SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 469 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8979 times:
Which is the reason for such a long ground stop? I imagine it is just to reduce connection times in PTY, but isn't there any other way to optimize it? Is this the way CM works in JFK or other stations in the US?
With CM at JFK, they have a daytime flight with a 1 hour turnaround (1250-and 1405) and a RON that arrives at 2350 and departs 0905. Similar morning departure time as BOS, but much later night arrival.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21679 posts, RR: 23 Reply 6, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8859 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 4): With CM at JFK, they have a daytime flight with a 1 hour turnaround (1250-and 1405) and a RON that arrives at 2350 and departs 0905.
CM's YYZ schedule is very similar to the 2nd JFK flight. Arrives YYZ 2341 and departs 0840.
clrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8521 times:
Interesting time to arrive BOS, only to let it sit the next 15.5 hours. Boston's only international terminal, E, isn't that big and arriving around 6pm is heavy European traffic. Gonna have to unload and repark remotely quick. Guess AA dropping their LHR arrivals made some room?
alphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 533 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8447 times:
Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 8): Interesting time to arrive BOS, only to let it sit the next 15.5 hours. Boston's only international terminal, E, isn't that big and arriving around 6pm is heavy European traffic. Gonna have to unload and repark remotely quick. Guess AA dropping their LHR arrivals made some room?
1800 actually isn't too bad for Terminal E...now if they run 1 or 2hrs late thats a different story...
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15813 posts, RR: 50 Reply 10, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8240 times:
Great for BOS but the Latin fares out of BOS are dreadful
icelandair75w From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7912 times:
This is what I have gathered for next summer for Terminal E:
Aer Lingus - 18x weekly, 14x DUB, 4x SNN
Air France - 2x daily, 1x 747, 1x 777
Alitalia - 1x daily, 332
American - No schedule posted, looks like they dropped CDG/LHR service to BOS completely.
British - 4x daily, 2x 777, 2x 747
Copa Airlines - 1x daily, 737
Delta - 1x daily 757 CDG, 2x daily AMS 1x 332 1x333, 1x daily LHR 767
Iberia - 1x daily 340
Icelandair - 18x weekly 757
Japan Airlines - 1x daily 787
Lufthansa - 2 daily FRA 1x 346 1x343/333, 1x daily MUC 343/346
SATA - Could not figure out their messy schedule, probably 9x weekly as they did last summer with a 313
Sun Country - 13x weekly 737 to MSP....
Swiss - 1x daily 333
TACV - 3x weekly 757
Virgin Atlantic - 1x daily 333
zrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2881 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7894 times:
Once upon a time, BOS was the second biggest european gateway city. Now, it is dwarfed by others.
Still, while not a lot of depth of flights. the breadth is pretty strong. BOS sees quite a variety of international carriers that one doesn't find at a whole lot of US airports.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1901 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7795 times:
Quoting zrs70 (Reply 13): Once upon a time, BOS was the second biggest european gateway city. Now, it is dwarfed by others.
That's what deregulation did, IINM, and BOS was one of a small handful of airports where airlines could fly into.
Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 12): This is what I have gathered for next summer for Terminal E:
You forgot all of the B6 arrivals from AUA, BDA, CUN, GCM, MBJ, PUJ, SXM, STI, and SDQ as well as FL/WN's flights to and from CAK, ATL, BWI, MDW, DEN, MCI, MKE, BNA, and STL. I think that's all of them.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 801 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7767 times:
icelandair75w From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7747 times:
WN I didn't factor in, as they operate at gates E1A-E1E, which do not interfere with international air carrier operations (domestic only gates).
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1901 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7721 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 15): I thought IcelandExpress ceased the USA flights when Astreaus went under?
They did, but then WOW Air took over and they have A320s. Iceland Express also leased two A320s. The Iceland Express website has a press release from September announcing flights to BOS, and it is mentioned in other places on their site, but you can't book anything. It's possible they cancelled them, but I would imagine if they did, they would say that they had.
usflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 498 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7708 times:
Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 16): WN I didn't factor in, as they operate at gates E1A-E1E, which do not interfere with international air carrier operations
But the WN/FL passengers do use the same terminal facilities if they desire something other than what's offered in their gate area.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else, any company or any un
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 801 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7698 times:
icelandair75w From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7511 times:
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 18):
But the WN/FL passengers do use the same terminal facilities if they desire something other than what's offered in their gate area.
Very true, I was just talking in terms of gate usage/space anyways. It's a given that the terminal is going to be way too crowded but TSA processing times have been good granted them staffing properly which isn't always the case unfortunately...
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 19):
I didn't know they were domestic only gates that WN used. I guess ya learn something new every day.
Yeah WN/FL lease those gates and areas for their flights only.
The issue that is killing Logan's Terminal E now is the initial expansion plan from yeaaaaars ago that they had introduced. Originally they were supposed to expand the terminal out close to where the American hangar is which would allow for much more gate space..... that never happened.. And now, with the amount of travelling passengers on the rise, and airlines receiving more aircraft and introducing new destinations, Boston is limited on how many they can accommodate. They need to do something soon, as Copa is not the only airline that wants to operate into Boston.
alphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 533 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6924 times:
Quoting stlgph (Reply 11):
going to be interesting in the summer @ Boston, Terminal E. i believe Icelandair is going to go up to 3 daily.
Not 3 every day, but 18x weekly. Their flights are spread out and the already have 1 in the peak of the terminal rush so it won't hurt the gate space.
Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 20):
The issue that is killing Logan's Terminal E now is the initial expansion plan from yeaaaaars ago that they had introduced. Originally they were supposed to expand the terminal out close to where the American hangar is which would allow for much more gate space..... that never happened.. And now, with the amount of travelling passengers on the rise, and airlines receiving more aircraft and introducing new destinations, Boston is limited on how many they can accommodate. They need to do something soon, as Copa is not the only airline that wants to operate into Boston.
They will have a tough time justifying the $$ to expand - yes the terminal is crowded in the evening, but if you go by at 10am its a ghost town. If they were able to get airlines to round out the schedule they would have an easier time getting federal funding to expand (Massport won't foot the bill on their own). IF EK is going to start BOS and they have a morning flight which I believe they would, they'll get the run of the terminal with JL. Now if we can just get KE to come back...
CM will also help round out the morning with a 10am departure. Their initial schedule was denied landing rights by CBP as they wanted to operate 0100-0500, so looks like CBP won with their schedule (which I think is better for the terminal anyways).
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6624 times:
Quoting icelandair75w (Thread starter): Quite exciting to see another carrier commencing services to BOS! Hope to see a press release sometime soon.
I see this as more as a preventive move than anything else. Rumors have been rampant for the last 18 months or so that B6 wants to start PTY from both BOS and JFK in 2013.
THis could be designed encourage B6 out of stay out PTY as much as it is to make money.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
adamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6409 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23): I see this as more as a preventive move than anything else. Rumors have been rampant for the last 18 months or so that B6 wants to start PTY from both BOS and JFK in 2013.
THis could be designed encourage B6 out of stay out PTY as much as it is to make money.
BOS-PTY is under 25 PDEW but the numbers will go up due to this flight. They would fail at BOS-PTY. B6 would start BOS-SJO or BOS-GUA before PTY.
25 yellowtail: I am not so sure about that....PTY is booming right now.
26 airbazar: It still is the largest non-hub European gateway. Heck, BOS sees more TATL airlines than even some large hubs. Not too shaby. Their biggest mistake w
27 clrd4t8koff: It still is the largest non-hub European gateway. Heck, BOS sees more TATL airlines than even some large hubs. Not too shaby. I was thinking the exac
28 adamh8297: PTY is booming... as a CM hub... doesn't mean it would make a good B6 spoke. 2011 NYC (JFK/EWR/LGA) Traffic 92,921 = 127 PDEW -Market Currently well
29 clrd4t8koff: How long has CM & UA been flying non-stop from the NYC area to PTY? A few years is my guess, which is why the numbers are so much larger. Given t
30 STT757: Very surprising, shows how much CM and Panama in general have grown. I would have expected many other routes before BOS, routes such as: MSY, ATL, TPA
31 yellowtail: I agree I would have expected to see TPA (with its education connections) and MSY long before BOS. Don't think SEA is doable n/s.
32 SCQ83: There are a few reasons for that. Despite BOS is not a hub for any major airline, it does not mean there are no connections (interlining). In that se
33 clrd4t8koff: Would be helpful to stay on topic. My post was in regards to European and only European flights. I, and everyone else, is well aware both DFW and IAH
34 SCQ83: Boston area is one of the two (along with the Bay Area) world's largest biotech clusters. Switzerland is home to many pharma companies. For instance,
35 clrd4t8koff: Listen, I appreciate all of the obvious points you keep making. I live in Boston - I'm very well aware of the biotech, rt.128 tech belt, multiple hig
36 AmricanShamrok: SNN-BOS was 4x weekly last summer too (albeit operating Tue, Thu, Sat, Sun). This summer it will operate Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun. Truth be told, EI could
37 ScottB: Putting WN in Terminal E isn't a mistake when one considers that WN uses the domestic-only gates E1A-E1E. Having those gates available would do nothi
38 AmricanShamrok: Don't forget the earlier summer DUB-BOS flight does not preclear due to congestion at DUB so if EI does move terminals it would still have to have at
39 2travel2know2: Flights would arrive and depart between 0100 and 0500h, that's what it meant Poor utilization to BOS not having Port of entry staff to work 0100-0500
40 alphaomega: Sorry - times are through BOS, so 0100 arrival and 0500 departure. DL sits at Terminal E forever because Massport allows them to clean and de-cater a
41 icelandair75w: It's not that Massport allows them, it is that USCBP required them to do so due to the international cleaning/trash/catering. They are required to ri
42 SCQ83: Not that surprising... BOS is probably the largest urban area in the US without a connection to Latin America. Also CM can serve the market with a na
43 adamh8297: Wouldn't UA be better off serving SFO-PTY with a 757?
44 2travel2know2: Yes. Specially if UA schedule matches hub banks at SFO and PTY
45 airbazar: They're in the same terminal. It would be a lot cheaper to convert those gates to international or multi-use gates than it is to build an extension t
47 zrs70: Perhaps this is a new(er) development? In the past 20-25 years, I recall the following: Virgin departing from B Sabena departing from B and C Alitali
48 ScottB: I think you seriously underestimate the cost of converting those gates to support international service. Also, the real estate, with E1A-E1E being in
49 deltairlines: They have about 28 daily departures (combined) out of BOS. Only time four gates would present an issue (under the current schedule) is in the morning
50 airbazar: I might be underestimating it but I don't need to be an expert to know it would be a whole lot cheaper than expanding terminal E on the opposite side
51 yellowtail: WIth CMs hub at the other end and Houston's growign popularity with LatAmericans....there is more than enough demand.
52 2travel2know2: Also remember that CM link was with Continental Houston not with Chicago managed UA. The E190 may be ideal for PTY-HOU to start, but be reminded that
53 SJOtoLIR: I ignore the rotation of their 73Gs. The airline utilizes some 73Gs for some overnight flights such as CM PTY-REC and CM PTY-MVD. One of these 73Gs m
54 abrelosojos: = It is actually very clever scheduling that capitalizes the key bank in PTY and minimizes costs by making crew overnight to a little over min. rest.
55 aviateur: I remember, when I was a kid (and later too).... Multiple Braniff 747s and DC-8s departing nightly for Europe Multiple Northwest 747s departing night
56 SJOtoLIR: CM PTY-BOS might be mostly loaded with passengers coming from Central and South America. CM PTY-LAS began last year and their weekly frequencies were
57 adamh8297: Is the service drop seasonal? I just tried August dates on their website and its flying 5 times a week = X23
58 SJOtoLIR: Good news ! The first time I checked the sources, I didn't find further information beyond June. Regards.
59 adamh8297: Would love to see B6 try 1-2x weekly BOS-SJO but they don't even serve JFK-SJO and its a much bigger market served by only UA from EWR twice daily an
60 2travel2know2: CM may be quite foolish if it'd not take advantage of those long turn-around times for some kind of aircraft maintenance.
61 yellowtail: I know they use the RONs in GUA to do routine maintenance there....stuff like washing the aircraft etc
62 SJOtoLIR: I'm not sure if B6 BOS-SJO or B6 BOS-PTY would be the most suitable addition as all the passengers must end in Central America. This history is total
63 mesaflyguy: AA also serves JFK-SJO daily as well I believe.
64 adamh8297: BOS-SJO is about 4 times larger than BOS-PTY right now and they serve a slighty smaller market BOS-SXM with 1-3x weekly depending on the season. B6's
65 airbazar: I think B6 has bigger fish to fry, from BOS. I would be surprised if there aren't bigger unserved markets in the Caribbean and Mexico alone. The larg
66 adamh8297: Out of the top 75 international destinations - Here are markets currently not served with a non stop flight from BOS and can be served by B6 equipmen
67 ScottB: MEX was tried by AM and failed. And AM has a proper hub in MEX, while the location of BOS offers few suitable connections. It depends on how costly i
68 SJOtoLIR: Correct. However, AA JFK-SJO 7x weekly hasn't operated on year-round basis lately. TA SJO-JFK 6x weekly suddenly matched their weekly frequencies, in
69 2travel2know2: The excuse CM gave to the public as of why the were flying to JFK was that the Panamanian PTY-NYC O/D was JFK-centric from way back (PanAm, Eastern,
70 SCQ83: Just to begin with, HOU does not have customs or inmigration, and they will get only them when the new Southwest terminal (for WN/FL) is completed.
71 SJOtoLIR: CM PTY-MCO 21x weekly is a representative item about the sustainability of one market based basically in outward connections. For example, SCL, EZE a
72 2travel2know2: A bit off-topic here: But IMHO, due to connecting traffic and local O/D LIM may be able to support an A319 daily non-stop to MCO, most likely by LATAM
73 SCQ83: Which means that CM would use the terminal and facilities that Southwest has paid for its own use... instead of using IAH like every other single for
74 2travel2know2: I read on another topic that HOU had requested WN that one of the future international gates will be of common use. It'd surely not be the first time
75 airbazar: True but B6 would run SATA out of town on that route, in every category And with a smaller A320 they might even be able to serve both PDL and TER fro
76 adamh8297: Trying to keep this on topic- Copa has not made an announcement of the flight yet and there are no hints of it on their site though you can price flig
77 yellowtail: If they don't do it WN will.....Personally i know a few Panamanians that live in the Clear lake Area of Houston that currently fly UA...but it WN ope
78 SCQ83: Good prices and connection times to Brazil (+- $1,000 is not bad from BOS), Colombia and Peru. I am yet a bit skeptical about the outbound flights to
79 adamh8297: CM must be going for the VFR folks then. Got $880 for CNF on a recent search for July. AA was $1580 (with better times - red eye in both directions,
80 Cubsrule: Crazy talk. Is CM flying to MDW rather than ORD? How about TA? How many latin american carriers are serving BWI rather than IAD? ONT rather than LAX?
81 SJOtoLIR: Neither TACA nor Copa Airlines is Volaris. CM PTY-ORD just started in December 2011 and their frequencies are not surpassing the daily basis yet. For
82 2travel2know2: CM got to ORD before UA even thought of an ORD-PTY. No Latin American airline is flying to BWI, ONT or FLL while not flying to the main international
83 Cubsrule: Studied it? Sure. But why in the world would they do it? There are only a few examples of legacy carriers serving the secondary airports. MX was at M
84 2travel2know2: In the specific case of a PTY-HOU and PTY-FLL, those routes could be flown on CM smallest aircraft, of course if given there's some Houston and Ft. L
85 Cubsrule: It's not like HOU-COR/MVD is going to make HOU-PTY make sense . . .
86 2travel2know2: Agree on that Sure, back to the original topic, there was no way PTY alone could have supported alone non-stop to BOS,, I dare to say not even year-a
87 777jaah: With all due respect, PTY could not sustain all those frequencies CM has to the continent by itself. People around here often fail to understand the
88 SJOtoLIR: From five years ago approximately, Spirit flies the FLL-PTY sector thrice a week and based purely on the O&D traffic. It wasn't precisely a big s
89 SCQ83: Spirit, like any other US low-cost, allows and sells connecting flights. So it is not based solely on O&D. And FLL is pretty much their US to Lat
90 2travel2know2: The suggestion of CM @ FLL has more to do with flying Cruise passengers to/from FLL, not going after NK passengers. IMHO, if NK was to fly FLL-PTY-FL
91 777jaah: Agree with you 100%. I've flown with CM to destinations that were not offered by any airline in Colombia in that time, CUN and PUJ come to my mind. T
92 AirFrance744: Don't forget about Porter 7x daily DH8! Indeed this is going to be a very buy summer here a BOS!
93 adamh8297: BOS is finally bookable on CM's website... still no press release!!!!
94 2travel2know2: It may not be a CM press release but here's the news CM is bound for BOS from The Boston Globe Boston Panama non-stop
95 AA94: Press release issued this afternoon via email. Available at http://go.rwinds.tk/10Lv7BK. Congrats to Copa, BOS, and PTY!
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 144 posts, 
From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5858 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21679 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
