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Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 533 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16823 times:

Here is a good topic. Around 1958 TWA ran by Howard Hughes was thinking about buying Northeast Airlines.
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-who would survive?
Western and Continental-new compmany Continental Western
Pan Am and TWA-would either name survive or a new airline created.
A lot of mergers did not happen because the CAB would not approve them.
Anyone want to add anything else?

91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedeltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16846 times:

United-US Airways in 2000, with the DCA ops were going to be spun off into a new airline (that had an AMR investment) called DC Air.

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16810 times:

I don't know if it counts, but there is also US Airways' attempted hostile takeover of Delta while the latter airline was in bankruptcy.

User currently offlineBA0197 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2011, 313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16773 times:

BA and AA initially wanted to merge operations however were rejected by the European and American courts. They eventually established their JBA after multiple attempts at satisfying the regulators.

BA and KL, failed after it was thought that BA was not giving KL enough credit for their operation.

BA and Swiss?


User currently offlinebeechtobus From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16750 times:

I was excited about Frontiers and Western Pacific's merger before it fell through. I believe there was once upon a time talk of Frontier 1 merging with UAL before the former went belly up.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25300 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16716 times:

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):

BA and Swiss?

There were no merger plans, just an alliance.


User currently offlineBA0197 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2011, 313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16699 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):

If I just may say that would have been a formidable alliance. Very powerful. If I may, what happened. Did BA decide to go with oneworld or did Swiss back out?


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16688 times:

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 6):
If I just may say that would have been a formidable alliance. Very powerful. If I may, what happened. Did BA decide to go with oneworld or did Swiss back out?

LH bought Swiss, so there went the relationship. Swiss was also getting close to AA and I think many expected them to join Oneworld eventually.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25300 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16612 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-

Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970 (with NW the surviving carrier) but the CAB wouldn't agree that National's recently-awarded MIA-LAX route could be included without further hearings etc., and NW backed out of the merger.

Long thread on similar subject a year ago.
Announced Airline Mergers That Never Happened (by 727LOVER Aug 7 2011 in Civil Aviation)


User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16500 times:

In 2006/07, before BA/IB merged into IAG, Lufthansa showed public interest on taking over Iberia.

As for Spanair, the word in the street was that Qatar Airways was to take a stake in the company (à la Etihad with Air Berlin) and save it... but that never happened and they went bankrupt almost 1 year ago.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16465 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-

Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970

All are now part of Delta Air Lines.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7531 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16442 times:

FR is currently making its second attempt to buy EI. Its first attempt was rejected by the competition authorities.

As a result of that first attempt FR already owns 29.4 percent of EI's equity. However the Irish government also owns 25.4 per cent of the airline.

A big sticking point in any multinational purchase are the international bilateral air service agreements that usually specify that services be limited to operations of one or sometimes more airlines from the countries signing the agreement. This is why AF and KL retain their individual identities and are legally still French and Dutch. Similarly the IAG partners, BA and IB and the members of the Lufthansa Group like LX, OS and LH itself retain their individual nationalities and identities.

Although the trend towards new Open Skies Agreements suggests things may be changing, it only needs one significant country, such as the Russian Federation, to insist on maintaining traditional bilateral agreements to ensure that multi-national mergers do not result in the identity of the merged airlines disappearing.


User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16406 times:

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 1):
United-US Airways in 2000

Part of the deal also involved merging PSA, and Piedmont into ACA.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25300 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16366 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 10):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-

Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970

All are now part of Delta Air Lines.

I would say that part of National is now incorporated in DL. Pan Am acquired National but DL didn't acquire all of Pan Am.


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16328 times:

TWA to just about everyone in the 1980s and 1990s.

Northwest had a lot of close proposed.mergers and half mergers/half alliances throughout the years (KLM)


User currently offlinespartanmjf From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16292 times:

Was there not talk of a PA / NW merger in the late 1980's?


"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16270 times:

Northwest and Continental in 1992

User currently offlinesparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16238 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Eastern-American in 1962 with American the surviving carrier.CAB denied the plans in 1963.
Sparky


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16140 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 16):
Northwest and Continental in 1992

There was also Delta and Continental in the mid 90s. It was because of that takeover attempt that NW eventually got their golden share as they helped CO fight off DL.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16126 times:

Wasn't both Pan Am and Texas International bidding for National, one reason Pan Am paid too much for National?
If TI had acquired NA...
CO and EA might have been left alone...
and...

-Rampart


User currently offlineCapEd388 From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16123 times:

1980s - Braniff and Eastern.


388 346 77W 787
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16108 times:

I dont think it was ever announced, but there were talks at one time about AirTran/TWA, and TWA/US. at the time US/UA was announced NW/AA were in talks about merging too. I still think US/TW would have been a good combo, combined with HP. Definitely would have given US coverage in the midwest via STL.

User currently offlinedcann40 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16041 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 10):
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-

Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970

All are now part of Delta Air Lines.

National isn't. National was taken over by Pan Am. Delta never acquired Pan Am.


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16046 times:

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 21):

The TWA mess plus the US-HP mess probably would have caused angry pilots to crash helicopters in the headquarters of the striking Executives In Dubai  

TWA was actively looking to merge throughout the 90s. No one wanted to. Most other carriers were doing better.at the time, and NO ONE wanted to be a part of the TWA mess. There were just so many issues.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16034 times:

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 21):

I dont think it was ever announced, but there were talks at one time about AirTran/TWA, and TWA/US. at the time US/UA was announced NW/AA were in talks about merging too. I still think US/TW would have been a good combo, combined with HP. Definitely would have given US coverage in the midwest via STL.

I recall it being an HP+TW proposal, before US was in the picture, I could be wrong. I agree, it might have been a good combo.

-Rampart


User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16534 times:

Don't know which year but American wanted Republic.


The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16621 times:

I would think that American Airlines and Braniff would have been a good merger in the 1970s. It would open up South America for AA.

User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 17037 times:

Quoting doulasc (Reply 26):

Braniff never really made money, and was an interesting carrier, to say the least. As far as airlines to acquire, Braniff would have been higher on the list mainly because it added to the DFW presence and removed a competitor.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 23):

I forgot to mention the 747s flying LHR-HNL-LAS, flown by computer while all the pilots were in Dubai crashing copters into the HQ of the striking executives. And Karabu selling half the seats.


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1153 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 16828 times:

Well, wasn't there US+UA in 2007?

User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 16890 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 7):

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 6):
If I just may say that would have been a formidable alliance. Very powerful. If I may, what happened. Did BA decide to go with oneworld or did Swiss back out?

LH bought Swiss, so there went the relationship. Swiss was also getting close to AA and I think many expected them to join Oneworld eventually.

Swiss was a member-elect of oneworld. I was working with AA and my oneworld colleagues in 1995-96 on the coordinated Ticketing Manual. LX was getting the drafts as we went along, but we were surprised with their sudden withdrawal right as we finished. Shortly thereafter, they linked up with LH. We had been waiting for LX to supply their info on pre-paids, refunds, net tickets, Invol Reroute, etc. for inclusion in the final oneworld manual.



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 16787 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 28):

US-UA mergers have popped up over the years. I believe UA was looking at options, and Star Alliance partner that would strengthen the East US popped up. But US was still not finished merging with HP (and to this day not everything os sorted out.) Not a great time for UA to merge with US, and UA was still talking with CO a lot.

CO had been the target of hostile takeover bids from DL ans NW in 1996. CO also explored a Western merger right after deregulation.

Pan Am tried to merge with EA, TWA, and AA throughout the 1950s to 70s. They presented a NW takeover bid in 1989.

US explored an AA or UA merger in 2008, and UA again in 2010, any many were surprised when UA and US didn't merge, UA choosing CO instead


User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 16735 times:

I've also heard from some people (some of them high up the food chain) at work that before DL and NW merged that DL and UA were to merge but at that time UA had 'too much baggage' so DL backed off. I don't really remember seeing/hearing anything between DL/UA announced so it could all be hearsay.

User currently offlineIndependence76 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16371 times:

Back in the 1993, Swissair, Scandinavian (SAS), KLM, and Austrian announced a merger agreement called "Alcazar."

It progressed until the Swiss court rejected it entirely. It was one of the major events which pushed for the failed expansion plan in Swissair.



"In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes." - John Ruskin
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16188 times:

There was talk of TW and PI before US entered the picture...

User currently offline9lflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15762 times:

More of an acquisition but Southwest and Frontier recently before Airtran.


Then before our demise Colgan and Mesaba were going to be folded into one.



My opinions do not represent the opinions of my company. They are solely the opinion of the poster.
User currently offlinePhen From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15137 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
R is currently making its second attempt to buy EI. Its first attempt was rejected by the competition authorities.

Not entirely accurate; FR has just had it's third attempt to take over EI effectively quashed by the Irish Government who has clearly stated that it will not sell it's stake in the airline to FR.


User currently offlineFuling From Australia, joined Apr 2011, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 14700 times:

Didn't Air New Zealand try to buy out Ansett Australia just before Ansett was grounded?

User currently offlineVHHYI From Australia, joined Oct 2007, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14359 times:

Quoting Fuling (Reply 36):
Didn't Air New Zealand try to buy out Ansett Australia just before Ansett was grounded?

They owned Ansett (having acquired half from TNT in the mid-90s and the rest from News Corp later on)!, except for Ansett International which was 51% owned by Australian interests to allow it to operate, the exact same structure Virgin Australia is operating under today.

When they realized they paid too much for it, they tried getting SQ to inject cash in various manners (stonewalled by foreign ownership limits on NZ), then in a last ditch effort before collapse they offered to QF for $1.

edit: What you might be thinking of is Air NZ/Ansett trying to buy Virgin Blue for $250m, rejected by SRB himself at a press conference.

[Edited 2013-01-06 04:49:48]


This Porsche is like an Airbus;an Engineering marvel, but without passion - Jeremy Clarkson
User currently offlineokAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14308 times:

AY and SK, since the dawn of time. Never happened, never will.

okAY


User currently offlineskywaymanaz From United States of America, joined May 2012, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14014 times:

At one point Air Florida was trying to acquire Western but Air Florida went under instead.

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8370 posts, RR: 7
Reply 40, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13836 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 15):
Was there not talk of a PA / NW merger in the late 1980's?

Pan AM was getting funds from a Private Equity shop called the Arlie Group to help fund the buyout of NW. That would have been a great merger returning PA to Asia, sadly it never happened. Funny thing is most of Delta's route system to Europe was Pan Am's.


User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 850 posts, RR: 3
Reply 41, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13653 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 19):

Always thought the same. What would it be like now?

Quoting rampart (Reply 24):

I was working for HP during this time, and was hopeful something would happen. It was becoming obvious that HP needed to do something soon. We were too small.


Also when we went into BK back in the early 90s, there had been lots of rumours that Bill Franke,
and Crandall at AA were good golfing buddies. Crandall had been seen in PHX numerous times
and we thought maybe AA was taking a good look at HP. Even the AA employees in ELP where
I worked were hearing things. Who knows.

JD CRP



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7531 posts, RR: 17
Reply 42, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 12661 times:

Quoting Phen (Reply 35):
Not entirely accurate; FR has just had it's third attempt to take over EI effectively quashed by the Irish Government who has clearly stated that it will not sell it's stake in the airline to FR.

I understood the first bid dated back to 5 October 2006 by when FR had obtained a 19.2 per cent stake in EI. Subsequently by 28 November it had increased that stake to 25,2 per cent and now holds 29.4 per cent of EI's shares.

I also understood that FR notified the EC competition authorities of what I understood was its second and most recent bid on 5 July 2912 and the EC responded on 10 July that it was continuing an investigation as to the impact of the FR equity investment in EI. This was in response to an earlier appeal by EI requesting that the EC disenfranchise the voting rights attributable of the FR stock holding as if FR used its voting rights it would be anti-competitive.

If this was the third bid when was the second Ryanair bid made. I can find no reference to it.

As far as I can determine the current bid has not been "quashed" but is still on-going if in very muddy waters. Indeed as recently as the 29 December the "Irish Examiner" published an article "Minister sees the light on Ryanair Aer Lingus offer". It starts:

"It would seem that the Minister for Transport has seen the light in terms of the validity of the Ryanair offer for Aer Lingus."

If his government has already "quashed" the offer why is its Minister responsible being reported in the Irish press as having "seen the light . . . of the validity of the . . . offer"?


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 12569 times:

United considered buying PI in 1987 but US got the jump and won. How different the industry would had that happened.

I am pretty certain TW and US discussed a merger in the 1980s or 90s.

Rumors floated around about American buying out OZ just before TW did.

NW buying ML(?) in 1991.


User currently offlineozark1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 456 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11829 times:

American and Western tried to merge as well.

User currently offlinecosyr From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11791 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 16):
Northwest and Continental in 1992

This one happened, and it saved Continental, who was almost bought by Delta. Northwest bought a controlling share, without the intention of merging the two airlines into one. That's why NW had the Golden Share up until they merged with Delta themselves.


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11475 times:

In the mid-1960s, Ozark proposed merging with Central Airlines. Central later merged with the original Frontier (and of course, Ozark merged with TW in the mid-1980s.)

[Edited 2013-01-06 09:10:02]

User currently offlineLofty From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10880 times:

Before BA jumped into bed with AA they tried US and UA.

User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10643 times:

Before DL and NW merged, didn't DL attempt to merge with US? I'm wanting to say it was in 2006.

User currently offlineflyjoe From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10610 times:

In 1999, United looked at acquiring America West. I had just left working with US in DEN and was hired by HP in ABQ about that time. I remembered being a bit concerned with that news. HP had a large station because we also did ground handling for CO and F9, which likely would go away and then add in the amount of staff with UA. The numbers didn't favor a new employee.

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jan/21/entertainment/ca-336


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3749 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10460 times:

Before the WN/TZ deal and codeshare, TZ had a deal in place with FL when TZ filed for Chapter 11. FL would have got the MDW hub, leases to 14 MDW gates, some 738s, and the C8 codeshare. TZ would have kept their charters, the IND focus city, and Hawaii routes. HP also expressed interest in TZ's MDW ops, but I'm not sure what that entailed.

WN submitted a higher bid for seven MDW gates and a codeshare with TZ than what FL was going to pay for all of TZ's MDW ops. The bankruptcy court favored WN's bid over FL's. (Ironically, as we all know, WN later bought FL.)



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1037 posts, RR: 4
Reply 51, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 10371 times:

There was HP/TZ in 2004. HP would have assumed the aircraft leases and MDW gates with TZ continuing as a charter outfit and retaining its debt.


Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 10246 times:

[

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 48):
Before DL and NW merged, didn't DL attempt to merge with US?



I think it was the other way around with DL refusing to merge.

I remember reading about the NA-NW merger talks and although it seemed to be ideal and NA's Maytag wanted to get out of the airline, they couldn't even decide where to have their headquarters.


User currently offlineBeachBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 10147 times:

AQ and HA on multiple occasions. We all know how that eventually played out.

User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 54, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 10074 times:

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 21):
AirTran/TWA

That lasted all of about two weeks, as FL got a look at TWA's books and broke off the deal. More than likely the crippling Karabu deal TWA had with Icahn is what killed it since the deal would have still been in force even with a merger. The only way TWA could get out of it was in bankruptcy and FL didn't have the $$$ to provide debtor in possession financing as they were only just beginning to get their own financial issues sorted.



Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 48):
Before DL and NW merged, didn't DL attempt to merge with US? I'm wanting to say it was in 2006.

Hostile takeover bid by US.....


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3749 posts, RR: 2
Reply 55, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 9810 times:

Quoting wn676 (Reply 51):
HP would have assumed the aircraft leases and MDW gates with TZ continuing as a charter outfit and retaining its debt.

Thanks; I didn't remember how HP's bid for TZ went. Would C8 (ATA Connection) and their SAABs have become America West Express then, much like how FL planned on turning C8 into AirTran Connect?

Still, I don't think that TZ's 738s would have lasted very long in HP's Airbus-heavy fleet (with no 737NGs, just 737-200s and 737 Classics). OTOH, the 757s would have been a perfect fit, as both TZ and HP stuck Rolls RB211s on their 757s. Even with the 757 commonality, I bet that the 738 leases would have gone out the door had it happened: HP had 50 A318s on order at the time that could easily be converted into other A320 family members (which they eventually were at US), so those 738s probably would have been replaced by A320s in no time.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 8
Reply 56, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 9704 times:

August 1984...Northeastern International proposed to merge with Air Florida which was in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, but later backed out. Northeastern subsequently went bankrupt itself and Air Florida merged with Midway.

1991.......Northwest and Midway. Northwest backed out of the deal just as the papers were about to be signed and Midway ended up shutting down.

1982.......A merger between PSA and the bankrupt Braniff was explored. This would have allowed us to see PSA in Dallas and I was told they were planning on keeping the 747's but operating them under the PSA name!


User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 9649 times:

Didn't DL and CO have some merger talk in late 1990s?


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 58, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 9662 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 43):
NW buying ML(?) in 1991.

Yes, until NW found out about an environmental nightmare they would have to
clean up at MDW.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 27):

Quoting doulasc (Reply 26):

Braniff never really made money, and was an interesting carrier, to say the least. As far as airlines to acquire, Braniff would have been higher on the list mainly because it added to the DFW presence and removed a competitor.


BN did make money in South America. Until Harding and gang took over and deregulation, they were profitable. They had a considerable amount of accounts receivable when they filed Chapter 11.

There was talk of NW taking over BN ops after they filed for bankruptcy, however NW only wanted aircraft.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineSPaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1773 posts, RR: 3
Reply 59, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9432 times:

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 32):
Back in the 1993, Swissair, Scandinavian (SAS), KLM, and Austrian announced a merger agreement called "Alcazar."

And the new company was to be named Symphony.



KEEP LOOKING UP as in Space Fan News
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 884 posts, RR: 2
Reply 60, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9348 times:

I think there was a project of merger between AF and Sabena in the early 90s?

User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9349 times:

Quoting FI642 (Reply 58):

Yeah, BI expanded too fast after deregulation.

NW tried mergers and takeovers of a lot of airlines. Was it mostly just for metal?


User currently offlinecanyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8895 times:

Considering Southwest's acquisition of Airtran, don't forget not too long ago Southwest first showed interest in acquiring Frontier.

User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 850 posts, RR: 3
Reply 63, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8679 times:

Quoting flyjoe (Reply 49):

I completely forgot about the UA/HP thing. Come to think of it, it scared the crap out of us, because we knew what UA would do. Just grab the planes, and close the hubs down. But this was about the time
all airlines were in another scramble to get bigger. Like the mid 80's all over again.


JD CRP



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3749 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8573 times:

Quoting Lofty (Reply 47):
Before BA jumped into bed with AA they tried US and UA.

IIRC, until BA got in bed with US and T5 opened at ORD, BA flights departed from T1 at ORD (with arrivals at the temporary T4 like everyone else). UA moved much of their JFK operations into BA's T7 at around the same time.

Quoting FI642 (Reply 58):
BN did make money in South America. Until Harding and gang took over and deregulation, they were profitable.

Harding was CEO of BN long before deregulation and when they were profitable. It was only when deregulation took hold when BN started their overexpansion. The feeling at BN after deregulation was that if BN didn't expand rapidly, UA (then "the largest airline in the free world" and a staunch proponent of deregulation) would crush BN like a bug. Little did they know that it wasn't UA that was doing the killing of BN - they were killing themselves (though AA's new DFW hub didn't help matters, either).

Quoting FI642 (Reply 58):
Yes, until NW found out about an environmental nightmare they would have to
clean up at MDW.

Was this in regards to a hangar, fuel contamination, or something else?

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 57):
Didn't DL and CO have some merger talk in late 1990s?
DL wanted to buy CO outright, while NW wanted to invest in CO at around the same time. NW's bid was the chosen one, as Gordon Bethune wanted CO to remain independent. (The "golden share" of CO held by NW happened around the same time.)

[Edited 2013-01-06 13:10:21]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineHA_DC9 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 65, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8508 times:

Quoting BeachBoy (Reply 53):
AQ and HA on multiple occasions. We all know how that eventually played out.

Thank god. This would have been a disaster. By the time the final occasion was announced back 2001 (backed by Greg Brenneman) AQ was beginning it's death decline. Many people blamed HA for backing out of the deal, but I can't blame them. The writing was on the wall for AQ. Plus it was speculated that AQ (obviously the weaker airline of the two) wanted more control in the merged entity. AQ at the time was privately owned by the Ching and Ing families and the families stood to lose a huge share of ownership if the deal went through. So in the end, HA backed out and went it alone and the rest is history.


User currently offlineord From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 66, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8092 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 27):
Braniff never really made money, and was an interesting carrier, to say the least.

Braniff made money every year in the 70s, except 1970 and 1979.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7938 times:

People might forget but UA wanted to buy US in 1995.

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 68, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7812 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970 (with NW the surviving carrier) but the CAB wouldn't agree that National's recently-awarded MIA-LAX route could be included without further hearings etc., and NW backed out of the merger.

I read that NW's proposed merger with Northeast was thought to be a sure thing until they found out that the MIA-LAX route was not to be part of the deal, per the CAB. With NW it was to be all or nothing so they backed out at the last minute. DL stepped in and made an offer and it was accepted.

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 48):
Before DL and NW merged, didn't DL attempt to merge with US? I'm wanting to say it was in 2006.

It was a hostile takeover attempt by US during DL's bankruptcy proceedings, which was rejected.



I heard that in the mid 60s, DL and CO were in talks for a merger, but the sticking point was deciding who the surviving carrier was to be. Neither Woolman at DL and Six at CO were willing to give in.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5107 posts, RR: 21
Reply 69, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7441 times:

Southern Airways, before merging with North Central, also had merger talks with Ozark, Texas International, Piedmont and Allegheny. As one top Exec at Southern said in retrospect, "We were too poor to paint and too proud to whitewash."

Western and Wien Air also came close to merging.

There was also some scuttlebutt going around in the early/mid-80's that both Delta and US were kicking the tires at Ozark, but the rumor I heard at the time was that they wanted the planes, not the people. I never put much credence in that, but US and OZ would have made a nice combo, at the time.

Not sure if it was mentioned above, but PA and Braniff 2 also talked a bit, but PA realized that version of Braniff brought little to the table. They needed a bigger domestic partner.

Another rumor I heard from Ozark folks at the time, but there was never any mention of it in the trades that I recall, was that OZ was looking to buy Midway when ML was knee-deep in that Metrolink/Express split personality phase. Again, pure rumor.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineMAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 70, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7131 times:

Qantas and Malaysia Airlines considered a merger around 2007 but never moved forward. This was re-explored by Alan Joyce more recently but talks eventually failed with both parties agreeing only on QF to sponsor MH into Oneworld... which will occur on 1st Feb.

User currently offlinePhen From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 42):
If this was the third bid when was the second Ryanair bid made. I can find no reference to it.

FR made a second attempt in December 2008 which failed - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7757971.stm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 42):
Indeed as recently as the 29 December the "Irish Examiner" published an article "Minister sees the light on Ryanair Aer Lingus offer".

That article seems to be a letter from a reader in Dublin and from reading it, it would seem to me that the author is in fact saying the opposite to what you infer from it - he is saying the Minister saw the light and came out with the statement that the government would not sell: "It would seem that Minister Varadkar has heard this call and is alert to the consequences of a Ryanair takeover of Aer Lingus. He will need to carefully monitor the situation at EU level and ensure that he charters a steady course for the indigenous Irish airline that is Aer Lingus." Sounds like the author is glad that the takeover has failed, no?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion...anair-aer-lingus-offer-218046.html


User currently offlineSkyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6971 times:

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 32):
Back in the 1993, Swissair, Scandinavian (SAS), KLM, and Austrian announced a merger agreement called "Alcazar."

It progressed until the Swiss court rejected it entirely. It was one of the major events which pushed for the failed expansion plan in Swissair.

The failure of this proposed merger spawned the seeds that eventually resulted in the first major airline alliance, Star Alliance, as a way for airlines to work together and mutually benefit without having to buy stakes in each other or merger and draw the scrutiny of regulators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcazar_(airline)



"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

I do remember around 1987 I was living in South Florida and Braniff-2 and Pan Am talking about a merger.
Braniff-2 was going to Buy Pan Am and Braniff was to be the surviving name,I remember reading that if this
merger goes through it will be a sad day for Pan Am.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3203 posts, RR: 5
Reply 74, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 1):
United-US Airways in 2000, with the DCA ops were going to be spun off into a new airline (that had an AMR investment) called DC Air.

Related to all this was Atlantic Coast acquiring PSA, Allegheny, and Piedmont.



FLYi
User currently onlineWALmsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6544 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 68):
I heard that in the mid 60s, DL and CO were in talks for a merger, but the sticking point was deciding who the surviving carrier was to be. Neither Woolman at DL and Six at CO were willing to give in.

Same story going round regarding WA and CO. WA won the coin toss; Six backed out. Don't know if it's true, but a good story nonetheless.



In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

Anybody interested in the SQ and MU merge proposal? I think that might be the largest opportunity in SQ's history.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3749 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 74):
Related to all this was Atlantic Coast acquiring PSA, Allegheny, and Piedmont.

Ironically, three years later, DH decided to stop being affiliated with UA (and DL) as part of UA's Chapter 11 proceedings and fly solo as Independence Air. We all know how well that worked out.  



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

Quoting justinlee (Reply 76):

Air China has too much of a say in the merger and the Government has too much control. Also, CX really doesn't want it.


User currently onlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 870 posts, RR: 2
Reply 79, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5648 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

An AeroMexico-Mexicana merger was proposed a few times. Once after the fall of the Peso in the early 80s, when the companies instead cooperated on routes to alleviate competition. AM eventually went into bankruptcy in 1988 and reemerged a smaller company. A merger was discussed again in the early 90s, when AeroMexico held control of Mexicana. Then later in the decade when a holding group (Cintra) was formed to control AM, MX and AeroPeru.

Rumors were always flying that AM and MX would become one someday, and look who survived!

Tomas SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 80, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5528 times:

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 63):
Quoting flyjoe (Reply 49):
I completely forgot about the UA/HP thing.

Yep, UA wanted additional Airbus to fight MetroJet and US at IAD at the time. Then Wolf came calling offering US for the taking.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2226 posts, RR: 8
Reply 81, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5171 times:

After PA sold their Pacific routes to UA, DL and Northwest came very close to merging, because NW needed more domestic feed to fight UA. NW would have taken over DL, because NW was much stronger financially than DL. I've read that DL wanted $5 / share more than NW was willing to pay.

Of course, DL went on to buy WA, NW went on to buy Republic, and DL, WA, NW, and RC wound up merging in the end.

In the 1950s, before Northeast was awarded routes to Florida, DL agreed to merge with Northeast. The CAB did not approve the merger, and DL wound up merging with Chicago & Southern instead. Two decades later, DL finally consummated their merger with NE.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 82, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5137 times:

NW was planning to buy the original Midway Airlines (ML). Then, NW did a due dilligence and didn't like what it saw. It backed out, and ML wound up filing for bankruptcy.

NW and ML were competing on MDW-MSP. I'm not sure if NW had started service on MDW-DTW, which was one of ML's orginal routes.

Besides ML's large operation at MDW, NW would have gotten a good-sized PHL operation (buying the old EA operation at PHL is what got ML in financial troubles) and slots into HPN (which ML acquired with the Air Florida merger).

ML had DC-9s and MD-80s, which NW was also flying. The oddballs would have been the old Air Florida 732s.


User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5086 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 78):
Air China has too much of a say in the merger and the Government has too much control. Also, CX really doesn't want it.

In return, China Eastern acquired Shanghai Airlines and kicked the Star Alliance out of SHA  


User currently offlinePSAJet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 74):
Related to all this was Atlantic Coast acquiring PSA, Allegheny, and Piedmont.

Don't know where you got this info from but here is the chronological list of Allegheny/US Air, PSA and Piedmont.

1979 : Allegheny changes its name to USAir to reflect its expanding network.
1987 : Pacific Southwest Airlines of San Diego becomes a wholly-owned subsidiary of USAir Group in May.
Piedmont Airlines, becomes a subsidiary of USAir Group in November 1987.
1988 : PSA is merged into USAir.
1989 : Piedmont is integrated into USAir,

http://www.usairways.com/en-US/about.../pressroom/history/chronology.html


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3203 posts, RR: 5
Reply 85, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5006 times:

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 84):
Don't know where you got this info from but here is the chronological list of Allegheny/US Air, PSA and Piedmont.

1979 : Allegheny changes its name to USAir to reflect its expanding network.
1987 : Pacific Southwest Airlines of San Diego becomes a wholly-owned subsidiary of USAir Group in May.
Piedmont Airlines, becomes a subsidiary of USAir Group in November 1987.
1988 : PSA is merged into USAir.
1989 : Piedmont is integrated into USAir,

I'm referring to today's Allegheny. Piedmont, and PSA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/03/bu...al-to-buy-3-regional-airlines.html



FLYi
User currently offlineMainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

I read a recent interview with Ed Colodny, former CEO of US, saying that US was in merger talks with CO in the 90's. I hadn't heard this one before.


Every flight counts.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3749 posts, RR: 2
Reply 87, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4857 times:

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 86):
I read a recent interview with Ed Colodny, former CEO of US, saying that US was in merger talks with CO in the 90's. I hadn't heard this one before.

Neither have I, so I presume this was before Gordon Bethune became CEO of CO.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 88, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 81):
After PA sold their Pacific routes to UA, DL and Northwest came very close to merging, because NW needed more domestic feed to fight UA. NW would have taken over DL, because NW was much stronger financially than DL.

Exactly what time period are we talking about, here? PA sold the Pacific operation to UA in April of '85 and DL announced the merger with Western in September of '86. DL was doing very well financially around this time so I can't imagine that NW was doing any better than DL was.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2226 posts, RR: 8
Reply 89, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4558 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 88):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 81):
After PA sold their Pacific routes to UA, DL and Northwest came very close to merging, because NW needed more domestic feed to fight UA. NW would have taken over DL, because NW was much stronger financially than DL.

Exactly what time period are we talking about, here? PA sold the Pacific operation to UA in April of '85 and DL announced the merger with Western in September of '86. DL was doing very well financially around this time so I can't imagine that NW was doing any better than DL was.

Fall 1985, prior to the RC / NW deal.

Although DL was doing well, NW was doing just as well, and had less debt on their balance sheet (a legacy of Don Nyrop).



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4399 times:

A few more I can think of

VS-BMI- plenty of discussions in the search when this became a possibility and why it never happened
VS-Dan Air- Virgin were on the verge of a deal with Dan Air but pulled out at the last minute leaving BA to take them over
BA-KLM tie up that nearly happened in 2000/2001

B.Cal had a few merger proposals during 1986/1987 before merging with BA. They had an offer from British Midland which they rejected, another from Air Europe and looked into a tie up with UTA French Airlines. SAS was the final competitor but lost out.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 91, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

Way back in the day, there was talk several times about an Eastern National merger. I'm not sure who would have been the surviving carrier.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
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