Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13  
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 1002 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13896 times:

This weekend United has released an update to its Summer 2013 Transatlantic schedule, with some surprising changes:

- EWR - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces B757-200 - sCO was 2xdaily B757-200
- IAD - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces 1x daily B757-200 - sUA was 1x daily B777-200
- IAH - AMS 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x failt B767-300 - back to sCO SKYTEAM capacity
- IAH - LHR 3x daily B767-300 replaces 2x daily B777-200
- IAH - FRA 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x daily B767-400

Has anyone found any further adjustments?


www.united.com

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline76794p From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12023 times:

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAH - FRA 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x daily B767-400

Now there are roughly 800 seats a day between the two cities with the B772 and the A388. I don't think the loads will be good on UA because the LH product is a lot better than it is on UA.



There's always money IN the banana stand.
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2461 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11885 times:

Quoting 76794p (Reply 1):
the LH product is a lot better than it is on UA.

Not in business class. The food/wine may be better on LH but the angled J seats and "cattle-car" atmosphere in the upper deck of the LH 380 left me thoroughly unimpressed.


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11774 times:

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAH - AMS 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x failt B767-300 - back to sCO SKYTEAM capacity

Basically, the 777 replaces the 787 which was always destined to do this run (though initially a 764 was planned).

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):

- EWR - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces B757-200 - sCO was 2xdaily B757-200

A notable reduction in capacity (well at least the 757s are gone).

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAD - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces 1x daily B757-200 - sUA was 1x daily B777-200

AFAIK this is incorrect. The 767 did S12 (untill September when the 757 took over). The same thing is currently in their slot request, thus it's likely that there is no change in S13. The same applies to EWR, which will mean an even bigger downgauge as S12 was twice daily with 757. Seems that UA is losing its battles (with the exception of IAH).

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAH - AMS 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x failt B767-300 - back to sCO SKYTEAM capacity

Not really as AMS-IAH was twice daily when CO was in Skyteam.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2724 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11578 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 3):
Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAH - AMS 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x failt B767-300 - back to sCO SKYTEAM capacity

Not really as AMS-IAH was twice daily when CO was in Skyteam.

I believe the second IAH-AMS was not daily, operating either 4 or 5 days per week. Down from maybe 2300 seats/wk to 1869.
One would think the dropping of SkyTeam at AMS would be a bigger hit than about a 20% drop in total seats.

If anyone wants to compare TATL impact of Star vs. SkyTeam, then additions of seats at FRA and MUC should be measured against seat reductions at CGD and AMS.


User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11542 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
Not in business class. The food/wine may be better on LH but the angled J seats and "cattle-car" atmosphere in the upper deck of the LH 380 left me thoroughly unimpressed.

Yes, to be sure. As great an airline as LH are, they sure blew it on the A380 biz seat selection....



Next
User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 955 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11359 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
Not in business class. The food/wine may be better on LH but the angled J seats and "cattle-car" atmosphere in the upper deck of the LH 380 left me thoroughly unimpressed.

I agree 100%!!! Those A380 business class angled seats are horrible!!! 11pm departure FRA-JNB and couldn't sleep the entire flight! Never again for this guy!! UA seats are much better!!! ....especially the PMUA business class new seats...love them!!


User currently offlineFlyingHollander From Netherlands, joined Jul 2011, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11251 times:

I'm glad to see the widebodies back at AMS. Now if only US Airways would put a widebody on PHL-AMS. Even though the 757 is a beautiful aircraft I don't think it belongs on transatlantic flights between two large airports.


If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11026 times:

EWR-EDI goes to 2x daily 757. Also EWR-FCO returns with a 764.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineskinny From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10796 times:

At lease BHX is still on at least for now must make profit then.

User currently offlineUnited885 From Germany, joined Apr 2011, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10508 times:

By they way, UA announced that they want to concentrate their 747 fleet at SFO. So only SFO - FRA will remain as UA 747 flights between USA and Europe.
I remember that there wasn´t so much other 747 flights between USA and Europe but aren´t there flight to LHR?
I guess with the re-orientation of the transatlantic capacitys, UA will focus their capacities to the asian market.



I haven´t been everywhere, but it´s on my list.
User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 741 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10277 times:

Quoting United885 (Reply 10):
I remember that there wasn´t so much other 747 flights between USA and Europe but aren´t there flight to LHR?

Other than SFO-FRA, UA has never been a big 747 operator between the US and Europe. In recent years, during the summer season FRA would get the occassional 747 to ORD or IAD, but that's about it. LHR has almost always been a 777/767 destination.

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- EWR - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces B757-200 - sCO was 2xdaily B757-200
- IAD - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces 1x daily B757-200 - sUA was 1x daily B777-200

Are these going to be newly-reconfigured 2-class 763 birds? If so, it might be UA trying to right size capacity. I read on here multiple times that pre-merger UA was pretty popular in AMS, but as a cheap holiday option to the U.S. A 2-class 763 would offer more capacity than a 757 but offer fewer premium seats than a 777.



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9962 times:

Maybe UA will be cheaper for all classes which will help fill the cabin.

Quoting 76794p (Reply 1):
I don't think the loads will be good on UA because the LH product is a lot better than it is on UA.


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9872 times:

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 7):
Even though the 757 is a beautiful aircraft I don't think it belongs on transatlantic flights between two large airports.

I agree, but UA isn't the only one deploying it on TATL markets between two important cities.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6931 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9724 times:

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- EWR - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces B757-200 - sCO was 2xdaily B757-200

About effing time. DL has been operating a 763 on EWR-AMS for the past 3 summers.

Unfortunately not seeing a lot of 757 switch ups out of EWR. Would be nice to see the 763 on EWR-DUB/MAD/MAN like they did in the past.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25989 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9436 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 6):
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
Not in business class. The food/wine may be better on LH but the angled J seats and "cattle-car" atmosphere in the upper deck of the LH 380 left me thoroughly unimpressed.

I agree 100%!!! Those A380 business class angled seats are horrible!!! 11pm departure FRA-JNB and couldn't sleep the entire flight! Never again for this guy!! UA seats are much better!!! ....especially the PMUA business class new seats...love them!!

LH said a year or so ago that the new fully flat J class seats introduced on the 747-8 will eventually replace all J seats on their entire longhaul fleet, including the current seats on the A380s.


User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9263 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
LH said a year or so ago that the new fully flat J class seats introduced on the 747-8 will eventually replace all J seats on their entire longhaul fleet, including the current seats on the A380s.

Correct, and the A380s are the last birds slated to get those seats, in the 2015-2016 timeframe. For now, United offers the better Business Class product on Houston-Frankfurt.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlinebergkampsticket From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2012, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9111 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):

I think that's the same as last year then? I had heard the 2 x daily 757 period was going to be reduced.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26137 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9054 times:

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
with some surprising changes:

Um what is so surprising?

Quoting United885 (Reply 10):
o only SFO - FRA will remain as UA 747 flights between USA and Europe.

A SFO-LHR (954/955) also gets the 744 for the summer.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 1002 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8616 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 3):
AFAIK this is incorrect. The 767 did S12 (untill September when the 757 took over). The same thing is currently in their slot request, thus it's likely that there is no change in S13. The same applies to EWR, which will mean an even bigger downgauge as S12 was twice daily with 757. Seems that UA is losing its battles (with the exception of IAH).

Sorry to say this is incorrect.

UA operated a single B757 on both IAD-AMS and EWR-AMS in S12, routing the aircraft EWR-AMS-IAD-AMS-EWR on a daily basis. It was because of this significant downsize by UA that KLM commenced a second AMS-IAD service several days a week in S12 to compensate.

It was CO that operated EWR-AMS 2x daily with B757 prior to the merger, while UA operated 1x daily B777 IAD-AMS in the past.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6730 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6950 times:

IAD-CDG is being converted from a 3 class 763 to a 2 class 763, so a slight bump up in capacity.

User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6693 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 4):
I believe the second IAH-AMS was not daily, operating either 4 or 5 days per week. Down from maybe 2300 seats/wk to 1869.
One would think the dropping of SkyTeam at AMS would be a bigger hit than about a 20% drop in total seats.

Isn't this mainly because many who travel via IAH-AMS transit onward to oil rich nations in Africa? I wouldn't be surprised UA hasn't decreased the capacity in this market for this reason since their loyal ffs like transiting via AMS to Africa, even with UA operating IAH-LOS.

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 6):
I agree 100%!!! Those A380 business class angled seats are horrible!!! 11pm departure FRA-JNB and couldn't sleep the entire flight! Never again for this guy!! UA seats are much better!!! ....especially the PMUA business class new seats...love them!!

Does anyone have an idea when LH is going to start the upgrades their J cabins? It's obvious why LH is flying them to IAH/SFO-large Star hubs. They do need to get a consistent and better J product for longhaul across the board and do so promptly

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

A SFO-LHR (954/955) also gets the 744 for the summer.

Does UA have the lowest fares in this market? Both BA and VS have much better products across the board if UA chooses to send the 744 in the SFO-LHR market.

I do believe UA is downgauging LAX-LHR from the 77E to a 3 class 787.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6594 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 22):
Isn't this mainly because many who travel via IAH-AMS transit onward to oil rich nations in Africa?

Not just Africa but the North Sea and Norway.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 22):
I do believe UA is downgauging LAX-LHR from the 77E to a 3 class 787.

I'm assuming this is a typo.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinesonomaflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6579 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This is a result of the introduction of the 787s and finally getting the pilots contract issues sorted to allow a merger of the pilot groups and rotate the fleet to appropriate locations to optimize their network.

Many of us wondered how soon the 757s would give way to 763s on the TATL routes. This is great news. It also gives UA the opportunity to move the 757s to routes in the South American, Caribbean and other Latin American markets.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6424 times:

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 24):

This is a result of the introduction of the 787s and finally getting the pilots contract issues sorted to allow a merger of the pilot groups and rotate the fleet to appropriate locations to optimize their network.

Many of us wondered how soon the 757s would give way to 763s on the TATL routes. This is great news. It also gives UA the opportunity to move the 757s to routes in the South American, Caribbean and other Latin American markets.

So the pilots contracts did get sorted? That makes sense as I am seeing some limited pmUA flying from IAH to Central American destinations i.e. Airbus to MEX. The freeing up of those transatlantic 757s have afforded IAH to see double daily 757s to BOG.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6226 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
Um what is so surprising?

That UA is dropping the 757 on EWR-AMS and putting in a 763. But "surprising" is subjective. Either way, it's "welcome news" to me.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 26, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5582 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 25):
That makes sense as I am seeing some limited pmUA flying from IAH to Central American destinations i.e. Airbus to MEX.

I don't yet think they're related. They're crossfleeting the Airbus planes to IAH in droves - but there is now an sUA base there.

I think we're still a long way away from sCO employees flying sUA planes and vice versa.

NS


User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5610 times:

the Airbii have better cargo capability, I can see why they are sending them to IAH. But I think IAH-CCS will go B757 just like IAH-BOG.


Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlineLufthansa411 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

Quoting avek00 (Reply 16):
Correct, and the A380s are the last birds slated to get those seats, in the 2015-2016 timeframe. For now, United offers the better Business Class product on Houston-Frankfurt.

From what I have heard, at least 2 A380's are scheduled to get the new business class seat in 2013, possibly more depending on whether any problems are encountered. AFAIK LH is not picking specific fleets to upgrade totally, but doing some of each type of a/c each year. Where did you hear that the A380s will be the last upgraded?

[Edited 2013-01-06 20:30:07]


Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
User currently offlineCOflyerBOS From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5374 times:

AMS was a strong connection point when CO was in Skyteam but don't forget, IAH-AMS is a strong market on its own. This is mostly due to a little company called ROYAL DUTCH SHELL. Lots of O&D between the two cities.

User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2984 posts, RR: 13
Reply 30, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4577 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm missing something? Is cross fleeting going to happen? Like seeing Global First, 3 class birds from EWR?


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 1035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

Have all the former UA domestic 763's 664UA - 677UA been converted to long-haul / transatlantic standard now ?

User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2724 posts, RR: 9
Reply 32, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4175 times:

Quoting TC957 (Reply 31):
Have all the former UA domestic 763's 664UA - 677UA been converted to long-haul / transatlantic standard now ?

10 done, three in process.

667-677 completed.
664 should exit HKG 1/11/13
665 should exit HKG about 2/10/13
666 should exit HKG about 2/21/13


User currently offlineTdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 463 posts, RR: 3
Reply 33, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4151 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 22):
Quoting laca773 (Reply 22):
Isn't this mainly because many who travel via IAH-AMS transit onward to oil rich nations in Africa?

Not just Africa but the North Sea and Norway.

KL carries a lot of this traffic, particularly to ABZ, SVG, BGO, etc, but UA does not via AMS. I'm surprised by the increase in gauge to the 777. Shell must have increased their J-seat requirements for the route or it's just an easy place to stick a 777.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 27):
But I think IAH-CCS will go B757 just like IAH-BOG.

Won't be happening anytime soon sadly with the current US/Venezuela relationship even though demand has been there for a LONG time.



We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 34, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3708 times:

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 28):
Where did you hear that the A380s will be the last upgraded?


FlyerTalk, as part of the SCORE discussion. Yes, a few planes of each fleet type will receive New J in coming years, but the A380s are currently scheduled to wrap up at the end of the overhaul process.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 4):
One would think the dropping of SkyTeam at AMS would be a bigger hit than about a 20% drop in total seats.

Not if the corporate Shell contract moved from KL to UA (which happened).

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 4):

I believe the second IAH-AMS was not daily, operating either 4 or 5 days per week. Down from maybe 2300 seats/wk to 1869.

No both were daily (at least during the Summer). AFAIK they served AMS-IAH with a 762 and A 764. The only non daily AMS-IAH flight was the BBJ flight.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 25):

That UA is dropping the 757 on EWR-AMS and putting in a 763. But "surprising" is subjective. Either way, it's "welcome news" to me.

Only between if you travel between June 7th and August 13th. For the remainder of S13 it's a one daily 757 (which is a serious capacity cut by UA. The same applies to IAD, which will only be a 763 until August 26th after which it will become a 757 (6 weekly in the final 2 weeks of S13).

Quoting Tdan (Reply 33):

KL carries a lot of this traffic, particularly to ABZ, SVG, BGO, etc, but UA does not via AMS. I'm surprised by the increase in gauge to the 777. Shell must have increased their J-seat requirements for the route or it's just an easy place to stick a 777.

Or they need the 767-400 elsewhere. BTW it "just" 11 business First seats per flight extra.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
United Mulls Reducing (domestic) Capacity? posted Fri Apr 27 2007 08:04:20 by Lightsaber
United Capacity Swaps At MSY posted Sat Mar 3 2007 00:21:17 by MSYtristar
Why Is United Cutting Domestic Capacity? posted Thu Oct 6 2005 03:14:47 by ORD747CLE
KLM To Cut Transatlantic Capacity By 20%? posted Mon Apr 7 2003 06:15:01 by Triley1057
United Airlines Cuts Capacity By 8% posted Sat Mar 22 2003 09:39:56 by Singapore_Air
Cheap United Airlines Transatlantic Tickets posted Tue Mar 4 2003 08:55:00 by Ammunition
United Airline's Transatlantic Role posted Mon May 15 2000 21:41:58 by United747-400
United Airlines Transatlantic Hub. posted Wed Jan 19 2000 01:10:07 by United747-400
United CRC/Capacity Control posted Sun Nov 29 2009 09:39:01 by CALMSP
United News: BOB Replaces Hot Meals, Transatlantic posted Tue Aug 19 2008 03:53:32 by Jamake1
United Mulls Reducing (domestic) Capacity? posted Fri Apr 27 2007 08:04:20 by Lightsaber
United Capacity Swaps At MSY posted Sat Mar 3 2007 00:21:17 by MSYtristar