concerns and have named them before (the frequent flyer program and the labor integration). Should tho
62 LAXdude1023 : To be frank etops, you have no idea. None of us do, so you might as well stop pretending like you know something the rest of us dont.
63 Post contains links deltaffindfw : USAPA has unanimously voted in favor of the MOU. Interesting that US Airways and AA made a joint statement - the companies - not the unions! http://av
64 rj777 : Looks like the writing is on the wall. But let's not forget about the DOJ.
65 par13del : You are talking about labour and their "issues" to protect their turf, those making the decisions on mergers are looking at financial numbers, the co
66 JoeCanuck : If I understand it, none of this has been voted on by the various union members...just the leadership. My guess is that the various MOU's also don't
67 etops1 : The only group that has to vote on it is USAPA .
68 dcann40 : It is prudent in such transactions to get the unions to agree to terms prior to any deal and LCC is an excellent example of not doing this and seeing
69 dcann40 : Interestingly enough, it was technically not a joint statement in terms of how the news release was issued. The statement was issued by US alone. The
70 Post contains links BarryH : Here's the exact statement from the press release. "American Airlines and US Airways, with participation of committee counsel for the Unsecured Credi
71 dcann40 : That's the text of the statement. As i stated in my earlier post, the release was issued by US and only US was the contact. Typically, a joint statem
72 etops1 : So are you saying that this release is not legit and its a lie ?
73 Post contains links deltaffindfw : This IS a press release - on PR newswire. However, as stated, it is only from US, but it for some reason includes AA. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jo
74 LAXdude1023 : Read the statement below:
75 dcann40 : I think my statement was in fairly clear English and stands on its own, to wit that the release itself was in fact issued only by US and not issued j
76 Wingtips56 : I'm no expert, but I'm inclined to agree with Joe Patroni. AA doesn't need a white knight or cash infusion to exit Reorganization , as they have a few
77 commavia : It is good to see the process moving along. I look forward to this whole soap opera being concluded one way or another, and I'm hopeful that if a merg
78 Maverick623 : They'll be waiting for 10+ years, and that's assuming US starts going downhill tomorrow. Huh? I know that pilots get a hard-on thinking that they run
79 flyguy89 : That is exactly the point of contention. US has absolutely been able to thrive with below-industry costs with the divided labor groups, but that will
80 AASTEW : AA + US....two airlines that have had very bad mergers....cant wait to see how this mess unfolds! AASTEW
81 Post contains images PHX787 : Guys, this is my point here. This will not happen. I mean, read the history of US Airways and America West Group. It was the perfect storm for US and
82 aaexecplat : As someone who has posted countless press releases on PR Newswire, allow me to simply state that press releases on PR newswire are not corporate stat
83 dcann40 : This seems to be what AA's plan post BK is (although I would include AA as a legacy carrier). I think the first issue you mention is key but it has b
84 etops1 : Letter from Tom Horton to AA employees : I don't know if this has been posted already . If it has , my apologies .. Dear American Team: As we start a
85 Post contains links deltaffindfw : I guess US Airways press release page posts fake press releases too... http://www.usairways.com/en-US/aboutus/pressroom/pressreleases.html[Edited 201
86 dcann40 : No one implied that this release didn't emanate from US.
87 AAplat4life : Both pilot groups appear to back the merger. AMR creditors said that they would prefer an all stock merger proposal. No recent anti-merger remarks fro
88 BarryH : The press release is authentic; the phone number listed is for US media relations. What's being questioned is why US media relations put out a press
89 BarryH : There are multiple camps working on different approaches. The items you mentioned are true but there's a lot going on with others jockeying for posit
90 PHX787 : they are a legacy indeed but are lagging behind the others.
91 BA0197 : I for one hope that we come out of BK alone. AA has too much going in its favour right now, the new aircraft, the fantastic JBA with BA, the oneworld
92 cloudboy : So does this mean than any of the other potential merger partners have been dismissed? In some ways reading what Horton said against what US released
93 aaexecplat : Nobody said the release was fake. What I wanted to highlight though is that this was submitted through PRNewswire instead of through the regular medi
94 klkla : This merger has a 99% chance of happening whether it occurs in BK or not. It's going to happen! At the end of the day this merger will simply be abou
95 par13del : Well his use of American means that AA will emerge from Chpt.11 as a stand alone entity, it also means that if merged in Chpt. 11 the merged carrier
96 JoePatroni707 : Not if AA emerges from CH11 as a stand alone carrier Really?? America West one of the worst airlines in history? USAir- Bottom feeder airline that ha
97 BarryH : The best predictor of the future is the past. If you take the favorable terms AA extracted out of bankruptcy and apply it to their last two years of
98 cloudboy : If AA were to emerge from bankruptcy first, then merge, would that make it more difficult for them to get a beneficial contract with the unions at US?
99 Post contains images PHX787 : too much hype over nothing.
100 Post contains images par13del : Which could set up a future with a twist to match DL/NW. If AA emerges from Chpt.11 as a stand alone entity and US stocks take a hit, US management c
101 Pu : One thing to consider is that if AA emerges stand alone and/or Parker's merger plan is rebuffed, what happens with US is then not strictly limited to
102 avek00 : A merger of AA and US will likely not accomplish either goal in a manner that any objective observer would define as "successful". This proposed merg
103 BarryH : I'm curious what people think the synergies are? Neither UA/CO or DL/NW dramatically reduced labor simply because flying "X" number of planes to "X'
104 dcann40 : I can think of one that UA cited, IP. This was UA´s (brilliant?) reason for going to SHARES, which resulted in myriad problems. There would also (ev
105 rj777 : One of the big questions is gonna be which Alliance the combined entity will belong to: Oneworld or Star? When US Airways was pondering the merger wit
106 etops1 : USAirways was never in SkyTeam . US became a Star Alliance member in 2004 . It has been already said that US will switch over to ONEWORLD once they m
107 klkla : There will be even more pressure after BK. Right now the pressure is coming form the creditor's committee. After that it will be coming from Wall Str
108 par13del : Hence the reason why US also has to take another trip into Chpt.11 to reduce its cost to match that of AA. US failed when they did not find and or ma
109 BarryH : You can raise prices, decrease capacity, and still lose money if those actions cause your load factors to drop because leisure customers don't give a
110 Post contains images par13del : It has always been thus, look at routes where a legacy carrier has almost total exclusivity. Yes, but that takes time, and if one via political influ
111 B727FA : Well, not really on the DL side.
112 par13del : True CommAir is gone, Pinnacle is being resurected and DL mainline will be flying more 717's. Hopefully the routes they choose to deploy the 717 flyi
113 BarryH : Once the first domino falls and the merger's official time is not on AA/US's side. They'll be vulnerable because they’re going to be so inwardly fo
114 crj900lr : This all depands on the station they are working at and what the staffing requirements are. Basically neither companies employees are safe when it co
115 etops1 : I have 16 yrs as a FA with US . I think I will be ok with keeping my job ..
116 aacun : Yo do realize that is about the most junior seniority at AA. Except for the new hires that are coming in this month. Our most junior flight attendant
117 stlgph : if AA goes alone, i wouldn't be surprised to see a major investment from Emirates.
118 flyby519 : That would absolutely blow me away, but I hope it happens. Better yet, a joint bid between EK and IAG[Edited 2013-01-07 07:40:05]
119 mattya9 : Assuming this merger happens, I've been curious how the pilot groups will merge, especially since the US and HP groups still have yet to do so. Will t
120 dcann40 : In the back of my mind, I suspect those differences will become inconsequential given that the pilots from East and West will be dwarfed in size by t
121 mattya9 : So would it be safe to say the US/HP pilots will pushed to the back of the line since the AA pilot group is larger and (I'm guessing) has more senior
122 dcann40 : If I understand this correctly, everyone (east, west, AA) gets one vote each. So a vote is held to determine representation of the pilots and presuma
123 mattya9 : Assuming that's correct (all become part of APA), would that mean US and HP pilots are knocked to the bottom of the barrel in favor of the AA pilots
124 HPRamper : Seniority has nothing to do with it. And it would be AA + PMHP which would instantly dwarf USAPA and nullify their little roadblock.
125 mattya9 : What is PMHP? And if what dncann40 says is correct wouldn't all the pilots become part of APA after a vote? OPS 5
126 jlbmedia : Wouldn't the US-East have the most seniority as that airline has been around (the older east Piots at least) as long as the older piolts that fly for
127 dcann40 : post-merger HP
128 Post contains links AA767400 : http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/...AAs-Merger-Decision-185958422.html Another delay? Now they're saying end of January.
129 YYZBound : I wonder if there's something going on with Emirates that is the reason for the delay
130 etops1 : [quote=YYZBound,reply=131][/ Why do you think that ?
131 stlgph : It makes sense. Emirates wants to expand in the U.S. and wants more U.S. gateways and feed. They're wanting and willing to shell out the cash for 30
132 etops1 : So why would that delay a merger announcement ? AA is not trying to merge with Emirates .
133 LAXdude1023 : A merger or consideration of a merger is not something you run into without all of your facts in front of you. Only fools would do that. You have to
134 dcann40 : How exactly do you know this?
135 dcann40 : How exactly do you know this?
136 stlgph : I never said anything about American *merging* with Emirates.
137 dcann40 : No but one never knows what could happen next. Stranger deals have taken place.
138 Post contains images etops1 : I swear you guys are something else .. Now your think that AMR has the possibility of merging with EK?
139 PRAirbus : Prediction; AA will NOT announce any merger decision tomorrow (BOD meeting); AA will emerge from Chapter 11 "solo"! Wishful thinking: "AA merges w/B6
140 YYZBound : Nobody here believes that. Besides, it's impossible.
141 etops1 : Prediction : AMR will not announce any merger decision tomorrow . They will announce it however before the end of the month and not exit BK stand alo
142 dcann40 : Every day that passes, the merger between US and AA in BK becomes less likely. If the merger were to happen, I doubt however that a B6 codeshare woul
143 Post contains links stlgph : Certainly an interesting turn of events. This is definitely a catalyst in why the decision is being postponed until the end of the month. http://www.b
144 rj777 : I don't see how, especially when the article (dated today) makes no mention of a postponement. In fact, the article makes it sound like the matter WI
145 dcann40 : That's quoting what someone said in December, however. And the shareholder value issue seems to have first come up afterwards.
146 gigneil : It's illegal. That's how. NS
147 silentbob : Not if AMR is in control.
148 JBirdAV8r : Catalyst, intentional logjam...all the same, right?
149 gigneil : I haven't seen your name in a bit. At any rate... you really think that'd work that way? NS
150 Post contains images BlueShamu330s : Ding ding ! I'm expecting a flurry of panicked canvassing from the US camp, akin to the days leading up to an election. Emirates is a blind curve bal
151 BNE : Qantas ends up with a codeshare Emirates and then Emirates ends up with a stake of American Airlines. US Airways wants to merge with AA but with Emira
152 JoePatroni707 : AA does not have the money to buy Emirates. Foreign ownership laws would prohibit EK from buying more than 25% of AA. AA just signed a code-shareing
153 avek00 : Save a.net's remaining credibility and can the EK/AA talk for now. For a multitude of reasons, that won't happen anytime soon no matter what Tim Clark
154 AAplat4life : It remains to be seen whether any residual shareholder value will have much of an impact. Many of the shares have been purchased by creditors and the
155 SeeTheWorld : While consumers may pay a bit more because of a merger (and let's remember how fares have not come close to keeping up with the rate of inflation), c
156 stlgph : A bankrupt company still finding shareholder value entirely changes things. Good. Someone is on to something, however, Emirates isnt after anything t
157 dcann40 : Some codeshare agreements cover just a few flights, that was really my point. This is pretty all-encompassing.
158 LAXdude1023 : No, it really isnt. If they announce a full network codesharing, then Ill agree. This on the other hand is very basic. Thats why Ive said if they are
159 YYZBound : I don't see any details about what EK is offering to compare....
160 JoePatroni707 : I never said they were. Another poster hinted at the possibiliy of an EK/AA merger. Given AA's new relationship with QR I doubt this will happen unle
161 avek00 : Emirates really isn't in the AA picture at all right now. But hey, if AMR wants to gum up an otherwise feasible standalone path out of bankruptcy thr
162 stlgph : Incorrect. Also incorrect. Qatar Airways is nothing more than a OneWorld alliance code share agreement. Emirates = serious cash infusion.
163 Post contains links STT757 : Exactly, I have one thing to say "Dubai Ports World". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Ports_World_controversy
164 LAXdude1023 : No way on earth you could possibly know that. None of us do. They would be allowed to invest up to a certain point much like LH investing in B6 or VS
165 stlgph : Several of us here on the forum know a few things that are going on. Some are more quiet than others. Lufthansa is the largest shareholder in jetBlue
166 LAXdude1023 : It covers all AA domestic routes? Im pretty sure it doesnt say that anywhere in the article.
167 DLT123 : I think so, yes, at least insofar as a QR passenger can connect to one.[Edited 2013-01-09 09:10:27]
168 Maverick623 : That's not the same as a codeshare agreement. An interline agreement (which is what they already had) allows either airline to sell a routing that us
169 rj777 : So I'm assuming nothing came out of the board meeting today?
170 lucky777 : At least nothing that's been reported to the newswires. If nothing else, this delay more than likely signals that the UCC isn't sold on the LCC/AA me
171 gigneil : They found it on the tails of merger news. NS
172 BarryH : Dcann40 posted something fascinating but most everyone glossed over it discussing QR. The appreciation in bankruptcy AA's experienced screws up Parke
173 silentbob : Thanks for noticing, I've been busy and far too often it's just "more of the same" around here. As for AMR buying Emirates; No, I don't see that happ
174 gigneil : I use it to take my aggression out on people. So, here's the thing. The appreciation in value is primarily due to the merger ruckus. No merger, no va
175 flyguy89 : Not at all, it's AA's continued impressive improvement in performance while in bankruptcy that has given credence to the original assertion that AA i
176 klkla : Yes they did. How convenient LOL.
177 AAplat4life : Parker knows a heck of a lot more than we do, as do the other players involved in the bankruptcy case. We have to assume that Parker came in with a f
178 stlgph : That's incorrect. See reply 180 and then on top of that a maturing of bonds//convertible notes @ the 6.25% rate due in October 2014 has added value t
179 silentbob : Reminds me of one of my favorite movie lines: "That's what the internet is for, slandering other people anonymously." I can't see how AA would be bet
180 ckfred : I would argue that the AA/TW merger would have worked well, but for 9/11. ORD was a mess, and having a second Midwest hub 300 miles away made a lot o
181 dcann40 : It made a lot of sense at the time - but the people who planned the merger didn't have a crystal ball in terms of what was yet to come.
182 jfklganyc : Actually US and HP has been quite successful. Company is profitable. Nationwide network. Good hubs. Pilots have to get it together. Frankly, I dont th
183 BarryH : He didn't when he made the totally blind and cowboy-esque sweetheart offers to the AA unions to curry their favor when he wasn't getting the attentio
184 HPRamper : And Parker would have been publicly crucified if he'd ignored the unions as he did with his DL proposal. Appealing to the unions was an excellent mov
185 LAXdude1023 : Actually, you have it backward. That shows he knows exactly what he was doing. He learned his lesson from the failed takeover of Delta. He realized t
186 flyguy89 : There are two primary reasons why they would: 1) US' value will likely be going down with their labor costs set to rise in the near-future making the
187 bobloblaw : I will go out on a limb and say AA will reject a merger with US. The purpose of a merger is mostly higher unit revenue. Reduce ASMs and drive higher y
188 JoePatroni707 : You make it sound as though the whole merger would have been more successful if AA had gotten RR powered 757s. The 757s had nothing to do with the fai
189 BarryH : A couple things: 1) During exclusivity, and early in the process, doing an end-run around the stakeholders and court by seducing a company in bankrup
190 DLT123 : Apparently he learned quite a bit after the first merger.
191 Post contains links LAXdude1023 : Looks like your limb may be correct. AA just asked for another extension and was joined by the UCC in doing so. That makes a merger inside BK less li
192 par13del : From the article The airline has made "significant progress" in its restructuring effort but still needs more time, the company said. Does make you w
193 atrude777 : I don't disagree, but how does one come to that conclusion? I could look at it from this angle, and say AA needs more time to look at the options wit
194 bobloblaw : They would get a further extension. United was in BK for like 2-3 years.
195 Post contains links atrude777 : No..it is exactly why UA being in BK for 2-3 years is why the new laws have changed. That is why Delta and NWA filed their BK during the time they di
196 TSS : Interesting. Are you suggesting that AA should have kept the ex-TWA 757s and used them as DL has as a dedicated TATL subfleet?
197 JoePatroni707 : exactly.... the only reason AA lost those airplanes was Bob Redding tried to low-ball the leasing companies on what AA was willing to pay, and they g
198 commavia : Absolutely not. Those planes had different engines, were leased, and were completely superfluous. What AA should have done was take some of their own
199 JoePatroni707 : Drinking the coolaid I see... AA has had and will have same type aircraft with different engines before. Look at the 777 fleet, and the planned A320
200 commavia : No Kool Aid, just reality. There was absolutely no reason to keep a tiny subfleet of non-standard aircraft when AA already had its own enormous fleet
201 par13del : AA is in chpt.11 now and are trimming excess a/c and property leases as fast as they can, US is not in chpt.11 so their cost cannot be trimmed if the
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