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Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU  
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3100 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12741 times:

According to airlineroute, Ethiopian Airlines will be opening up their first route to South America, 3x/week starting June 1 2013. The routing will be ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU-LFW-ADD. 767-300ER.

Schedule as follows;

ET506 ADD1045 – 1300LFW1430 – 2000GIG2130 – 2225GRU 763 136
ET507 GRU0050 – 1130LFW1230 – 2100ADD 763 247

Source: http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/06/et-grugig-jun13/

I guess a congratulations is in order to ET for starting their first service to South America!


life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12759 times:

Two stops to GRU from ADD??? We are in 2013... !!!

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16985 posts, RR: 48
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12731 times:

Usually I'm all for nonstops between South America and Africa but this sounds rough. I'm not sure KP with its small fleet can even cobble enough connections at LFW to fill a 763. Hot routing though!


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineaf086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1050 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12697 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
Two stops to GRU from ADD??? We are in 2013... !!!

Actually two stops from GIG to ADD (GRU and LFW). As far as landing times in Brazil are concerned this new schedule is actually better than the old one (it landed at GRU at 3am leaving to Africa at 5am) allowing more connections but still.

It will be tough for ET to pull this one off.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12698 times:

Coming from GRU it's only one stop via LFW. Going there it's two stop.

Given the limited competition, if the market is there, I think they may do alright on this route, despite the multi-stop. The other options are via europe, middle east, or south africa. none of those would save time over this routing.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24109 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12656 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
Two stops to GRU from ADD??? We are in 2013..

It appears to be a triangular route with the GIG stop in one direction only. Permits both major markets in Brazil to be served on one flight most efficiently. GRU is 2 stops westbound and 1 stop eastbound. GIG is the opposite.


User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12605 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):

There is no limited competition... EK, EY, SA, TK, QR all serve GRU non-stop and pretty much serve any destination that can be reached with ET via ADD. Unless I am missing something and there is a huge O&D between Brazil and Ethiopia.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5949 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12607 times:
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Nice one. I always thought it would be KQ first to South America.


MGGS
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9385 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12582 times:

Ethiopian owns ASKY airlines which is based in lome so I have a feeling their emphasis is partially on TOgo based traffic since ASKY can't operate long hul they need to use the Ethiopian brand.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12504 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):

In that case it would make a lot more sense (I assume they have 5th freedom rights). This A-SKY Airlines serves a good number of destinations from Lome, Togo:

Abidjan
Abuja
Accra
Bamako
Brazzaville
Conakry
Cotonou
Dakar
Douala
Freetown
Kinshasa
Lagos
Libreville
Monrovia
N'Djamena
Niamey
Ouagadougou
Yaoundé

An interesting option then to fly to West Africa from Brazil and further LATAM instead of flying via Europe or SA. Though they don't serve any former Portuguese colony such as Bissau, Luanda or Cape Verde.

[Edited 2013-01-06 14:44:50]

User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2137 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12258 times:

Crazy routing. Why is the arrival so late in GRU, however? Surely they could have scheduled it earlier.

Are there slot problems?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24109 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12177 times:

Quoting AF022 (Reply 10):
Why is the arrival so late in GRU, however? Surely they could have scheduled it earlier.

See Reply 9. When I look at some of their A-Sky subsidiary's schedules to/from LFW, the schedule of the new GIG/GRU flight appears to designed to maximize connectivity at LFW.


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12008 times:

Why the stop in LFW? Does the route need the additional pax from Togo? Or is it a fuel stop? If the later, why not use a 787?

User currently offlinetymnbalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 937 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11929 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 12):
Why the stop in LFW? Does the route need the additional pax from Togo? Or is it a fuel stop? If the later, why not use a 787?

As noted above, ET owns a subsidiary named ASKY which is based at LFW. ASKY can provide additional feed to the ET flight.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10017 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):
Given the limited competition, if the market is there, I think they may do alright on this route, despite the multi-stop.

I agree, I think ET is trying to prove there is market and then they can weigh their options.
Interesting also that they have decided at least in this current phase to focus on the West African feed. East Africa (other than ADD) to GIG or GRU is just not attractive at all. for example:
NBO-ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
vs.
NBO-DXB-GRU
Plus it is a 763ER. Which would you take?

On the other hand, LOS-LFW-GIG-GRU is not bad compared to other alternatives.

Congrats to ET nonetheless. They cannot afford to bet the farm on this - prove the route and then optimize is the prudent approach it looks like they have chosen.

[Edited 2013-01-07 02:14:06]

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2891 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9692 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 9):
In that case it would make a lot more sense (I assume they have 5th freedom rights). This A-SKY Airlines serves a good number of destinations from Lome, Togo:

Abidjan
Abuja
Accra
Bamako
Brazzaville
Conakry
Cotonou
Dakar
Douala
Freetown
Kinshasa
Lagos
Libreville
Monrovia
N'Djamena
Niamey
Ouagadougou
Yaoundé

An interesting option then to fly to West Africa from Brazil and further LATAM instead of flying via Europe or SA. Though they don't serve any former Portuguese colony such as Bissau, Luanda or Cape Verde.

This looks like a bold move, and many times, those kind of moves and they pay off, and sometimes not. ET can try to connect passengers via Lome to many other cities, as stated above. I just wonder how strong the S. America to Africa market really is, if flights have struggled in the past between JNB and S. America, how much chance this have? I do like the bold move, and I really hope it does work, but I see a tough road ahead to making it profitable.



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently onlineLH422 From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9566 times:

I met a student at Kilimanjaro Airport who was on her way to BOS. The routing was JRO-MBA-ADD-FCO-IAD-BOS, mostly on ET. I was under the impression that this sort of complex routing is somehow OK for Africa, whereas elsewhere people would avoid these flights at all costs.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2891 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9463 times:

Quoting LH422 (Reply 16):
I met a student at Kilimanjaro Airport who was on her way to BOS. The routing was JRO-MBA-ADD-FCO-IAD-BOS, mostly on ET. I was under the impression that this sort of complex routing is somehow OK for Africa, whereas elsewhere people would avoid these flights at all costs.

Wow that is amazing, since JRO-DAR-AMS-BOS with only 1 change is so much shorter, but ET being in *A helps them at IAD, I know *A is not too strong at GIG or GRU offering limited connectivity beyond the gateway cities ET will serve in Brazil



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1087 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9444 times:

I give this delusional adventure a maximum of six months!!

I would like to see what kind of passengers would be willing to face such an odd routing...


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9113 times:
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Didn't VARIG serve Africa from GIG many, many years ago - Ivory Coast I believe, or was it that they had a crash landing there and that is what was stuck in my head?

I live and work part time in Rio, I wonder if I'd ever get a chance to fly Ethiopian? I'd love to. How is their business product? When I see an Ethiopian aircraft it fascinates me.

If nothing else it futher proves the draw of GRU and now GIG!

I wish them well.



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineAsoRock From Bahrain, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8811 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 19):
I would like to see what kind of passengers would be willing to face such an odd routing...

You seem to assume the route will serve traffic originating from East Africa or Brazil only. Let us remind the readers that VARIG served Nigeria for decades before stopping in the late 1990s. There is simply no attractive alternative from Nigeria to Brazil other than the proposed flight via Lome, and now this will be available thrice weekly (not weekly like VARIG on its flights to Lagos).

Times have changed and freight prospects are very good between Brasil and West Africa. Ethiopian is entering the market betting on West Africa filling half the flights. It remains to be seen whether a 80% load factor in economy and 20% in the premium cabin is sufficient to make money on this route considering the landing fees and so many other overheads to maintain this odd route.


User currently offlinesoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8777 times:

Hope LFW will cope with a new 'drugs route' as west Africa is now a major transit hub from South America to Europe


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2169 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8558 times:

Quoting af086 (Reply 3):
It will be tough for ET to pull this one off.
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 6):
There is no limited competition... EK, EY, SA, TK, QR all serve GRU non-stop and pretty much serve any destination that can be reached with ET via ADD.

Yeah but maybe not so much out of LFW, explaining the stop. Also, do the said airlines also serve GIG?

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 14):
NBO-ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
vs.
NBO-DXB-GRU
Plus it is a 763ER. Which would you take?

An EK 777 does not sound excessively appealing to me. No idea what the ET 763 look like however.

Quoting LH422 (Reply 16):
I met a student at Kilimanjaro Airport who was on her way to BOS. The routing was JRO-MBA-ADD-FCO-IAD-BOS, mostly on ET. I was under the impression that this sort of complex routing is somehow OK for Africa, whereas elsewhere people would avoid these flights at all costs.

People will do the extra few stops if the pricing is right, but high yielding business travelers (assuming these still exist in such cost-cutting era) will indeed try to avoid this.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently onlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2258 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8368 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):

Two stops to GRU from ADD??? We are in 2013... !!!
Quoting United787 (Reply 12):

Why the stop in LFW?
Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 22):
Yeah but maybe not so much out of LFW, explaining the stop
ET needs to stop for fuel in LFW. This route is operated by a B763 and ADD-GIG is 9593 km. Factor in the high altitude of ADD (7600 ft), and ET cannot carry any meaningful payload non stop to Brazil with the B763.

Same reason why ET stops in FCO on its way to IAD and YYZ. On certain days when payload is light, the two routes do operate non stop, but this is with the 77L or 787, which have much better takeoff performance and range than the 763 that will operate to Brazil.

Even the return leg from GRU to ADD would be almost impossible non stop for fully loaded B763, (9931 km GC route, meaning a 10,500km+ route in real life, if not more). Factor in the IFR reserves needed, non direct routing over the Atlantic and Africa, and lack of close by alternates, and you soon realize the stop in LFW on the return is needed as well. On the up side, they might tap into any LFW-Brazil-LFW traffic that might arise, if they have 5th freedom on the route.

If the route were operated by a 77L or 787, the eastbound could surely be operated non stop GRU-ADD.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-01-07 07:06:48]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineaf086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1050 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7891 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 22):
Yeah but maybe not so much out of LFW, explaining the stop. Also, do the said airlines also serve GIG?

Of the mentioned airlines only EK serves GIG.

QR, EY, SA and TK no not fly there.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
25 baguy : Well let's just say the 6 1/2 hours I spent on ADD-LHR was quite enough.. although the outbound a/c was not so bad. I think their 763s come from a fa
26 Post contains links Amexair : I believe originally it was meant for a direct route ADD-GRU using the 77L with perhaps a stop in west Africa for the west-bound route. Based on what
27 ETinCaribe : We will check back with you in 6 months. Since West Africa to Brazil is not well served today, I say this "delusional adventure" will work out. I bel
28 Post contains images flyingalex : The routing is not great, but I have to say I'd take a B763 with a 2-3-2 configuration over EK's ten-abreast 777s any day of the week!
29 yellowtail : Whatever happened to KQs plan to serve GRU?
30 incitatus : I wouldn't go as far, but I am not quite sure there is a market. Tourists from West Africa into Brazil? Maybe a few. The other way around close to no
31 Viscount724 : Until GRU opened, all Varig longhaul flights used GIG as the hub. They served half a dozen points in Africa over the years, including JNB/CPT/LOS. Pa
32 Post contains links RWA380 : I know SA used GIG as a stopping point for US to SA services, but always thought PA used West Africa enroute to JNB. But looking at departedflights y
33 thegreatRDU : This seems too adventurous, the ASKY base throws an interesting component..but I just don't see it...the loads will be horrible.. Only a 100% state-ow
34 BRJ : Although somewhat off topic, to piggy back here, VARIG flew DC-10 service once a week to Lagos. Made the trip back in 1988. We left Lagos late Monday
35 dkny : If you look on the ET website the flight is the same 763 from ADD all the way to Brazil. The 737 to Lome is on the days there is no flight to Brazil
36 BRJ : I agree with you that these types of routings are somewhat accepted. Granted it's a new era in travel to a certain extent, but it has always been ver
37 2travel2know2 : A quite daring move from ET's part. Air-routes between West Africa and Brazil are almost non-existent, can only think of TACV SID-FOR (I wouldn't cons
38 abrelosojos : = KQ's network strategy reminds me of IT's. Copy and paste what the "other" (ET/9W) respectively has done. As much as I admire how KQ has been run, t
39 TWA902fly : A, All the information I have is just from that airlineroute.net posting, and it seems that it is loaded into the GDS, however I do not have access t
40 flyingalex : LAD and TMS I get, but why SSG? I thought Equatorial Guinea has a Spanish history, not Portuguese...
41 Post contains links kiribati : My in-laws live in Pointe Noire, Congo, and the connection to go to Brazil where their daughter lives is interesting and I have been checking airliner
42 Viscount724 : I expect it's all subject to government approvals. Is there even a bilateral between Ethiopia and Brazil currently? I would doubt it but have no idea
43 steex : It does have Portuguese history as well, though you have to go back quite a bit further. Portugal ceded most of the area to Spain in 1778. However, e
44 flyingalex : There are a lot of Angolan immigrants to Brazil. And the fact that the two countries share a common language generates strong ties between the two.
45 TWA902fly : As far as I understand SSG is a big oil destination. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but there are a lot of oil companies in GIG. This connection cou
46 787Kq : Good luck to ET on this creative routing and building up a real West African hub. Although the airline is lacking in many areas, its strategy is light
47 incitatus : Brazilian construction companies have several projects in Equatorial Guinea.
48 deSCL : Why dont they try ADD-GRU nonstop alowing connections from the Middle east and Asia? I bet this market is much more important and lucrative than Brazi
49 TWA902fly : Given that EK, EY, QR already fly to GRU, I would think the competition on Middle East - GRU is pretty strong. Not sure if they could compete against
50 2travel2know2 : I think this quote would answer your question: It's not a language issue, is a oil- and construction-business related one. DT Brazilan routes are doi
51 kiribati : I agree with you. I mean I have no idea how they will perform, but I like to think that the West Africa - Brazil route they have has a lot of potenti
52 Post contains links ETinCaribe : According to this great CAPA article, GRU is 12+ months away - 3x week using a 787 Source: http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-inhabited-continen
53 Post contains links C010T3 : Yes, since 2010: http://www2.anac.gov.br/arquivos/pdf/acordosBilaterais/E/Etiopia.pdf
54 motorhussy : What? The first African airline to Sth America? Surely that honour went to TAAG-Angola or SA?!
55 Viscount724 : SAA started their first service to both South America and North America on February 23, 1969, with one 707 a week JNB-GIG-JFK. I don't think TAAG beg
56 flyingalex : I think he meant that between ET and KQ, he would have expected to see KQ expand to South America first.
57 Post contains links and images LatinPlane : View Large View MediumPhoto © Vito CedriniView Large View MediumPhoto © Daniel R.Carneiro TAAG started flying scheduled flights between Luanda and R
58 AR385 : Thank you.
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