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Next To BOS: China Or Middle East?  
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6086 times:

There have been an awful lot of rumors circulating about the next new international service at Boston's Logan Airport. Some people say 'China' while others say 'Middle East.' Sadly, no one is saying that new service will come from a U.S.-based carrier.

So, the ones I've heard mentioned most (in no particular order):
--Turkish
--Emirates
--Qatar
--China (?)
--Hainan (I think they either gave up or were never really serious to begin with)

Also interesting is that there seems to be NO talk of service to South America. New England is very culturally diverse, with (it would seem) a ready-made population base to support service to that continent.

[Edited 2013-01-04 07:36:32]

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5875 times:

South America surprises me also. Living in Boston, I can tell you it has a very large Brazilian and Colombian population. Is it on the same level as Miami or NYC - no, but it's rather large. Would think a BOS-BOG on a 738/757 would work or a 787 on BOS-GIG/GRU?

My guess is going to be the Middle East - TK, QR, EK

[Edited 2013-01-04 09:50:29]

User currently offlineMalayil From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5825 times:

Its going to be Emirates.

User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5786 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 1):
South America surprises me also. Living in Boston, I can tell you it has a very large Brazilian and Colombian population. Is it on the same level as Miami or NYC - no, but it's rather large. Would think a BOS-BOG on a 738/757 would work or a 787 on BOS-GIG/GRU?

There is nothing surprising about it.

NYC and MIA/MCO have tons of Latin American tourists and more business links... BOS does not. On top of whatever VFR they might have. And BOS for North-South connections does not work, since anyone flying from BOS can easily connect in JFK, MIA, MCO, CLT, IAD, DFW... to Brazil or anywhere else in LATAM.

I could only see a connection to a hub...the likes of a Copa PTY-BOS with a B737 so passengers can connect to somewhere else. Yet BOS is more Brazilian/Portuguese than Spanish, so even for VFR, Copa/PTY might not be a good idea.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5749 times:

Quoting Malayil (Reply 2):
Its going to be Emirates.

  

Of all the rumors, this seems to be the one that most people are certain about.


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

BOS-GRU on a 787 *might* work, but who would fly it? UA isn't going to put a 787 in BOS for that route. NYC/Florida gave a stronger local area market and serve almost all connections better or as well as BOS would.

Quoting Malayil (Reply 2):

I agree. It will be EK to DXB.

Middle East, for those of you who don't know what DXB or EK are.  


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32784 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

Emirates is coming to Boston soon.

BOS-Brazil is a good sized market - to CNF, GRU and GIG - but yield sucks. The 787 doesn't fix that situation. It's like BOS-Portugal, which, while served, is not served by a regular scheduled airline and is very underserved relative to demand.

New England lacks business ties to the entire Latin America region and is poorly located geographically to support service. We've already seen AeroMexico and TACA come and quickly leave.



a.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5633 times:
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Middle East, Emirates has only so many quality American cities left it can fly to. Boston is one or two on that list.

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8376 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5625 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
BOS-Brazil is a good sized market - to CNF, GRU and GIG - but yield sucks. The 787 doesn't fix that situation. It's like BOS-Portugal, which, while served, is not served by a regular scheduled airline and is very underserved relative to demand.

Well, BOS-LIS is served by a regularly scheduled airline: SATA. They even code-share with US and TP. I've been on it too  
But I agree that the yields are low and with so much competition from BOS to Europe and S.America, I just don't see any new routes popping up. Brazil seems especially difficult because Brazilians don't feel attracted to visit cold, northern Boston, and it's just too far of a vacation destination for New Englanders. When you think about it, Brazil is just as far as Hawaii.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13130 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5603 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
Sadly, no one is saying that new service will come from a U.S.-based carrier.

Not a surprise. Longhaul thrives with connections.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 4):
Quoting Malayil (Reply 2):
Its going to be Emirates.

  

Of all the rumors, this seems to be the one that most people are certain about.

That would be my best guess.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32784 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
Well, BOS-LIS is served by a regularly scheduled airline: SATA. They even code-share with US and TP. I've been on it too

All SATA flights to Boston are public charter.



a.
User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5537 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
Well, BOS-LIS is served by a regularly scheduled airline: SATA. They even code-share with US and TP.


Served by an unknown non-aligned airline such as SATA via PDL (Azores) 2 times a week. Hardly a service anyone would consider when flying to Europe. This is like saying that Boston is connected to Africa because of the TACV flight... factually it is, but in practice?


User currently offlineicelandair75w From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...icago-as-787-deliveries-begin.html

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/11/1...urkish-airlines-expands-to-boston/

+1 more that I can't release  


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

Is TK to BOS and SFO confirmed? I thiught it was still just a wish list destination.

User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
Sadly, no one is saying that new service will come from a U.S.-based carrier.

Keep your fingers crossed that B6 tries a Central American leisure/VFR route ex: BOS-SJO at a 2-4x weekly frequency.

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
--Hainan (I think they either gave up or were never really serious to begin with)

Hainan sold or transferred the route Authority BOS-PEK to China Eastern whose largest hub is PVG and the bigger market from BOS. I think I have read that China-U.S. may become open skies soon. It would be interesting to see who jumps in then if anyone. Could CA possibly start BOS-PEK? Does anyone have overall BOS-China traffic? I'm only able to get top three markets PEK/PVG/CAN (There's also HKG but I'm leaving that one out).


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2628 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 3):
I could only see a connection to a hub...the likes of a Copa PTY-BOS with a B737 so passengers can connect to somewhere else. Yet BOS is more Brazilian/Portuguese than Spanish, so even for VFR, Copa/PTY might not be a good idea.

If timed properly, a CM B737-700 BOS-PTY-BOS could work.
CM already flies to several Brazilian cities out of its hubs and if those Brazilian cities help CM to fly thrice daily to PUJ and 4 times per day to both CUN and MCO I can't see why Brazilians wouldn't consider CM when flying between South America and BOS.
Even at once per day, people in New England might like to fly international between BOS and Latin America / Caribbean and avoid connections in EWR, MIA, ATL or IAH.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32784 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5299 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 13):

Is TK to BOS and SFO confirmed? I thiught it was still just a wish list destination.

]

TK (and QR) to BOS are nothing more than a wish list. But EK, I'm hearing, is the real deal.



a.
User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 13):

TK tells the universe their expansion plans years ahead of time. They probably seriously will fly to BOS in a few years (at least that is their plan, but who knows.) But EK will beat them, and possibly hurt TK service.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5153 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 17):
TK tells the universe their expansion plans years ahead of time. They probably seriously will fly to BOS in a few years (at least that is their plan, but who knows.) But EK will beat them, and possibly hurt TK service.

They are required to by Turkish Law to announce when they start analyzing/researching a new route.


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5100 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 18):

True. But probably doesn't help the TK profit. I bet we will see EK in BOS in late this year (2013)


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5031 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 18):
They are required to by Turkish Law to announce when they start analyzing/researching a new route.

To the general public, or to the Turkish authorities in a source that usually ends up getting leaked to the public?  

I've heard that EK was also going to start service to MIA, how serious is that?

Also, JL may be eating up a good part of the BOS-China market...


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 20):

I've heard from multiple creditable sources that BOS is the next EK American Destination. The EK North America thread reached a general consensus that BOS and then MIA would be next.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4914 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
We've already seen AeroMexico and TACA come and quickly leave.

Could AM perhaps return to BOS with better schedules and with codeshares with DL and the European SkyTeam carriers serving BOS?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4871 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 20):
Also, JL may be eating up a good part of the BOS-China market...

Play around with connections to Chinese cities from BOS via NRT on various dates: you may not like what you see unless you do not mind a stopover in Tokyo.

http://www.ar.jal.com/arl/en/flight_planning/schedule/

JL's BOS-NRT flight does connect well with other major Japanese cities plus SIN, HKG, BKK, SGN, HAN, ICN, PUS


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8269 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Hasn't Qatar already announced BOS?


This Website Censors Me
25 adamh8297 : It was a codeshare with DL and here are the times of the previous flight when I flew it. Flight: Delta 8042 Depart: 8:30 AM (BOS) Arrive: 1:30 PM (ME
26 justinlee : I think the traffic right is not an issue in the BOS's China route. The most important thing is when the chinese carriers can get 787. Chinese carrie
27 clrd4t8koff : If EK is the next new carrier, what is the likely aircraft to open the route? 77L, 773ER?
28 SCQ83 : For China, I would bet on Air China or Hainan to PEK. Air China being a public airline seems to open routes for political/economical reasons... i.e. t
29 adamh8297 : The 787 is not the magic wand for BOS-China or any long haul service that is not yet served. In the past 8 years BOS-PVG increased 186% and BOS-PEK i
30 Viscount724 : Are you sure about that? I didn't think public charters could display fares/schedules in GDS, codeshare, or sell connections involving other carriers
31 ChrisNH : I actually think it is. The 787 allowed JAL to break into the market profitably, and that's what it's all about...profit. Any route can evolve to a b
32 Post contains images surfandsnow : I haven't heard anything about BOS-China coming to fruition anytime soon, and certainly not before some kind of BOS service by a Middle Eastern carri
33 Post contains images UA787DEN : I agree with all of this, but one question: How long did you spend writing that? I think EK will beat QR and TK. TK looks like it will be last to the
34 Post contains links mah4546 : Absolutely sure. Public charter operated by SATA on behalf of Azores Express. Public charters can display and publish fares. http://www.sata.pt/en/sa
35 alphaomega : Haha - sorry guys, but no. QR and TK are the only middle eastern carriers that have somewhat of a plan beyond rumor so far, and have actually announc
36 ChrisNH : In the Crandall days, AA was a competitively violent airline. Years later, thoroughly weakened and unable to fight, AA got sand kicked in its face by
37 adamh8297 : I agree with you on EK but I think TK beats QR since they can provide a tremendous amount of new one-stop opportunities from BOS. I thought this myse
38 SCQ83 : I also think that coming EK first, TK makes more sense as a second one. EK and TK networks are largely complementary (TK is also suitable for Turkey,
39 alphaomega : You don't apply for landing rights with Massport, and yes they would give them incentives. Airlines must have approved landing rights from CBP for al
40 mah4546 : So an airline that is constantly leading every other airline in revenue growth this year is a weakened entity? And you do realize AA is not actively
41 Post contains images UA787DEN : I agree TK would make more sense than QR 2nd. But I'm not sure they will make it in time. But of course, QR might try to jump in and take a different
42 Viscount724 : The way the first paragaph of that link is worded makes it sound like the Azores Express charters are separate from the SATA International flights. H
43 Post contains links and images adamh8297 : Good prediction Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS
44 BOStonsox : How big is BOS-BOG? That would be a route B6 would start with an A320 most likely, but it might be pushing it (it's 100 miles shorter than BOS-SFO, b
45 DolphinAir747 : I doubt it, seeing as BOS has only one flight to Asia and one to South America! Having an effective connection hub requires drawing from many destina
46 adamh8297 : BOS-BOG is only 20 PDEW - B6 can try to pry a few passengers via MCO/FLL from AA, DL UA and by summer CM.
47 BOStonsox : I was thinking of either JL doing fifth-freedom flights NRT-BOS-GRU or a codeshare between an Asian carrier and a South American one that sends pax t
48 penguins : Boston has both a big, not huge, Chinese and Middle Eastern communities. I've lived there and I know that all of the Chinese college students go back
49 justinlee : But for a route as long as BOS-China, the business travelers are much more important for yields. You can always fill the Y cabin with low prices.
50 penguins : That is a very valid point and I do agree that the flight is bound to happen sooner rather than later. My main reason for choosing the Middle East is
51 UA787DEN : Copa PTY-BOS in Amadeus. There is a thread devoted to it. Maybe they have authority now?
52 icelandair75w : They do indeed have authority now.
53 Post contains links jetbluefan1 : This article leads me to believe EK is very close to announcing BOS. It is a bit of reading between the lines, but this quote especially struck me: "I
54 alphaomega : Their initial schedule request was for 0100-0500, so glad to see they were able to work out 1800-1000. Long ground time but if it works, glad to see
55 Post contains links and images airbazar : The link you provided doesn't say anything about today's flight's to Boston. It just implies that Azores Express (which is a travel company owned by
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