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DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy  
User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6208 times:

This morning driving into work I saw the morning BA 772 banking out of BOS above the Financial District for the early 8am to LHR. With AA also having a morning departure to LHR (currently a 757) which will be dropped in the coming months, it got me thinking about the new DL/VS relationship. I was curious about the two possible scenarios and curious others' feedback:

1). DL re-times their current BOS-LHR from evening to morning, replacing AA's flight and letting VS upgauge to daily 744 to handle those passengers.

2). Or, does anyone think DL will keep it's current schedules (as will VS) and just add a morning 757, basically keeping the same current capacity with AA?

Personally, I think DL having a morning flight on a 757 to connect with any potential evening VS flights would be a strategic move. Wouldn't this give access to flights to JNB, CPT, HKG, DEL, BOM?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5319 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5995 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Thread starter):
1). DL re-times their current BOS-LHR from evening to morning, replacing AA's flight and letting VS upgauge to daily 744 to handle those passengers.
Quoting clrd4t8koff (Thread starter):
Personally, I think DL having a morning flight on a 757 to connect with any potential evening VS flights would be a strategic move. Wouldn't this give access to flights to JNB, CPT, HKG, DEL, BOM?

A day flight BOS-LHR wou;d indeed allow connections for DEL/ACC/DXB etc.... woudl probably land too late to connect ot JNB/CPT though.

BOM is already well connected by the current BOS flight with VS ie it is a day departure EX LHR not a night one like DEL.


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5930 times:

What is the likelihood of DL yielding this route to its partner and VS upping to 2x daily BOS-LHR?  

User currently onlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5848 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Thread starter):
1). DL re-times their current BOS-LHR from evening to morning, replacing AA's flight and letting VS upgauge to daily 744 to handle those passengers.
Quoting ASA (Reply 2):
What is the likelihood of DL yielding this route to its partner and VS upping to 2x daily BOS-LHR?

The 800 lb. gorilla EK is most likely coming to BOS. May want to keep the capacity low but the morning DL 757 may not be a bad idea.


User currently offlinehigherflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Thread starter):
2). Or, does anyone think DL will keep it's current schedules (as will VS) and just add a morning 757, basically keeping the same current capacity with AA?
Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 3):
May want to keep the capacity low but the morning DL 757 may not be a bad idea.

The problem with the 757 on the route for DL is that one of the major marketing initiatives for LHR is the all lie-flat product in the front cabin. The 757 doesn't have the lie-flat beds. When DL was flying the 757 BOS-LHR, the front cabin wasn't sold (it was considered an all Y flight).


User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5558 times:

Quoting higherflyer (Reply 4):
When DL was flying the 757 BOS-LHR, the front cabin wasn't sold (it was considered an all Y flight).


So they've already broken the trend of all lie-flat to LHR then? If there's a market for it and money to be made, what would stop them from doing it again?


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5511 times:

I think the best approach would be to let VS serve BOS with 2 A330 lights. A later flight into BOS, which would be the morning flight into LHR.

User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 5):
So they've already broken the trend of all lie-flat to LHR then?

No, it's just speculation, here on A.net.  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

Quoting VS11 (Reply 6):

I think the best approach would be to let VS serve BOS with 2 A330 lights. A later flight into BOS, which would be the morning flight into LHR.

That would be sweet. Not that long ago both AA and BA's morning flights were on 772's. My guess is that the market is there for another larger aircraft and the A333 might be it. However, I'd be happy for DL to bring back a 2nd daily on a 757 and run it in the morning.


User currently offlineprost From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1249 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

I thought DL was putting lie flats on their trans atlantic 757s:

http://thepointsguy.com/2012/11/lie-...to-delta-transcontinental-flights/


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5223 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 8):
That would be sweet. Not that long ago both AA and BA's morning flights were on 772's. My guess is that the market is there for another larger aircraft and the A333 might be it. However, I'd be happy for DL to bring back a 2nd daily on a 757 and run it in the morning.

A refurbished DL 757 will make sense for the morning LHR flight. Summertime, they should be able to fill in bigger planes though.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5108 times:
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Quoting prost (Reply 9):
I thought DL was putting lie flats on their trans atlantic 757s:

Yes, all 18 75Es will have flat-beds, but they won't even start till 2014, which is just as well, since they don't expect full approvals on both sides of the pond for the DL-VS JV until the end of 2013 anyway, which means any JV metal-neutral type of flying between the two won't happen till 2014...


User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4932 times:

One could theorize that, eventually, traffic on the Boston-Heathrow route might plateau as new airlines come in and over-fly the UK entirely. Emirates and Turkish to name two, Qatar a possible third.

User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3994 times:

I think it's funny that effective 3/31 with the summer European flight season starting, Delta is changing their LHR flight number to 11/12, same as VS's from BOS.

User currently onlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 12):
One could theorize that, eventually, traffic on the Boston-Heathrow route might plateau as new airlines come in and over-fly the UK entirely. Emirates and Turkish to name two, Qatar a possible third.

I think traffic will be going down slightly once they arrive but then rebound if global air traffic continues to climb. Can anyone recall off hand if BOS-LHR seats are lower for 2013 as compared to 2012, as well as comparing 2011 to 2012.

As an aside, it would be interesting to see if in 10-20 years if we are having this same conversation about an African carrier coming into BOS and how it would affect BA/LH/AF and TK/EK/QR.


User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 14):
Can anyone recall off hand if BOS-LHR seats are lower for 2013 as compared to 2012, as well as comparing 2011 to 2012.

I think lower:

3x 757s > one more additional BA flight (777 or 747, doesn't matter...still a net loss)
VS went from a A340-600 to an A330...that's a loss, too, right?
DL went from 2x daily to 1x daily.

So my guess is that 2013 will have fewer seats than 2012.

Maybe Aer Lingus saw this and that's why they added a lot of lift to Ireland....to capture some of the people who really want to go to London.


User currently onlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8666 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 3):
The 800 lb. gorilla EK is most likely coming to BOS.

That's all relative and I don't see that affecting DL's/VS's BOS-LHR route all that much. For one, EK doesn't even come close to having the FF base and corporate contracts that DL has on the BOS side. And secondly, DL's/VS's BOS-LHR route is primarily O&D given that DL has little feed at LHR by virtue of it not being a SkyTeam hub, and VS is predominantly a O&D carrier. They don't even serve Europe from LHR. If anything, EK will have an impact on the BOS-AMS (DL) and BOS-CDG (AF) routes.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 12):
One could theorize that, eventually, traffic on the Boston-Heathrow route might plateau as new airlines come in and over-fly the UK entirely. Emirates and Turkish to name two, Qatar a possible third.

I'm not so sure. I believe that international travel to/from Boston is predominantly to/from Europe. That's the traffic that drives BOS-LHR. There's another thread out there about LH's domination of the US-India market that shows how much more of that traffic LH carries over BA, and with AF a distant 3rd. So if anything, LH will be impacted the most in the long run.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 14):
I think traffic will be going down slightly once they arrive but then rebound if global air traffic continues to climb.

Maybe, especially for the LH group (LH and LX), which is the largest carrier connecting BOS to Asia.


User currently offlinemarkboston From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

Is AA dropping BOS-LHR entirely? I just checked flights for travel in June and I don't see any flights on AA metal-- everything seems to be operated by BA.

User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5319 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 15):
VS went from a A340-600 to an A330...that's a loss, too, right?

VS usually switch from a 340-300 (winter) to a 340-600 in summer.... though I believe this winter it switched to the higher capacity A330-300 instead of the 340-300.


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 2104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2539 times:

With regards to what DL/VS do it will be interesting. DL operates BOS-LHR using one of the slot pairs that AA/BA had to surrender under their ATI deal. It was two flights, but it handed one slot pair back. Now DL could add back a second Daily flight and get the LHR slot from AA/BA. This could either be to make VS/DL 3x Daily on BOS-LHR, or to replace VS on the route with VS reusing the LHR slot for another routes under the VS/DL joint venture.

Quoting markboston (Reply 17):
Is AA dropping BOS-LHR entirely? I just checked flights for travel in June and I don't see any flights on AA metal-- everything seems to be operated by BA.

Yes, this Winter AA operates 3x Daily 757 on BOS-LHR, alongside 3x Daily 772/744 BA flights.
In the Summer this becomes 4xDaily 772/744 on BA. BA drops 1xDaily 744 on LHR-MIA (picked up by AA on the 772 using one of their BOS slots) to add the fourth BOS flight. The other two AA slots are going to US (MIA-CLT-LHR) and DL (DFW-ATL-LHR).



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