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Future Of Singapore Airlines And Its Strategy  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 35458 times:

With yesterdays thread about Singapore Airlines offering leaves of absence to pilots, and the fact the carrier saw its year over year flying decline 3.4% made me thing about SQ's future strategy.

Unlike much of its regional peers, SQ proper is seemingly not growing, and it looks like increasing volume of group flying will be done by its affiliate carriers in the future.

o Silk Air - Today with about 20 airplanes it for the most part operates complimentary service to SQ, but Silk has order and options for nearly 70 737NG/MAX. Certainly Silk will see massive growth potentially at the expense of SQ mainline flying in the region.
o Scoot - Small today with mere 4 777s, but SQ has stated Scoot would receive upwards of 20 787-9s previously slated for mainline SQ. Overtime growing number of Scoot markets will likely overlap today's SQ routes.
o Tiger - SQ has about 1/3rd ownership stake in the LCC and last fall teamed up Tiger with Scoot to allow for purchase joint flight itineraries. Tiger also has 30 more jets on the way in the next 3-years.

In recent years Singapore has seen a hyper competitive situation with growth of likes of Jetstar and Air Asia having set up shop, plus openskies access from airlines all over the world.

Additionally the growing poaching of historic transit traffic by competitors such as the Gulf carriers has seen SQ lose out in some markets, and has made Changi work harder to maintain its transfer hub attractiveness. For example just last week it launched a promotion of offering 40SGD credit to all transfer SQ/Silk passengers to spend at airport retailers.

Certainly Singapore Airlines is one of the industries great brands, but in someway it seems to me its been in almost a holding pattern these last few years and the luster maybe fading a bit.

So with lots of low and high end competition nibbling away, and relative high cost base, what can SQ do?


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
119 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4915 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 35569 times:

It was really only a matter of time before what has been brewing all over the world, spread to Singapore.

SQ has a flawless product, that has never been questioned. However, more and more, people are selecting an airline not by on board experience, but by price. It started with deregulation in the United States and has spread world-wide. It appears to have hit Singapore.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 35308 times:

Another problem with SQ is that now point to point connectivity in South East asia is much bigger, no need to pass via KUL or SIN to transit from A to B, and that´s thanks to low cost like Air Asia or Tiger Airways.

Business people always like to fly business but connectivity also helps a lot, we have seen this example in many more places where low cost airlines go after good business routes and start serving hubs and not only regional airports, but also regional to regional.

Singapore Airlines is in a zone where air travelling is booming and even in the medium haul they are going to suffer a lot, however they were safe in the long haul, but now the Middle East carriers are pushing really really hard, and I think they made a good move with Scoot, so they cover that market before someone else come and do for them.


User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 35211 times:

Whatever SQ does, one thing I hope is they don't abandon EWR. I know they fly to JFK, but many people located west of Manhattan detest having to schlep to JFK and there are surely business travellers in Manhattan who prefer EWR over JFK. I know this is heresy to many, but it is surely true!

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 35105 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 1):
SQ has a flawless product, that has never been questioned. However, more and more, people are selecting an airline not by on board experience, but by price.

   It's just the lifecycle of a network carrier really. Make no mistake, the same future awaits the GCC carriers as well.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1415 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 35011 times:

SQ does not offer the best price for its flights on its website. Rather, the travel agents offer prices which are almost $200-300 below what SQ advertises on its website for US-India flights. I wonder why. Many airlines now offer the best prices on their websites.

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4915 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 34808 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
It's just the lifecycle of a network carrier really. Make no mistake, the same future awaits the GCC carriers as well.

The big difference that that while the GCC carriers do offer a good product, often they are the cheapest as well. That is how they gained the advance in market share they have.

So when someone is looking at flights, they have to consciously think when looking at SQ, if they are worth the extra charged. Most on this site would say yes, however most travelers would not.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently onlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 34677 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
It's just the lifecycle of a network carrier really. Make no mistake, the same future awaits the GCC carriers as well.

Agree 100%. At some point...a state of equilibrium will be reached. I have not doubt that SQ will survive. In whatever business you are in, One must always be at the top or at the bottom of the market to survive long term, the middle market may work short term but never long term. SQ is at the top...and IMHO the GCCs are in the middle, along with folks like QF...the bottom belongs to carriers liek AirAsia.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 34665 times:

How about operating Silk Air under a unified Singapore Airlines branding?

I've always had concerns with Silk operating at an arms length to SQ.

Not only does one not always get to see joint itineraries and pricing in GDS for potential MI-SQ segments, but even the manner its treated for frequent flyer benefits is often different then SQ mainline which can dissuade people to utilize them.

It seems to me that with a diverse network that Silk has it would benefit to operate under a single brand with SQ.
Also I am sure there are some regional SQ flight could use narrowbody equipment also, either based on time of day, or to add further frequencies to destinations.



=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 34620 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):
The big difference that that while the GCC carriers do offer a good product, often they are the cheapest as well. That is how they gained the advance in market share they have.

I think that will accelerate their lifecycle, since they're not starting from a revenue premium, and will have to depend on a cost advantage more than anything.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMilesDependent From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 856 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 33957 times:

I do like the idea of combining Silk Air and Singapore Airlines. I think a big impediment to this would be the quality of the Silk Air product. While MI are a great airline, they do not have the same soft product or hard product as SQ. MI's business class is pretty ordinary, no PTVs in economy etc. I think people might be a bit cranky if they had gotten off a nice SQ flight to be transferred to an SQ 319. If it is marketed as a different airline this is less of an issue. How often do you hear people complaining about EK's 330s? And even teh business class seats on the old SQ 772s.

Re the comment around GDS, I thought SQ codeshared on almost every one of MI's flights?

As for SQ's strategy, I like what they are doing with Scoot and Tiger. I don't really see another way forward, except better partner integration with some other Star airlines. SQ seem to play on their own more so than most alliance partners.

SQ is a truly wonderful airline. Having flown 70-80 sectors with them across all classes (well, not F long haul unfortunately), I've never really had a bad experience. I will always pay a premium to fly SQ.


User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 33760 times:

I think SQ no longer is the pacesetter they once were. Back in the early 70s when the bi-national Malaysia-Singapore Airlines split into the present day SQ and MH I read that SQ was the first carrier to offer full meals in Y and they made a name for themselves with a very consistent standard of service. Also at that time, I think their business model- having no domestic routes and competing on quality (since they cant compete on price) was fairly new but they showed how it could work. I cannot substantiate this but I believe that a lot of EK's model was based on the success of SQ.

But I don't find that brand awareness strong with people in their early to mid 20s here in Singapore or in Europe.

Today's consumers are more price-sensitive and less loyal. SQ can never offer the insanely low trans-atlantic fares QR and EK offer so I think the only way is to reposition them as the creme de la creme.

Their spend on catering has been declining. SQ too has been cost-c utting. What if they offered far better meals in Y and J with the strength of their ground services in SIN? Perhaps doubling their spend on catering. And launch a bold campaign to communicate this. Beyond the Singapore Girls ads, if they got word out that for flights longer than 3 hours out of SIN, you get a two course meal on Y in SQthat looks almost like J on other airlines, I've sure that can be a big draw.

Something more extrinsic and salient like this could strengthen the brand. But of course they should never get rid of the charming Singapore Girls ads too.

And my friends in SQ always tell me how they have too many PPS pax (their high-end loyalty program that requires a yearly S25k spend in J/Y on SQ metal for qualification). I found this strange. I have never heard of a company complaining about having too many loyal customers. I think they should beef up the value of this program. Probably more tie ups with restaurants, magazines and other services for exclusive discounts and promotions.. something that'll make you want to keep your PPS card with you where ever you go and get pax to want to qualify for PPS whether its on their own accord or persuading their corporate agents to use SQ.

So basically I think SQ still has a strong brand value and that's something they need to capitalise on and re-establish, boldly, to stay competitive. I've observed that in many countries in Asia where you don't have as big a middle class and instead find larger high-income and low-income groups, SQ is a strong status symbol. In India, China and Indonesian particularly. I've met so many wealthy Indonesians who tell me they would only fly SQ- no matter what.

[Edited 2013-01-09 23:29:21]

User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 33732 times:

SQ became a dominant player on the Kangaroo route (Oz-Europe), have the advantage over Oz and European carriers of having a hub centrally located. Now the shoe is on the other foot, with M.E. carriers playing SQ's own game and often better. EK, EY and QR are eating into what SQ took from QF and BA. Only way forward is to make 'the cake' bigger.


When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 31465 times:

Good question... I think it is a bit unclear right now, even to them... On a financial level, Scoot does not seem to be meeting the expectations and it comes as no surprise too. Scoot's model appears somewhat flawed - and SQ has willingly let it overlap own network without much differentiation. While the intention may have been to compete against the LCCs on SIN-BKK, I won't be surprised if Scoot has stolen some pax share from its parent.
The only real answer for SQ's situation is to grow Tiger in Southeast Asia, build up Silk and use its cost base to operate 3-8hr routes (OS - Tyrolean type agreement) and save the long-haul.
AirAsia X in its previous form would not have had a major on SQ as it was largely following a point to point model with little hub activity. However the launch of Scoot prompted D7 to intensify its activity and it will now be quite hard for Scoot to replicate the same without eating into SQ's revenues .



The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8232 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 31314 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
It's just the lifecycle of a network carrier really.

   I agree entirely. SQ has been here many times before. This is not the first time they are laying off staff to cope with weaker demand.

Quoting infinit (Reply 11):
I think SQ no longer is the pacesetter they once were.

I disagree.

Quoting infinit (Reply 11):
I cannot substantiate this but I believe that a lot of EK's model was based on the success of SQ.

How can you say that SQ is no longer the pace setter and on the same paragraph say that EK has based a lot of its business model on SQ? EK wants to be SQ but they're not there yet. Maybe they will achieve that. Maybe they won't. Only time will tell.
At the end of the day SQ is, and always will be a niche carrier while EK is an airline for the masses. I think SQ understands that they will never be able to achieve the global reach of EK, due to their inherent geographic location. Likewise for 99% of the airlines of this world. What SQ can be is the best airline on the routes and markets that they compete in.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 31133 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 11):
I cannot substantiate this but I believe that a lot of EK's model was based on the success of SQ.

The DXB model is based on SIN, but the SQ/EK models are just a simple hub and spoke model based on none other than US carriers that originated the model



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinetrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 556 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 31075 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 1):
SQ has a flawless product, that has never been questioned.

NO airline has a "flawless product that has never been questioned" - way too strong a claim! No airline is perfect...
For example, the SQ medium haul business class seats are still not fully 'flat', which would be a noticeable and appreciated improvement on overnight flights to/from Australia.


User currently offline787Kq From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 30884 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):
The big difference that that while the GCC carriers do offer a good product, often they are the cheapest as well. That is how they gained the advance in market share they have.

Agree with the above.

However, who says SQ can't be cost competitive? Is it more expensive to offer good service? Many of the legacy carriers died due to agreements that made them to pay high wages, have sometimes ludicrous work rules, etc., similar to what happened in Detroit. I agree that price is the main factor and if better service provided at that price, travellers will chose that option.


User currently offlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 30866 times:

Whilst SQ may have lost its position as a leader on the Kangaroo route, there are still abundant opportunities for them to grow by connecting markets closer to home.

Singapore sits smack in the middle of one of the worlds most rapidly developing regions - ASEAN. Trade between these nations will undoubtedly burgeon in the years to come, and open skies, which comes into effect from 2015, will help for sure. SQ has a unique opportunity to become the carrier of choice for global investors who will flock to countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Myanmar and Vietnam, and of course, India and China. SIN is poised to become a perfect gateway to welcome them.

I think the management recognize this, and have embarked on capitalizing on the opportunity by making sure Silk Air is prepared. Their large order of narrowbodys will penetrate several new, smaller markets, feeding passengers to SIA's European, North American and Oceania bound 777's and A380's. SQ will of course upgauge equipment and fly their own metal to larger regional centers when the time comes, RGN for example.

At the same time, they have also positioned themselves to benefit from ASEAN's growing middle class. Tiger will carry holidaymakers to destinations around Asia, and Scoot to places further afield.

Of course, at its core, SIA will still have a very loyal client base who will continue to fly them from Europe to Australia even at a premium price. The Middle Eastern airlines will continue to gobble the high volume, low yielding segment which SQ doesn't particularly care for anyway.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 29979 times:

Also one thing I have noted over the years observing SQ both publicly and behind the scenes is that the company mainline is seemingly becoming ever more conservative and shying away from risk. While things are often over studied into minute detail, the enterprise is often slow to act. Somewhat akin to a lumbering Japanese company.

Seems like all the risk and outside the box creative thinking is done by the Scoot and Tiger teams while mainline keeps plugging along with the same old.

While SQ is certainly one the great brands in the industry, it no longer even holds the title of being the only local game in town with Singapore becoming a growing battle ground.


I recall reading a story last year that SQ focus would be more on the Asia Pacific region and growing its intra-region flying including links to Australia. I would believe if this is the long term path then Silk and its narrow body fleet would be the key player in making this happen. If so might be even more imperative to unify the brands.

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 10):
Re the comment around GDS, I thought SQ codeshared on almost every one of MI's flights?

No not at all. Even go look on SQ own website and they often shows flights using the MI code.

Besides flights not showing up nicely in GDS as single carrier segment, it seems MI-SQ have not been very good about pricing jointly either. With MI serving so many cities across Asia, you would think they would have filed and made available unified pricing to SQ markets - or atleast the larger ones.

Imo its sad to see when my colleague the other day was looking for flights, had his Virgin Australia BNE-SYD segment show as codeshare with SQ code, but his Silk segment remained MI coded.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 29882 times:

With TZ and MI on one end and their superb premium products priced accordingly on the other end, SQ seems to be grabbing both ends of the market. With the developmemt of so mamy nations, SQ seems to be targeting and capturing both the growing price-sensitive but periatetic middle classes and the new rich. I applaud them.

I'm surprised that SQ's strange relationship with *A hasn't been discussed more here. Is SQ's general non-cooperation a sound strategy or a dangerous arrogance? CX and KE are in a respective, though not as extreme, position in their respective alliances.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 29732 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 20):
With TZ and MI on one end and their superb premium products priced accordingly on the other end,

You might be confused - MI is Silk Air, a rather regular conventional airline.

SQ even calls MI a "premium" airline
SilkAir, a wholly owned subsidiary of Singapore Airlines, is one of Asia’s leading regional carriers.
Positioned as a premium short- to medium-haul carrier, it operates across Asia, serving both leisure and business travellers alike.


LCC carriers in the family are Scoot(TZ) and Tiger Airways(TR).



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24906 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 29687 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
With MI serving so many cities across Asia, you would think they would have filed and made available unified pricing to SQ markets - or atleast the larger ones.

Perhaps they have enough higher-yield O&D demand and don't need the longhaul connections which would be competing with many other options with fares probably even undercutting fares to/from SIN. What are MI's average load factors?


User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 610 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 29429 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
What are MI's average load factors?

76% (FY2012)

Here is a very interesting, detailed analysis of the SIA group. It covers all the topics discussed in this thread
SilkAir poised for rapid growth after quietly emerging as SIA's gem : http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...quietly-emerging-as-sias-gem-80190

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
SQ even calls MI a "premium" airline

I think it implies that it is not just low cost ! Based on my personal and anecdotical experience (flew with MI twice only), their product and service were standard, ie on par with the European legacies on medium-haul for instance.



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 29354 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
You might be confused - MI is Silk Air, a rather regular conventional airline.

I flew SIN-REP-SIN on MI two years ago, and everything was so superior to legacy carriers in the U.S.

However, MI certainly serves lower-yielding destinations than SQ itself—tourist destinations such as USM and REP, as well as secondary cities in India, China, Indonesia, etc. which don't have the same business demand as BOM, PVG, CGK, etc. Just like B6, MI is able to perform well while going for generally low-yielding traffic due to the lower costs of being a newer airline. Again, though, SQ Group (if that name even exists, but assume that it does for SQ, MI, TR, and TZ) really covers the whole gamut in terms of the yields it pursues. Venturing into low-yielding markets does not equate to bleeding money if one uses an SQ Group-like strategy of diversification.

SIN-SYD, for example, really covers the whole rainbow, from ridiculously priced SYD-SIN-LHR tickets in SQ Suites to bottom-of-the-barrel prices for less wealthy tourists on TZ.


User currently offlineairbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 29941 times:

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 12):
SQ became a dominant player on the Kangaroo route (Oz-Europe), have the advantage over Oz and European carriers of having a hub centrally located. Now the shoe is on the other foot, with M.E. carriers playing SQ's own game and often better. EK, EY and QR are eating into what SQ took from QF and BA. Only way forward is to make 'the cake' bigger.

Hi all, IMO following the virtual surrender (or TOTAL surrender if you consider ADL, PER & BNE) of QF to EK for services to Europe from April, SQ's market share will grow nicely on the Roo Route , particularly in the premium cabins and higher-yielding, more business-friendly flexible Y fares.

Going by what I have been reading in the media and on blogs, for many people, Singapore (or HK, for that matter ... and CX will be the other main beneficiary in this, especially as they are in the same alliance as QF) is still a more appealing prospect for a transit or 1-night stopover, than DXB.

I am sure both SQ and CX are still pinching themselves to check if they are really dreaming or not!

Cheers.


User currently offlinetimpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 29923 times:

I just flew SIN-YGN on SQ metal by choice. Fares were the same as MI but I would take a full service wide body 772 every day of the week. SQ did not disappoint, but hard product to hard product, the don't really stand ahead of recent experiences in OZ and MH.

I also know a frequent SIN to USA flyer in the tech biz that is disappointed the direct SIN LAX/EWR flights are going away. He says the flights are always full when he goes. Not that 2 ulh flights are the be all of an airline.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 30580 times:

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 12):

SQ became a dominant player on the Kangaroo route (Oz-Europe), have the advantage over Oz and European carriers of having a hub centrally located. Now the shoe is on the other foot, with M.E. carriers playing SQ's own game and often better. EK, EY and QR are eating into what SQ took from QF and BA. Only way forward is to make 'the cake' bigger.

I agree, SQ grew on the back of AU-EU transit pax. But EK/EY/QR have an advantage in that they're closer to EU than SQ, allowing flights to secondary EU cities that SQ/CX could never dream of serving, like VCE or MLA.
SQ's future might well be in intra-Asia flights, and AU-Asia flights, rather than AU-EU or Asia-EU flights.


User currently offlinebrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1288 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30143 times:

Singapore Airlines has to adapt to its new environment in that the development initiative has been successful that Singapore is now a 1st World country and economy. The local market has matured and more people can fly but are more cost conscious about it, and the global market has evolved dramatically with more direct routes and much more hub competition, primarly in the Gulf region. There will always be room for Singapore Airlines's premium product but I think they will evolve towards a BA model over the longer term, no more hub and spoke but point to point in and out of Singapore. Now I don't mean you won't be able to fly SQ LHR to SYD, just that this will not be the core revenue stream. They have good management and I'm sure they'll adapt and keep gracing the skies with refinement and leadership.


I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 29937 times:

Do you know which car brands performs among the best in Europe during this time of crisis ?
Audi & Mercedes and the low cost brand Dacia.

Yet some Audi are no better than some Toyota or Renault.

There are still, and more and more people ready to pay more for a brand they trust. When it's vital to go from point A to point B on time and with a top comfort, without the headache of connecting you would rather trust SQ than EK, no matter what the statistics say.

But if you give room for the "Toyota's" to become too big in your market, then one day you see a Lexus car dealer entering your market.

As it was noted in this discussion, the market coverage of SIA is quite unique but really makes sense. The strength of EK and alike was largely built on the weaknesses of foreign carriers not willing to penetrate some markets as they were considered too "low yield".



[Edited 2013-01-11 04:50:11]


Never trust the obvious
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 818 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 29896 times:

SQ's success is largely based on 6th freedom traffic, for which an airline requires an understanding airport focussed on providing transfer excellence. Beginning in the 1950's KLM/AMS were the first to develop themselves into 6th freedom/transfer specialists. And since, several airline/airport combinations have successfully copied the KL/AMS formulae. SQ / Changi and now EK/DXB are the best examples.

And.. as you will read below, others are still trying to emanate the classic international 6th freedom airline model.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...nging---sixth-freedom-market-93804


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12356 posts, RR: 25
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 29290 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Unlike much of its regional peers, SQ proper is seemingly not growing

We read in another thread that EK is not pleased with first class yields, and is discussing the well-known plan to have two-class A380s in its fleet, as it heads towards having 90 of the A380-800.

We also read that SQ has firmed its additional 5 A380s for a total of 24.

To me this seems like a lot of seats chasing a finite number of pax and yields, but it seems their recent top-off order shows SQ feels it is the right thing to do.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 29147 times:

I haven't travelled on SQ, even less in F/R, but has anyone who has expound on the load afctors in those classes? It seems like SQ would do better by keeping but downsizing its F/R cabins.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 28365 times:

No clue on SQ loads per class, however per its annual report it ran an average 77.4% load factor on SQ mainline.

In my experience, SQ has always been a more premium heavy operation and for the most part this has worked.

But as explained in its last annual report, the airline saw weakness in the market due to global economic uncertainty weak consumer confidence, with both passenger and cargo yields coming under pressure. They also says that frequent promotional activities necessitated by intense competition amongst airlines and efforts to stimulate travel demand further hurt yields which were down 5.9% year over year. The report shows that SQ is seeing pressure in all regions, including intra-Asia.

Silk Air on the other hand saw its yields grow 4% year over year on about 12% more revenue.

Make of it what you will.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 27739 times:

Bunch of news out on Scoot.

o LF for first 7-months of service was 78%
o Quietly launched interline with Silk Air on Jan 15th covering 19 destinations.
o Will expand their Tiger partnership to allow interlining with Tiger's Indonesia and Philippines divisions. Partnerships will cover 43 destinations in total.
o Expect to add "several" airline partners outside the SIA group. Over 60 foreign carriers serve SIN with some looking to have a partner - example could feed connections to Scoot Australia service.
o 1 added 402 seat 777 planned in May 2013. None in 2014. Wait for 787 in 2015 of which they plan 20.
o 4 and 5th China destination likely in 2013. Bilateral issues holding up South Korea and India.
o 787s will hold 350-360 seats in 2-class config.
o Will look to open new routes like Saporro and secondary cities in India with 787 fleet.
o 787s will deliver 15% reduction in per seat operating cost
o Scoot is unlikely to be consistently profitable until 787 in place.
o SIA believes there will be sufficient differentiation between it and Scoot and will not dilute this position or cannibalise its full-service economy class business.
o Changi airport looking to promote LCC transfer traffic which would help grow overall activity at airport. For example 14% of Jetstar pax connect at SIN.


Story:
http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...its-are-still-two-years-away-94374

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 27632 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 11):
But I don't find that brand awareness strong with people in their early to mid 20s here in Singapore or in Europe.

How come? I thought young people love to enjoy


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 27644 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 34):
o Scoot is unlikely to be consistently profitable until 787 in place

Even then I don't think it's going to work without a major overhaul. The execution has been terrible--a 400 seat 777 flying things Air Asia X wouldn't do with schlocky branding. I just can't fathom an "LCC" running a domestic Chinese tag on a 777--there's nothing low cost about that.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 34):
o SIA believes there will be sufficient differentiation between it and Scoot and will not dilute this position or cannibalise its full-service economy class business.

They are dreaming.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8289 posts, RR: 7
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 27466 times:
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Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
Another problem with SQ is that now point to point connectivity in South East asia is much bigger, no need to pass via KUL or SIN to transit from A to B, and that´s thanks to low cost like Air Asia or Tiger Airways.

Business people always like to fly business but connectivity also helps a lot, we have seen this example in many more places where low cost airlines go after good business routes and start serving hubs and not only regional airports, but also regional to regional.

Singapore Airlines is in a zone where air travelling is booming and even in the medium haul they are going to suffer a lot, however they were safe in the long haul, but now the Middle East carriers are pushing really really hard, and I think they made a good move with Scoot, so they cover that market before someone else come and do for them.

AS LCC airlines rise and other airlines mature, Singapore will decline as a hub and rely more on O and D demand.
This is just a sign of Singapore Economic might and should not be looked at as a negative, so what if Qantas hubs in Dubai. Singapore is also right on top of hundreds of millions Indonesians who's own airlines are geographically challenged. Changi and SQ will continue to be a powerful hub and pioneering airline, the next 797 or A360 will probably have an early customer in SQ or one of its subsidiary airlines. Maybe its time Singapore fly the South Pacific from Auckland or Sydney to South America's west coast, Santiago Chile awaits.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 30):
SQ's success is largely based on 6th freedom traffic, for which an airline requires an understanding airport focussed on providing transfer excellence. Beginning in the 1950's KLM/AMS were the first to develop themselves into 6th freedom/transfer specialists. And since, several airline/airport combinations have successfully copied the KL/AMS formulae. SQ / Changi and now EK/DXB are the best examples.

Singapore Air still flies from SFO to Hong Kong and Los Angeles to Tokyo, so many people will fly them even if Singapore is not their destination.


User currently offlineairdfw From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 27300 times:

Would making nice with other alliance partners would help SQ more?

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8289 posts, RR: 7
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 27247 times:
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Its Singapore Airlines who doesn't "need" help from Star alliance airline which are not up to its "standards".

User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 40, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 27322 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 1):
SQ has a flawless product, that has never been questioned

I question it.

I flew them in Economy from BNE-SIN-JNB as part of a Star Round The World ticket with my other long-haul flights on SAA, Lufthansa and Air New Zealand.

And there was nothing superior about Singapore Airlines' product, apart possibly from the cabin crew being more obliging than LH's.

And the Star Gold recognition was worse than on any of the other carriers, where as usual I was packed off to a cheap and nasty non-SQ lounge at Singapore. I think that the quality has deteriorated massively.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
SQ proper is seemingly not growing, and it looks like increasing volume of group flying will be done by its affiliate carriers in the future.

And this is a related problem.

I live near Brisbane, Australia, and in May I have a business meeting in Singapore which I want to combine with a leisure trip to Phuket. The leisure extension means that I have to buy my own fare, part of which I can claim as a tax deduction.

My Star Gold status is important to me, but I'm aware that:

1) My last SQ flights were mediocre.
2) My Star Gold recognition at SIN is always derisory.
3) My frequent flyer program has devalued miles and status earning on all partner carriers within the Star Alliance to levels where loyalty is no longer worthwhile.
4) I earn no miles or status for Silk Air operated flights.

My first port-of-call was Singapore Airlines.

They quoted me $1069 in Economy Class to Phuket with a stopover in Singapore. This $1069 would secure me Economy seating all the way, lounge use at Brisbane and the awful lounge at Singapore on the return flight to Brisbane, but no lounge use, miles or status credits for my Silk Air flights Singapore-Phuket-Singapore.

They offered me the same flights in Business Class for $4479.

In the end, I put together my own itinerary using their own subsidiaries - Scoot and Silk Air.

I will fly Business Class on Scoot OOL-SIN return for $709. I will have no lounge access. The product won't be anywhere near as good as Singapore Airlines Business Class, but it will be a lot better than the Singapore Airlines Economy product which would have cost me slightly more money.

I will also fly Economy Class on Silk Air between Singapore and Phuket for $270 return, so my total ticket comes to less than $1000 but gives me Business Class for the 7 hour flight and Economy Class for the 1.75 hour flight.

Having two separate tickets isn't really a problem as I have several days in Singapore to work at the start, and I'll overnight there at the end.

In other words, the combination of poor treatment of Star Alliance Golds at Changi and the total lack of recognition of them on Silk Air has seen Singapore Airlines' own subsidiaries cannibalise a sale which would have gone to the parent airline.

And I'm in the highest elite category of my airline - I don't do LCCs. Except when the legacy carrier's product and price is so inferior that it makes sense for me to do so. Qantas make a similar error - I'm in the habit of often flying Business Class SYD-HNL-SYD on their LCC subsidiary Jetstar because the fare is 75% lower than Qantas itself for a comparable product which earns identical points and status in Qantas' own frequent flyer program.

Funnily enough, my "other" Singapore-Phuket option was Tiger, so the sale would have been going to the same parent anyway.

I suspect that the deeply conservative management of the Singapore Airlines group considers that so long as the consumer is only going to Silk Air or Scoot or Tiger they haven't lost any business. But of course they have really - they have funneled a consumer who usually is a high-yielder into buying an LCC ticket.

[Edited 2013-01-17 15:39:18]

User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 26520 times:

Sorry this is coming late in the discussion. Just read it

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 36):
They are dreaming.

Yes they are. Right now I can fly from Singapore to Sydney on SQ in Y at S$1000 (US$850) or on Scoot at S$450. I'd go with the latter.

Scoot will hurt SQ's Economy loads but SQ gets most of its revenue from Business and First Class and to date they have had fare sales in either cabin class except during the 2008 financial crisis where they had selected J fare sales.

I think its fine if SQ's economy loads drop with Scoot and it probably will. I don't expect SQ would grow much unless something changes but even without growth, SQ can be highly profittable from being small and "top-heavy"-focused on being very premium.

But with that they need to be innovative (beyond cost cutting!)- they need to offer more for Asia's exponentially-growing number of millionaires to spend their money on them over the likes of EK, EY and even rising stars like GA.

And if they go with this strategy, they will need to be better aligned with StarA.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 42, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 26053 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 39):

Its Singapore Airlines who doesn't "need" help from Star alliance airline which are not up to its "standards".


I believe they think that but they are finding that they need Star more than the reverse.

Quoting koruman (Reply 40):
Funnily enough, my "other" Singapore-Phuket option was Tiger, so the sale would have been going to the same parent anyway.

I suspect that the deeply conservative management of the Singapore Airlines group considers that so long as the consumer is only going to Silk Air or Scoot or Tiger they haven't lost any business. But of course they have really - they have funneled a consumer who usually is a high-yielder into buying an LCC ticket.

This highlights what an unfocused mess the SQ family of carriers has become, and how revenue negative it all likely is.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineEBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 25311 times:

I think SQ is an awesome airline, but I also see some of the same issues as several other posters here. One of them being the lack of Star Gold recognition.

I usually choose SQ over other airlines as they have good service, but unfortunately they don't always fly to places I go. I think it's great there are possibilities to fly SQ not necessarily flying in or out of Singapore. As US is so far away from SIN everyone needs to make a one-stop anyway (bearing in mind SQ also offers a soon to end non-stop). SQ already offer several one-stops into USA. Is there basis for more?

SQ one-stops into USA:

SIN-HKG-SFO
SIN-ICN-SFO
SIN-NRT-LAX
SIN-FRA-JFK

Is there basis for more?
Several of the big Asian cities have multiple daily flights to Singapore. Why not make one of those flights a one-stop flight into USA ie:

SIN-PEK-NYC
SIN-PVG-NYC
SIN-PVG-SFO
SIN-TPE-SFO

MNL is probably not high-yield enough, but routewise not too far off.

Or perhaps having more flights to East coast USA via Europe.



Future flights: CPH-BRU-CPHx2; CPH-BKK-MNL; MNL-GUM-HNL-LAX
User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4346 posts, RR: 19
Reply 44, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 25283 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 39):
Its Singapore Airlines who doesn't "need" help from Star alliance airline which are not up to its "standards".

Even SQ doesn't believe that nonsense, as they codeshare with none other than....WAIT FOR IT...US Airways!



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 25185 times:

Quoting avek00 (Reply 44):
Even SQ doesn't believe that nonsense, as they codeshare with none other than....WAIT FOR IT...US Airways!

It's not that SQ doesn't codeshare with anyone, but overall they're probably the most uncooperative airline oif any in its alliance—worse than CX or KE. The strategy is basically that they can reap some of the benefits of being in an alliance without suffering the costs, and since their hard product and service are considered by many to be the best in the world (some people really go out of their way to fly SQ), *A wants to keep SQ in the alliance for prestige even if SQ acts like a jerk in the alliance. While I find it extremely annoying that I can't use my UA miles to get award seats on any of their aircraft to the U.S., if SQ makes money by selling those seats or giving them just to their own frequent fliers, then they will continue to act that way.


User currently onlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 46, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 25097 times:

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 43):
SIN-HKG-SFO
SIN-ICN-SFO
SIN-NRT-LAX
SIN-FRA-JFK

Is there basis for more?

There already is

SIN-DME-IAH



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8289 posts, RR: 7
Reply 47, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 25049 times:
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Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 43):
SIN-PEK-NYC
SIN-PVG-NYC
SIN-PVG-SFO
SIN-TPE-SFO

Taipei to the USA has lots of flights already. The Chinnese Government probably wouldn't let Singapore Air fly via Peking or Shanghai to the USA.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 48, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 24997 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 47):
Taipei to the USA has lots of flights already

Plus SQ couldn't make LAXTPE work. SQ in general is down a bit in capacity to the US from its peak, so I think they're probably at best satisfied with their current US network.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 49, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 24882 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 48):
Plus SQ couldn't make LAXTPE work.

Oh I think it worked fine - for some 26-years.

But with the nonstop to LAX which they at the same time reconfigured the cabin on, SQ ended up with 3 daily flights which was too much especially when global economies took a dump and fuel ran up to $140 summer of 2008, so something got cut.

From the hints the LA sales office have made, I would bet a second flight is added back to the LAX schedule, and would not be shocked if its the TPE stop again.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 50, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 24909 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 3):
one thing I hope is they don't abandon EWR

I think EWR is going to die with the A340-500s, unless they create another one stop flight.

I think that its a mistake on their part if they do not do something, since feed from United at EWR could be made very strong.... but feed to a one stop is far less ideal, since United offers its own flights from there with a single stop at Tokyo or Hong Kong already.

NS


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 24728 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 50):
I think EWR is going to die with the A340-500s, unless they create another one stop flight.

I think that its a mistake on their part if they do not do something, since feed from United at EWR could be made very strong.... but feed to a one stop is far less ideal, since United offers its own flights from there with a single stop at Tokyo or Hong Kong already.

As has been said before, EWR-ICN/PEK/PVG-SIN might very well happen.

However, SQ and UA hate each other...


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24906 posts, RR: 22
Reply 52, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 24200 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 51):
As has been said before, EWR-ICN/PEK/PVG-SIN might very well happen.

Does the Singapore-China bilateral give SQ 5th freedom rights U.S-PEK/PVG? I can't see it being in China's interests to do that considering the heavy competition Chinese carriers already face in the U.S. market.

SQ was granted 5th freedom rights in 2003 for cargo flights only between ORD and NKG (Nanjing) and XMN (Xiamen) but it would surprise me if they have any 5th freedom rights for passenger services via China.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200305/24/eng20030524_117163.shtml


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 53, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 23551 times:

Singapore - China since 2005 have a very liberal agreement with unlimited passenger services between the nations, however beyond rights are limited to cargo only operations, and then only certain nations.
In addition since 2010 ASEAN members have also enjoyed a more liberal regime of service China service which would include some beyond passenger rights, however this agreement has stages, and not yet been fully implemented.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 54, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 23045 times:

I never thought that I'd see the day.........

I have received a promotional offer today offering 1 year of Gold Elite Kris Flyer status if I buy a $5000 First Class ticket on Singapore Airlines from Sydney to Singapore, or an $11,000 ticket to Frankfurt.

I've known a large number of second rate airlines to comp mid-tier status, but Singapore Airlines?

Wow!


User currently offlinehkg212 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2008, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 22739 times:

Quoting ManekS (Reply 18):
Singapore sits smack in the middle of one of the worlds most rapidly developing regions - ASEAN.

No it does not -- it lies at the southern edge of where the growth is. With the notable exception of Indonesia, all other ASEAN destinations, and certainly India and China, require significant backtracking when flying in from the northern hemisphere, so SIN is not in a geographically advantageous place as a long-haul hub, especially since it is unable to offer non-stop service to any significant non-stop long-haul market excpet Europe (DXB, by comparison, is within reach of Europe, North and South America, Asia, African, and most of Oceania).

For sure some hubbing will continue in SIN, but it's not a strong growth model for SQ anymore. Strong O/D is the future, with growth coming from further development of Singapore as a tourism and business hub.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8232 posts, RR: 10
Reply 56, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 22421 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 39):
Its Singapore Airlines who doesn't "need" help from Star alliance airline which are not up to its "standards".

None sense. What they don't like is to compete with other *A carriers in the same market. How else would they have access to the largest air market in the World (the USA), if not for being in an alliance?

Quoting avek00 (Reply 44):
Even SQ doesn't believe that nonsense, as they codeshare with none other than....WAIT FOR IT...US Airways!

  
US Airways and SQ don't overlap on a single route or market. SQ likes that. However, UA is a competitor in the Pacific and Asia. SQ doesn't like that, even if it's a "fellow" *A carrier. They codeshare with LH because again, LH doesn't overlap with SQ between Europe and Asia, and especially between Europe and Australia.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 45):
It's not that SQ doesn't codeshare with anyone, but overall they're probably the most uncooperative airline oif any in its alliance—worse than CX or KE. The strategy is basically that they can reap some of the benefits of being in an alliance without suffering the costs

Isn't that the whole point of being in an alliance? To make more money?

Quoting koruman (Reply 40):
I suspect that the deeply conservative management of the Singapore Airlines group considers that so long as the consumer is only going to Silk Air or Scoot or Tiger they haven't lost any business. But of course they have really - they have funneled a consumer who usually is a high-yielder into buying an LCC ticket.

Which is still a lot better than funneling the consumers into buying a competitor's LCC ticket. At the end of the day the market is changing and there's nothing SQ can do but to join it or die. The LCC model has become main stream and a lot of people who can afford to pay "legacy type fares" are chosing to fly with LCC's.


User currently offlineklinit From Australia, joined Jan 2013, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 22081 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 56):
They codeshare with LH because again, LH doesn't overlap with SQ between Europe and Asia, and especially between Europe and Australia.

I take your point... but SIN-FRA(-JFK)?


User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 21914 times:

1. The entire overlapping subsidiaries idea is flawed from the equity holders' point of view (and that's the only point of view that ultimately matters)...

The group is flying two pieces of metal SYD-SIN with twice the costs when that same revenue could be captured by one picece of metal capturing more loyalty, braniding equity, etc. The transformation to a more price sensitive world needs to happen inside the SQ designator. Go to as many classes of service that you have to; if you have to do that on bigger airplanes, then so be it. Will there end up being cannibalization insdie that one aircraft? Sure...just as there is now on Coach vs Business vs First. Cannabilize on just one flight that can be managed properly by one revenue mangement team instead of competing teams.

2. The complementary route network subsidiaries (i.e. Silk) are a less flawed concept, but still flawed vs one carrier. Network size matters. Connectivity matters. Distribution matters (double-coding is a competitive disadvantage). Mileage accrual/alliance/loyalty matters. It's not a big deal that the products are incongruent....the answer to that is simple; make them congruent. If you need to have 4 classes of service across the system, fine.


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 21860 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 51):
However, SQ and UA hate each other

Hates a strong word. I thought that the relationship was supposd to be getting better......no doubt others will comment?


User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 60, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 21554 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 54):

Well I think that's good. They should keep Krisflyer and the PPS Club relevant


User currently offlinechangyou From Singapore, joined Nov 2003, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 21518 times:
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TG and UA decoded on all their network recently...does that make the two STAR members hate each other? If so UA now have SQ and TG to deal with within STAR.

User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 711 posts, RR: 2
Reply 62, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 20916 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting koruman (Reply 40):
4) I earn no miles or status for Silk Air operated flights.

That's odd. Even if you bought the ticket as a SQ pax? As in your boarding pass shows a SQ number?



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 63, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 20362 times:

Do you think eventually Silkair will merge into SQ and Tiger into Scoot, makes sense.

User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 64, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 20164 times:

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 62):
Quoting koruman (Reply 40):
4) I earn no miles or status for Silk Air operated flights.

That's odd. Even if you bought the ticket as a SQ pax? As in your boarding pass shows a SQ number?

Yes.

I can only accrue Star Alliance points if the flight both carries a Star Alliance code and is operated by a Star Alliance carrier. So Silk Air offer me nothing. In addition, I don't get lounge access.

Given that it's a Singapore Airlines subsidiary, why can't they just brand it as Singapore Airlines Regional?


User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1113 posts, RR: 2
Reply 65, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 20016 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 1):
It was really only a matter of time before what has been brewing all over the world, spread to Singapore.

As a highly globalised city and who's economy is highly reliant on international trade, Singapore has long been subject to global economic upheavals. That the country is able to manage itself despite the shocks does not mean the global problems are non-existent here.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
Another problem with SQ is that now point to point connectivity in South East asia is much bigger, no need to pass via KUL or SIN to transit from A to B, and that´s thanks to low cost like Air Asia or Tiger Airways.

These LCCs do not really help increase point-to-point flying. Do check their route maps.Tiger is still chiefly based in SIN and runs a tight hub-and-spoke model, while AirAsia operates from multple hubs due to the geography of Malaysia and from its regional subsidiaries, but they are not introducing a wide range of new city pairs at any of their hubs.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
but the SQ/EK models are just a simple hub and spoke model based on none other than US carriers that originated the model

When SQ and EK operate only from one hub, and it is quite operational impossible to operate from another hub unless it is outside their home country/emirate, I find it also next to impossible for both airlines to operate anything other than a "hub and spoke" model, regardless of who supposedly came up with that "idea".

And while Delta loves to claim itself as the pioneer in the model, it is just an adaptation from European carriers who have long operated from single hubs. Even in the US, at least three airlines were known to have operated similar concepts long before 1955.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Also one thing I have noted over the years observing SQ both publicly and behind the scenes is that the company mainline is seemingly becoming ever more conservative and shying away from risk. While things are often over studied into minute detail, the enterprise is often slow to act. Somewhat akin to a lumbering Japanese company.

If you understand SQ as a group of companies better, it actually runs a very tight ship. SQ mainline may appear risk-adverse, but it is the same company which is asking its smaller subsidiaries to enter into some of the most risky markets, including short-haul LCC against two major players in the region, short-haul full service into many undeveloped markets, and long-haul low-cost flying which has claimed many casualties. I do not think the same company can stomach its main carrier taking similar risks!

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 27):

I agree, SQ grew on the back of AU-EU transit pax. But EK/EY/QR have an advantage in that they're closer to EU than SQ, allowing flights to secondary EU cities that SQ/CX could never dream of serving, like VCE or MLA.
SQ's future might well be in intra-Asia flights, and AU-Asia flights, rather than AU-EU or Asia-EU flights.

The advantages the gulf carriers have in Europe is matched by SQ's geographic advantage in Oceania. The difference is while the gulf carriers took advantage of liberal rights out of SIN into Oceania, SQ is more cautious to fly from Dubai into Europe, even thou they have reciprocal rights to do so. And this is not surprising, because the Singapore-Oceania market is much easier to tackle compared to Middle East-Europe.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 36):

They are dreaming.

Thankfully, not for most passengers. I don't dream that I am on an SQ flight if I am on a Scoot flight, and vice versa.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 37):
Singapore will decline as a hub and rely more on O and D demand

I won't be too quick to judge until we see the Southeast Asian Open Skies agreement coming into effect.

Quoting infinit (Reply 41):
Yes they are. Right now I can fly from Singapore to Sydney on SQ in Y at S$1000 (US$850) or on Scoot at S$450. I'd go with the latter.

As a Singaporean, you would be misrepresenting realities without admitting that SQ does offer cheaper tickets to those destinations in question. SQ's current offer to SYD is S$668 to end February, and S$728 through the peak holiday season in June. I would fly on SQ any day over Scoot despite the price differences.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 45):
It's not that SQ doesn't codeshare with anyone, but overall they're probably the most uncooperative airline oif any in its alliance—worse than CX or KE. The strategy is basically that they can reap some of the benefits of being in an alliance without suffering the costs, and since their hard product and service are considered by many to be the best in the world (some people really go out of their way to fly SQ), *A wants to keep SQ in the alliance for prestige even if SQ acts like a jerk in the alliance. While I find it extremely annoying that I can't use my UA miles to get award seats on any of their aircraft to the U.S., if SQ makes money by selling those seats or giving them just to their own frequent fliers, then they will continue to act that way.

That's your theory, a theory repeated by many others but never proven by anyone.

Yet none of you acknowledges the fact that SQ actually bleeds from being part of the alliance as well, which partly is the reason why it is so selective on code sharing and FF accrual. Many travellers in Singapore happily clock their mileage on other star carriers, and redeem them on SQ flights!

Quoting hkg212 (Reply 55):
certainly India and China, require significant backtracking when flying in from the northern hemisphere,

SQ has long been a key player on the India-US route through SIN. Please remember the world is round, not flat. And I do not think SQ is really trying to market itself as a carrier of choice for the Chinese who are going to NA or Europe.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 59):
Hates a strong word. I thought that the relationship was supposd to be getting better......no doubt others will comment?

They will have to when US leaves Star...

Quoting 777way (Reply 63):
Do you think eventually Silkair will merge into SQ and Tiger into Scoot, makes sense.

Not a chance. Other airlines such as Malaysia are even thinking of adapting SQ's model.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 66, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 19588 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 65):
Yet none of you acknowledges the fact that SQ actually bleeds from being part of the alliance as well, which partly is the reason why it is so selective on code sharing and FF accrual. Many travellers in Singapore happily clock their mileage on other star carriers, and redeem them on SQ flights!

That's true. We always hear about how SQ is being a jerk to StarA but I wonder what the stats are like for people in other Star A programs trying to redeem awards on SQ

[Edited 2013-02-24 21:42:54]

User currently offlineSIA747Megatop From Singapore, joined Apr 2012, 288 posts, RR: 3
Reply 67, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 19338 times:

The airline is growing albeit from a low base and using a marketshare oriented approach which has seen yields plummet over the last few quarters. My take is that SIA group's profitability is about to take on an inverse bell curve.

At its lowest point SQ mainline was only responsible for 25% of SIN's traffic. That has now risen to 33%. The group's marketshare is still 50%+.Profitability will follow suit once SQ can maintain these load factors and slowly start increasing its fares and building loyal customers.

There has also been a lot of growth in selected markets as mentioned above with Beijing and Shanghai both at 28x weekly and BOM, currently up to 21x weekly from 18x weekly is rumoured to hit 28x weekly by year end.



Would you like fries with that? I didn't think so.
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2757 posts, RR: 2
Reply 68, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 19368 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 66):
wonder what the stats are like for people in other Star A programs trying to redeem awards on SQ

I'm a Mileage Plus member and recently scored a Y ticket JFK-FRA on SQ for this summer. I was surprised, to be honest.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week ago) and read 19098 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 65):

Not a chance. Other airlines such as Malaysia are even thinking of adapting SQ's model.

That's not necessarily a ringing endorsement. The case that SQ is sub-dividing itself out of a leadership position and ceding it to others who can handle a consolidated marketing message is real and it's relevant.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 70, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18968 times:

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 67):
Profitability will follow suit once SQ can maintain these load factors and slowly start increasing its fares and building loyal customers

SQ is going to *start* building loyalty now? That ship has sailed.

Quoting Sligo (Reply 69):
That's not necessarily a ringing endorsement. The case that SQ is sub-dividing itself out of a leadership position and ceding it to others who can handle a consolidated marketing message is real and it's relevant.

   SQ runs an excellent airline. The other carriers are more of a hodge podge of strategies that aren't necessarily working.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 65):
The advantages the gulf carriers have in Europe is matched by SQ's geographic advantage in Oceania.

SIN's geographic advantage is waning with the rise of the Gulf Carriers and more importantly, GA.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 65):
Thankfully, not for most passengers. I don't dream that I am on an SQ flight if I am on a Scoot flight, and vice versa.

?? SQ is dreaming if they think people are going to pay a large premium over Scoot to fly SQ Y. Scoot is only going to dilute yields on routes where they compete. Airlines have tried to 'segment' Y cabin fares/flying for decades, and price always wins out.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4346 posts, RR: 19
Reply 71, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18833 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 51):
However, SQ and UA hate each other...

That's not at all true. What is true, however, is that the new United is a much more formidable competitor for SQ on USA flying, and several SIA executives have personally told me that the new United and new Delta are the two airlines that keep them awake at night.

SQ can compete more readily against the Mideast carriers because SQ remains time-competitive on city pair options where Emirates is a logical substitute for SQ. The heartburn comes more from airlines like Delta and United that have retooled their cost bases, offer a decent enough product for the premium traveler (read: flat beds in Business Class), and can handily compete on SQ's ex-USA nonstop sectors. Over the next few years, SQ will face similar pressures from other carriers elsewhere in the world, including the likes of Garuda, that are getting their act together from a cost and product (and safety) standpoint and can offer a matching or superior time proposition for premium travelers whose time equals money.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineSIA747Megatop From Singapore, joined Apr 2012, 288 posts, RR: 3
Reply 72, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18852 times:

Quoting avek00 (Reply 71):
SQ will face similar pressures from other carriers elsewhere in the world, including the likes of Garuda, that are getting their act together from a cost and product (and safety) standpoint and can offer a matching or superior time proposition for premium travelers whose time equals money.

Interesting you mention Garuda. I booked a S$2950 business class fare from Singapore to Sydney r/t where QF/BA were S$4500 and SQ S$5300 despite my TPP status.

[Edited 2013-02-25 08:17:16]


Would you like fries with that? I didn't think so.
User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1113 posts, RR: 2
Reply 73, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18690 times:

Quoting Sligo (Reply 69):
That's not necessarily a ringing endorsement. The case that SQ is sub-dividing itself out of a leadership position and ceding it to others who can handle a consolidated marketing message is real and it's relevant.

Can you cite who the "others" are in this case? I cannot think of any other major full-service carrier in this region who can be considered successful in taking SQ's market share by running a single brand. If CX, TG, JL, MH, CI, BR, KE, OZ, CA, CZ, MU, QF, etc, etc, all use the same multi-brand strategy, what other kind of ringing endorsement are you looking for?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 70):
SQ runs an excellent airline. The other carriers are more of a hodge podge of strategies that aren't necessarily working.

Based on what evidence? MI has been the star performer of the group. SQC is struggling, but that is true for most of the global air freight business. Tiger and Scoot are considered successful in ensuring that at least there is a Singaporean presence in the LCC market which would otherwise be dominated only by AirAsia, Jetstar and Lion to defend Singapore's hub status.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 70):
SIN's geographic advantage is waning with the rise of the Gulf Carriers and more importantly, GA.

The Gulf Carriers are already pass their peak in this region. EK ran more capacity into Australia in previous years, but their lower load factors has caused a gradual scaling back. In fact, EK's gain into Australia has largely been QF's loss rather than SQ. Just go see the statistics for yourself instead of making assumptions.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 70):
?? SQ is dreaming if they think people are going to pay a large premium over Scoot to fly SQ Y. Scoot is only going to dilute yields on routes where they compete. Airlines have tried to 'segment' Y cabin fares/flying for decades, and price always wins out.

As already mentioned above, SQ does not always command a huge premium over other carriers, even full-service ones. My trip into Melbourne last year through SQ was cheaper than through EK, BA or QF. My flight to IST on SQ last year was only slightly above that of EK, at about $100. And I will be flying to Korea, again at a price lower than Asiana or KE.

So if I can fly to Sydney for 7.5 hours for S$728 at current promotional prices on SQ with two meals and four flights to choose from, compared to Scoot where fares start from around S$408.06 provided one flies completely frill-less and have flexible schedules, and can fly on that one specific flight, I would still choose to pay for SQ. Being forced to fly via Scoots limited schedule can actually cause higher costs at the destination which offsets whatever cost benefits there may be. But that's me. Others are more than happy to safe every dollar if they can go without food and have flexible schedules.

There is clearly a market for both types of flyers, which is the result of what we are seeing. Naturally, the price-conscious group will be larger, but as a middle-income earner, I will avoid LCCs if I can, and the same is true amongst most of my peers.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 71):
the new United is a much more formidable competitor for SQ on USA flying

Again, so says some mysterious "SIA executives". I also spoke to some "SIA executives" and they told me most customers still consider SQ light years ahead of anything coming out of that continent.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4346 posts, RR: 19
Reply 74, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 18530 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 73):
Again, so says some mysterious "SIA executives".

Nothing mysterious, actually. I interviewed with SIA in early 2010, and the meetings involved rather frank discussions of SIA's competitive landscape with senior and managing-level executives in terms of their thoughts on SQ's biggest competitors going forward. I was actually surprised to hear that the USA legacies (acting both on their own and in the context of the TATL/TPAC JVs the USA carriers are setting up with foreign partners) were considered the biggest challenge for SQ's business going forward...but given some of SQ's actions/inactions of late with respect to the USA market, it makes a lot of sense.

[Edited 2013-02-25 14:54:50]


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 18418 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 73):
Can you cite who the "others" are in this case? I cannot think of any other major full-service carrier in this region who can be considered successful in taking SQ's market share by running a single brand. If CX, TG, JL, MH, CI, BR, KE, OZ, CA, CZ, MU, QF, etc, etc, all use the same multi-brand strategy, what other kind of ringing endorsement are you looking for?


They are giving up ground on the global stage and are we not left wondering how they can turn the momentum, are we not? SQ cant make 787s or A345 work apparently. I know most airlines cant make A345's work, but saying TG cant make them work either isnt saying much b/c if any airline can make long, thin routes work it should be SQ and its premium customer base. Emirates, on the other hand, is running one designatior to meet the demands of the business person who is flying for J-paid-by-his-company and yet he still earns his 50% miles when he is flying on holiday to MLE on a Skywards Saver. They run a pack-em-in-operation to India and top-of-the-line premium to JFK and the brand does not get tarnished. They manage it well and they keep cannibalization inside one office where it can be managed.

To recycle what I wrote above re the disadvantages of Silk:
Network size matters. Connectivity matters. Distribution matters (double-coding is a competitive disadvantage). Mileage accrual/alliance/loyalty matters. It's not a big deal that the products are not congruent....the answer to that is simple; make them congruent. If you need to have 4 or 5 or 6 classes of service across the system, fine.

And on a LCC airline within an airline:
Flying two pieces of metal when you could fly one bigger one is never ideal. See more on this in a post above. Saying somebody else does it means nothing- well, less than nothing as it has usually failed; Metrojet, Ted, Song, and scores of others and for good reason.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 76, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 18437 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 73):
MI has been the star performer of the group

Based on what? It's been around for 30+ years and amassed a fleet of just over 20 Airbus narrowbodies. TR has done the same in 9 years. The upside of a full service regional narrowbody carrier is limited.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 73):
The Gulf Carriers are already pass their peak in this region. EK ran more capacity into Australia in previous years,

EK has doubled SYD seats since 2007 to DXB. In SIN it's roughly flat, but more importantly CGK is up 400+%. If anything is past its prime it's probably Australia.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 73):
they told me most customers still consider SQ light years ahead of anything coming out of that continent.

In terms of product that will likely always be true, but in terms of what really matters, SQ is not in a strong position really anywhere in North America. The nonstops didn't work, and all the one stops bar IAH have a carrier or carriers that offer a much stronger breadth and depth of network, and that's what really sells major business, not a nice product.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2012 posts, RR: 4
Reply 77, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18660 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 73):
So if I can fly to Sydney for 7.5 hours for S$728 at current promotional prices on SQ with two meals and four flights to choose from, compared to Scoot where fares start from around S$408.06 provided one flies completely frill-less and have flexible schedules, and can fly on that one specific flight, I would still choose to pay for SQ. Being forced to fly via Scoots limited schedule can actually cause higher costs at the destination which offsets whatever cost benefits there may be. But that's me. Others are more than happy to safe every dollar if they can go without food and have flexible schedules.

Having flown Scoot (and flying again with them next week) I concur with Huaiwei. For example, their horrible departure times (and lack of online checkin grrrrrr) can lead to additional accommodation costs. Then I look at overpriced airport meals because we won't be fed onboard without paying extra... Possibly not enough to match SQ's prices, but when comparing it does force you to put a monetary value on things like comfort and convenience.

In my opinion the Asian LCC's (and probably Europe too) have acted as an enabler for travel where it might not have otherwise taken place. There is no way we could have afforded so many overseas trips as a family but for airlines like Scoot, AirAsia and Jetstar, likewise for colleagues. And it seems to me that once you start people travelling they want more. And then if they can afford it they want the luxuries - the premium economy (err, "Business class" on an LCC) and the full service airlines...

Comparing Scoot's prices with AirAsia and Jetstar makes me think that their current fares are unsustainable. I can't imagine that their cost base would be significantly lower than the former.

Quoting Sligo (Reply 75):
And on a LCC airline within an airline:
Flying two pieces of metal when you could fly one bigger one is never ideal. See more on this in a post above. Saying somebody else does it means nothing- well, less than nothing as it has usually failed; Metrojet, Ted, Song, and scores of others and for good reason.

I don't necessarily agree with the mentality that "it didn't work in the US so it can't work anywhere else." The markets are likely quite different. The US probably has many more city pairs per airlines. Due to the size of the parent country (one or two major cities), Asian airlines can often work single hub and spoke with defined leisure/premium destinations/departure times.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 78, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 17996 times:

Aviation Daily Published an airline profile chart of SQ.

Here are some numbers.

Top Airports (outside SIN) in revenue.
1. LHR
2. HKG
3. SYD
4. NRT
5. ICN
6. LAX
7. FRA
8. PEK
9. MEL
10. CGK

Average daily mainline departures - 223

Network ASM % distribution:
Asia - 65.2%
Oceania - 11.8
Americas - 5.5
Europe - 15.1
Africa/ME - 2.4

Weekly Flight distribution
Asia - 1,163
Oceania - 205
Americas - 48
Europe - 117
Africa/ME - 30

Passenger growth rate %
Asia - 6.8%
Oceania - 12.9%
Americas - 4.1%
Europe - (-10.4%)
Africa/ME (-1.0%)

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1310 posts, RR: 2
Reply 79, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 17734 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 78):
Europe - (-10.4%)

Interesting.

I think this show how both the European economic malaise is effecting traffic, but likely even more importantly how SQ is losing out on its historic bread and butter markets as other hub players like Gulf airline grown in stature serving European transit clients.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 78):
Asia - 6.8%
Oceania - 12.9%

Like other Asian carriers say, it appears the future growth will be inside the Pacific basin, and intra-regional flying will grow in importance.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 80, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 17604 times:

If indeed intra-Asia regional services are the wave of the future, no wonder SIA Group has so many Silk Air aircraft on order.

I guess overtime we might see SQ shift away from primarily a longhaul enterprise, to a more balanced regional carrier.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineKfly From Australia, joined May 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 17442 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 78):
Passenger growth rate %
Asia - 6.8%
Oceania - 12.9%
Americas - 4.1%
Europe - (-10.4%)
Africa/ME (-1.0%)

This gives a good understanding on why the SIA group is building up Silk Air, Tiger and Scoot.

If the pie is getting bigger, cannibalization of the mainline will be less of an issue on overlapped routes (eg. BKK, SYD)


K



Fly! My Pretties
User currently offlinemacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 17356 times:
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I often fly SQ on the SIN-LAX-SIN run and occasionally SIN-SYD-SIN, but recently flew SIN-BKK on TZ. The flight was acceptable; I knew I was not flying SQ and was willing to accept a TZ level of service.

But the check-in process at Changi was so very painful that I changed my return and came back to SIN on SQ. The counters at SIN are contracted out and frankly, the staff manning them just do not seem to care.

I think keeping SQ focused on long-haul and TZ on runs around the ASEAN region would be a sound strategy, but TZ needs to step up their ground-based game or I fear such poor service will soon reflect poorly on SQ.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 17101 times:

So to briefly summarise the last few posts, the statistics show the growth is coming from greater Asia- India, China, Indonesia and Australia. I guess everyone has been speculating on this but now there's some solid stats to back this.

What would be interesting is if anyone has stats on SQ's F and J yields from their regional routes like SIN-KUL, SIN-BKK and SIN-CGK. CGK iis one of the few regional routes with F and I heard it is still doing very well. SQ even refitted some of their aircraft plying this route with their long-haul F product.


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8877 posts, RR: 75
Reply 84, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 16802 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 23):
SilkAir poised for rapid growth after quietly emerging as SIA's gem :

That comes with government intervention in the allocation of routes. There are many routes from SIN which other Singapore based carriers are not allowed to fly apart from SQ/MI.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 76):
If anything is past its prime it's probably Australia.

And it is only going to get worse in my view as the QF/EK bridge builds. SIN was not only an important hub for SQ, it was also for QF. SQ indirectly benefited from that with lower airport costs, ATC, and ground handling. As more people bypass SIN, the cost of operating in SIN is going to increase as the running costs are going to split up over fewer movements.

Singapore as a country is also going to feel it, a far slice of their GDP comes from airport related activities.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 85, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 16582 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 83):
. CGK iis one of the few regional routes with F and I heard it is still doing very well.

It may be, but as GA grows and improves, that major flow point is at risk, because the high yield Indonesia point of sale traffic will overwhelmingly prefer a nonstop on GA.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 86, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16418 times:

One thing with Indonesia is that its a large nation and with GA focus on Jakarta for its international services, others like SQ are still a very viable option for those that must connect anyhow be it CGK, SIN, KUL, HKG, etc.. Even out of Jakarta, GA is still a long way from offering the schedule and frequency options to many destinations that a SQ can deliver.

Even CX which today reported its rather poor earnings, mentioned Indonesia market is performing quite well and that it even has had to add extra sections.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 87, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16347 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 86):
One thing with Indonesia is that its a large nation and with GA focus on Jakarta for its international services, others like SQ are still a very viable option for those that must connect anyhow be it CGK, SIN, KUL, HKG, etc.. Even out of Jakarta, GA is still a long way from offering the schedule and frequency options to many destinations that a SQ can deliver.

Indonesia is on fire, and it has a long way to go in terms of infrastructure, never mind GA and other local airlines, so in boom times there's definitely plenty of room for everyone. Over the long term however I think GA/JT etc are going to claw back a lot of traffic from the major players like SQ/CX/etc. Or they could just screw everything up, which is not an unlikely outcome.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1113 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16346 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 84):

That comes with government intervention in the allocation of routes. There are many routes from SIN which other Singapore based carriers are not allowed to fly apart from SQ/MI.

Wow, yet another classic but baseless comment. MI's growth was much more pronounced only in recent years when SQ decided to allocate more resources and money into it, as growth shifted to this part of the world. Regulatory issues don't change according to an airline's wishes.

And if this so-called practise plays such a major role, I am left wondering just how the LCCs were able to help drive SIN's traffic growth of over 10% for the past three years. Especially when we consider that AirAsia, a foreign airline with no base in Singapore, flies the most number of flights, and hence takes up the most number of slots, amongst the big three LCCs flying from SIN. Further more, Airasia is in direct competition with SilkAir as they serve the same market, and AirAsia's boss is famous for publicly slamming the Singapore government if he feels there is unfair protectionism, whether true or otherwise. He has not complained, so why have you?

And even if your persistent assertion that SQ and MI are given preference in the allocation of slots out of SIN are true, so what? As the home carriers of this country and the biggest contributors to our economy, most locals would expect preferential treatment for them versus foreign carriers.

Quoting zeke (Reply 84):
Singapore as a country is also going to feel it, a far slice of their GDP comes from airport related activities.

You must be hoping Singapore will collapse as a country after QF leaves Singapore. Thankfully, the Singapore government, besides pushing your cargo plane behind tonnes of SQ planes on the take-off roll, are smarter in realising that it is a loss not worth fighting against, for QF's absence can actually present opportunities for SQ and other aspiring carriers seeking to expand out of SIN. And with higher profit margins too.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8877 posts, RR: 75
Reply 89, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 16080 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 88):
Wow, yet another classic but baseless comment.

Read reply 23, and the link provided. You will see a number of routes that are protected with only SQ/MI operating them.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 88):
And if this so-called practise plays such a major role, I am left wondering just how the LCCs were able to help drive SIN's traffic growth of over 10% for the past three years.

I look forward to a significant increase to SQ bottom line then in May if this is true.....

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 88):
You must be hoping Singapore will collapse as a country after QF leaves Singapore.

Why would I want Singapore to collapse ? It has been the middle east carriers taking the yield away from SQ on the Kangaroo route, not QF. SQs problem as I see it for late 70s/80s/90s SQ was built on the "Kangaroo" route, "killing" off many European carriers flying beyond Asia. Passengers now have a lot of alternatives.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 90, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15857 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 89):
It has been the middle east carriers taking the yield away from SQ on the Kangaroo route, not QF. SQs problem as I see it for late 70s/80s/90s SQ was built on the "Kangaroo" route, "killing" off many European carriers flying beyond Asia. Passengers now have a lot of alternatives.

   The Gulf Carriers of today are the SQ of yesterday.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 91, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15690 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 70):
SIN's geographic advantage is waning with the rise of the Gulf Carriers and more importantly, GA.

I concur. SQ performed well for a long time. They were the first to take the risk of buying a large number of long haul network that couldn't be filled without them becoming a major network carrier. They did well. But now other carriers (e.g., mid-east and GA) are growing. There is simply more competition.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1310 posts, RR: 2
Reply 92, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14876 times:

I see in separate thread that Scoot will switch its 20 787-9 orders to include 10 787-8 models for delivery commencing in 2014. ( Scoot Adds Seoul; Increase TPE; To Get 787-8 (by LAXintl Mar 25 2013 in Civil Aviation) )

Any ideas of what new markets Scoot seeks to enter ?

Seem like most of flying today is already overlap with mainline SQ.

Will 787 allow flying to more distant markets like Europe?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 93, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14105 times:

While yes the 787 at Scoot would make Europe possible, I think they see the world more in the Asia-Pacific basin for now.

This week they announced their 4th China route, so it seems that is a market that has a heavy focus so far.

But yes ultimately more and more of the flying could overlap with SQ mainline. Will be interesting how they deal with such market positioning chasing some of the same passengers.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinetraindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13562 times:

I was in Singapore last week. It is my understanding that Changi will build a new Terminal to be the largest in the world. They want to be able to be more competitive and continue the role of SIN as a major hub. I would not underestimate either SQ or the Singapore government. They are willing to do what it takes to be successful.

By the way, I flew UA, both in and out of SIN, on their 777. I was in J and the service was quite good, though not to the level of SQ. Truly SQ is facing more competition. Their intra Asian product was not worth the extra cost compared to my UA flights.


User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 95, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12881 times:

Quoting traindoc (Reply 94):
By the way, I flew UA, both in and out of SIN, on their 777. I was in J and the service was quite good, though not to the level of SQ. Truly SQ is facing more competition. Their intra Asian product was not worth the extra cost compared to my UA flights.

Agreed that UA offers more competitive fares on their flights out of SIN but if you took UA out of SIN you must have flown either to HKG or NRT. On either route SQ's J product is the 1-2-1 "Diamond seat (the first picture), not the 2-2-2 regional business seat (the second picture) used on many other Asian routes but the latter is also a fantastic J product as well. The former is still way ahead of any other J product out there for me.


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User currently offlineupwardfacing From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Apr 2013, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12214 times:

It's almost May: Are there any hints of planned replacements for the EWR-SIN and LAX-SIN nonstops?

User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 711 posts, RR: 2
Reply 97, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 12123 times:
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Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 96):

It's almost May: Are there any hints of planned replacements for the EWR-SIN and LAX-SIN nonstops?

Wouldn't that be the existing JFK and LAX services that feature one stop?



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlineupwardfacing From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Apr 2013, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 12104 times:

I had thought they planned to replace the nonstops with new one-stop flights, which would supplement the existing LAX-NRT-SIN and JFK-FRA-SIN.

User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7088 posts, RR: 57
Reply 99, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 12117 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
SQ even calls MI a "premium" airline

There is nothing premium about Silk air. It is a run of the mill airline, with a service standard similar to Air Hong Kong.

Quoting koruman (Reply 40):
) I earn no miles or status for Silk Air operated flights.

Only sq card holders get miles on MI - not * card holders

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 51):
However, SQ and UA hate each other.

It is well known that SQ is above having equal relations with other carriers

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 73):
MI has been the star performer of the group

It tells, as their service is fairly mediocre.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 100, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11429 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
So with lots of low and high end competition nibbling away, and relative high cost base, what can SQ do?.
Quoting infinit (Reply 95):
On either route SQ's J product is the 1-2-1 "Diamond seat (the first picture), not the 2-2-2 regional business seat (the second picture) used on many other Asian routes but the latter is also a fantastic J product as well.




One interim fix is to evaluate SQ's premium configuration on their aircraft. Perhaps now is the time to reduce the number of premium seats or go towards a more dense premium configuration. These days, businesses have alternative ways to conduct business that used to require face to face meetings in years past. Combine this with much more cost conscious companies, and SQ's current emphasis on premium heavy configured aircraft may not properly match the demand for premium traffic today.

In terms of cost base (ie. labor), this is something all airlines will be forced to deal with at some point. SQ today, EK and TK tomorrow.


User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1310 posts, RR: 2
Reply 101, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10669 times:

Why is it that SilkAir is kept at arms length from SQ?

Seems like it hurts the customer, but making MI appear to have minimal cooperation with SQ when one does not even see the connection flights properly in GDS, or receive full frequent flyer mileage credit.

For example I had colleague need to visit Penang last year and while SQ/MI was convenient in timing, the mileage issue had him opt for another airline.


User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1113 posts, RR: 2
Reply 102, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 10462 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 101):
For example I had colleague need to visit Penang last year and while SQ/MI was convenient in timing, the mileage issue had him opt for another airline.

I am flying via MI to Penang next month, and the only reason why I choose it over cheaper LCCs is the mileage accrual.

Hence, I have no idea what your friend is talking about.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7088 posts, RR: 57
Reply 103, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10257 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 102):
and the only reason why I choose it over cheaper LCCs is the mileage accrual.

No mileage accrual for star alliance members.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 104, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10124 times:

Well, I'm now nearing the end of my mixed Scoot / Silk Air itinerary.

This is not intended as a trip report, but rather a critique of SQ's confused and fragmented business model.

OOL-SIN was an eight hour flight in "Business Class" which now sells for A$500. It's a Premium Economy seat, accrues no miles, gets the worst cooked Economy meal I've ever seen (a sludgy main and a piece of bread, no dessert at all), one drink and streamed IFE for free. ScootBiz was almost full, but the extra legroom economy seats were all vacant, or virtually so.

SIN-HKT-SIN was in Economy on Silk Air. Good food, half a glass of soda, 1990s dropdown screen IFE, zero Star Gold recognition.

The same return itinerary would now cost A$1400. To be honest, I could get a better product by buying a Qantas Premium Economy fare to SIN with an HKT economy add-on, but with the compelling addition of miles and status earning.

Scoot strikes me as a dumb business model. Just make all SQ flights have three cabins. SQ Business would be unchanged, Premium Economy would be ScootBiz, and Economy could "add" Economy Minus: a $100 per sector discount for renouncing food, drink, baggage, IFE and flight connections. Four service classes in three cabins.

SilkAir is another silly model. I wanted a full-service regional flight, but I don't want to renounce my Star Gold privileges and mileage and status earning. If SQ won't recognise my Star status on SilkAir then I might as well fly another carrier.

The current model is a muddle. And the duplication is wasteful. Do they really need a Scoot flight to the Gold Coast when they are not filling their flights on SQ to and from Brisbane 90 km away?


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2921 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9793 times:

Most experts would likely say SQ will continue to find it hard to continually sustain growth with so much competition around, but its managed to do quite well over the last decade as so much has changed in the industry.

The cost control will need to be quite well managed though to keep it at a position it can compete using product whilst still being priced right for the marketplace.

Its multi-brand strategy covers all corners of the market, but it may well need to revisit this in coming years to ensure that it is still the right mix. Will be interesting to see it pan out.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17364 posts, RR: 46
Reply 106, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9780 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 104):
Scoot strikes me as a dumb business model.

   It makes DL's Song look brilliant and downright revolutionary.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 107, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9435 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 104):
Scoot strikes me as a dumb business model
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 106):
It makes DL's Song look brilliant and downright revolutionary

Well, I've now done my Scoot overnight return in Business Class.

And I cannot exaggerate what a lousy business model it is. The flaws are as big as a house.

Long-haul LCC is a risk, and Jetstar International - let's be frank - "succeeds" because Qantas management needs to cook the books to justify shrinking Qantas (mainly for reasons of idealogical dogma around the Qantas Sales Act and unionisation).

SYD-HNL is a classic example of parent versus child. Qantas has to use inefficient ancient 767s while Jetstar gets to use Qantas' shinier, more efficient A332s, and Jetstar even gets to use the Qantas loyalty program as a sales tool, especially for Business Class. From fleet acquisition to engineering costs to catering, every charge is run through Qantas' accounts. And still Qantas prevails on the route against its offspring, because Qantas can deliver vastly superiuor yields even though it has to fly a gas-guzzler against a more efficient adversary.

Lex Lasry, now an eminent judge in Victoria, once defended a capital case in Singapore and wrote of the system there being "typically inflexible". But sometimes when they try to be flexible they make things worse.

Scoot is a product of "Jetstar Envy", and nobody seems to care about the fundamental problems.

On the one hand, it uses the SQ fleet, SQ engineering, SQ bulk purchases of fuel, catering etc. But its minute fleet (4 x 777-200) means that late operations wreak havoc in a way they wouldn't if it was part of SQ. And while it can act as a magnet for low-yield, disloyal passengers, the inability to even sell Star Alliance benefits like lounge access and miles and status earning ensures that any passengers willing to buy a better-yielding ticket (e.g. Business Class or extra legroom economy) is likely to defect to a full service alternative.

Lastly, those higher-yielding fares are so enveloped in a nickel'n'diming mentality that I overheard the lady behind me before check-in telling he rneighbour that she had once bought ScootBiz, and "Never Again".

I soon learned why. A blanket in Business Class costs $12, a pillow $10.

I would gladly have paid an extra $100 for Business Class to be all-inclusive. But when I'm on-board and seated in Business Class, not opening my wallet is a point of principle.

As I've written, Scoot could have operated within Singapore Airlines aircraft far more efficiently. The old argument about Premium Economy cannibalising Business is getting sillier and siller, and ScootBiz should just be Premium Economy, and for around $75 per sector more than Scoot Biz it should be all-inclusive.

And Scoot Economy should just be the (variable) rear 4-8 rows of the Singapore Airlines aircraft, with a $100 per sector discount in exchange for renunciation of luggage, meals, drinks, IFE, transfers and frequent flyer privileges.

Instead they have more radical differentiation, but stupidly radical.


User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 108, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9280 times:

I think the past few posts make some very valid points.

Well I think fundamentally the SQ psyche is that its mainline Singapore Airlines brand is precious and must never be compromised. This is an airline that threatened to leave Star A if they weren't allowed to keep their logo on the tail of their StarA-scheme aircraft. Their crew are trained to serve drinks the same way and virtually every single interaction with the passengers in-flight is bound by Standard Operating Procedures with some room for them to have some situational awareness. If you like they brought Fordism into the airline industry.

And it is good if you ask me. It is the consistency that makes this brand so great.

Silkair serves short-haul routes outside market centres. Their loads could be good but not their yields. If SQ mainline had taken over those A320s and ran those routes, the costs would probably be higher making them less viable. They probably wont be able to extend the same level of service on these flights. So SQ would rather have another brand to run these routes. This is where increasingly more of the growth could be coming from. If the yields increase, SQ mainline might take the route on. So MI also serves as a testing ground before it makes it into the sacred SQ club if you will.

Tiger and Scoot are beyond me. I don't know enough about LCCs.

I would think one brand would be superior but note that SQ only has a 30% stake in Tiger
And I just ook Scoot to SYD. It was 90% full on both legs. The crew told me they usually get 95% capacity. Mind you this is a daily 777 service!


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8795 times:

I've always found some aspects of SQ's fifth-freedom flights to be a bit odd. It's easy to get a relatively cheap one-way SFO-ICN or JFK-FRA ticket not long before, but SQ doesn't allow you to fly, say, SFO-ICN-PVG or JFK-FRA-ATH with the second segment on OZ/LH metal.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 110, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8382 times:

This story says SIA could be planning strategic changes including potential bilateral relationships with a Middle Eastern carrier or even exiting Star to tie up with a Skyteam Chinese carrier. Chief executive has said SIA needs to increase its exposure to high potential markets like China and India.
Story says with about 40% of SQ mainline revenue is from premium classes however such demand continues to weaken as leisure travel is booming in Asia which is behind SIA pushing into the low-cost segment and expanding its regional network.

Singapore Airlines Fights Back To Boost Growth
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1368665600.html

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8877 posts, RR: 75
Reply 111, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8310 times:

What time will SQ announce their figures today ?


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 112, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8084 times:

They posted weaker then forecast numbers.

SIA says demand remains flat with yields under pressure;

Singapore Airlines results disappoint, capacity cuts planned
http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/0...ines-results-idINDEE94F03Z20130516

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinedennys From France, joined May 2001, 871 posts, RR: 1
Reply 113, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7620 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 3):

Reply 3, posted Wed Jan 9 2013 18:37:01 your local time (4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 27801 times:

Whatever SQ does, one thing I hope is they don't abandon EWR. I know they fly to JFK, but many people located west of Manhattan detest having to schlep to JFK and there are surely business travellers in Manhattan who prefer EWR over JFK. I know this is heresy to many, but it is surely true!


I am affraid after they will have dropped the A345s , only JFK remains scheduled .


User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1310 posts, RR: 2
Reply 114, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6878 times:

What is the reasoning to keep Silk Air and SQ apart by the SIA group?

I would think by more strongly marketing connections and the complimentary route networks, both carriers would benefit, which is good for the group.

MI serves many markets that only widebody SQ cant, and it seems a bit strange to keep them at arms length from each other, especially anti-consumer things like mileage earning difficulty when using MI flights.


User currently offlineSIA747Megatop From Singapore, joined Apr 2012, 288 posts, RR: 3
Reply 115, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 6748 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 114):
What is the reasoning to keep Silk Air and SQ apart by the SIA group?


They pretty much operate as one carrier with the exception of Silkair not being in Star Alliance. A lot of MI's customers are connecting passengers. One theory as to why MI is not in Star Alliance is that it encourages passengers to fly SQ into SIN in order to connect to MI as opposed to flying a *A carrier to connect to MI.

An example: A ZRH originating passenger with LOK being their final destination is more likely to book a single ticket on SQ + MI as opposed flying LX to SIN and booking MI on a separate ticket.

[Edited 2013-06-01 17:35:09]


Would you like fries with that? I didn't think so.
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7088 posts, RR: 57
Reply 116, posted (1 year 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 6625 times:

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 115):
They pretty much operate as one carrier with the exception of Silkair not being in Star Alliance. A lot of MI's customers are connecting passengers. One theory as to why MI is not in Star Alliance is that it encourages passengers to fly SQ into SIN in order to connect to MI as opposed to flying a *A carrier to connect to MI.

SQ is totally confused as an airline group. Four brands that don't really work as a unit, Two full service brands that aren't even in the same alliance. MI is hardly premium either. two low cost brands that are confused. Why two low cost brands?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineSIA747Megatop From Singapore, joined Apr 2012, 288 posts, RR: 3
Reply 117, posted (1 year 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 116):
SQ is totally confused as an airline group. Four brands that don't really work as a unit, Two full service brands that aren't even in the same alliance. MI is hardly premium either. two low cost brands that are confused. Why two low cost brands?

I disagree. What makes you think that MI and SQ don't work as a unit? Cross bookings between the two carriers increased 25% year-over-year and MI continues to be SIA Group's most successful carrier by margins. Furthermore, in the first half of FY12/13 the airline recorded a 23% increase in RPKs with growth in China, India and Indonesia. MI has nothing to gain from joining Star Alliance. MI has the strength of a lower cost base and flies to destinations with price sensitive leisure customers in the back where there isn't enough traffic to justify a A330/777.

One of the reasons SIA decided not to pursue a long haul version of TR was simply that the brand didn't have the traction.
TR was founded under the impression that as long as fares are low passengers will come. This turned out to be false and as a result the brand suffers from a weaker public image compared to its largest competitor, AK. If SIA had gone ahead with a long haul TR outfit they would be have been disadvantaged by weak branding from the beginning.

Scoot gives SIA Group the chance to build a brand, an image the same way TR's more successful counterpart AK was able to do. Scoot's marketing has been nothing short of incredible with advertising all over the internet and out of home on busses, bus stops, trains and taxis. The airline has also created a fantastic social media presence which TR failed to do.

SIA Group has no intention of linking SQ/MI with TR/TZ and has deliberately segregated the two sets of airlines to lower the risk of cannibalisation. Scoot is trying as much as possible to detach itself from the image of SQ. There has been co-operation between TR and TZ through the introduction of joint itineraries in October last year and a rumoured codeshare agreement. One must remember that TZ is only a year old! Watch this space.



Would you like fries with that? I didn't think so.
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 6457 times:

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 115):

Yes but that same ZRH-originating passenger will likely be a Miles & More member who will be upset when they realise they can't earn miles on the Silkair portion of the trip. I, for one, have booked elsewhere because of this.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6033 times:

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 117):
What makes you think that MI and SQ don't work as a unit?

A good example is in GDS.

First SQ-MI connections are often not displayed as single carrier options which reduces their visibility. Unlike other carriers that have partners that operate for them and are essentially listed as single carrier booking, MI-SQ often are displayed as two separate airlines.
Secondly pricing. It seems SQ has not built or offer integrated fares and MI often comes in at a supplement to the SIN fare. This is crazy as the underlying price to many MI markets is much lower than SIN anyhow on a global basis, but instead of pricing that lower ZRH-Penang fare, SQ sometimes will look to price a ZRH-SIN and SIN-PEN separately.

I've seen many many odd SQ-MI connectivity anomalies over the years.

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 117):
MI continues to be SIA Group's most successful carrier by margins.

Yes and that is great for the SIA Group, but still does not indicate the group has a very coherent place for its subsidiary airlines.

Personally I think the time will come (if it has not already) that these airlines will compete against and each other and cannibalize each otehrs passengers. This I believe will become ever more apparent especially as MI fleet grows significantly and the route networks overlap further.

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 118):
I, for one, have booked elsewhere because of this.

  
Same here. Had a conference in Malaysia. SQ would have been a natural choice, but with MI mileage accrual issues this was a big turn off, and opted for another carrier and routing entirely.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
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