LY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2444 posts, RR: 2 Posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8681 times:
Hi all,
how many 738 equipped with Boeing Sky Interior(BSI) does AA have in its fleet?
Also, I read on seat guru that AA is retrofitting its older 738s with the BSI. Is that true? http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ame...ican_Airlines_Boeing_737-800_B.php
Finally, I fly this summer MIA-YUL, what are my chances to get a BSI 738?
I'm not at work so I don't have exact figures to give, but if my memory serves me correctly AA has about 150 new 738's so about halfway done. They are rotated throughout the AA network and are not route specific so you're chances are just about as good as flying from anywhere that operates with a 738 service. AA is adding three new 738s a month and is currently retrofitting one of the newer 738s a month. At IAH about half of our MIA flights are with the BSI interior. So good luck!
AA Agent-IAH: My comments and opinions do not necessarily represent my employer.
JoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8581 times:
Currently 193 are active in the fleet, 5 more than total super 80's
Configurations are as follows
26 are configured F16/Y132
111 are configured F16/Y134
56 are configured F16/Y144
Final configuration for all airplanes will be F16/Y134. That may be the "reconfiguring" you were hearing about. You cannot convert a standard 737 to the Sky Interior.
Deltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8566 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8490 times:
zippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 4716 posts, RR: 13 Reply 4, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8369 times:
I didn't realize that older Boeing 738's could be converted over to the Sky interior. Does this include the more rounded window frame? Is there any airline that would convert/retrofit their 737-7's with a Sky Interior. I know our (FL) 737-700's when they get converted into WN fleet will not have the Sky Interior. The ones that transfer from our FL fleer get a complete makeover but in the WN Evolve Interior.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5751 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8308 times:
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 4): I didn't realize that older Boeing 738's could be converted over to the Sky interior. Does this include the more rounded window frame? Is there any airline that would convert/retrofit their 737-7's with a Sky Interior. I know our (FL) 737-700's when they get converted into WN fleet will not have the Sky Interior. The ones that transfer from our FL fleer get a complete makeover but in the WN Evolve Interior.
The true Sky Interior cannot be retrofitted on existing 737s. However, Heath Tecna offers a replica known as Project Amber, which simulates the look of the Sky Interior. The most noticeable differences include the bin handles and the PSUs.
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liftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8295 times:
I have a gripe with the Sky Interior.
1. The overhead bins while large and spacious have that annoyingly obnoxious handle that "opens both ways" for idiots that cannot understand the concept of pulling on a handle and having something open. It seriously affects the overall look.
2. PAX on the aisle seat do not have an easy way to press the call button or turn on the overhead lamp.
3. The overhead mood lights, while gorgeous at night, look really bad in sunlight, and most short haul flights take place in bright day. Also, the lights cannot continue through a bulkhead, making it look obnoxious as part of the cabin has this awesome mood light, and a few rows just have overall darkness.
Other than that, the sky interior is surly far superior to the interior taken from the 70's on the majority of the 737's.
BizJet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 269 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8241 times:
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 2):
Currently 193 are active in the fleet, 5 more than total super 80's
Configurations are as follows
26 are configured F16/Y132
111 are configured F16/Y134
56 are configured F16/Y144
What's the difference between the F16/Y132 and F16/Y134 configurations? Which two seats are missing in the F16/Y132 version?
Interesting that with MCE, AA has brought down the capacity to 150 seats to reduce the FA requirement to 3. UA, meanwhile, is transitioning their 738 fleet to F16/Y138, which will still require 4 FAs.
Deltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8566 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8075 times:
Quoting BizJet (Reply 8):
Interesting that with MCE, AA has brought down the capacity to 150 seats to reduce the FA requirement to 3. UA, meanwhile, is transitioning their 738 fleet to F16/Y138, which will still require 4 FAs.
And DL's 800s are 16/18/126. Also the M90s are 16/15/129
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
EaglePower83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 135 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8054 times:
I was just on an AA BSI flight from MIA-ORD a few weeks ago.
It was NICE.
Agreed it was difficult to reach the lights from the aisle seat.
One thing I did notice: my previous flight on an AA 757 vs the 737, the 2nd flight had significantly more legroom.
I'm 5'10" and the 757 seats seemed to have tight pitch, which was just brushing my kneecap, while the 737 seemed to have about 3 extra inches of pitch.
SeatGuru says both are 31in pitch.....so I don't get it.
I was not sitting in any (branded) MCE seats.
Are the seat pitches that different from the 57 and 37?
FL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1499 posts, RR: 12 Reply 11, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8016 times:
Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 10): Are the seat pitches that different from the 57 and 37?
Seat pitch is the distance between a point on a seat and that same point on the seat in front of it. It is not a measurement of legroom. A really thin seat with 31" pitch provides more legroom than a thick seat with 31" pitch which is what I'm guessing you noticed between an old 757 seat and a new 737 seat.
EaglePower83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 135 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7985 times:
Quoting FL787 (Reply 11): Seat pitch is the distance between a point on a seat and that same point on the seat in front of it. It is not a measurement of legroom. A really thin seat with 31" pitch provides more legroom than a thick seat with 31" pitch which is what I'm guessing you noticed between an old 757 seat and a new 737 seat.
Interesting.
That's gotta be it.
Thinner, more modern seats on the 737.
I certainly appreciated it.
zippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 4716 posts, RR: 13 Reply 13, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7957 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5): The true Sky Interior cannot be retrofitted on existing 737s. However, Heath Tecna offers a replica known as Project Amber, which simulates the look of the Sky Interior. The most noticeable differences include the bin handles and the PSUs.
I had that feeling but, when you mean difference in the PSU's does that mean the aftermarket conversions use regular lighting vs. the new LED personal lights and, are the gaspers the old traditional shapes vs. the new "flower petal" design on the Sky Interior and 787's? And on the aftermarket conversion do they have the rounded window frames?
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5751 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7878 times:
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 13): I had that feeling but, when you mean difference in the PSU's does that mean the aftermarket conversions use regular lighting vs. the new LED personal lights and, are the gaspers the old traditional shapes vs. the new "flower petal" design on the Sky Interior and 787's? And on the aftermarket conversion do they have the rounded window frames?
DLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7858 times:
I am looking to book a few AA 738s this summer, and I noticed that at AA.com, the seat map that pulls up in the booking process start at row 8, and the emergency exits are a not the same either as they appear on both versions of seatguru and even the AA.com generic seat map under the "fleet" section. Are they changing that up too? Does this indicate the newest version of the plane?
PassedV1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 136 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7565 times:
Does anyone know what the technical reason for not be able to add the Sky interior to an existing non-sky airframe. Is it that it just isn't offered by Boeing, or is it technically not possible to do because of some major airframe difference.
16/132 is the original 738 configuration w/ original seats
16/144 was the new configuration with new seats prior to MCE
16/138 is the new MCE configuration
16/134 is the final configuration with MCE and Preferred Seats (AA has blocked four center seats aft of the exit rows with tables to bring minimum crew down to three.)
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
My main gripe is that the gaspers in the PSUs seem to be woefully inadequate compared to the old ones. To paraphrase the Top Gear presenters, it's like being coughed on by a mouse.
XT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3126 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7120 times:
Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 16):
Does anyone know what the technical reason for not be able to add the Sky interior to an existing non-sky airframe
Boeing stated that they reconfigured the overhead space for the new interior. I don't recall if they give specifics. but expect that its a new wiring layout atleast, plus the structure to hold the panels on. So I'm sure you can retrofit it to an old plane, just the money required is far too great making it cheaper to buy a new plane and sell the old one rather than upgrade.
Deltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8566 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6995 times:
Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 19):
Boeing stated that they reconfigured the overhead space for the new interior. I don't recall if they give specifics. but expect that its a new wiring layout atleast, plus the structure to hold the panels on. So I'm sure you can retrofit it to an old plane, just the money required is far too great making it cheaper to buy a new plane and sell the old one rather than upgrade.
and its something that will bring zero(or verry verry little) ROI and could take money if more bags can be carried on vs checked
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16798 posts, RR: 57 Reply 21, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6743 times:
Quoting BA0197 (Reply 1): AA is adding three new 738s a month and is currently retrofitting one of the newer 738s a month. At IAH about half of our MIA flights are with the BSI interior.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3): IIRC someone has or is working on an after market BSI. (for 737 and 757 aircraft)
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5): The true Sky Interior cannot be retrofitted on existing 737s. However, Heath Tecna offers a replica known as Project Amber, which simulates the look of the Sky Interior.
This is true. Boeing did not offer a retrofit. Whether it "can" be done or not...well, anything "can" be done. Boeing decided it wasn't worth it and Heath Techna did.
Some of these retrofits are quite convincing. The PMNW DC-9's were internally almost indistinguishable from a 717. There were a few details that gave it away, but if you dropped me into one blindfolded and asked me whether it was a 717 or DC-9, I'd have to do some serious snooping around to figure it out.
BizJet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 269 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5293 times:
Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 17): 16/134 is the final configuration with MCE and Preferred Seats (AA has blocked four center seats aft of the exit rows with tables to bring minimum crew down to three.)
How quick and easy is it to remove the four tables blocking the center seats to allow AA to sell the four seats and staff with a fourth FA, for flights where the high load and fares justify the expense of the 4th FA? From a MX point of view, can the tables be added/removed quickly during a RON or even a turn? And from a regulatory perspective, would the FAA allow AA this flexibility?
I'm thinking of two types of scenarios —
First, flight by flight. e.g., first flight of the day is expecting a high load, so AA staffs with a fourth FA and sells to 16/138. The next flight doesn't need the extra 4 seats, so mx pops the tables on the seats during the turn to reduce capacity to 16/134, and the next flight goes out with only 3 FAs.
Second, season by season. e.g., AA uses the 16/138 config during the peak summer months and Christmas/NYE peak period, and 16/134 rest of the year.
gdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5217 times:
I've flown on the newer AA 738s with BSI and I dislike them. The reason - significantly less legroom in coach seats. Try to avoid these birds. The BSI interior is nice though, but I don't care when my legs are cramped.
JoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4370 times:
Quoting BizJet (Reply 25): How quick and easy is it to remove the four tables blocking the center seats to allow AA to sell the four seats and staff with a fourth FA, for flights where the high load and fares justify the expense of the 4th FA? From a MX point of view, can the tables be added/removed quickly during a RON or even a turn? And from a regulatory perspective, would the FAA allow AA this flexibility?
I'm thinking of two types of scenarios —
First, flight by flight. e.g., first flight of the day is expecting a high load, so AA staffs with a fourth FA and sells to 16/138. The next flight doesn't need the extra 4 seats, so mx pops the tables on the seats during the turn to reduce capacity to 16/134, and the next flight goes out with only 3 FAs.
Second, season by season. e.g., AA uses the 16/138 config during the peak summer months and Christmas/NYE peak period, and 16/134 rest of the year.
While the physical removal would likely be fairly quick, its not going to happen. First of all other adjustments to the seat have physically been made, seatbelts and the IFE port removed. Second eventually all airplanes, this will be the standard configuration, and the seats wont even be offered for sale in a high load factor situation.
Just yesterday I had one going to DFW, and eventhough the flight had the 4th FA, we had to "spoil" those seats although I had both revenue and non revenue customers.
Finally, those seats are being sold at a premium cost so people can pay extra for extra room.
And just for giggles (I was going to use another term) and grins, if those tables are removed and replaced at a whim, they will start to disappear and have to be repurchased..etc etc etc...
qqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2197 posts, RR: 14 Reply 28, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4287 times:
Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 23): Are AA B738NG supposed to retrofit to BSI?
No.
Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 23): I do know next 738s will arrive w/AVOD in Y soon.
First to arrive with AVOD are scheduled for delivery in December, AFAIK. Can't come soon enough!
Quoting BizJet (Reply 25): How quick and easy is it to remove the four tables blocking the center seats to allow AA to sell the four seats and staff with a fourth FA, for flights where the high load and fares justify the expense of the 4th FA? From a MX point of view, can the tables be added/removed quickly during a RON or even a turn? And from a regulatory perspective, would the FAA allow AA this flexibility?
The tables look like they could fairly quickly be taken out, but I don't believe that's in AA's plans. AA had to get special permission to have those blocked seats removed from the overall seat count in order to bring the minimum down. Initially, blocking the seats with those tables didn't count to bring the seat count down for an FAA minimum of three F/As. I think they came to the conclusion that the cost of the fourth F/A outweighs any benefit of four additional passengers, and that the tables are permanent. If they ever come out, it'll be fleet wide, not a flight by flight basis, IMO.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 29, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4220 times:
Quoting liftsifter (Reply 7): 1. The overhead bins while large and spacious have that annoyingly obnoxious handle that "opens both ways" for idiots that cannot understand the concept of pulling on a handle and having something open. It seriously affects the overall look.
I've been staring at that handle for 2 minutes, and can't figure out what could possibly be objectionable about it. It's the same handle as is found on the 787 and 747-8, and is much better integrated into the rest of the design than the aluminum handles on the 737NG interior and the Boeing Signature Interior.
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JoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4055 times:
Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 28): First to arrive with AVOD are scheduled for delivery in December,
Could be ship 3JW, it was delivered Dec 20 and sat in DWH for almost 16 days. Just entered service yesterday. I checked delivery schedule and no planned for rest of month.
qqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2197 posts, RR: 14 Reply 31, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4003 times:
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 30): Could be ship 3JW, it was delivered Dec 20 and sat in DWH for almost 16 days. Just entered service yesterday. I checked delivery schedule and no planned for rest of month.
I should have said December 2013. It's still going to be a while before we see AVOD on the 738. But, of course, we'll at least see the new system on the 773 very soon, and on the A319s coming online starting in June. As best I know, there are no plans to add AVOD to any 738s that aren't delivered with it. All subject to change, of course!
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
JoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 32, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3931 times:
Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 31): there are no plans to add AVOD to any 738s that aren't delivered with it.
IMHO for what its worth, thats a mistake. Delivers an inconsistant product to our customers. But thats just my opinion.
FWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3165 posts, RR: 1 Reply 33, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3663 times:
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 32): IMHO for what its worth, thats a mistake. Delivers an inconsistant product to our customers. But thats just my opinion.
I agree on the product inconsistency: AA should consider doing a "lite" version of the AVOD system and leather seats (minus the BSI) for the existing 738 fleet. I know from experience in marketing that the last thing you want is an inconsistent brand. While not from the airline business, this is still related to consistency: I worked on a healthcare rebranding and renaming project with my employer. We made sure that with the change in name and logo, everything possible with the old name and logo went out the window. Even their website URL was changed to reflect the new name.
Back to the airline business: At the same time, DL has a heavy dose of product inconsistency in their 7 different 752 configurations, even though I think they have a better onboard product overall than AA does. Some DL 752s have AVOD (PMDL ex-Song and BusinessElite), some have overhead monitors (PMDL non-Song and ex-TZ; PMNW 5500, 5600 Asia and trans-Atlantic), and some have no IFE at all (PMNW 5600 domestic). To be fair, many of the older domestic DL 752s (and A320s, another fleet type without AVOD) in the DL fleet will be replaced with 739ERs soon, so the product will become more consistent as the PMNW 5500s, older PMDL 752s, and ex-TZ 752s will be retired/scrapped. The PMNW 5600s are still relatively new, so I could see one last retrofit for the PMNW 5600s with AVOD (and a refit of the newer PMDL non-AVOD birds to similar standards) before they get turned into Coke cans and MacBook Pros.
JoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2716 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 33): I agree on the product inconsistency
IMHO the only thing that is really consistant in the airline industry is inconsistency
N243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1489 posts, RR: 21 Reply 36, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2162 times:
Quoting LY777 (Reply 35): There is no such a difference before and after.
Even though I disagree (the big honking CRTs alone make some of the planes appear way older), the interior mod results in more parts commonality with newer planes, weight savings, and (hopefully) more durable and reliable components, all items that the airline cares about.
Plus, the retrofit doesn't require much (if any) extra work, since it's done during a heavy C-check, when all the side panels, floors and seats have to be removed anyway.
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