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Argentina's President Goes Charter Again  
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 942 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7524 times:
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Source Wall Street Journal

Amid fears country's creditors will seize her Boeing 757 (Tango 01), the Argentina's president will charter again for a trip to Asia and the Mid East.... She will use the U.K based charter company she also used in 2010 and 2011.

Looks like Chapman Freeborn can provide you with any long-range business jet you want, BBJs, 757, 747s, G-Vs, Globals..

(Obviously a G-V and/or Global Express is out of the question, she will have lots of entourage with her)

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7439 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
She will use the U.K based charter company she also used in 2010 and 2011.

I'd suppose Mrs Fernandez Kirshner wouldn't dare to be caught flying a Falkland/Malvinas registred UK owned aircraft from that company.
That would really make such controversial piece of news.
Aren't any reliable South American business jet charter companies?
Why Brazilian Embraer didn't jump to the opportunity to fly Argentina's president around on one of its jets?



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1631 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7393 times:
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Argentina is getting everything it deserves with this meglamanic

User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7204 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2):
Argentina is getting everything it deserves with this meglamanic

Please explain for those who are not familiar with Argentine politics


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 942 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7032 times:
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Quoting bobnwa (Reply 3):

The "vulture bonds" as the Argentinian government calls them.... hedge funds want their money back, in full. she won't pay them.

They seized an Argentinian Navy ship in Ghana a few months back... She fears they might take her private 757 and have to fly back to Argentina on the airlines, like the rest of us....

" fly on the airlines, NOOOOOOH, the humanity"


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3061 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6771 times:

Hopefully not too far OT, but does anyone know what plane this was?



President Arturo Frondizi at MSY December 23, 1961.

http://i50.tinypic.com/30acppj.png



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineLofty From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6743 times:

Is she allowed to use a UK company. Maybe the Sun will take out a news paper advert with photos of her boarding a UK plane.

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6743 times:

That was a truely British aircraft, a De Havilland Comet

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 1):
I'd suppose Mrs Fernandez Kirshner wouldn't dare to be caught flying a Falkland/Malvinas registred UK owned aircraft

Chapman freeborn is a broker, they do not have own aircraft. They can provide anything from a biz jet to a 747, which she probably needs to carry the shopping bags back home
 



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1657 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6728 times:

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 5):
does anyone know what plane this was?

View Large View Medium
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Photo © John F. Ciesla




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User currently offline757gb From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6689 times:

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 5):

I could be wrong, but I think AR used to have Comets back then:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lineas_Argentinas_Comet_Groves.jpg



God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6138 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6574 times:
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Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
(Obviously a G-V and/or Global Express is out of the question, she will have lots of entourage with her)

From What I´ve read, she´s getting a Global Exrpress. Her entourage on said plane will consist of the very basic one a head of state uses in these types of trip. The usual rest, is going on an AR A340 charter. Everybody has their panties in a knot in Buenos Aires for doing business this way with a British company. Frankly, it´s incoherent, if not dwonright schizophrenic. She will be visiting Cuba too, and as of yesterday, Venezuela, for Chavez´s "virtual" swearing into office.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 5):
Hopefully not too far OT, but does anyone know what plane this was?

That´s a Comet IV of AR.



MGGS
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 942 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6170 times:
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Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
From What I´ve read, she´s getting a Global Exrpress

WOW, from Argentina to the Middle East, then onto Asia on a Global Express? If she's got more than 8 people, after 10 hours in the air, things might get crowed

My experience, for flights in excess of 12 hours, the Globals and Gulfstreams are comfortable if the number of passengers is 8 or less

Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
Everybody has their panties in a knot in Buenos Aires for doing business this way with a British company.

She accuses England of this, that, and the other, then charters a British Global Express?? hum, what's wrong with this scenario?

She could have very easily found a Brazilian or Mexican G-V and/or Global for charter.

[Edited 2013-01-08 11:42:17]

User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6138 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5455 times:
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Quoting g500 (Reply 11):
She accuses England of this, that, and the other, then charters a British Global Express?? hum, what's wrong with this scenario?

Not only that. She´s getting grief by the way the contract was assigned. Apparently without any proper bidding. Still, while she and the Argentine biggest media group are in a state of war, she does not help herself by these decisions. You can´t send an official letter to the British Prime Minister complaining about the Malvinas not being returned, and in that same week hire a British company to provide you with transportation services.



MGGS
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4086 times:

Chapman Freeborn is an international charter broker for passenger and cargo aircraft. They have an office in Argentina and the way they are set up this might well be an Argentinian company owned by an Argentinian with a franchise to operate under that name.

The aircraft itself can be on any register, I doubt that Mrs. Presidente will trabvel on a G registered aircraft



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinegonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

This woman is a real embarrassment for her country. She talks about dignity and sovereignty, and must travel around the world like a fugitive. It will be nice if one of the hedge funds also could seize her collection of Louis Vouitton purses and jewels. I honestly can not understand how an educated people like the Argeninians can be ruled by this woman, a case of sociological study without any doubt.

Personally I think the owner of the jet she will fly, should make a detailed list of every single thing on board, and make a careful inspection after she is out of the plane to check everything is in its right place...

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 942 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1660 times:
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Does anybody know the reg of that Global Epress? It would be interesting to see if she stops in Paris for a shopping spree.

Can a Global Express do Buenos Aires-Middle East (probably an Emirate) non-stop?


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8414 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1548 times:

Quoting gonzalo (Reply 14):
I honestly can not understand how an educated people like the Argeninians can be ruled by this woman, a case of sociological study without any doubt.

Is the US so different? Oh I forgot, we're not that educated. We also don't pay our bills... from a behavioral point of view. Of course we can print money, because we are the USA.


User currently onlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4300 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Quoting gonzalo (Reply 14):
honestly can not understand how an educated people like the Argeninians can be ruled by this woman, a case of sociological study without any doubt.

Given I know that you hold personal animus against Argentina, I hold your statements about my country with two "pinzas", but since you made a logical, educated, and respectul post I will answer you.

This may come as a shock, but the Kirchner government has actually convinced me that their "debt" strategy is the right one, even if it is inconvenient at times. This is why: The "capitalist" system needs checks and balances. If borrowers suffer no consequences from bad borrowing, then no one would lend, right? If lenders suffered no consquences for bad lending, they would just play with everyone's money, right? I think we can all agree on that.

Thus, I understand the purpose of "vulture" funds: in the general sense, they are a market mechanism to help insure that lenders or investors have som protection from cases like Argentina, Russia, etc. This is why in discussions with other people I explain to them why vulture funds exist.

However, in the last 6 years since the North American/European financial crisis, we've seen lenders protected at all costs, bailout after bailout, monetary easing after another. That only encourages further improper lending. Banks believe they are too big, and thus make massive risks with everyone's money knowing that if they precipitate a financial crisis, the desperation of the time will force politicians to bail them out, again.

That is just as unhealthy as borrowers being bailed out by the IMF (as were the Asian countries in 1997, including South Korea, Indonesia, Thailand, Phillipines, etc; or Mexico in 1994, Brazil 1999, Russia 1998, Turkey 2002). That encouraged other countries to borrow without regards (Greece), and now we are seeing the results.

The difference with Argentina? It was not bailed out by the IMF or anyone, unlike all the other countries. Thus, it has to answer to no one when it comes to the debt issue, except the creditors. Which is why this has gone on for 12 years and there is little the rest of the world can do about it.

And in fact it is GOOD. You know why? Because it balances things out a bit. It makes lenders cautious again. Something the developed world could have used during the 2000s real estate and sovereign debt bubbles.

So Argentina is a "vulture borrower" of sorts. And if you think about it in that sense, it helps keep the market lenders honest, just like vulture lenders help keep borrowes honest. The ultimate solution would be to end bailouts for borrowers and lenders, and let the chips fall where they may in each specific case.

And also break up banks into smaller units that cannot, if one fails, systemically endanger the whole.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently onlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2762 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1395 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR

This thread has turned political instead of about the charter. The thread will be locked to future posts.
Thanks
Blue



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