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Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!  
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1105 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13221 times:

AA rumor mill reports this is official! Due to 763 issues and to back-up reliability of longhaul flying, AA says 763s allocated to SDQ/STI runs will be used as spare aircrafts. Hard to understand this rationale, B6 changed JFK-Dominican Republic market however isn't JFK an AA "cornerstone" city? Seems odd to cancel these markets. Most likely yields might be low due VFR travelers but why cancel and not adjust with smaller airplanes? AA will most likely not announce any decision regarding merger tomorrow during Board of Directors meeting, some rumors around that AA and B6 are also talking...anything is possible.

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2963 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13191 times:

Time to bring back the A300...   


Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2797 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12990 times:

This would hardly be the most shocking cut AA has made in recent years...

These markets would still be served via MIA. The aircraft and JFK slots could be freed up for other, higher yielding purposes. Gone are the days when AA dominated the NYC-Dominican Republic realm. CO gave up on the EWR-STI route back in '08, UA still flies EWR-SDQ today. Then there is direct competition from both DL and B6 on the JFK-STI and JFK-SDQ routes as well... Although AA had historic dominance on the routes, B6 has become the market leader and DL appears to be holding its own...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12930 times:

I don't know why AA can't really develop their JFK hub. The demand is there and B6 seems to be so successful in JFK.

User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1105 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12815 times:

Puzzling why AA didn't try with 757 or 738 before chopping these all together! :O

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16931 posts, RR: 48
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12723 times:

Quoting justinlee (Reply 3):
I don't know why AA can't really develop their JFK hub. The demand is there and B6 seems to be so successful in JFK.


JFK Caribbean is almost entirely vfr/leisure and highly price sensitive. The lowest cost carrier will win the day, and that's not AA, nor DL for that matter.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12567 times:

Quoting PRAirbus (Thread starter):

The rumor mill reports are official????


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12403 times:
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What is so great about AA flying to Santo Domingo. If it doesn't fit into the new AA strategy let it go to JetBlue.

User currently offlinekjfk527 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 11715 times:

I remember when I first became a supervisor from AA I was promoted to oversee the ticket counters at JFK. I had come from LGA where you had 3 types of passengers, corporate executives traveling to ORD/DFW/BNA/RDU/YYZ familes traveling to MCO/FLL and the snowbirds traveling to PBI/TPA.....

When I was promoted to supervisor at JFK I was pretty much told here's a radio, a copy of the ticket counter employee manning, head down to Area B and oversee the Caribbean check-ins. Talk about a culture shock....Between the Domincan Republic flights, the Haiti flights, Barbados, Jamaica, Turks and Caicos, it was absolute chaos.

If I remember correctly, I believe we had 3 SDQ flights, 605, 619, and 635, two STI flights, (can't recall the flight numbers) a PUJ flight, and LRM flight. The SDQ and STI flights were operated with A300s which was bulked out from cargo space almost everyday and the PUJ and LRM flight was operated with a 757. This was just the morning bank, if I remember correctly we also had two afternoon/evening SDQ flights one at 15:00 and the other at around 18:45.

It is crazy to think back to those days and look at what has happened to AA on the JFK-Caribbean market.

From my memory the morning departures looked something like this:

JFK - SDQ A300 5x daily flt #s 605, 619 and 635 (morning departures)
STI A300 2x daily
MBJ 757 1 daily (2x seasonal) flt #1193
PUJ 757 1 daily
LRM 757 1 daily

BGI 757 1daily flt #1385
PLS 757 1 daily flt #1015
KIN 757 1 daily
BDA 767 2 daily flt #686 (am departure)
GCM 757 1 daily (seasonal)
SXM 757 1 daily flt # 667
AUA 757 1 daily flt #796
PAP A300 1 daily (2x daily seasonal) flt #837?

We can even throw CUN in there with 1 daily A300.

JFK was a beast, with the Caribbean departures in the morning.....You also have to had the flights to SJU they had as well. Those were also all A300 which checked in at Terminal 9 ticketing area D.

It's sad to see what has happened over the years.


User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11419 times:

It's official. Will make separate post. SJU hub is pretty much gone.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/09/aa-sju-apr13/

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineSurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2797 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10981 times:

Quoting kjfk527 (Reply 8):

I don't know about sad, those were the days before B6.. It cost a lot more for people to visit family and friends or take vacations to the Caribbean back then - since AA had a monopoly on most routes. Of course, back then the legacies probably never thought an LCC would fly international, especially to a VFR non-leisure market like STI. Today is the result of B6's success, and other carriers like NK and FL (soon WN) offer cheap connections..



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineairjamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10020 times:

MBJ 757 1 daily (2x seasonal) flt #1193

KIN 757 1 daily [/quote]


AA had quite a history with their New York - Jamaica route back in the day. At times the B767s/A300s were used quite frequently to both KIN and MBJ. 645 used to route JFK-MBJ-KIN-JFK at times, and at other times it did JFK-KIN-JFK, while 1193/1190 did JFK-MBJ-JFK nonstop.


[quote=jfk777 (Reply 7):
What is so great about AA flying to Santo Domingo. If it doesn't fit into the new AA strategy let it go to JetBlue. [/quote]


Not too surprised at this move by AA. Obviously they are focusing their Caribbean flights out of MIA, and leaving the bulk of the JFK-Caribbean legs to B6.

[Edited 2013-01-09 06:29:44]

[Edited 2013-01-09 06:33:35]


greenheart
User currently offlinedeltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8867 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9816 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 9):
It's official. Will make separate post. SJU hub is pretty much gone.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/09/aa-sju-apr13/

'902

I'm not able to book any of the SJU ATR flights for random summer dates but JFK-STI/SDQ are still bookable...


User currently offlineMaddogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9502 times:

Talk about a fall from grace. AA used to have a total lock on the Caribbean from JFK as mentioned by kjfk527, now look at them, it's a shell of its former self. Man how the times have changed. Good riddance though, it was a miserable operation. Some of my worst flying experiences have been aboard AA to and from the Carribean. They had a great thing in that operation and they squandered it by not keeping up with the times and the competition.

User currently offlines4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8927 times:

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 12):
I'm not able to book any of the SJU ATR flights for random summer dates but JFK-STI/SDQ are still bookable...

ATR flying out of SJU will stop on 3/31/13.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5065 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8797 times:

I remember a former boss of mine telling me that there was a crash of an AA 727 at STI in the mid 70s. Apparently, it ran off the end of the runway and crashed into a building, killing more than half of those on board. At the time, the runway was less than 5000 feet.

The government blasted part of a mountain, so that the runway could be lengthened to 7000 feet. That way, jets of any size could fly in and out of STI to just about anywhere on the East Coast.


User currently offlinePresRDC From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8750 times:

So is EIS dropping from the system altogether?

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2879 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8660 times:

Quoting PresRDC (Reply 16):
So is EIS dropping from the system altogether?

Looks like DOM and EIS are dropping. I assume SLU is also.


User currently offlineidlewildchild From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8443 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 15):
I remember a former boss of mine telling me that there was a crash of an AA 727 at STI in the mid 70s. Apparently, it ran off the end of the runway and crashed into a building, killing more than half of those on board. At the time, the runway was less than 5000 feet.

The government blasted part of a mountain, so that the runway could be lengthened to 7000 feet. That way, jets of any size could fly in and out of STI to just about anywhere on the East Coast.

THe crash was at STT, not STI and yes, it was a 727 and I was working for AA at the time in NYC reservations. In my next job at AF I got friendly with a survivor of the crash. It was a very bad crash with the pilot trying to land a few times before finally touching down past the line and then attempting a go-around way too late and slamming into the gas station at the end of the runway.

One of the saddest things was the lead F/A, it was her retirement flight after 35+ years and it was a trip trade.

It seems like the Trans-Caribbean acquisition now is complete, meaning SJU as major hub is over and things go to Miami. Makes me sad to think about SDQ and D.R. going away from JFK. Then again, AA makes me sad, period.


User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2300 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8388 times:

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 18):
One of the saddest things was the lead F/A, it was her retirement flight after 35+ years and it was a trip trade.

It seems like the Trans-Caribbean acquisition now is complete, meaning SJU as major hub is over and things go to Miami. Makes me sad to think about SDQ and D.R. going away from JFK. Then again, AA makes me sad, period.


Very sad indeed. A former Trans Caribbean flight attendant lost his wife, and son in that crash. He remained with AA for many years, until retiring about 2 years ago. There are still a few remaining former Trans Caribbean folks at AA. All very senior.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineLGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1137 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8042 times:

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 12):
I'm not able to book any of the SJU ATR flights for random summer dates but JFK-STI/SDQ are still bookable...

I work for another carrier (not AA) and in my carrier's CRS (Central Reservations System) all the ATR SJU flying is zero-ed out meaning schedules are still there but not available for sale but JFK-SDQ/STI still are available for sale so perhaps the JFK-SDQ/STI dropping is not set in stone.

I think one of the main reasons AA still uses the 763 for these routes and not the 757 or 738 is the large amount of cargo which I would think is profitable. Even though B6 has much larger share of the passenger market now in these two city-pairs there are a lot of things you can transport in the belly of a 767 that you cannot in an A-320 (or 738 or 757 for that matter) so as someone who really hopes AA does continue these markets I still will believe when I see a press release and hope I don't.

Cheers

LGA777


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2879 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7942 times:

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 18):
It seems like the Trans-Caribbean acquisition now is complete, meaning SJU as major hub is over and things go to Miami.

So Trans-Caribbean is now in the same category as TWA, Air Cal and Reno Air.


User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2239 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7029 times:

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 20):
so perhaps the JFK-SDQ/STI dropping is not set in stone.

The company formally announced the cancellation yesterday to employees. My understanding is updates to the CRS usually occur on Saturday night. Now why they haven't at least zeroed out the flights like ATR flying at SJU is anyone's guess. But alas the company has formally said they'll be discontinued April 1. Shocking, but then again, not.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1105 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6837 times:

Why not try the route with smaller jets and cancel it all together? The "spares excuse" doesn't seem credible unless AA is working something with B6!

User currently offlineLGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1137 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6692 times:

Thanks qqflyboy for the very disappointing update. Perhaps the future new management team will re-instate it in the future but not likely. To bad they couldn't at least run it seasonally in Summer and Christmas time when demand is so high a fare that is profitable can be charged and still fill the aircraft.

LGA777


25 mah4546 : When AA emerges from BK, a lot of old flying is going to come back. Not saying JFKSDQ/STI will, but we are naturally going to see old stations and ro
26 Post contains images OB1504 : The 763 also replaced the AB6 on routes out of MIA where the additional cargo capacity is needed. At least their network managed to last nearly forty
27 jfklganyc : They're not emerging stand alone. There are no guarantees anything comes back. More importantly, there are no guarantees that JFK or NYC stays a corn
28 AJMIA : This is what I hope and am thinking too, but you are right, JFK-SDQ/STI probably wont come back because they are dropping it so close to the end of t
29 BarryH : AA bas the best revenue management people and tools in the industry. Most of what are considered "best practices" today came from AA. That includes ma
30 runway23 : I'm actually ready to bet that NYC will stay a cornerstone for AA regardless of whether a merger happens or not. There are too many corporate contrac
31 jfklganyc : Barry, I appreciate your assessment. As someone who worked there through much of the 2000s, I heard statements like this a lot. Truth is, AA hasnt led
32 STT757 : B6 is going to need bigger planes to support all this extra traffic they're picking up left and right.
33 panamair : Delta recently also bumped up their JFK-SDQ/STI nonstops to 2x daily from 1x daily; JFK-STI is 1x 73H; 1x 757; while JFK-SDQ is 2x 73H.
34 MaverickM11 : This is probably the third or fourth time they've done that before pulling out--I don't know who they think they're fooling or what they think is goi
35 AVENSAB727 : It doesnt mean they will pull out. They could be adjusting the route.
36 tommy767 : Somehow I doubt this.
37 AA767400 : That's weird since Malev is now gone. I don't know if it feasible, I mean DL barely operates it 3 months out of the year?
38 mah4546 : DL doesn't operate it at all.
39 xkorpyoh : That is really unbelievable. AA used to "own" the DR and had so much power over the airports' politics in the island. It is hard to imagine that they
40 enilria : They are definitely talking, but about what? A merger, a code share, One World, acquisition of AA's LGA slots? I suspect it is not a merger...YET. I
41 deltairlines : The capacity has stuck around for nearly a full year (it started flying last February) and is showing no signs of pullback. Though for most days of w
42 AA767400 : Thanks for the correction oracle.
43 MaverickM11 : I think they're trying to stay in the market just out of brute strength/longevity. They still generally have a discount to other carriers on the same
44 klwright69 : Really? Like which gems will AA bring back? ORD-DEL? I know that legacy carriers have suffered somewhat on flights from NYC to the Caribbean, due to
45 mah4546 : Delhi returning as a station would not shock me at all. Nor would a resumption of, say, JFKBRU, ORDFRA and/or JFKFRA, re-opening Osaka and Barranquil
46 jsnww81 : As a long-suffering American FF at ORD, this would make me very happy. It seems like every day I read about yet another mainline destination being ha
47 Post contains links xkorpyoh : So it is official: JFK-SDQ & JFK-STI cancelled after April 1st. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/01...rom-new-york-to-dominican-capital/
48 tommy767 : CO never flew widebodies on a scheduled basis to SJU.
49 Post contains links STT757 : They absolutely did: From the April 2, 1995 OAG EWR-SJU (CO) 2 727, 1 A300. http://www.departedflights.com/EWR95p6.html
50 Post contains images PRAirbus : Perhaps AA is working on a deeper codeshare agreement w/B6 on some Caribbean markets. Isn't JFK a "cornerstone" city for AA; it would make sense to ad
51 STT757 : Not if they are losing money. AA is using Chapter 11 to reorganize, AA has been using this reorganization to figure out where they are making money a
52 tommy767 : OK back in 1995 -- not in the last 10 years. It's mostly been 738s.
53 STT757 : Correct, also I think there were a couple instances where a DC-10 was scheduled during certain holidays during the late '90s. Nothing daily though. I
54 LAXdude1023 : Why would it make sense to add markets that lose money?
55 PRAirbus : Well, if AA costs are now lower they should be able to operate markets (SDQ/STI) that DL flies from JFK. AA should have a larger customer base in Domi
56 LAXdude1023 : It doesnt matter much the costs, those are trash yield markets. Thats why the A300 was so perfect on them. Lots to fill the trunk, nothing to fill up
57 mah4546 : That suggests the flights were empty. Flights were always packed. And you don't need much mass at JFK for these markets, which are each in excess of
58 MaverickM11 : DL is by no means doing better--their fares are lower and LF lighter
59 STT757 : No, that suggests they can't muscle out their competition by overwhelming them similar to what UA is currently doing to VX at EWR. I have no doubt AA
60 LAXdude1023 : Yeah, but to be fare UA and VX are competeing for a high yield and high mass market EWR (NYC)-SFO/LAX. NYC-Domincan Republic has niether that amount
61 mah4546 : What other examples other than Caribbean/Florida can you give me? There's Brussels - AA failed there - but where else? JFKMAN where AA kicked Delta o
62 klwright69 : Yes, CO flew widebobies to SJU in the 90's. I did not mention the decade. I guess some of us are such old foggies. I wonder if UA is secetly thinking
63 chepos : I highly doubt it, EWR is considered a hub in the UAL system and basically the only hub in the UAL system that can support an SDQ flight. That flight
64 STT757 : Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Oakland, Long Beach, San Jose, IAD.
65 jfklganyc : Thank you STT. What you are talking about is market relevance. And AA at JFK and NYC as a whole has less market relevance. Trash yields to DR, Florida
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