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Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO  
User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 30537 times:

In a major departure from existing strategy, an MoU for 16 narrowbody aircraft has been signed. No word if this will impact A330 or A350 deliveries or change the west coast network.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...0465913000877/a13-2251_1ex99d1.htm

187 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 999 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 30446 times:
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So basically Hawaiian plans to fly to thin U.S main-land markets.... Maybe SLC, Tucson, Oakland?

User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20736 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 30384 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
Maybe SLC, Tucson, Oakland

Why was Anchorage the first route which came to mind?  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently onlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 30097 times:

Maybe they are going for frequency in large markets? Hourly shuttle service to LAX/SFO from HNL?

A preemptive strike against VX and WN?

[Edited 2013-01-07 05:54:37]


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User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7340 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 29843 times:

Quoting sxf24 (Thread starter):
No word if this will impact A330 or A350 deliveries or change the west coast network.

It's definitely for West Coast. It's a bit risky because the existing A321 can't make it, so they are depending on the guarantees from Airbus that this plane will make it. It is so risky because there is really nowhere else to fly it if it turns out that West Coast is too far. The A320 can't even make it now.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6220 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29785 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It's definitely for West Coast. It's a bit risky because the existing A321 can't make it, so they are depending on the guarantees from Airbus that this plane will make it. It is so risky because there is really nowhere else to fly it if it turns out that West Coast is too far. The A320 can't even make it now.

For sure they have some perfomrance guarantee for Airbus that if it turns out the plane can't make it, they don't have to take it.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29684 times:

Fantastic news. The A321 will look amazing in HA's livery.

[Edited 2013-01-07 06:26:21]

User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2294 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29532 times:

So, perhaps it won't be long before we see an order for A319s for inter-island ops. That would give them complete commonality and lower operating costs. And I'm sure they'd have no problem on a trade-in deal with Airbus for the 717s. I'm not suggesting the 717s need to go, but I could see HA making the case for their early departure. And DL would probably suck those 717s right up. Hmm...


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User currently offlineceo@afg From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 247 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29374 times:

It does look great in HAs colors, alreday one of the most beautiful liveries out there. Check image at Flightglobal.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-signs-mou-for-16-a321neos-380720/



"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." Steven McCroskey, Airplane!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7340 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29337 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 5):
For sure they have some perfomrance guarantee for Airbus that if it turns out the plane can't make it, they don't have to take it.

It is rare that the guarantee is to take the planes back. Usually it is just a cash offset. The cash will help little in this case.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6220 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29243 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
It is rare that the guarantee is to take the planes back. Usually it is just a cash offset. The cash will help little in this case.

Yes, if the plane can't make it to the mainland, maybe Airbus will build an airport off the california coast as compensation 



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 988 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29174 times:

Sounds like they're getting nervous about AS, G4, WS and potentially others (VX and WN?) siphoning away traffic. Not sure what markets these a/c are intended for. By 2017, AS and G4 will easily have any and all west coast-Hawaii thin-medium markets covered.

User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29177 times:

Could they base these on the mainland and use them to provide feed to their wide bodies? Maybe expand their WB schedule at stations like LAS & OAK, then use the 321s to feed those flights with mid-con and trans-con connections? Just a thought...


Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently onlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 705 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29182 times:

"...the A321neo will seat approximately 190 passengers in a two-class configuration (First and Coach) and has a range of 3,650 nautical miles. The aircraft will offer the more comfortable seat widths found in the twin-aisle Airbus A330."

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1771622&highlight=


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29118 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
So basically Hawaiian plans to fly to thin U.S main-land markets.... Maybe SLC, Tucson, Oakland?
Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
Why was Anchorage the first route which came to mind?
Quoting flyby519 (Reply 3):
Maybe they are going for frequency in large markets? Hourly shuttle service to LAX/SFO from HNL?

  
All good guesses. It also frees up A330s and A350s for international flying.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 7):
So, perhaps it won't be long before we see an order for A319s for inter-island ops

I think theyd have the same problems as AQ's 733s and 734s wit the CFM engines.


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 28980 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
So basically Hawaiian plans to fly to thin U.S main-land markets

Watch out Alaska; Hawaiian are coming for your market to the islands.   



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlinen901wa From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 28976 times:

My Brother and I was just talking about this 3 weeks ago. There were rumors running around the hangar in HNL that HAL was looking at a Narrow body for some long thin routes. He and I were thinking a 737 order, so they could get them in service earlier, but I guess the winner is the A321NEO. Congrats to Airbus.

User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7212 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 28988 times:

http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnfull/20130107/LA37625

Source PA newswire http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnfull/20130107/LA37625



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8482 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 28768 times:

Sounds like an "incentive" to cancel the A358 order   
All kidding aside, I bet these will replace most domestic 767 routes.


User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 28428 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It is so risky because there is really nowhere else to fly it if it turns out that West Coast is too far. The A320 can't even make it now.

Why would an airline buy an aircraft if it thought it couldn't perform well on the intended routes? I am surprised at the aircraft choice, given the long over water stretch, but I'm guessing an airline fleet manager has done his homework with greater depth than I just have.

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 6):
Fantastic news. The A321 will look amazing in HA's livery.

Absolutely! Every airline should have a load of them.


User currently offlineje89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 28326 times:
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Quoting flyby519 (Reply 3):
A preemptive strike against VX and WN?
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 11):
Sounds like they're getting nervous about AS, G4, WS and potentially others (VX and WN?) siphoning away traffic.

   Smart move, and yes I'd say they're feeling the mounting pressure from AS, G4, WN, etc.

Straight from the press release: "With its slightly smaller size we'll be able to open new markets that are not viable for wide-body service, while also being able to augment service on existing routes to the West Coast of North America."


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5055 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 28283 times:

I remember our HQ telling us that on a 5-6 hour flight, the A321 had the best seat mile costs in the fleet. The A321NEO can only be even better! In such a price sensitive market (where a wide-body edge is irrelevant), I think this is an excellent decision on the part of HA.

In spite of what a lot of people think, the present A321 can fly SFO-HNL, with two ACTs under normal conditions. For fun one day, I ran the numbers between flights. It has quite a bit more range than the A320. (And less than the A319). I don't doubt therefore that the A321NEO will cover the mission HA sees.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 28047 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 12):
Could they base these on the mainland and use them to provide feed to their wide bodies?

Okay. I just read the press release where it indicates that they are intended for flights to the islands. I still wonder if they might try them on some one-stop routes to inland and eastern markets. Or, if the 321s allow more non-stop flights from the mainland to secondary HA destinations (OGG, LIH, KOA, ITO), could it reduce the inter-island demand enough that they might move some 717s to the mainland to run feeder ops?

[Edited 2013-01-07 07:46:29]


Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3152 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 27906 times:

Does anybody know why HA went with Airbus and not Boeing? Why didn't they go with the 737-900ER, for example? HA had previously been a Boeing customer before buying the A330s and A350s.

User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 629 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 27849 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It's a bit risky because the existing A321 can't make it,

Can you please explain why and give sources ? I am a little bit confused here : the Airbus website shows that a regular A321 based in HNL can definetely reach the US West Coast http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamili...craft/a320family/a321/performance/

With an extra 500 NM range for the NEO it should be more than enough under any circumstances.



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
25 Post contains links and images queb : A321 ceo nominal range from Honolulu: source: Airbus website
26 ERJ : Will this be the first ETOPS A321 by any carrier?
27 Pennphila : Very happy to hear this for HA. I sure they will use them for the smaller markets. Maybe start a west coast to non HNL flight. Or mainland east to wes
28 ItalianFlyer : Makes me wonder if they will start some p2p Micronesia and Marshall Island flying to give former Air Mike some competition. Based on a short search of
29 Asiaflyer : So you don't think they understand what range the plane has? Just usual Airbus bad mouthing. Get over it please.
30 seabosdca : For the A321neo to not be able to make Hawaii, it would have to fail on its promise in a truly spectacular way -- one that would have consequences fo
31 bobnwa : I would guess ths HA decided the A321 was a better aircraft for its planed use.
32 jetsetter629 : Or maybe even open mainland flights from KOA and LIH...
33 BeachBoy : I've been wondering why they haven't done this for years. Despite their public statements to the contrary, I wonder if HA regrets not getting a simila
34 Roseflyer : I think this is an awesome opportunity. They are about a decade too late since AS has been cherry picking the small markets to Hawaii for a few years.
35 seabosdca : Two reasons come to mind: 1) Training commonality with their A330 fleet, whereas they've never operated 737s; and 2) They will want to serve a number
36 je89_w : For widebodies, overcapacity of the B777 for HA's ops, long waiting time for B787 EIS were some of the many factors as to why HA went with the A332.
37 STT757 : I say it's the latter, adding frequencies to existing markets on the West Coast. It would enable HA to either redeploy their widebodies to more Inter
38 Roseflyer : Thanks for the image. It's a good picture, but doesn't tell the whole story. The max range quoted figure is MTOW with full tanks and no wind. (I assu
39 B6WNQX : By the time the B717's are needing replacement, could they possibly look at a turbo prop in the 90 seat category if ATR gets approval to build it or
40 awacsooner : IMO, this sounds flat out dumb. I know that HA is on a major expansion tear lately, but a tourist destination ony can sustain so much...andI fear that
41 Post contains images BoeingGuy : Gee, thanks for clearing that up. I was kind of asking for more details.
42 bobloblaw : No, that would be hugely money losing. Someone mentioned VX. They'd have to be etops first.
43 Post contains images columba : Airbus made them an offer they could not refuse One could only guess, as we don´t know the details of the deal, but one reason might be the commonal
44 BoeingGuy : Do the A321 and A330/350 share a common type rating?
45 neutronstar73 : DING DING DING!! We have a winner. This is the beginning of the end for HA. They have to remember they don't operate in a vacuum, and once WN/AS/DL/U
46 queb : If United can do LAX-HNL and Alaska Airlines PDX-HNL with a 737-800, I don't see why an A321 (ceo or neo) could not do it.
47 flyingalex : No, but the cockpit layout is very, very similar. It remains a separate rating, but the cross-qualification course between the A320 Family and the A3
48 Roseflyer : I am referring to the range chart that Airbus publishes. It is very misleading. It implies that the range limit of the A321 is HNL-DFW or HNL-NRT. Th
49 LHCVG : Given the risk for them - the alternative being to have the NEO's shuttle around the islands, which an NEO is WAY overkill (and unsuited by design) f
50 Viscount724 : YVR-HNL may be an option, altough at least 4 U.S. carriers have tried YVR-HNL in the past without success and dropped the route fairly quickly. BLI-H
51 boeingmd82 : I hear this a lot, but actually, the Boeing 767 was the first Boeing product that HA has utilized since the jet age as far as I remember. A long line
52 LHCVG : That's a great point - much as we like to joke about DL flying the 717's until who-knows-when, I wouldn't be surprised to see HA be the last operator
53 BoeingGuy : I wonder how many carriers BLI-HNL can support. G4 and AS are already there. My understanding is also that BLI-HNL is very successful for AS, but pro
54 KarelXWB : What you see on the Airbus website is the range with full passengers and their baggage, but without extra payload, without headwinds and other weathe
55 DocLightning : The A320 is more than capable of flying the route. It happens to be an accident of history that nobody has used it on that route, but it is quite cap
56 flyby519 : Yes but would an A319 NEO be able to reach the mainland? That could increase fleet utilization and make it worthwhile to run a few intra-island fligh
57 LHCVG : By far it will, with some to spare...the issue is as mentioned that NG planes are just not suited to the short hops used for intra-island flights. Th
58 United_fan : I was thinking that the A321 will be HA's first NB to the West Coast since the DC-8's!
59 Wingtips56 : I read a news article on this MOU today, stating they'd use the A321 for new Mainland routes that are too thin for the A330/B767, naming OGG/KOA - SAN
60 Roseflyer : What surprises me is that the A321 currently can only lift 195,000lbs off of a runway that is 7,000 ft like OGG's. I'm impressed that the A321 NEO ca
61 packsonflight : Possibly the Sharklets play a role there. I read somewhere that the Sharklets increase the MTOW by 3000 kg for given runway.
62 gigneil : That's factually inaccurate, and a poster like yourself knows that it is. A poster like yourself also knows that an A321neo will be able to fly most
63 Post contains images LHCVG : Yeah, ask AQ about how their 73G's worked out!
64 je89_w : You mean B733s and B734s. The B73Gs were primarily used for flights to the West Coast.
65 RWA380 : 100% agree, these new birds will help HA stay daily in markets where a widebody is a bit too much, factoring in the other traffic on the same route f
66 gigneil : Nobody here could actually know the details of that except, of course, ordering the 737-900ER vs a NEO isn't quite a contest. It seems like they were
67 laca773 : Congratulations to HA and Airbus! Even though I think the 73H/739ER and the future 737MAX are very capable and proven already to fly these routes from
68 EagleBoy : No point sticky with an imagined 'loyalty' when economics rule the aviation world. I can remember in the late 1990's, when EI was mostly B737, they t
69 PHX787 : I like that idea but it wouldn't be every hour. Maybe 2-3 hours. Niiiiiiiiiiiice
70 olddominion727 : Funny when I asked this about the 738's or 739's about 6 mos ago, going into thin routes like SCK, MRY, SXM... everyone said I was crazy... I guess I
71 ha763 : Boeing refused because the former board chairman and CEO, John Adams, enriched himself through a $25 million stock buy back in 2002 that saw the majo
72 olddominion727 : As much as I love Boeing... I am happy the A321NEO is fitting their specific niche. I do not want to make this an airbus vs boeing, because I have enj
73 LHCVG : Fair enough. I was more so thinking of the CFM-powered models to the Jurassics and how these newer birds just don't like the short hops with quick tu
74 gigneil : I am not talking about the first time they went to the table. I'm talking about the second time. The first time clearly there was a LOT of issues rel
75 UA735WL : I don't think that this is a downgrade to the west coast...doubtlessly HA will compensate for the reduction in capacity by increasing frequency (they
76 neutronstar73 : Can you provide some details to back this up? I'm genuinely curious about this "dust-up".
77 Post contains images lightsaber : I was wondering if HA would do this. This is great news! Now what engine! Ditto. But this is a good step forward. Lightsaber
78 Deltal1011man : CFM56 and the IAE V2500 don't like short flights with no cool down time. AQ did learned this with the CRM56-3s on the 733/734. End up with them going
79 gigneil : It was talked about extensively here... and I will go looking for the links. NS
80 HA_DC9 : Part of the reason of the split from Boeing that gigneil is talking about too was the issue of intermediate lift. HA's CEO Mark Dunkerley stated publi
81 astuteman : It should beat the A321CEO's capability by about 3 tonnes, thanks to the sharklets And we all know he's talking about using these planes to serve mai
82 AeroWesty : Look at a map of the Far West. Which cities that are substantially inland would they serve beyond PHX, LAS, SLC, DEN and perhaps an outside chance fo
83 PHX787 : PHX is getting upgauged soon to a 330. Not gonna go down to a 321
84 AeroWesty : Let's maintain perspective, I wasn't implying PHX would. I was merely listing the cities which are in the zone astuteman was qualifying. I noted that
85 Post contains images gigneil : I'd be curious as to what. I heard that even the E-Jets weren't good for those quick turns, and the CRJ costs aren't optimal. Beyond that, what capab
86 Pohakuloa : Color me mostly surprised by this MoU "order" from HA, though it would shed light as to the purpose of the 380 visit and Airbus' friendly sales call w
87 EagleBoy : But the A321NEO could allow an increase in frequency and capacity. 2x A321 > A332[Edited 2013-01-08 02:46:22]
88 us330 : The problem is that some of those smaller markets are just that--very small, and a lot of them are oriented toward Australia or New Zealand, not the
89 BA777-236 : Any chance Airbus might do an A318neo in the future? Cause when HAL finally needs to retire their 717's, having an A318neo, A321neo, A330 and A350 fle
90 SANFan : Source please. This is news to me... However, I would think it possible that the route could be changed from 1 daily widebody to 2 daily 321NEOs -- l
91 BoeingGuy : I appreciate your enthusiasm for my second home airport, but I don't think expansion is going to be that extensive. I do think NH will do very well a
92 TheSultanOfWing : Great to see A321 playing catch up with B757's capabilities.......at much lower co$$t. The technology sure has come a long way! FH
93 HoMsaR : No. There's no way it would be cost competitive against the other 100-seaters on the market. Same reason Boeing isn't offering a 737-6 MAX (in fact,
94 Roseflyer : I think you mixed up the acronyms. CEO in my post was referring to another poster using it as Current Engine Option. I see no problem with HNL-West C
95 longhauler : Is that true with the NEO? As it is not true with the CEO. (Using your acronyms). The A321 CEO has better short field performance than the A320, and
96 PHX787 : I don't have a source. This is repeated news here especially after HA moves to T3N.
97 migair54 : The A318 itself was not a sucess, so why spend money and time in an NEO, 100 seat market is for other manufacturers, not boeing or Airbus... Who know
98 brilondon : I don't disagree with you except that when I fly having to go through BLI is a bit of a chore. Where does it say anything about the A319 here in the
99 mariner : Just a question - have they said these A321's will be based at HNL? mariner
100 SANFan : Your post sure sounded to me like a statement of fact. I don't know what "repeated news" means either since, AFAIK, nothing at all has been announced
101 migair54 : They haven´t said, but if they are planning to fly them to few places that´s the logical place, otherwise you need crews all over the place and tha
102 Post contains links BoeingVista : Maybe we are all looking in the wrong direction on HA's ambitions, maybe they are looking to become a pacific island hub. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/p
103 neutronstar73 : Airbus's website say 2 tonnes of extra payload or 500NMI extra range. Either/or.
104 RWA380 : I am sure this is part of HA's plans, it's time they reached out for some low hanging pacific nation fruit. They are the only carrier in the operatin
105 mariner : I'm just wondering if - at some point - Hawaiian wants to be more than Hawaii. mariner
106 lostsound : This is great news! NEO looks gorgeous in that livery. Can't wait to see the real thing! Not a myth, almost anyone who's flown both aircraft can tell
107 scbriml : It would be if it weren't true. I've flown on rattling, beaten-up 737s that haven't been very old. * sigh *
108 qqflyboy : US doesn't seem to have a problem running a shuttle with them in the NE. Ok, so why does it work with US and it won't with HA? I'm genuinely curious.
109 Post contains links and images redrooster3 : They are WAY too late in this market of NB west coast to Hawaii flights. I'm amazed that they are even thinking of this new moto; Let alone an A321!?@
110 Post contains images airportugal310 : Well said. There is a severe amount of misinformation here (shocker...) but I wouldn't even know where to start. That said, fun times ahead for us
111 koruman : This is the correct question to be asking. Everyone seems to be assuming that this is about linking secondary West Coast airports to Honolulu. But ba
112 azjubilee : Of course the planes will be based in HNL. All the crews and infrastructure is there, but that doesn't mean the planes won't fly from the neighbor isl
113 n471wn : At the end of the day HA could no longer sit back and watch their West Coast business go to more nimble competitors flying narrow bodies directly to t
114 Post contains images aerohottie : How about...
115 HNL-Jack : I certainly don't have any inside information, but if one looks at HA's past moves, this appears to be an acquisition that is holding true to the cour
116 ADent : What is the seating capacity on A321NEO and A330? Which one has the lower CASM?
117 HoMsaR : The "shuttle" type service in the northeast involves flights that are longer than the island-hopper shuttles. The environment is a bit different, too
118 gigneil : It is not. Only two engine options - GTF and LEAP-X Good question. Those flights aren't 15 to 20 minutes with a 15 to 20 minute turn. Planes on the N
119 SANFan : This is all very exciting for HA and their future. I agree with what many have said here already. This order of new a/c certainly will give the carrie
120 astuteman : Not the same thing. The sharklets improve field capability for a given runway length by about 3 tonnes MTOW The figures you refer to are the overall
121 PHX787 : I wonder when HA takes their 350s if they actually can do this.........I'd love this!
122 unityofsaints : It's always great when someone calls something a myth and then follows it up with another myth.
123 migair54 : Maybe but I think they can still grow a lot in they home Islands, and if they plan where are they going to establish a second base?? LAX? Japan? any
124 mariner : I think they can still grow in their home base too, I think it is a terrific base for an airline. The downside is that the base is under assault from
125 Post contains links fcogafa : Flightglobal are reporting a reduced range for the A321NEO http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...range-estimate-for-a321neo-380800/
126 astuteman : IIRC it appears to have reduced slightly from a nominal 3 750Nm to a nominal 3 650Nm That said I don't subscribe to flightglobal pro so I can't read
127 Post contains links migair54 : I think making yourself strong at your home is the first step of success, they need to build a core business very strong at home. 100NM is not a big
128 brilondon : HA already has a strong presence in Hawaii as that is their home market and they are the best airline here, IMO. They are really the only show in tow
129 prost : Sloghtly off topic, but I have a question. HA has undoubtedly the superior product to Hawaii from the mainland of the US. However, their First Class p
130 azjubilee : HALs business model caters to the traveler to and from Hawaii. They do not cater to the business traveler who pay full fare business class fares for t
131 n471wn : Thank you and I take this to mean this is your way of telling me I was right in saying that HA would not sit back and let others flying NB's take awa
132 HAL : Futile: adj. /fyootl/: Incapable of producing any useful results; pointless. ex: trying to tell people on Airliners.net that the published range of ai
133 Post contains images astuteman : Please stop believing we're all that stupid. We know the NOMINAL range is exactly that. And is pax only. And is still-air. And usually undersells the
134 Post contains links RWA380 : I agree that HA has slowly gained strength, and now they are stronger than a little inter-island carrier, they are expanding even more, adding New Ze
135 Post contains links lightsaber : What will matter is the A321NEO will have 250nm+ more range than the current 738. That opens up quite a bit of routes for HA. I would like that... but
136 lostsound : These are A321 NEOs so the only engine offerings are Pratt's PW1000G and CFM's Leap-X. As far as I know, Pratt and Rolls couldn't come up with an agr
137 bluewave 707 : Having the A321NEOs give HAL more options to have non-stop service between the Neighbor Islands and the west coast. As well as, smaller mainland marke
138 HAL : I'm sorry if I gave the impression that 'everybody' was stupid. I was specifically aiming my message at the people who, after reading the press relea
139 longhauler : Thanks for the update. Many a good battle has been ruined with fact. But ... as I have noticed, very often "fact" gets ignored, as the rumour or myth
140 astuteman : Thanks for that, Longhauler. the first A321NEO's should typically be capable of about 2 750Nm or so on westbounds to HNL against the sort of winds th
141 ytz : If true, wow! HA could use 321NEOs to serve YYC, SLC and PHX.
142 astuteman : I'm only really going by the type of ratios we see today between nominal ranges and actual ranges on these routes, so I wouldn't take my opinions as
143 RWA380 : HAL, I am sorry what I did in my last post, making it look like you stated what that Australian blogger wrote. Of course you handed me a very nice co
144 koruman : New Caledonia is less silly than it sounds. Hawaiian Airlines already do well to the other large French Pacific territory with their weekly service to
145 astuteman : For it to work the plane has to be able to reach it, of course. Which I think was the issue being raised.... Rgds
146 Post contains links and images Revelation : Seems like those Southern Alaskan can enjoy a respite from their cold weather: Maps generated by the Great Circle Mapper - copyright © Karl L. Swart
147 Polot : AS already does that today with the 738 so it is not a surprise that the A321neo can do it, the question is if that market is big enough for 2 compet
148 Post contains images astuteman : What makes me smile is that if 3 650Nm nominal turns into 2 650Nm actual westbound (say), then by inference it results in a real capability for 4 650
149 mercure1 : The normal ESAD for various O&Ds, based on GC+2% and using 85th% max probabilistic winds for JAN. Now juxtaposed w/ the most recent estimated ESAD
150 PHX787 : PHX is served nicely with a 763 currently and after gate work is done will be upgauged to a 330 as per many sources here in PHX. Route is too lucrati
151 mariner : I agree, Koruman, but I would be shocked if the A321Neo has the range. I think Ben Sandilands has looked at the nominal range, published by Airbus, w
152 airportugal310 : The route is NOT being upguaged. Not in 2013 at least... There are two cities due for an upguage in 2013, both west coast. Not PHX. Can we put that r
153 Post contains images astuteman : You're confusing ESAD with real world range? Or you're confusing me The A321's Economic Still Air Range with 190 pax is almost by definition 3 650Nm.
154 Viscount724 : HNL-PPT-HNL can be done as a turnaround with one crew. HNL-NOU is about 1,000 miles further and would require an overnight stop at NOU with the aircr
155 26point2 : Am I the only one who hates the narrow-body on 5+ hour flights? I will miss the 767 on my SJC-HNL-SJC legs.
156 PHX787 : It's not a rumor it's going to happen. As I've stated on manyreads it's been discussed many times on the PHX thread. And for the love of god....PHX i
157 Post contains images airportugal310 : Frankly, I don't really care what's being discussed where... I suppose I should go revise my departments budget? Not really sure why I bother...
158 azjubilee : It's easy to say that at SOME point PHX will see the 332, purely based on the fleet plans. However you could say that for any HAL city at this point.
159 brilondon : What new routes do you see them using these aircraft on?
160 wn676 : At this point it's only speculation. This whole thing got started over their supposed move to T3N for wingtip clearance, which still hasn't happened
161 mercure1 : I should have stated 2800nm still-air range, w/ real world OEW, ETOPS reserves, +2% post delivery fuel mark-up for degradation, no ACT's, normal pax
162 koruman : Very good point. I was really addressing only issues of demand, not range. With Fiji or Vanuatu to Hawaii I can't see which direction would provide t
163 gigneil : I mean come on now. The 738 can fly from all these destinations now... so an A321neo will be able to do so easily. ...actually it is. Its the definit
164 Post contains images PHX787 : Are you seriously kidding me, and the 4.2 million who live here year round, not counting the million or so snow birds, the ASU and UofA students, and
165 DocLightning : To be fair, all those people couldn't live on Manhattan or in Chicago or in any large, dense city without modern agriculture, transportation, medicin
166 Post contains images HAL : Thanks, although I guess you haven't read any of my 'discussions' with planemaker on single-pilot or remotely-piloted airliners. I read in later post
167 gigneil : AH but they have easy access to vast amounts of raw materials that can't be found near Phoenix. Chicago is entirely water neutral, in fact water is f
168 ferpe : Lets look at that for an instance. A321neo would have 44t left for payload and fuel if one assumes a realistic DOW (taken from Turkish airlines DOW t
169 longhauler : I am going to assume the NEO will run into the same problem we have with our A321s, and not like the A330 at all. The range problem is not what the a
170 RayChuang : I think the A321neo's are aimed specifically for service from HNL to other Pacific islands--they'll let the widebody fleet handle flights to the US ma
171 RWA380 : When in HNL last month, we ran into many Aussies stating Hawaii was a bargain, and they were doing lots of shopping. No you are not the only one, I j
172 Post contains images BoeingGuy : I'm not aware that HA has announced that SJC will go to a narrow-body yet. That's speculation. Besides, you might prefer that AS 738. You would have
173 n471wn : I disagree----these are destined to take on AS and soon WN!!
174 wn676 : We have two ACTs on our 321s and can take a full load of pax and all of their bags when the tanks are full. With a Hawaii flight you'd probably see a
175 HAL : Sorry, but that just isn't going to happen - especially with up to 25 coming. The 767's are going away, and HA needs aircraft to replace them, especi
176 mariner : So you're saying PPG is out? mariner
177 Post contains images astuteman : That's the point I think. There seems to be some debate about the A321NEO's ability to reliably reach HNL from origins "substantially" inland. Worth
178 HAL : For the 321? Yes, my guess is that it's out. The PPG flights have, um, 'special' passenger weights assigned to them, along with massive amounts of ba
179 ferpe : That is a good move by HA as the cost per trip and the cost per seat will decrease. I can only postulate the fuel cost difference between a 767-300 a
180 ytz : The debate on here is over the top. HA doesn't have any 757s to replace to begin with. They've got many more A332s on the way. Sufficient to replace t
181 Post contains images EPA001 : And they are pretty convincing to me. . Could not agree more with you on this one.
182 ytz : Don't get this argument at all. Multiple 321NEO runs offer more capacity and more frequencies (and hence choice). How is this a downgauge? HA has a d
183 mariner : That's a pity - it seems ideal for the route. I guess the schedule can be changed by the time the A321Neo comes along. Or I guess Hawaiian could open
184 ytz : I would think that they might be better off using a 321NEO thrice a week than 763 twice a week. Heck, if there's enough cargo, maybe even a daily run
185 HAL : HA's 767 have a seating capacity from 252 to 264, with most of them in the 259 - 264 range. Load factors are high on the west coast routes, so the pl
186 Post contains images lightsaber : I keep coming back to this thread as I'm very excited as to what HA could do with the NEO! There are a tremendous number of west coast cities as well
187 mariner : That would be my guess. I think the Samoas would be about it for South Pacific service. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong, but I think HNL-NAN is a
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