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Ex-TWA Flight Attendants Worry About US Merger  
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1662 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9528 times:

Ex-TWA flight attendants, while admitting they made some mistakes with regards to when TWA merged with AA, are now worried about what will happen if AA merges with US. From what I see, this also has a bit to do with politics, as they were looking for a legislative route, and one of the US Senators they were working with is backing off.

http://thehill.com/blogs/transportat...ther-members-to-resolve-union-flap


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9196 times:
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I don't understand why the Senate is responsible for undoing the last 12 years for these flight attendants. In addition, they're attempting to negotiate a solution in Missouri which is a de-facto right-to-work state.

User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9189 times:

Always amusing to see articles such as this - there was no "merger" between AA and TWA; AA purchased the assets of TWA. Completely different deal.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9069 times:

Make no doubt the USAA (if it happens) will lead to north of 10,000 layoffs. Virtually every member of AA management will be gone, some redundant support staff at HDQ that do not have seniority job protection, and sadly the vast majority of TW employees who have a much lower occupational seniority then company seniority.

User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9035 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 2):
I don't understand why the Senate is responsible for undoing the last 12 years for these flight attendants. In addition, they're attempting to negotiate a solution in Missouri which is a de-facto right-to-work state.

State labor laws relate little to airline employees, whose rights are defined by the Railway Labor Act.

But to your first point, you're correct- they're trying to get a live chicken from a fried and half-eaten egg.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17672 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9021 times:

This is sort of a comical vignette of what is wrong with unions--infighting, unrealistic expectations, fickle political connections... I can't believe there are any TW FAs left that think there's still an opportunity with AA.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Make no doubt the USAA (if it happens) will lead to north of 10,000 layoffs. Virtually every member of AA management will be gone, some redundant support staff at HDQ that do not have seniority job protection, and sadly the vast majority of TW employees who have a much lower occupational seniority then company seniority.

Never mind the huge reductions at US



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8938 times:

I don't think congress or the senate can resolve this TWA issue. AA was wrong for throwing TWA employees to the back of the line but AA bought TWA so they did whatever they wanted to TWA employees.

I think it will be interesting to watch this merger (if approved and it will be) because US still needs to finish merging the seniority list they already have between the East and the West. One thing is for sure once (if) this merger happens not everyone is going to be happy, ex-HP and ex-TWA employees are going to have a fight on their hands to have their voices heard against the powerful AA and US employees.


User currently offlinemichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8689 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 7):
I don't think congress or the senate can resolve this TWA issue. AA was wrong for throwing TWA employees to the back of the line but AA bought TWA so they did whatever they wanted to TWA employees.

From the article, it appears that it was the APFA that had them stapled to the bottom of the list, not AA itself. I doubt AA much cared how the TWA FA's were integrated. More likely, it was the AA FA's that wanted them at the bottom.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9558 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8644 times:

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Thread starter):

Well duh, Clearly the APFA is going to be more than willing to sell them right up the river, again, if they get the chance.

Never mind for the rest...I wont even go there.

[Edited 2013-01-09 09:19:23]


yep.
User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8623 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):

How many F/A's do you think would be furloughed? I'm asking because the new airline would have roughly the same amount of planes and also usually the F/A contract will stipulate that there can be no furloughs as a result of the merger.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8418 times:

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 9):
How many F/A's do you think would be furloughed?

Isn't AA currently hiring F/As or will be in the very near future? The n00bies would be the first to go in the event of furloughs as they'd have less seniority than the ex-TW F/As. That's assuming there'd be furloughs in the first place, which is far from a short thing. And that's also completely ignoring the US side of the house in such an event.



PHX based
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8137 times:

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 9):
How many F/A's do you think would be furloughed? I'm asking because the new airline would have roughly the same amount of planes and also usually the F/A contract will stipulate that there can be no furloughs as a result of the merger.

Way to early to tell. Even IF a merger were announced today, it would be 18-24 months before the slightest hint of integration would occurr. IF and WHEN that happens you can bet the new management team be it AA or US will want to lower costs, and have junior employees. So almost 99% sure more buyouts will be offered to get the more senior workforce out, then that will lead to less layoffs.

Ya never know what will happen down the road.  


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6496 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7930 times:

Quoting sccutler (Reply 2):
Always amusing to see articles such as this - there was no "merger" between AA and TWA; AA purchased the assets of TWA. Completely different deal.


Whether it was a merger or a purchase it was still an underhanded way to handle the TW employees by moving them all to the bottom of the seniority lists


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17672 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7835 times:

Quoting michman (Reply 7):
From the article, it appears that it was the APFA that had them stapled to the bottom of the list, not AA itself.

AA couldn't have anything to do with it by contract; it was the APFA and only them. Always helping out their union brethren 



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7812 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 12):
Whether it was a merger or a purchase it was still an underhanded way to handle the TW employees by moving them all to the bottom of the seniority lists

AA could have done nothing and sent them all the the unemployment line when TW filed CH7


User currently offlineYYZBound From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7775 times:

BTW...we at Reno Air were ALSO put at the bottom of the seniority list at AA...and I don't remember anyone feeling terribly sorry for us

...after two failed lawsuits of our own, we've moved on just fine and have lived happy, fulfilled lives


User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 11):

Exactly. I don't really see what the former TWA flight attendants are worrying about since the majority of the layoffs would most likely be at the c-suite level and at headquarters. Perhaps reservations would see some 'synergies' as well.


User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7581 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 14):

I agree AA could have let all TWA employees join the unemployment line but they didn't and since they didn't some of TWA's ex-senior flight attendants have been fighting ever since to have their seniority honored. And in an industry where seniority means everything forcing AA and the union to honor all the years they spent at TWA (something that I'm sure will never happen) could mean better lines, an increase in pay, extra weeks of vacation, all of these things and more are directly tied to an employees seniority. So I don't fault ex-TWA flight attendants for continuing to fight this battle but I agree they won't ever win this battle because although the union created this problem it is to AA's advantage (no pun intended) to see that the union wins because the alternative would cost AA money if their seniority was honored.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6977 times:

But I'm so confused. I thought unions were supposed to PROTECT your jobs!   

User currently offlinedcann40 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 12):
Whether it was a merger or a purchase it was still an underhanded way to handle the TW employees by moving them all to the bottom of the seniority lists

Why? American hired them as new employees and was generous enough to give them their pay based on TWA seniority (as well as vacation time). It's unfortunate that they had to be laid off but, for all intents and purposes, they were new employees.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5262 times:

Just as a reminder, AA didn't do anything. seniority integration is done by the unions.

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9558 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 14):
AA could have done nothing and sent them all the the unemployment line when TW filed CH7

AA had nothing to do with it. At all. Nothing. i don't get why this has to be said 200 times.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 17):
an increase in pay, extra weeks of vacation,

read above.
Oh and IIRC the TWA employees kept their seniority for Pay/Benefits. Just Line holding that they got screwed on.

Quoting catiii (Reply 18):

The APFA did protect jobs, Just AA jobs. They did a dirty thing, but at the end of the day they did what was best for its members.



yep.
User currently offlinestrangr From Australia, joined Apr 2012, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

I can not understand the relevance of EX-TWA, at what point do you turn around and say;

"Gee I've been EX-TWA for so long that maybe I want to call myself an AA employee"

Maybe it is me, but i am sure if Qantas over here had a merger chance a small right wing faction would not call themselves the EX-TAA flight crew. After all TWA went belly up in 2001 after 2 prior attempts at CH11.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4078 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 6):
I think it will be interesting to watch this merger (if approved and it will be) because US still needs to finish merging the seniority list they already have between the East and the West.

A merger with AA would expedite the process. The current stalemate would be broken - it is disingenuous to say that US needs to finish merging the seniority list when they cannot do anything to solve the situation, and when a possible merger presents an obvious fix.


User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 21):
AA had nothing to do with it. At all. Nothing. i don't get why this has to be said 200 times.

AA had nothing to do with the aquisition of TWA???? I would love to hear your explanation on this one!


25 commavia : I believe he was referring specifically to the SLI (seniority list integration) of the flight attendants, not the overall merger in general. Nonethel
26 Post contains images Deltal1011man : Well My guess is if you were the one who got screwed, to the point of majorly effecting your life by "your union" you would be complaining too. Of co
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