Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Lion Air To Order Over 200 A320neo - Report  
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15202 times:

Looks like LionAir is shopping for a few more planes 

“Lion Air is said to have finalised a large order of A320neos before the end of the year [2012],” the paper said on Wednesday, adding that the order may be for as many as 220 planes."
http://www.english.rfi.fr/asia-pacif...s-lion-air-order-over-200-airbuses

(credit to Leeham for posting the link via twitter)

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15174 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Been rumored for some time for their Malindo Air operation.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26026 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15159 times:

Yes this seemingly has been in works already for a while with the CEO last year stating they were seriously considering the NEO.

I note you started the same thread back then....

Lion Air Considering A320neo Order (by flood Nov 27 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4864 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15132 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting flood (Thread starter):
Looks like LionAir is shopping for a few more planes

So with 239 B737's ordered (mostly 737-MAX) and most likely up to 220 A320-NEO's, they show a spectacular growth. The numbers by themselves are incredible. But good for all involved if this order is indeed finalized.  .


User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2315 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15098 times:

I will go out on a limb and guarantee that Boeing did not win the 2012 orders race. Between this and the EK order they'll pip Boeing by just enough.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12173 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15016 times:

Airbus has said nothing about any JT order in the 9 Jan. 2013 press release page. They only talk about the 5 X A-320NEOs and 5 X A-321NEOs for ME was signed today.

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...r-for-ten-a320neo-family-aircraft/

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 14986 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
I note you started the same thread back then....

Indeed I did. But all initial reports indicated they were looking to possibly purchase "only" additional 100 aircraft. I never anticipated such a potentially large order given the number of 737s they already have coming as well.


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 14921 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Airbus has said nothing about any JT order in the 9 Jan. 2013 press release page. They only talk about the 5 X A-320NEOs and 5 X A-321NEOs for ME was signed today.

I indicated in the the title it was according to the report. It's not a firm order announced by Airbus and I don't believe they release their final 2012 until the 17th (?) of this month.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12173 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 14750 times:

Quoting wingman (Reply 4):
I will go out on a limb and guarantee that Boeing did not win the 2012 orders race. Between this and the EK order they'll pip Boeing by just enough.

That limb is about to be cut off from under you. Neither this order, nor any EK order for A-380s are firm. EK is only "considering" ordering 30 more A-388s. They have not ordered them, yet.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...rjumbos-for-network-expansion.html


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14527 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting wingman (Reply 4):
I will go out on a limb and guarantee that Boeing did not win the 2012 orders race. Between this and the EK order they'll pip Boeing by just enough.

Even if EK and Malindo Air placed those orders in 2012, it would still only be around half of what Airbus needed at the end of November to match, much less exceed, Boeing.


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14402 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Even if EK and Malindo Air placed those orders in 2012, it would still only be around half of what Airbus needed at the end of November to match, much less exceed, Boeing.

Agree, it's completely unrealistic... Boeing has an insurmountable lead.

I do anticipate the Lion Air order to be firmed, however. But there too we don't know what the order would entail. With the 220 figure floating around, I could just as easily see 120 + 100 options in the works. For them to order another 200+ firm aircraft would be incredible, regardless of Malindo... in both a positive and negative sense.


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14298 times:

Woh ... just another 200 frames.
 
Cant wait to see if this is confirmed!


User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13973 times:

Quoting wingman (Reply 4):

My arithmetic may slightly off but Airbus would need almost need to bag 600 planes to be tied with Boeing.

Back to topic though, with Boeing increasing their assembly rate and Airbuses keeping even, relatively, why would Lion Air jump ship? I doubt A needs to discount the NEO at all if it selling so well. Must be something else.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13957 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 12):
Back to topic though, with Boeing increasing their assembly rate and Airbuses keeping even, relatively, why would Lion Air jump ship?

Airbus may have better availability for the neo than Boeing for the MAX (EIS is at least a year earlier, so that's some 400-500 extra deliveries) and/or Lion Air just wants to spread things between both OEMs.


User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13935 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):

So should this materialize, the NEO would be sold out until when?


User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13892 times:

I really wonder how Lion Air will finance all of these planes. No bank or lessor is willing to have such significant exposure to one customer. Even an airline as successful as Emirates has to work very hard to find enough financing.

User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13453 times:

What I really wonder is if they will find place to "park" all this planes, Jakarta Airport and many other airport in the Area are very busy and i´m not sure if the infrastructure will develop as fast as Lion Air, Wings Air, Citilink, Air Asia and other are developing their networks and fleets....

Anyway, it´s very good news for Airbus and Lion Air.


User currently offlineairboe From San Marino, joined Jan 2011, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13386 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Airbus may have better availability for the neo than Boeing for the MAX (EIS is at least a year earlier, so that's some 400-500 extra deliveries) and/or Lion Air just wants to spread things between both OEMs

  

Further has it been reported, that the "sale and lease back rates" for the A321 is a lot more appealing than for the B739, - this could be another reason.

KR



keep it free of the propellers
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1789 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13121 times:

Seems to be a common strategy.. Ordering from one manufacturer leads to over reliance.. Look at Ryanair now. They have pretty much burnt their bridges with Boeing by being such ****s and have no fall back. DY ordered a large number of NEOs as well as 738s.


Next Flights: LHR-IAH (744-BA); MSY-ATL (752-DL); ATL-LGA (320-DL); JFK-LHR (744-BA)
User currently offlineUA735WL From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10340 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 10):

Let us not forget that while Boeing HAS sold a huge amount of 737s this year, in terms of total orders, the MAX still trails the NEO by around 500 orders.


Also, did Airbus give Lionair a discount on this order? I know they have been chasing this order since last year?

[Edited 2013-01-10 06:21:10]


"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" -Tex Johnston
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10261 times:

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 19):
Let us not forget that while Boeing HAS sold a huge amount of 737s this year, in terms of total orders, the MAX still trails the NEO by around 500 orders.

Better make that 600 .. on the spot ..., not inculded this order.


User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 10118 times:

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 19):
Also, did Airbus give Lionair a discount on this order? I know they have been chasing this order since last year?

No, they will surely pay the catalog price   


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9584 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 15):
I really wonder how Lion Air will finance all of these planes.

Perhaps Airbus is offering support in that area and that helped them choose the neo instead of taking additional MAX.



Quoting airboe (Reply 17):
Further has it been reported, that the "sale and lease back rates" for the A321 is a lot more appealing than for the B739, - this could be another reason.

The 737NG family has slightly higher average values and lease rates than the A320 family so one should expect sale and leaseback rates to be slightly higher for the 737-900ER.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9706 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8446 times:

It amazes me that an airline with 93 planes can secure financing commitments for over 500 on order. That is a lot of capital. Unless Airbus is willing to take orders without any credit (which is possible), and small deposits, I just simply don't see where the money is coming from. It sounds like an incredibly risky investment to offer this much credit to a company that is only 13 years old and is committed to 500% expansion.

Maybe it is my American mind that makes me see that as unrealistic. We've seen investors jump into Southeast Asia before. I am just amazed creditors are willing to back both Air Asia and Lion Air's 500% expansion plans. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can reflect on if the market is actually growing at that rate or we will end up in a bubble with overcapacity.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineUnited885 From Germany, joined Apr 2011, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8101 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 23):
It amazes me that an airline with 93 planes can secure financing commitments for over 500 on order.

That amazed me too. The question for me is, where should they be based in the futur? I don´t think that CGK can handle a fleet with the size of about 500 aircrafts...



I haven´t been everywhere, but it´s on my list.
25 Stitch : Air Asia is 16 years old and they have 100 planes in service and almost another 400 on order and yet I don't recall the same level of skepticism abou
26 tommy525 : Perhaps the Airlines have a new strategy. Talk huge numbers and get the per unit for way less. The game then becomes whether they get delivered ! But
27 packsonflight : On top of that the leasing companies are out of the game.
28 Post contains images mandala499 : Rumors inside at the moment is that this Airbus order will not be for Malindo, Batik, nor Lion Air. More likely is that the orders will be for 3rd pa
29 Stitch : So Lion Air is getting into the leasing business?
30 Post contains images Hamlet69 : They're not the first airline to do so. And they won't be the last, either. . . Hamlet69
31 astuteman : If this is even remotely relevant in a contest between the NEO and the MAX I'd be amazed. Availability is almost certainly far more likely to be the
32 Post contains images Stitch : Well I wrote that only to provide a contrasting opinion to the original statement by airboe. As to how relevant they are to the new models coming out
33 astuteman : In Airbus's defence, this is territory that is being well trodden by Boeing first........ Rgds
34 Post contains images mandala499 : One well known inside source in Lion Air gorup has said such... but it won't be Lion Air itself, but a company by Lion Air's CEO. Several other sourc
35 Lutfi : Yep, Lion Air group has an in house leasing firm based in Singapore, so far though have only been leasing to themselves
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Gulf Air To Order 8 X A320 posted Sun Jan 13 2008 02:41:11 by ENU
Lion Air To Open Australian And Thai Operations posted Wed Jan 9 2008 16:55:03 by Aussie_
Jeju Air To Order B737-800 posted Thu Dec 27 2007 01:10:59 by Flying-Tiger
Arik Air To Order B748 Or A380 posted Sun Oct 14 2007 23:37:36 by Flying-Tiger
Atlas Air To Order Next Generation Freighters posted Mon Aug 14 2006 16:20:47 by PanAm_DC10
Oman Air To Order Widebodies posted Sat Feb 25 2006 13:37:13 by B742
Gulf Air To Take Over Management Of BAH posted Fri Jan 20 2006 00:15:26 by GF-A330
Oman Air To Order The 787 posted Tue Apr 19 2005 01:44:27 by Horus
Lion Air To Lease Halim Perdanakusuma posted Mon Nov 8 2004 01:30:06 by Cwapilot
Lion Air To Take 734, MD90 posted Wed Sep 29 2004 16:13:16 by Flying-Tiger