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American Eagle Pilot Arrested In MSP For Alcohol Intoxication  
User currently offlinewingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 636 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12802 times:

It appears an AA captain was arrested in MSP airport this am on suspicion of being over alcohol limit. He failed an initial test by police and was taken to a hospital for further testing.

Www.startribune.com

Wingnut


Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWA330nut From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 115 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 12323 times:

Here is a more detailed link - which I am sure you were referring to.

http://www.startribune.com/local/185653732.html


User currently offlinewingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 12307 times:

Yes, that is what I was trying for. Thanks.

Wingnut



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7494 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 12262 times:

Just one note / correction.

According to the article it was an American Eagle pilot, not American Airlines.


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3057 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 12071 times:

They initially got almost everything wrong in their haste to publish something,

First they said AA enroute Dallas and there is a mainline flight that was cancelled, AA1789.

But looks like this was the flight in question,

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/E...0/history/20130104/1210Z/KMSP/KLGA

so not cancelled at all, but about 3 hours late.



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlinetp1040 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11512 times:

Nothing like getting busted at 6:30 in the morning to being drunk. Must have been still drunk from the night before.

IDIOT!


User currently offlinePassedV1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11429 times:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...irlines-Minneapolis-185665312.html

Article names pilot.


User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1550 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11290 times:

I saw the whole event unfold up by gate E15. Looks like their will be another Captain vacancy in the next bid to go out at Eagle. Sad way to ruin your career, yet alcoholism can get the best of everyone!


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2256 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11232 times:

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 7):
Sad way to ruin your career, yet alcoholism can get the best of everyone!

Not necessarily. Provided he never showed "intent to fly," which means allowing the aircraft to move, he can seek treatment and maintain his license. It's a long road, for sure, but depending on the circumstances it is not an automatic loss of license or employment.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlinepeterjohns From Germany, joined Jan 2009, 201 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11040 times:

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 8):
Provided he never showed "intent to fly," which means allowing the aircraft to move,

Are you sure about that?
If he showed up at the Gate with a uniform on- I would very well call that "intent to fly"- I am however no lawyer.

I don´t intend to throw the book at him, but to call in sick at the Hotel would have been the right thing to do if you overcooked it the night before.


User currently offlinebioyuki From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10886 times:

How is the legal limit for a pilot 0.04%? Considering this is commercial aviation where the pilot's livelihood is directly responsible for the lives of hundreds of passengers, shouldn't the limit be 0.00%?


Next flight: UA 726/84 SFO-EWR-TLV
User currently offlinebioyuki From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10774 times:

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 8):
Not necessarily. Provided he never showed "intent to fly," which means allowing the aircraft to move, he can seek treatment and maintain his license. It's a long road, for sure, but depending on the circumstances it is not an automatic loss of license or employment.

Other articles stated that he was onboard, going through preflight checks when he was arrested so there is clearly intent to fly.



Next flight: UA 726/84 SFO-EWR-TLV
User currently offlinebtfarrwm From United States of America, joined May 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10729 times:

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 10):
How is the legal limit for a pilot 0.04%?
Quoting bioyuki (Reply 10):
How is the legal limit for a pilot 0.04%?

Because the body makes metabolic byproducts that breath and blood tests cannot distinguish from alcohol. 0.04% is the amount that cannot be from something other than alcohol ingestion.


User currently offlineiliam From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10619 times:

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 11):
How is the legal limit for a pilot 0.04%?
Quoting btfarrwm (Reply 12):
Because the body makes metabolic byproducts that breath and blood tests cannot distinguish from alcohol. 0.04% is the amount that cannot be from something other than alcohol ingestion.

You may also not operate a civil aircraft within 8 hours after consumption, as per FAR 91.17


User currently offlineBellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10217 times:

bioyuki

...shouldn't the limit be 0.00%?...

I agree with you that pilots should be completely free from imbibed alcohol before flight, however the problem with having 0.00% as a limit is that there are several valid reasons why a pilot might have a minute or trace level of alcohol in his or her blood, without ever having consumed a drop of alcohol.

One such reason, among several, is that the human body manufactures trace levels of alcohol naturally, with the level of trace alcohol varying from person to person.

Any jurisdiction that seeks to use zero as a limit for pilots is setting itself up for a lot of contested legal cases, with various valid and plausible reasons argued as to why the defendant had a trace level of alcohol in their blood, as well as a lot of detailed argument about the validity, tolerances and calibration of laboratory test equipment.

I would suggest that the UK/JAA/EU limit of 0.02% is actually a far more sensible legal limit, as, being so low, it is effectively a zero limit, but, being set well above the level at which the various defences regarding trace levels of alcohol could succeed, it catches those who have imbibed alcohol unwisely without criminalising those who are blameless.

It saves a lot of court time, in the UK at least, as most cases plead guilty, and perhaps, most importantly, allows the wider pilot fraternity to have confidence that any pilot convicted must have imbibed some alcohol unwisely, rather than just being the victim of circumstances beyond their control.

I hope the blood test on the pilot involved in this present case comes back negative, but if it does not, and he is shown to have been drinking alcohol unwisely, then I have no sympathy.

Best Regards

Bellerophon


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9466 times:

Quoting Bellerophon (Reply 14):
I agree with you that pilots should be completely free from imbibed alcohol before flight, however the problem with having 0.00% as a limit is that there are several valid reasons why a pilot might have a minute or trace level of alcohol in his or her blood, without ever having consumed a drop of alcohol.

I, for instance, have used mouthwash containing alcohol in the past. It's not going to show up in a blood test, obviously, but I've wondered whether a breath test would notice it.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1550 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9452 times:

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 8):
Not necessarily. Provided he never showed "intent to fly," which means allowing the aircraft to move, he can seek treatment and maintain his license. It's a long road, for sure, but depending on the circumstances it is not an automatic loss of license or employment.

Yeah, it's one thing to be walking around the terminal in a uniform slightly drunk, but a totally different ball game to be sitting in the flight deck, doing departure checks drunk. If this had happened many years ago, I would maybe say he still has a chance that the union would fight for him to remain on property. However, in today's liability driven age, their is no way Eagle would take the risk of allowing him to return to duties!

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 10):
How is the legal limit for a pilot 0.04%? Considering this is commercial aviation where the pilot's livelihood is directly responsible for the lives of hundreds of passengers, shouldn't the limit be 0.00%?

Believe it or not, mouthwash can show up on a breathalyser test, which would cause problems if their was a 0.00% tolerance.



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7494 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9266 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
I, for instance, have used mouthwash containing alcohol in the past. It's not going to show up in a blood test, obviously, but I've wondered whether a breath test would notice it.

Yes it will.

Also almost any aftershave/ men's fragrance will also show up, and most women's perfumes will cause the air around the suspect's head to be strong enough to set off a breath test.

Another possibility is that the pilot might have consumed alcohol and stopped before the 8 hour time limit, however, for various medical reasons his body might not have metabolized the alcohol consumed down to a low enough level to be below the threshold.

It does happen with some people, and they never realize until they are 'caught' what is occurring with their body.

The reason the pilot was taken in for a blood test is not just for prosecution, but to also provide him with protection if the breathalyzer gave a false reading.

The key is breath test are not accurate for exact levels of alcohol, only providing a general indication of alcohol. A blood test is the most accurate.


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1521 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9005 times:

Our limit is 12 hours at Eagle, not 8 as per 91.17; just an FYI.

User currently onlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1070 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8890 times:

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 18):
Our limit is 12 hours at Eagle, not 8 as per 91.17; just an FYI.

Yes, most Part 121 carriers today are 12 hours in the flight operations manual.

For many years, Northwest prohibited alcohol use on ANY layover, regardless of duration between flights. Most violated rule in the company; in fact it led to the dismissal of a captain that a few years before successfully ditched his flaming DC-7C
at night, in a stormy open ocean with the only fatality a heart attack victim in one of the life rafts. From hero to zero!
He sued NWA and won, gaining a large settlement.


User currently offlinekl692 From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 675 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8673 times:

Maybe he watch Flight By Denzel Washington one two many times.

Great Job by the TSA officeers for spotting it.



A310, A330,A346,B73H, B747,B772,B77W,CRJ
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3594 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8342 times:

Quoting Bellerophon (Reply 14):
I would suggest that the UK/JAA/EU limit of 0.02% is actually a far more sensible legal limit, as, being so low, it is effectively a zero limit, but, being set well above the level at which the various defences regarding trace levels of alcohol could succeed

Two teaspoonfuls of cough medicine will put you at or over 0.02%.

0.04% makes more sense. One teaspoon is 1/3 of a tablespoon, and when I've had a bad cough I've taken a tablespoonful of cough medicine a bunch of times. That would put me at about 0.03% for a short time. I could see someone with a really bad cold (but not bad enough not to fly) taking two tablespoonfuls before flying.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8253 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):
Another possibility is that the pilot might have consumed alcohol and stopped before the 8 hour time limit, however, for various medical reasons his body might not have metabolized the alcohol consumed down to a low enough level to be below the threshold.

I'd tend to believe that if that were the case (and I certainly believe it could happen), the pilot wouldn't be displaying any outward signs of alcohol, and thus would only get caught by a random blood test, not by a passenger sensing something amiss and reporting it to police as was the case here. If you are showing visible signs of intoxication (or if someone smells alcohol on your breath), that's a sign that it's not just an issue of your metabolism moving too slowly.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8199 times:
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Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
but I've wondered whether a breath test would notice it.

A good breathalyzer won´t. Those detect the alcohol excreted by your body through your lungs ie. by your respiration. Thus, mouth wash won´t set them off if you don´t drink it of course. Cheapo breathalyzers may, though. And there´s a variety of those contraptions in the market.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 21):
0.04% makes more sense. One teaspoon is 1/3 of a tablespoon, and when I've had a bad cough I've taken a tablespoonful of cough medicine a bunch of times.

Don´t they have codeine too? A popular cocktail among the junkies here was cough syrup with vodka.



MGGS
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3810 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8179 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 22):
not by a passenger sensing something amiss and reporting it to police as was the case here.

ABC World News Tonight reported that it was a TSA agent who turned in the pilot. CNN is reporting the same thing.

Pilot arrested after security agent smells alcohol
By Aaron Cooper, CNN


Quote:
A pilot in Minnesota who was preparing to fly a commercial jet halfway across the country was arrested after a security agent smelled alcohol on him and he failed a preliminary breath test, airport police said Friday.

[SNIP]

Officers and a Transportation Security Administration agent "detected the odor of a consumed alcohol beverage as they passed by Kristiansen waiting to enter the elevator," according to a Minneapolis/St. Paul International Airport Police Department report.

LoneStarMike


25 Maverick623 : There was an entire NW flight crew (Captain, FO, and FE) back in 1990 that were caught being drunk... after the flight. While the FO and FE never fle
26 sweair : Truck and bus drivers have an alcohol lock in Sweden, if they fail this the engine wont start. Maybe a mandatory breath test for pilots when they arri
27 skywaymanaz : Good idea perhaps in theory but I'm not sure it holds up for commercial aviation. If it isn't part of the aircraft then that's a huge expense in trai
28 737tanker : The machines only have an accuracy to within 0.02%. So you can be 0.0% and the machine may show 0.2% I had heard that the F/E did return to flying bu
29 lenbrazil : Interesting coincidence: his name is of Danish/Norwegian/Icelandic origin. Most decendants of imigrants I know/know of have given names typical of the
30 maxpower1954 : The F/E finished his sentence, went through the process of earning his tickets back, flew cargo airplanes and is now a pilot with American, which rai
31 maxpower1954 : No, under ICAO rules all U.S. pilot certificates now say "ENGLISH PROFICIENT" including this Florida born U.S. citizen
32 GRZ-AIR : When will the TSA finally start reporting fatigued pilots? That would really improve passenger safety. Well we all know many (but not all) TSA guys an
33 Post contains links lenbrazil : OK I stand corrected, His certificate was issued 11/2/2010 did the rule apply back then? And unless there were two men named Kolbjorn Jarle Kristians
34 tu204 : In Russia you go through a quick medical medical examination prior to flying (blood pressure measurement, heart rate). Takes about two minutes. No bre
35 bond007 : Actually the FAA limit for performing safety-related duties is 0.02% not 0.04%. The limit of 0.04% is used for violation actions against the employee
36 jfklganyc : You would have a lot of flights being cancelled. Like every Eagle flight crew that had a min rest 8 hour layover
37 Cubsrule : Just MHO, but it seems to me that fatigue shows itself much differently from person to person. I know some guys (and gals) who wake up slowly and see
38 Mir : I had heard it was a passenger, but I might have read something incorrect - the point is that he was intoxicated enough that someone else noticed, an
39 KaiGywer : Only for about 15 minutes after you take it. Hence, we make sure an arrestee has nothing in his/her mouth for 20 minutes prior to taking the intoxily
40 PassedV1 : I would guess Eagle pilots make $20/drug test, which is probably about the same amount of time, times 15 days a month=300/month times 12 months=$3600
41 B727FA : Many airlines call that rule from time of "effect" of consumption...ie, 8 hrs after you're no longer "feeling" the effect...12 hrs is a safe guide fo
42 GRZ-AIR : Fatigue (at least in human factors/aviation) is not about having had a one time good or bad sleep...it is about the effects of long time recurring sl
43 maxpower1954 : The rule has been in effect for at least three years. No license had the endorsement prior to that, regardless of background. Every U.S. certificate
44 usdcaguy : I completely agree with this, and I would add that one night of bad or insufficient sleep is nothing compared to a number of nights of insufficient s
45 GRZ-AIR : Which is, in most cases, not an easy thing to decide: Imagine this: You are abroad somewhere on a layover in a hotel room... you did a lot of night f
46 Cubsrule : Certainly not, but you haven't addressed the substance of my post. Doesn't fatigue show itself a lot differently person to person? There's no blood t
47 Post contains images lightsaber : Wow... enough that TSA could smell the drink. This doesn't sound like a case of oops, but rather abuse. 24 hours is a lot of time. A man, on average,
48 AR385 : Sorry, but that doesn´t really exist. Please have two glasses of wine and then go ahead and do some cognitive tests. You´ll be surprised. What may
49 Post contains images seabosdca : It takes at least two full drinks to get a man of my size above 0.04%. I can't usually tell a difference in my own capability after one drink, but I
50 B727FA : Rather pretentious statement, my friend! Plenty of excellent (in skill and professionalism) crew members use the 12 and 8 hr rule with no issues. Adh
51 PassedV1 : English proficiency is "tested" during every checkride as it is part of the checkride. The examiner makes a determination if the applicant is "englis
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