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Lion Air To Order Over 200 A320neo - Report  
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14963 times:

Looks like LionAir is shopping for a few more planes 

“Lion Air is said to have finalised a large order of A320neos before the end of the year [2012],” the paper said on Wednesday, adding that the order may be for as many as 220 planes."
http://www.english.rfi.fr/asia-pacif...s-lion-air-order-over-200-airbuses

(credit to Leeham for posting the link via twitter)

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30410 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14935 times:
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Been rumored for some time for their Malindo Air operation.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24717 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14920 times:

Yes this seemingly has been in works already for a while with the CEO last year stating they were seriously considering the NEO.

I note you started the same thread back then....

Lion Air Considering A320neo Order (by flood Nov 27 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4673 posts, RR: 38
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14893 times:
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Quoting flood (Thread starter):
Looks like LionAir is shopping for a few more planes

So with 239 B737's ordered (mostly 737-MAX) and most likely up to 220 A320-NEO's, they show a spectacular growth. The numbers by themselves are incredible. But good for all involved if this order is indeed finalized.  .


User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2185 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14859 times:

I will go out on a limb and guarantee that Boeing did not win the 2012 orders race. Between this and the EK order they'll pip Boeing by just enough.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14777 times:

Airbus has said nothing about any JT order in the 9 Jan. 2013 press release page. They only talk about the 5 X A-320NEOs and 5 X A-321NEOs for ME was signed today.

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...r-for-ten-a320neo-family-aircraft/

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14747 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
I note you started the same thread back then....

Indeed I did. But all initial reports indicated they were looking to possibly purchase "only" additional 100 aircraft. I never anticipated such a potentially large order given the number of 737s they already have coming as well.


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14682 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Airbus has said nothing about any JT order in the 9 Jan. 2013 press release page. They only talk about the 5 X A-320NEOs and 5 X A-321NEOs for ME was signed today.

I indicated in the the title it was according to the report. It's not a firm order announced by Airbus and I don't believe they release their final 2012 until the 17th (?) of this month.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14511 times:

Quoting wingman (Reply 4):
I will go out on a limb and guarantee that Boeing did not win the 2012 orders race. Between this and the EK order they'll pip Boeing by just enough.

That limb is about to be cut off from under you. Neither this order, nor any EK order for A-380s are firm. EK is only "considering" ordering 30 more A-388s. They have not ordered them, yet.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...rjumbos-for-network-expansion.html


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30410 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 14288 times:
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Quoting wingman (Reply 4):
I will go out on a limb and guarantee that Boeing did not win the 2012 orders race. Between this and the EK order they'll pip Boeing by just enough.

Even if EK and Malindo Air placed those orders in 2012, it would still only be around half of what Airbus needed at the end of November to match, much less exceed, Boeing.


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 14163 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Even if EK and Malindo Air placed those orders in 2012, it would still only be around half of what Airbus needed at the end of November to match, much less exceed, Boeing.

Agree, it's completely unrealistic... Boeing has an insurmountable lead.

I do anticipate the Lion Air order to be firmed, however. But there too we don't know what the order would entail. With the 220 figure floating around, I could just as easily see 120 + 100 options in the works. For them to order another 200+ firm aircraft would be incredible, regardless of Malindo... in both a positive and negative sense.


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14059 times:

Woh ... just another 200 frames.
 
Cant wait to see if this is confirmed!


User currently onlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 13734 times:

Quoting wingman (Reply 4):

My arithmetic may slightly off but Airbus would need almost need to bag 600 planes to be tied with Boeing.

Back to topic though, with Boeing increasing their assembly rate and Airbuses keeping even, relatively, why would Lion Air jump ship? I doubt A needs to discount the NEO at all if it selling so well. Must be something else.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30410 posts, RR: 84
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 13718 times:
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Quoting rotating14 (Reply 12):
Back to topic though, with Boeing increasing their assembly rate and Airbuses keeping even, relatively, why would Lion Air jump ship?

Airbus may have better availability for the neo than Boeing for the MAX (EIS is at least a year earlier, so that's some 400-500 extra deliveries) and/or Lion Air just wants to spread things between both OEMs.


User currently onlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 13696 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):

So should this materialize, the NEO would be sold out until when?


User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 13653 times:

I really wonder how Lion Air will finance all of these planes. No bank or lessor is willing to have such significant exposure to one customer. Even an airline as successful as Emirates has to work very hard to find enough financing.

User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days ago) and read 13214 times:

What I really wonder is if they will find place to "park" all this planes, Jakarta Airport and many other airport in the Area are very busy and i´m not sure if the infrastructure will develop as fast as Lion Air, Wings Air, Citilink, Air Asia and other are developing their networks and fleets....

Anyway, it´s very good news for Airbus and Lion Air.


User currently offlineairboe From San Marino, joined Jan 2011, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days ago) and read 13147 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Airbus may have better availability for the neo than Boeing for the MAX (EIS is at least a year earlier, so that's some 400-500 extra deliveries) and/or Lion Air just wants to spread things between both OEMs

  

Further has it been reported, that the "sale and lease back rates" for the A321 is a lot more appealing than for the B739, - this could be another reason.

KR



keep it free of the propellers
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1652 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12882 times:

Seems to be a common strategy.. Ordering from one manufacturer leads to over reliance.. Look at Ryanair now. They have pretty much burnt their bridges with Boeing by being such ****s and have no fall back. DY ordered a large number of NEOs as well as 738s.


Next Flights: LGW-SVG (738-DY), SVG-LHR (319-BA), LHR-HKG (388-BA), HKG-SYD (333-CX), SYD-HKG (333-CX), HKG-LHR (388-BA)
User currently offlineUA735WL From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10101 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 10):

Let us not forget that while Boeing HAS sold a huge amount of 737s this year, in terms of total orders, the MAX still trails the NEO by around 500 orders.


Also, did Airbus give Lionair a discount on this order? I know they have been chasing this order since last year?

[Edited 2013-01-10 06:21:10]


"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" -Tex Johnston
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10022 times:

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 19):
Let us not forget that while Boeing HAS sold a huge amount of 737s this year, in terms of total orders, the MAX still trails the NEO by around 500 orders.

Better make that 600 .. on the spot ..., not inculded this order.


User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 633 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9879 times:

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 19):
Also, did Airbus give Lionair a discount on this order? I know they have been chasing this order since last year?

No, they will surely pay the catalog price   


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30410 posts, RR: 84
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9345 times:
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Quoting sxf24 (Reply 15):
I really wonder how Lion Air will finance all of these planes.

Perhaps Airbus is offering support in that area and that helped them choose the neo instead of taking additional MAX.



Quoting airboe (Reply 17):
Further has it been reported, that the "sale and lease back rates" for the A321 is a lot more appealing than for the B739, - this could be another reason.

The 737NG family has slightly higher average values and lease rates than the A320 family so one should expect sale and leaseback rates to be slightly higher for the 737-900ER.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9463 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8207 times:

It amazes me that an airline with 93 planes can secure financing commitments for over 500 on order. That is a lot of capital. Unless Airbus is willing to take orders without any credit (which is possible), and small deposits, I just simply don't see where the money is coming from. It sounds like an incredibly risky investment to offer this much credit to a company that is only 13 years old and is committed to 500% expansion.

Maybe it is my American mind that makes me see that as unrealistic. We've seen investors jump into Southeast Asia before. I am just amazed creditors are willing to back both Air Asia and Lion Air's 500% expansion plans. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can reflect on if the market is actually growing at that rate or we will end up in a bubble with overcapacity.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineUnited885 From Germany, joined Apr 2011, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7862 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 23):
It amazes me that an airline with 93 planes can secure financing commitments for over 500 on order.

That amazed me too. The question for me is, where should they be based in the futur? I don´t think that CGK can handle a fleet with the size of about 500 aircrafts...



I haven´t been everywhere, but it´s on my list.
25 Stitch : Air Asia is 16 years old and they have 100 planes in service and almost another 400 on order and yet I don't recall the same level of skepticism abou
26 tommy525 : Perhaps the Airlines have a new strategy. Talk huge numbers and get the per unit for way less. The game then becomes whether they get delivered ! But
27 packsonflight : On top of that the leasing companies are out of the game.
28 Post contains images mandala499 : Rumors inside at the moment is that this Airbus order will not be for Malindo, Batik, nor Lion Air. More likely is that the orders will be for 3rd pa
29 Stitch : So Lion Air is getting into the leasing business?
30 Post contains images Hamlet69 : They're not the first airline to do so. And they won't be the last, either. . . Hamlet69
31 astuteman : If this is even remotely relevant in a contest between the NEO and the MAX I'd be amazed. Availability is almost certainly far more likely to be the
32 Post contains images Stitch : Well I wrote that only to provide a contrasting opinion to the original statement by airboe. As to how relevant they are to the new models coming out
33 astuteman : In Airbus's defence, this is territory that is being well trodden by Boeing first........ Rgds
34 Post contains images mandala499 : One well known inside source in Lion Air gorup has said such... but it won't be Lion Air itself, but a company by Lion Air's CEO. Several other sourc
35 Lutfi : Yep, Lion Air group has an in house leasing firm based in Singapore, so far though have only been leasing to themselves
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