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Colombian Aviation thread 12  
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12955 times:

So we enter the new year with open skies towards the United States. Many carriers have beefed up their services starting this christmas season and will continue to do so during the rest of the year, here's an account of the available Colombia-US flights:

BOG:

MIA AA 3x (763, 757, 738) AV 3x (A332, A319 2x), LA 1x (A320)
FLL AV 1x (A320) NK 1x (A320) B6 1x (A320)
MCO AV 1x (A319) B6 1x (A320)
JFK AV 2x (A332, A319), DL 1x (73W)
EWR UA 1x (757)
IAH UA 2x (757 2x)
ATL DL 2x (757, 73W)
IAD AV 1x (A319)

soon

DFW AA 1x

MDE:

MIA AV 1x (A320) AA 1x (738)
FLL NK 1x (A319) soon B6 1x
JFK AV 1x (A319)

CLO:

MIA AV 1x (A320) AA 1x (738)
JFK AV 1x (A319 via MDE)

CTG:

MIA AV 1x (A318)
FLL NK 1x (A319)
JFK 3x weekly B6 (A320)

BAQ:

MIA AV 1x (A320)

AXM:

FLL 4x weekly NK (A319)

Hopefully there will be more to come!

Also, here's an interesting article from CAPA on the VIVA branded carriers, including VIVA Colombia:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ponders-third-viva-franchise-93805

222 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13003 times:

The dedicated TA/LR SJO-MDE non-stop service is no longer available since TA SAL-MDE 4x weekly started on January 02nd.
TA/LR SJO-PTY-MDE 7x weekly commenced in the same date.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12949 times:

Hello All,

First, I'd like to wish everyone a Happy new year and may 2013 bring a lot of joy, happiness and health to all of you and your loved ones.

On the aviation side of things, there is a strong rumour going around AV, the company is supposed to be working on a new Certificate of Operations for a new company, according to this rumour, AV would drop all turboprop flying and focus on flying jets only (just as it once was back from the late 60's to the early 90's).
This "new" company would take over all of Av's regional flights in a sort of feeder scheme to its bigger trunk routes, they would also take Av's newly acquired ATR's as the backbone of their fleet.
Even the name "Avianca Express" has been tossed around.

Your Thoughts?



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2376 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12791 times:

Avianca Express, really? Sounds appropriate if it wasn't already being used for the AV's cargo/courier service; although I just saw that the web page, www.AviancaExpress.com is currently "on maintenance"  


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12762 times:

What are the latest news on VVC Villavicencio Vanguardia Airport "the other Bogotá airport"?


I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days ago) and read 12730 times:

Happy New Year to everybody here as well and looking forward to more positive developments for the Colombian aviation. I'm still waiting to read about passenger experiences at the new terminal in BOG. I got lucky to experience the old terminal building in September of last year and I'm looking forward to the new terminal building in the future (a few years from now)!!!

A388


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12460 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 1):
The dedicated TA/LR SJO-MDE non-stop service is no longer available since TA SAL-MDE 4x weekly started on January 02nd.
TA/LR SJO-PTY-MDE 7x weekly commenced in the same date.

So the entire AV-TA international schedule from MDE right now is:

daily MIA A320
daily PTY-SJO E190
daily JFK A319
daily UIO-LIM A320
3x weekly LIM E190
4x weekly SAL E190

Quoting trent772 (Reply 2):
This "new" company would take over all of Av's regional flights in a sort of feeder scheme to its bigger trunk routes, they would also take Av's newly acquired ATR's as the backbone of their fleet.
Even the name "Avianca Express" has been tossed around.

This is interesting, although I wonder if really necessary...there might be some cost savings on the salaries side but that's all I can think off.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 4):
What are the latest news on VVC Villavicencio Vanguardia Airport "the other Bogotá airport"?

Villavicencio is NOT the "other" Bogotá airport. There was a rumor in the nineties that it would be used as such but nothing happened since then, and nothing will happen now. As has been explained before, the road to Villaviencio is very unreliable, and while it would normally take just two hours to get from Bogotá to the city, traffic jams and mountain slides can easily turn the trip into a ten hour ordeal. That is why, at least in the forseeable future, VVC will not serve as Bogotá's alternate airport.

In the city's airport master plan that is being developed, there is talk of building a new airport for private/air taxi and military operations somewhere in the savannah but definitely there are no plans whatsoever to adequate VVC for it to serve as a secondary Bogotá airport.

On another note, AF will be celebrating 60 years of uninterrupted operations in Colombia in 2013, making it the oldest continuously operating foreign airline in the country. I didn't know AFKL's head office for the andean countries was located in Bogotá:

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...anos-de-operacion-en-colombia.html


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12365 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 6):
AF will be celebrating 60 years of uninterrupted operations in Colombia in 2013

Air France's Lockheed Constellation started their operations in Bogota, back in 1953...



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 12242 times:

Interesting article from CAPA relating to our thread starting topic:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-by-jetblue-and-lan-colombia-94110

What I don't get is why they say the growth is being led by B6 and LA, when AV just this december added a third flight to MIA, a weekly frequency to JFK to round up two daily flights and 3 extra weekly frequencies to MCO to make it daily, all from BOG.

Also, NK and AV do not compete on the CTG-FLL market. It's clear that AV flies to MIA and NK flies to FLL from the heroic city.

But otherwise an interesting read.

[Edited 2013-01-15 08:52:12]

User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 12198 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):
I'm still waiting to read about passenger experiences at the new terminal in BOG

Int he last 2 months I've been through the new terminal twice. So far its been good, emigration and inmigration lines almost non-existant, nice gate areas (lounges are for both AV and LA still temporary), and lots of duty-free shops. Downsides are limited food offerings once you cleared customs and bags don't come out as fast as one could wish (but nothing like they take in MIA really). Overall, my experience has been positive, and waaay better than the old terminal.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
What I don't get is why they say the growth is being led by B6 and LA, when AV just this december added a third flight to MIA

Did LA changed the uquipment used in the route to the 767?

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 7):
there might be some cost savings on the salaries side but that's all I can think off.

I don't really think that could be the reaon really. I can't think of any reason at all......



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 12170 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
Int he last 2 months I've been through the new terminal twice. So far its been good, emigration and inmigration lines almost non-existant, nice gate areas (lounges are for both AV and LA still temporary), and lots of duty-free shops. Downsides are limited food offerings once you cleared customs and bags don't come out as fast as one could wish (but nothing like they take in MIA really). Overall, my experience has been positive, and waaay better than the old terminal.

Finally a first experience, nice. What I have seen on photos the new terminal indeed does look much bigger with lots more space and glass. Are there areas where you can take nice aircraft photos too once you've passed all the checks and are there public places such as restaurants or spectator areas to view and photograph aircraft (landside) just as the old terminal has (between the domestic and international terminal)?

A388


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 12105 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
Did LA changed the uquipment used in the route to the 767?

No, they haven't. It should come soon, but it's surprising how the article names them as "leaders" of Colombia-US route expansion. B6, I get it, they have been the US carrier with the most expansion lately, but LAN?

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
I don't really think that could be the reaon really. I can't think of any reason at all......

Who knows, maybe they'll explain it in the next earnings call.


User currently offlineMATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 12050 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):
This is interesting, although I wonder if really necessary...there might be some cost savings on the salaries side but that's all I can think off.
Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
I don't really think that could be the reaon really. I can't think of any reason at all......
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 11):

It’s actually really simple. They want to reduce costs by making exactly the same thing that IB did with Iberia Express. AV pilots might not have the greatest salaries in the world, but they do have lots of benefits like a really good health plan (even better than pre-paid medicine), or the superb meal plan to name just a few. Of course this things cost a lot of money to the company. Avianca Express pilots would not even earn less money i think, but they will not have all the benefits and “commodities” that AV pilots have. also (and I think this is really were the trick is), is that AV had their pilots trained and type rated in 3 or 4 different aircraft thanks to the expansion and to the seniority scheme. So there were even pilots who flew the Fokker 50 for 2 months, then transitioned to the MD83 and 6 months later they were flaying the A320. so the training costs were and are huge.

Now it’s said that the new company will hire mainly Police and Satena pilots mainly who are currently type rated in the ATR equipment. It is said tough that the First Officers will transition to AV eventually following the seniority list.
This is merely pure speculation of course because nothing official has been said. Now the other rumor is that Mr Efromovich is desperately looking to buy more than a regional airline an operation certificate to establish the new AV Express as starting an airline from scratch takes way to long. How ironic as a year ago they finally merged SAM making AV the sole operator and now they want to buy an operation certificate…

Oh well, we will see what happens, but one thing is certain, if this new company ever takes off, then difficult days will come ahead for AV pilots, F/A and all the flight crews of the airline. Unfortunately that’s where the industry is headed in the near future, old days where flying was all luxurious are gone…


my two cents.

MATURRO727

[Edited 2013-01-15 18:06:04]

[Edited 2013-01-15 18:13:25]

User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 12020 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 10):
Finally a first experience, nice. What I have seen on photos the new terminal indeed does look much bigger with lots more space and glass. Are there areas where you can take nice aircraft photos too once you've passed all the checks and are there public places such as restaurants or spectator areas to view and photograph aircraft (land-side) just as the old terminal has (between the domestic and international terminal)?

I have travelled through the terminal now on three occasions. All my experiences have been very similar, check in really depends on the airline you travel. Avianca really has increased the check in staff and they are also incentivizing the use of machines for check-in. In that sense I have never seen much queues at any time. I have seen very long queues on Iberia, Air France and Aeromexico which is sad to see how they are not using the available counters to benefit customers.

The shops in the check in area are good, a little bit of everything except maybe a good book store. Yet the lady at the book store in the old terminal told me they would have a shop in the domestic side of the new terminal. Definitely this is not a land-side terminal as the old terminal was, although the mezzanine in the domestic terminal will have a larger option of food and shops, the viewing area will be more limited than in the old airport. In the existing new terminal there is no real viewing area as in the old one.

Eating options until they open the domestic side is limited to Creppes and Waffles and Kokoriko Rotisserie. Going through passport control is extremely easy, far more operational booths than passengers so hardly any queues even during peak hours. On the air-side quite nice shops a very large shopping area in Attenza with many brand names inside. Also a large La Riviera which together make a large shopping avenue as you come out of security.

There is also a food mezzanine with Presto Burgers, Burger King and a new Italian chain called Alfredo´s owned by Kokoriko. Also you find a Juan Valdez and another Kokoriko new chain called American Bistro in the main level next to the array of shops lining up the boarding gates.

The VIP lounges are also under construction both for LAN and Avianca (which will be the One World and Star Alliance lounges). There are several hot spots for recharging phones and laptops, also several moving walk ways that take you to the end of the airport where there are some escalators that take you down to the remote boarding gates.

I have used the gate with the double boarding which basically uses adjacent doors at the same desk but the ramps head on opposite directions and then connect each to a different jetway. The ramps do take away a lot of viewing space out the windows at the gates, so not that easy to find good views into the ramps, especially for an all glass airport.

Upon arrival, it never seems very crowded and I have arrived at peak times, passport control has always been a breeze in my experience, which means I have had to wait a little for bags every time, not much though except on my Avianca flight which took about 20 minute wait. Customs varies greatly from two DIAN officials and a slower moving queue that lead to the scanners, to 4 DIAN officials and things moving very quickly. Still nothing bad. As you exit the space is a little crowded with those waiting and the taxi rank seems very unorganized with people coming in from the old terminal to queue at the same space. The large windows looking into the luggage carousels are very good as the keep most of the waiting families and friends away from the Arrivals exit area.

Looking forward to the opening of the domestic side, my understanding is that the check in and luggage hall will begin operations later on this year prior to finalization of the construction of the domestic piers, which will basically mean that the old terminal will only hold gates for some time before its demolition.


User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 12015 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
Did LA changed the uquipment used in the route to the 767?

Not yet, the certification is under way by Aerocivil, the flights in 767 from BOG should be operational by April to GRU, SCL and MIA followed by LAX hopefully before the middle of the year. Shall wait and see.


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months ago) and read 11901 times:

Quoting Bogota (Reply 13):
There is also a food mezzanine with Presto Burgers, Burger King and a new Italian chain called Alfredo´s owned by Kokoriko. Also you find a Juan Valdez and another Kokoriko new chain called American Bistro in the main level next to the array of shops lining up the boarding gates.

IMO, airside options are very limited so far. Hope this changes.

Quoting A388 (Reply 10):
Are there areas where you can take nice aircraft photos too once you've passed all the checks and are there public places such as restaurants or spectator areas to view and photograph aircraft (landside) just as the old terminal has (between the domestic and international terminal)?

I took some pics with my phone, very limited view actually, but what is interesting are the views ont he runway.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 14):
The VIP lounges are also under construction both for LAN and Avianca

I used the AV lounge on both ocassions. Really limited, but understandable. Hopefully the new one is open when I have my trip to MAD next April.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 12):
It’s actually really simple. They want to reduce costs by making exactly the same thing that IB did with Iberia Express.

I was afraid that was the ype of move AV is thinking with AV Express.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 12):
Now it’s said that the new company will hire mainly Police and Satena pilots mainly who are currently type rated in the ATR equipment

I wonder if those pilots can easily drop off the police.....don't they have some type of contract or something like that?

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 12):
Oh well, we will see what happens, but one thing is certain, if this new company ever takes off, then difficult days will come ahead for AV pilots, F/A and all the flight crews of the airline. Unfortunately that’s where the industry is headed in the near future, old days where flying was all luxurious are gone…

Oh sure. But AV employees have to be grateful they work for a serious company with a growing, profitable business plan, unlike many big players around the world, or even, this same company a few years ago that was in the verge of bankrupcy.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 13):
So there were even pilots who flew the Fokker 50 for 2 months, then transitioned to the MD83 and 6 months later they were flaying the A320. so the training costs were and are huge

Probably they spent more time in training than actually flying........but I guess those are the costs of having a completely new type of fleet. In the medium term, that situation will stabilize thanks fto fleet commonality In the future, AV will only have the 787s and the Airbus fleet, assuming AV Express takes control of the turboprop ooperation.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2376 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11865 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):

I posted a small TR with some pics for you. I am not really proud of the TR nor the pics but it will give you a general idea of the new terminal in construction.
New BOG International Terminal Experience (by RICARIZA Jan 16 2013 in Trip Reports)



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11773 times:

jetBlue officially announces Ft. Lauderdale - Medellin service:

B6 041.....FLL 16:45..........MDE 19:04.......Daily......320
B6 040.....MDE 07:05........FLL 11:29.........Daily......320
Effective: June 13th

Regards



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineMATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11747 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
I was afraid that was the ype of move AV is thinking with AV Express.

Everybody is unfortunately. But as I said this is just speculation. Very plausible but still, speculation...

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
I wonder if those pilots can easily drop off the police.....don't they have some type of contract or something like that?

well thay can, they can quit the force or simply retire from active service. im not sure but i think with 20 years of active service you are good to go, most of Satena's crews are actually retaierd air force pilots i think, there are very few civil pilots flying for them so probably the captains will be very seduced to fly for AV Express if it ever happens i think.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
Oh sure. But AV employees have to be grateful they work for a serious company with a growing, profitable business plan, unlike many big players around the world, or even, this same company a few years ago that was in the verge of bankrupcy.

Well people are grateful believe me, but nobody likes when suddenly you start loosing your privileges of being a valuable member of one of the best and most respected companies in LAM or even the world, you sure would not be happy if they take away the superb health plan, or the nice hotels on the layovers and switch them to 3 star hotels. Or take your transportation service to and from the airports etc. I mean, we pilots work our asses off in a tough industry because we sure damn love it, and we love to fly, but seriously it freaks me the hell out to be treated like if anyone can do the job cause its easy as driving a cab. in the near future just because people think that flying a plane suddenly became super easy because automation and advance technology and lots of people think there up to the job.

Although Its true that automation has reduce significantly the work loads to flight crews and tough now days you might not need super airmanship as the old days, you need to be focused and work on your capacities as a leader and as manager of a machine that has thousands of kilograms of fuel and 120 souls onboard. Yes you might not need to land as softer as you can to feel proud of your skills and feed your ego anymore casue probably the autopilot will land thousand times better than you. But when the time comes with a real scenario that the computers itself cant solve then you will experience what really is to be a pilot and what your job is really worth

And is not like AV is bleeding money, as you said there is a solid business plan and they are making profits every quarter. So why suddenly try to change the rules of the game to be even more profitable which will only lead to angry workers feeling that they just got ripped off from everything. Let me tell you something lots of people are fine in trying to help and move forward and not just work for but with the company, they might work their asses off so the company makes even more money, as a team, but what people is not fine with is; is the company trying to be more profitable by taking away their employees benefits and leaving them with barely nothing but their salaries...

but hey, thats just my opinion.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
Probably they spent more time in training than actually flying........but I guess those are the costs of having a completely new type of fleet. In the medium term, that situation will stabilize thanks fto fleet commonality In the future, AV will only have the 787s and the Airbus fleet, assuming AV Express takes control of the turboprop ooperation.

well thats the costs of having a seniority list and a really fast expansion project. take this example, imagine a recently hired FO jumps straight up to the 32S fleet while the FO's of the F50 have to stay in the same aircraft for who knows hoy many more years cuse is cheaper to the company. but they have been working for the company for 2 or more years. and suddenly this guy is making more money flying international or even working on an aircraft with air conditioned or even ice. so what does the company do ? they hire pilots to go directly to the 32S so they dont have to transition to the fokker 50 and pay two type raitings, and let F50 pilots flying the dutch man but automatically matching the salaries of those of the Airbus fleet, plus giving them a monthly per diem average of the whole 32S fleet.

and that has been the problem ever since the expantion since 04, nevertheless they are still making lots of money and consolidating a really good product cause to tell you the truth, AV training has nothing to envy to the big players of the world IMHO.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
assuming AV Express takes control of the turboprop ooperation.

Well that’s the problem again, not only they will shrink the company by cutting turboprop ops, by taking out 7 airframes which are the F50, but also the ATR's will not be part of the AV's fleet either. Meaning pilots will take even longer to transition to the next step in their career. For the seniority list to move two things have to happen: senior pilots retiring or the company bringing more planes. But with AV Express that will be the exact opposite. See what I mean? And that’s not the worst part, what if suddenly this new company wants to operate all the A318 too? And so on, why? Cause its cheaper...

maybe AV pilots wont be touched at all or maybe they will who knows. but if so this is IB Express all over again.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________



http://www.businesstravelerusa.com/a...2-worlda-s-best-in-business-travel

BEST AIRLINE IN LATIN/SOUTH AMERICA: AVIANCA


Congrats to them !


regards.

MATURRO727


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11703 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 17):
B6 041.....FLL 16:45..........MDE 19:04.......Daily......320
B6 040.....MDE 07:05........FLL 11:29.........Daily......320

That looks quite nice if B6 wants to start red-eyes flights between JFK and MDE.
Could B6 A320 take-off from MDE non-stop to JFK around midnight?



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11672 times:

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
And is not like AV is bleeding money, as you said there is a solid business plan and they are making profits every quarter. So why suddenly try to change the rules of the game to be even more profitable which will only lead to angry workers feeling that they just got ripped off from everything. Let me tell you something lots of people are fine in trying to help and move forward and not just work for but with the company, they might work their asses off so the company makes even more money, as a team, but what people is not fine with is; is the company trying to be more profitable by taking away their employees benefits and leaving them with barely nothing but their salaries...

but hey, thats just my opinion.

I understand completely. The industry I work for has been tightening its conditions for us since 2008. And when you think it has stopped, it comes a new round of conditions. Its a worldwide thing, not only locally, just the way it's been with pilots everywhere.

Unfortunately, companies only think in how to improve their margins, but in the process, they go too far and good and valuable employees start jumping to the competition. At the end of the end, keeping hte workforce happy is essential to run a succesful company.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
maybe AV pilots wont be touched at all or maybe they will who knows. but if so this is IB Express all over again.

Any idea what the pilots would do in such case?

It's always nice to have someone involved in the process sharing his toughts. Thanks.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11651 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
IMO, airside options are very limited so far. Hope this changes.

Those restaurants I mentioned are all airside, I have never seen them full. The only place I have seen full is the Juan Valdez, hopefully more coffee shops will open on the extension of the international terminal once they finish it.


User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11594 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 19):
That looks quite nice if B6 wants to start red-eyes flights between JFK and MDE.
Could B6 A320 take-off from MDE non-stop to JFK around midnight?

There's a good idea! LAN uses a densely configured A320 from BOG to GRU taking off at around 6 am. That is a longer distance than MDE-JFK.
Whilst I can quite imagine that LAN has to leave some seats empty on its BOG-GRU flight, MDE that is slightly lower in altitude than BOG and with the shorter distance* for a JFK route, I can't think that there would be severe restrictions.

*GCM distances
BOG-GRU 2688 miles
MDE-JFK 2375 miles


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11580 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 6):
daily UIO-LIM A320
3x weekly LIM E190

as per my understanding it is

4 x UIO-LIM
and
3 x LIM

weekly



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11500 times:

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
most of Satena's crews are actually retaierd air force pilots i think

Actually most of Satena's pilots are retired Aces pilots flying the ATR.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
Although Its true that automation has reduce significantly the work loads to flight crews and tough now days you might not need super airmanship as the old days

I disagree, automation has indeed reduced workloads greatly but with a new set of tools comes the challenge of making them work correctly and to your advantage. So, sure, the cockpits, aircraft systems and navigational aids of today are nothing like the ones from a couple of decades ago but the concept of Airmanship has and will remain intact for a long time.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
But when the time comes with a real scenario that the computers itself cant solve then you will experience what really is to be a pilot and what your job is really worth

That is the essence of being human, and that is something that no machine can replace. That is why you and many other pilots will be required in cockpits for years to come, the Autopilot can't make decisions.
most flights are uneventful and with today's technologically advanced planes many pilots will retire without experiencing a true gut wrenching emergency, but when it happens hopefully the people up front will have a standard set of flying skills and a Superb set of airmanship skills, I believe someone said it best, "A pilot earns a months pay in ten minutes".

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 20):
At the end of the end, keeping hte workforce happy is essential to run a succesful company.

I couldn't agree with you more. A happy employee is a productive employee.
One thing that is hard to believe is that AV is going thru its biggest expansion in history, having the most amazing earnings that nobody ever dreamed of and management is actually making a big push to take some if not most of the employee benefits away, unbelievable.
If avianca was going thru tough times like many other carriers right now, I would be keen on talking about concessions in order to keep my job, any paycheck is better than no paycheck but again AV is living its best years, just unbelievable.

But I think if you analise AV's owner you'll find the answer pretty quick, a guy who is filthy rich and owns many companies, how do you think he has made all of his money? Not exactly by giving it all to his employees, right? You have to step on many people and shatter many dreams to get to the top, and Mr. G is not known around the world as a philantropist actually quite the opposite.

[Edited 2013-01-17 17:17:09]


Pedaling Squares…
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11458 times:

Thanks for all the replies regarding the new BOG terminal. I just have to experience it myself I think. Probably in a few years from now  

A388


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11307 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 23):
as per my understanding it is

4 x UIO-LIM
and
3 x LIM

Thanks for the clarification.

AviancaTaca have received their first A330F through their colombian cargo airline, Tampa Cargo:

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...icialmente-nuevo-airbus-a330f.html

This makes them the first latin american operator of the type.


User currently offlinemartinrpo1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11350 times:

What new international routes could Colombian airports support in the future?
Here are a few ideas, what do you think?
- BOG-ORD (UA or AV)?
- BOG-LHR (AV or BA)?
- BOG-AMS (KL)?
- BOG-DXB (EK)?
- BOG-IST (TK)?
- BOG-LAX (LA or AV)?
- MDE-GRU (LA or AV)?
- MDE-MEX (AM or AV)?
- MDE-DFW (AA)?
- MDE-IAH (UA)?
- MDE-ATL (DL)?
- MDE-MIA (Additional LA)?
- MTR-PTY (CM)?
- AXM-PTY (CM)?


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11340 times:

Interesting post martinrpo1!

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-ORD (UA or AV)?

I think that once the BOG hub develops further as a connecting point this route will happen. There is also a substantial colombian community in the Chicago area.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-LHR (AV or BA)?

This will surely be launched by AV once the 787s arrive in 2014. BA could return in the future too I guess. The UK and Italy are the largest O/D markets in Europe from Colombia that don't have non-stop service.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-AMS (KL)?

It could probably happen in the future as an addition to the AF flight to CDG.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-DXB (EK)?

Probably with a stop in CCS in a few years.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-IST (TK)?

Same story as above, but might happen sooner.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-LAX (LA or AV)?

The resumption of this route will probably come in the hands of LA, but I see AV relaunching it one the 787s arrive too.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-GRU (LA or AV)?

Too long/thin, with many connecting options via BOG/LIM/PTY already. Maybe next decade or something.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-MEX (AM or AV)?

This one I also see it starting very soon.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-DFW (AA)?

The MDE-US market is very thin outside the east coast. Doubt it would work.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-IAH (UA)?

Same as above, but it might stand a better chance due to * alliance partnerships and a somewhat larger coolombian community in Houston.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-ATL (DL)?

This one I could see working, as ATL is far more convenient for connecting to the Northeast of the US, Eastern Canada and even the Midwest.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MTR-PTY (CM)?
- AXM-PTY (CM)?

Those two are way too small to even consider for this round of CM expansion, I would put my bets on SMR-PTY first and the consolidation of BGA and CUC into daily flights. Then maybe AXM could be flown due to it's tourism potential, but it's also only 1 hour away by car from PEI, which they already serve. After that, MTR, VUP, PSO could all be potential CM destinations, all those cities having around 400k inhabitants.

To add to your list, BOG-SJU is a route that I see starting very soon. Same case for BOG-MAR and there's already reports that Easyfly is going to restart AUA-BAQ flights. Also, I see a lot of routes that are going to be launched from CTG in the coming years, specially to north america and europe, and I'm sure LIM will return at some point, probably by AV though. BOG-FCO is also a route that IMO has a lot of potential.


User currently offlinemartinrpo1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11275 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28):

BOG-SJU, BOG-FCO, and SMR-PTY have a lot of potential.


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11190 times:

Didn't AA said that it was going tonstart BOG-ORD in 3Q/2013?? I'm sure they said something aout it, no exact dates, but can't find it now.


Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11197 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 30):
Didn't AA said that it was going tonstart BOG-ORD in 3Q/2013?? I'm sure they said something aout it, no exact dates, but can't find it now.

It is BOG-DFW that I heard about.


User currently offlinemartinrpo1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11154 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 30):
Quoting bogota (Reply 31):

DFW-BOG-DFW indeed, daily. Excellent for connecting traffic. I wonder what plane they'll use. 757? Could MDE sustain a 4 weekly DFW-MDE-DFW on a 737? I believe there is enough connecting traffic for this route.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11160 times:

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 32):
DFW-BOG-DFW indeed, daily. Excellent for connecting traffic. I wonder what plane they'll use. 757? Could MDE sustain a 4 weekly DFW-MDE-DFW on a 737? I believe there is enough connecting traffic for this route.

An AA B737-800 may be able to take-off from BOG non-stop to DFW.
The key issue w/ an AA DFW-BOG may be the best possible connections available @ DFW for in- and out-bound passengers. If - for an example - AA wants to get some BOG-NRT traffic, AA must time its DFW-BOG and BOG-DFW accordingly.
IMHO, daily DFW-BOG may be too much in low season and DFW-MDE may be only good as high-season weekend only so focus MIA-MDE on O/D traffic (as MDE-U.S.A. traffic is far too MIA/NYC-centric).



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11140 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 33):
IMHO, daily DFW-BOG may be too much in low season

I don't think so at all. UA is packing two daily 757s to Houston. While arguably it is a larger market, AA can easily take some of that connecting traffic. BOG-North America is a huge market and it's quite underserved. Just with traffic to California, Japan and the midwest plus a little western Canada combined with some O/D (it's there but it's just not that big), DFW can work as a daily flight easily year-round.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 33):
and DFW-MDE may be only good as high-season weekend only so focus

So it wouldn't be good at all, MDE not being a leisure destination.


User currently offlineairliner777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11080 times:

For those of you interested, Tampa Cargo's newest A330-200F is enroute to BOG at this time. Aprox arrival time: 18:00 LCL.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TPA715   


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 10956 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 31):
It is BOG-DFW that I heard about.
Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 32):
DFW-BOG-DFW indeed, daily. Excellent for connecting traffic. I wonder what plane they'll use. 757? Could MDE sustain a 4 weekly DFW-MDE-DFW on a 737? I believe there is enough connecting traffic for this route.

Ohh, yes. My german cousin (alzheimer) playing mind games on me again......

Tehre's been growing rumours on the possibility of TK starting BOG and some of them even mention June. In any case, I bet a stop in CCS on the east bound leg would be necessary, and if the route materialises, that would be great for BOG as it slowly becomes a strong *A in the region, over LIM and PTY.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10933 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 36):
Tehre's been growing rumours on the possibility of TK starting BOG and some of them even mention June

heard the same - suppose to start the 21nd of June.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10950 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 37):
Tehre's been growing rumours on the possibility of TK starting BOG and some of them even mention June

heard the same - suppose to start the 21nd of June.



LH will not like it   



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10915 times:

Quoting LH506 (Reply 38):
LH will not like it

Neither CM   



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10878 times:

Quoting LH506 (Reply 38):
LH will not like it

Stabbed in the back by one of your own alliance members? Sounds bad......

LH has made a bet in the colombian and s. american market with AV/TA in *A and reopening BOG. Now if TK launches BOG and CCS, its gonna be aimed primarily in connecting traffic, thus, competing directly with LH. Although good for us consumers, I wonder how that's gonna be handled within the alliance.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinea300aa From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10872 times:

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 32):
DFW-BOG-DFW indeed, daily. Excellent for connecting traffic. I wonder what plane they'll use. 757? Could MDE sustain a 4 weekly DFW-MDE-DFW on a 737? I believe there is enough connecting traffic for this route.

A 319 for sure...

AA had problems with their B737/8 out of BOG, thats the reason why they switch their 3rd flight to a 757.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10767 times:
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Quoting a300aa (Reply 41):
A 319 for sure...

AA had problems with their B737/8 out of BOG, thats the reason why they switch their 3rd flight to a 757.

How can AA have 738 problems for a flight to Miami, 1500 miles, when AR flies a 737-700 nonstop all the way to EZE ? BOG to EZE is 3000 miles.


User currently offlinea300aa From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10725 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 42):
How can AA have 738 problems for a flight to Miami, 1500 miles, when AR flies a 737-700 nonstop all the way to EZE ? BOG to EZE is 3000 miles.

Flight was always weight restricted.
The 737/7 and the 737/8 uses the same engine but the 800 is heavier. AA configuration used to be for 160 pax, and the only way to operate it out of BOG was at a very low temperature, thats why they scheduled to depart at 1 am.Pilots complain all the time , and AA decide a change of equipment to a 757 with 3 pilots.
Also rumors are that the flight will become daily , not seasonal, due to its high demand and aceptance by paxs.


User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10722 times:

MDE -MIA is also operated with a 738 on a daylight flight. Aeromexico also operates the 738 On a far longer flight from Bogotá .

[Edited 2013-01-21 18:15:04]

User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10679 times:

Quoting a300aa (Reply 43):
Flight was always weight restricted.

I could imagine it was in the cargo side that it had to be restricted and maybe some bags that needed to be left behind, also, the denser 160 seat configuration of AA's 737s can pose a problem.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 42):
How can AA have 738 problems for a flight to Miami, 1500 miles, when AR flies a 737-700 nonstop all the way to EZE ? BOG to EZE is 3000 miles.

The 73G is far more capable at high altitude airports than the 738, as is the A319 compared to the A320.

Quoting bogota (Reply 44):
MDE -MIA is also operated with a 738 on a daylight flight.

MDE is 600 meters lower than BOG is and is a slightly shorter flight.

Quoting bogota (Reply 44):
Aeromexico also operates the 738 On a far longer flight from Bogotá .

Yes this one is true, AM's 738 flies form BOG to MEX, both very high altitude airports, and on a flight usually an hour longer than BOG-MIA. Maybe this has to do with the lower density configuration of AM's 738s and the fact that cargo on the BOG-MEX route is not as important as on the BOG-MIA sector.

Quoting a300aa (Reply 43):
Also rumors are that the flight will become daily , not seasonal, due to its high demand and aceptance by paxs.

Wait, the flight operates daily right now, but is only seasonal. So this means that it will probably become year round, yet it has never operated less than daily even if only during the high season.

I actually had thought this flight was a year-round addition.


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10662 times:

Quoting a300aa (Reply 43):
AA decide a change of equipment to a 757 with 3 pilots.

Any ideas on why 3 pilots for a 3 hour flight?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 45):
The 73G is far more capable at high altitude airports than the 738, as is the A319 compared to the A320.

With 27k engines the difference between the A319 and A320 is negligible at high altitude airports.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 45):
MDE is 600 meters lower than BOG is and is a slightly shorter flight.

It's actually closer to 400mts but they make all the difference in the world, and if flights choose runway 18 for takeoff with a slight downhill slope and lower obstacles planes can lift even more weight, heavy freighters and europe flights do this regularly.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10576 times:

Hello everybody,

I started a thread some time ago about a potential customer for the Bombardier CSeries in South America and I suggested that AV might be the interested airline. This thread, however, was never posted because there was supposed to be another thread also discussing this which I never found.

So this brings me here, has AV shown an interest in ordering the CSeries to replace their A318 fleet? I know that they were interested in evaluating the CSeries together with the ERJ but I haven't heard anything else since then(?)

A388


User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10362 times:

Yesterday I flew on a new interior A320. All grey carpets and all grey leather seating, which look quite nice. The crew told me they are all anxious as the new livery and uniforms should be announced any minute now.

User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10347 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 48):
Yesterday I flew on a new interior A320. All grey carpets and all grey leather seating, which look quite nice. The crew told me they are all anxious as the new livery and uniforms should be announced any minute now.

Interesting, you are refering to AV I assume. I'm looking forward to the new livery!!! I think it will be a minor change, not like the new AA complete livery change. I hope the A318 and A319 will be one of the first aircraft to be painted in AV's new livery 

A388


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10346 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 48):
Yesterday I flew on a new interior A320. All grey carpets and all grey leather seating

Last month, I flew on a 319 BOG-MIA. Surprisingly, it was a very old plane, with no AVOD. I hope AV phases out those oddballs in the fleet when it start receiving newer ones, because it certainly gives a bad impression when comes to product standarization.

Unfortunately, I forgot to get a hold of the reg, but anyone has any idea where that plane could've come from?



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2376 posts, RR: 27
Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10294 times:

Ex-Mexicana, those are the only 319's without AVOD.


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10320 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 50):
Unfortunately, I forgot to get a hold of the reg, but anyone has any idea where that plane could've come from?
Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 51):
Ex-Mexicana, those are the only 319's without AVOD.

That is correct, the "N...MX-registered" aircraft are the ones coming from MX and they don't have AVOD.

A388


User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10276 times:

Sorry, I meant AV. Very nice interior.

User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10249 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 50):
I hope AV phases out those oddballs in the fleet when it start receiving newer ones, because it certainly gives a bad impression when comes to product standarization.

It has been said that of the 7 airplanes to be delivered in 2013, 4 are for replacement and 3 are for expansion, personally I think all seven frames should be replacements because like you said it does give a bad impression, or at least they should keep these older frames for short flights where AVOD is not really needed, none of these "Antiguos y Clasicos" have any business doing the MIA flights where you need to make a good impression and keep all the passengers nice and comfy.

From a technical standpoint these also constitute a maintenance nightmare because not only are they very old birds but they employ different systems from the rest of the AV registered fleet so they create a small subfleet of aircraft which forces AV to have a small stock of parts that only work on a few planes, even within this subfleet all planes are different making these a pain to operate and maintain.

One interesting thing that I came upon, maybe some of you have noticed it too.
If you look up N266CT on the database it comes up as having MSN 2662 (which is correct), if you click on the MSN to get more pictures, it also shows another A319 with the same MSN but it flies for Volaris in Mexico, how could they have assigned the same MSN on two different airframes? Am I missing something here?



Pedaling Squares…
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 55, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10117 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 48):
The crew told me they are all anxious as the new livery and uniforms should be announced any minute now.

What happened to the new livery announced of yesterday?

A388


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 56, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 10099 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 54):
none of these "Antiguos y Clasicos" have any business doing the MIA flights where you need to make a good impression and keep all the passengers nice and comfy.

To be honest, I spoke with the crew and they were also surprised that ac was assigned to the route. On a side note, what surprised me the most, was the amount of pax connecting from Brazil to MIA. Around 30 pax of the full load were coming from Brazil.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 10106 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 55):
What happened to the new livery announced of yesterday?

They announced a new livery yesterday?



Pedaling Squares…
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 58, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10054 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 57):
Quoting A388 (Reply 55):
What happened to the new livery announced of yesterday?

They announced a new livery yesterday?

According to reply 48, they should have, that's why I am asking as well. In any case, I'm looking forward to the new/revised livery.

A388


User currently offlinemartinrpo1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10056 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 57):
Quoting A388 (Reply 55):

What new livery?


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10017 times:

Oh I get it, I think the poster in reply #48 was using a figure of speech, I'm guessing what he meant is that the new uniforms and revised livery should be launched soon.

Just a guess.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 61, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9824 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 60):
Oh I get it, I think the poster in reply #48 was using a figure of speech, I'm guessing what he meant is that the new uniforms and revised livery should be launched soon.

Just a guess.

That is exactly what he said, if there had been the context of an announcement that the new livery was going to be announced that day, then the "any minute now" expression would have had the connotation that A388 mistakenly gave it.

Let's not get confused.

On other news,

VivaColombia continues to tweak it's network in order to focus more on trunk routes out of MDE and BOG, they've just found the point-to-point routes without sufficient demand to fill their 189 seat A320s, as I had predicted many times, but got shot down by users who believed MDE had unlimited amounts of demand. This is their new schedule that will be operating in a couple of months:

BOG-CLO goes from 1x to 2x daily
MDE-CLO goes from 1x to 2x daily
BOG-CTG goes from 3x weekly to 1x daily
MDE-MTR goes from 4x weekly to 1x daily
CLO-SMR goes from 3x to 4x weekly
MDE-ADZ goes from 10x weekly to daily
MDE-CTG goes from 18x weekly to 1x daily (as I said before, there is way too much capacity on this route, it may be sustainable seasonally but definitely not year round)
MDE-BAQ goes from 11x weekly to 1x daily
MDE-SMR goes from 10x weekly to 1x daily
CLO-CTG goes from 4x weekly to 3x weekly
BOG-MDE stays at 4x daily
PEI-CTG stays at 4x weekly
PEI-SMR stays at 3x weekly
MDE-BGA 4x weekly gets axed, the BGA station closes

LAN Colombia transported 18% more passengers in 2012:

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...millones-de-pasajeros-en-2012.html

Despite their massive cuts on the regional network, the capacity redeployment on trunk routes seems to be working for them. Although I agree that the unorthodox practice has been working very well for them volume wise, there's still a couple of challenges they will be facing ahead IMO,

1. If their network will provide adequate feed to their international operation. With a growing international offer from Colombia's metro areas (MDE, CLO, BAQ, CTG, BGA, PEI, CUC, AXM already have flights) and the known fact that regional destinations are a core feeder to AV's international network, I don't know if LAN's offer to these cities will beat AV's BOG flights or the other airline's direct services.

2. Profitability. LA Colombia has been offering very cheap tickets with ticket sales every two weeks at dirt cheap prices. We all know they're very unprofitable and haven't been able to turn around the situation. International routes do being a lot of cash in, but if there isn't an adequate feed for these flights, how big will the international network be able to grow. This isn't taking into account BOG's space constraints.

All in all, those are good growth figures for LAN Colombia. It is more than clear that the LAN business model does not include regional routes or turboprops, let's hope the strategy works for them.


User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9713 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 61):
VivaColombia continues to tweak it's network in order to focus more on trunk routes out of MDE and BOG, they've just found the point-to-point routes without sufficient demand to fill their 189 seat A320s

This is a bit of a biased statement. There are certainly trunk routes that deserve more supply, especially in light of Copa Colombia's retreat from the domestic market. Not all adjustments are in the traditional trunk routes though:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 61):
MDE-MTR goes from 4x weekly to 1x daily
CLO-SMR goes from 3x to 4x weekly

I am especially pleased to see MDE-MTR increasing, and similarly for CLO-SMR, which is going up even after the peak holiday season. That clearly shows that point to point routes are there to stay. That not every single route works is no indictment on the point to point demand. In fact, that routes such as PEI-SMR remain unchanged is evidence to the contrary.
On the MDE to CTG, BAQ and SMR routes, AV has been extremely aggressive by increasing its offer up to 500%.
That Viva adjusts its offer now that the high season has passed seems to me quite normal that mroe "business like" routes such as BOG-CLO and MDE-CLO are boosted. Indeed the schedule for the latter is business friendly.
I was surprised to see that BOG-CTG was only at 3 weekly. It certainly deserves one daily, and no doubt we will see more.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 61):
users who believed MDE had unlimited amounts of demand.

It would be good to see this original quote. I very much doubt that anybody would believe in unlimited demand.
I believe in greater potential outside of BOG, given that supply at at points outside had been strangled for years, just as development generally has curtailed from the centre.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 63, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9540 times:

Quoting summa767 (Reply 62):
This is a bit of a biased statement. There are certainly trunk routes that deserve more supply, especially in light of Copa Colombia's retreat from the domestic market.

I don't think it's biased at all. While routes like MDE-MTR and CLO-SMR are seeing modest increases, the trunk routes have gotten much of the extra capacity as other point-to-point routes were axed, such as MDE-PEI and BGA with further reductions on others. While CLO-SMR gets 1 extra weekly flight, BOG-MDE has gone from one to four daily frequencies and BOG-CLO and MDE-CLO form one to two daily. You said that Viva's business model was going to keep away from trunk routes and specially from BOG's congestion. That's what they were originally planning to do, and I said that the growth opportunities would be limited in those markets. I just didn't know how limited they were, and they've come to realize it.

I know that Viva will thrive in time, but I also know that aside from the limited possibilities that point-to-point routes offer, their business model will do very good on trunk routes.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 62):
On the MDE to CTG, BAQ and SMR routes, AV has been extremely aggressive by increasing its offer up to 500%.

The situation on the MDE-CTG route is specially unsustainable. Tell me which other similar city pair in the developing world has that amount of seat capacity (up to 12 daily flights on A320 family aircraft) without completely trashing yields (return tickets for $70 USD are common to find). I don't think AV is making any money on this route, maybe Viva are.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 62):
It would be good to see this original quote. I very much doubt that anybody would believe in unlimited demand.

Sorry for the figure of speech, but there was a lot of exaggeration regarding Medellín's capacity of sustaining a certain amount of flights. Even in Mexico, Vivaaerobus had to grow out of Monterrey in to the Federal District and Guadalajara because demand just wasn't there for the size they were expecting to achieve. And Medellín is no Monterrey.

[Edited 2013-02-01 09:40:03]

User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 64, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9438 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 63):
I don't think it's biased at all. While routes like MDE-MTR and CLO-SMR are seeing modest increases, the trunk routes have gotten much of the extra capacity as other point-to-point routes were axed, such as MDE-PEI and BGA with further reductions on others.

You are clearly just seeing what you want to see. Did we ever anticipate more than a couple of frequencies a week on thin point to point routes? Did you even envisage that a CLO-SMR, and let alone PEI-SMR route would actually work in a 180 seater A320 year around? And yet, after only months of Viva's operations these routes are up and running. More will come, even not every single one works at its first try. From the very beginning, traditional trunk routes were also part of Viva's strategy, but their main difference is that they are opening up routes that the traditional airlines would never have opened, and are bringing real to competition to others where there was only token service.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 63):
The situation on the MDE-CTG route is specially unsustainable. Tell me which other similar city pair in the developing world has that amount of seat capacity (up to 12 daily flights on A320 family aircraft) without completely trashing yields (return tickets for $70 USD are common to find). I don't think AV is making any money on this route, maybe Viva are.

Nobody is forcing AV to serve this route with 7 or 8 daily flights. If they do is because they obviously want to sink Viva and have the market back all for themselves, after which they would strangle supply again, with perhaps 3 or 4 F50 (or ATR72) flights on the route and the rest being forced to endure going through BOG.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 63):
Sorry for the figure of speech, but there was a lot of exaggeration regarding Medellín's capacity of sustaining a certain amount of flights

It must be very uncomfortable from a centralistic point of view to see that other cities start to unlock their potential.
There were never any unrealistic expectations in Medellin.The city now has multiplied its capacity to CLO, CTG, BAQ, SMR and ADZ with at least 2 competitors on each route, has new jet service to MTR, AV opened jet service to CUC with, obviously only to pre-empt Viva.
BGA and PEI remain served from EOH. In the case of PEI is totally understandable why passenger would shun a flight from MDE, when there were being asked to be at the airport 3 hours before, when the road trip takes 4 hours.
And yet, new routes will come.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 65, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9252 times:

Hi guys,

Yesterday night I cama across this photo:


http://planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=1198045


And I was thinking of the new livery that AV is planning. Is it because of the new livery that this aircraft is painted all-white or do all AV aircraft get the red color after the aircraft is completely painted white?

In any case, it is nice to see AV getting their first A320 with sharklets. I hope to see it in CUR soon 

A388


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9087 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 65):
And I was thinking of the new livery that AV is planning.

Maybe it'll be another Star Alliance plane?



Pedaling Squares…
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 67, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9055 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 66):
Quoting A388 (Reply 65):
And I was thinking of the new livery that AV is planning.

Maybe it'll be another Star Alliance plane?

That could very well be the case but I would have painted the aircraft in the airline livery to get all the attention and not an alliance livery.

A388


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9015 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 67):
I would have painted the aircraft in the airline livery to get all the attention and not an alliance livery.

I would have too, but if they're rolling out the updated livery and new uniforms as is rumoured in something like six months or so, I'm guessing the Star Alliance paint scheme is easier to paint over as is just a white fuselage with a black rudder. This plane should be delivered before May, I think the A320 with sharklets looks awesome, I'm interested to know how this one will fly, I remember there was a big difference when flying a 757 with winglets than one without them back in the days when AV had them.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 69, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8988 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 68):
I remember there was a big difference when flying a 757 with winglets than one without them back in the days when AV had them.

I'm very curious to know about that. What were the main diffrences, beside fuel consumption?



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 70, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8986 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 68):
I would have too, but if they're rolling out the updated livery and new uniforms as is rumoured in something like six months or so, I'm guessing the Star Alliance paint scheme is easier to paint over as is just a white fuselage with a black rudder. This plane should be delivered before May, I think the A320 with sharklets looks awesome,

That may very well be true, yes. I also agree with you that the A320 looks nice with those sharklets.

A388


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8952 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 69):
I'm very curious to know about that. What were the main differences, beside fuel consumption?

The fuel consumption differences on a per flight basis were not easily noticeable but they were there, the plane itself handled very differently though, by having less induced drag it was tough to decelerate so you had to plan your descents much more carefully than on a "regular" 757, if I remember correctly the 57 could shed 10 knots of airspeed per mile traveled while on level flight and idle thrust, on a wingletted 57 this was reduced by about half, having less induced drag also meant that while on ground effect it made for impressive shorter takeoffs and a lot more chances to float during the landing flare, also there was a restriction on using speed brakes, you could only extend them to 1/2 instead of making full use of them, this was due to wing bending relief and a pitch up moment induced by the spoilers themselves.
Maximum cross-wind limitations on takeoff and landing were also reduced. (While I don't remember the numbers it was something like 7 or 8 knots)
And last but not least the winglets gave the 757 a field performance advantage over non-equipped ones where you could easily lift a couple more tons out of a given runway.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineav757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 658 posts, RR: 6
Reply 72, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8907 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Business Traveler in its December2012/January2013 special report section,
2012 World’s Best In Business Travel gives the honors to:

Best Airline in South/Latin America: Avianca
Best Airline Alliance: Star Alliance

http://www.businesstravelerusa.com/a...2-worlda-s-best-in-business-travel


User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8768 times:

Can anyone here confirm if AV bought 50% share of EF?

Regards


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 74, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8751 times:

Quoting troest (Reply 73):
EF?

Avianca buying a stake in Far East Air Transport in Taiwan?

A388


User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8754 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 74):
Avianca buying a stake in Far East Air Transport in Taiwan?

Sorry, meant EasyFly. According to IATA it is EF and ICAO EFY

[Edited 2013-02-07 05:26:01]

User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8765 times:

Quoting troest (Reply 75):
Sorry, meant Easy Fly

Haven't heard anything on it. But it would make sense, considering one of the owners of Easyfly is the now defunt Interbolsa Holding (which went bankrupt last november), although I don't know if the ownership is directly of Interbolsa or under Tribeca, a private equity fund they had relations with. Since Interbolsa is now being closed, all the assets are being sold, so Easyfly going to AV could be possible.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 77, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8580 times:

AA resuming 2nd daily flight MIA-MDE-MDE from 12th June to 26th Aug


Schedule
AA987 MIA 10.20 - 12.50 MDE
AA980 MDE 13.55 - 18.25 MIA

This service starts the day before jetBlue starts its FLL-MDE service. No coincidence, I don't imagine.

Still, good to see increased capacity on MDE to the US, and on this schedule with the new connecting possibilities it provides.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 78, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8428 times:
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Starting on 01APR13, LAN Colombia will increase capacity on the BOG-MIA route by deploying the B-767-316ER on the route daily. This is great news for passengers and cargo customers since LAN will once again operate wide-body a/c between BOG and MIA. Starting on 02JUL13, LAN Perú will increase frequency on the LIM-UIO-MDE route from 4x weekly to a daily service. LAN Perú will also increase frequency on the LIM-UIO-CLO route from 3x weekly to 6x weekly.
Source: amadeus.net


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 79, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8372 times:

Quoting summa767 (Reply 64):
You are clearly just seeing what you want to see. Did we ever anticipate more than a couple of frequencies a week on thin point to point routes? Did you even envisage that a CLO-SMR, and let alone PEI-SMR route would actually work in a 180 seater A320 year around? And yet, after only months of Viva's operations these routes are up and running.

CLO-SMR and PEI-SMR were obvious leisure routes with proven traffic that were almost certain to work with a low-fare airline year-round. I'm talking about going further, like MDE-AXM or BAQ-CUC on A320s. Those are the ones where the likes of Easyfly do a better job, and that's the limit with Viva.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 64):
It must be very uncomfortable from a centralistic point of view to see that other cities start to unlock their potential.

Unnecessarily offensive, not to mention the one who was saying viva would be having token presence on trunk routes and focus on the point-to-point market was you. And yes, there are far larger limits to the secondary cities' potential everywhere in the world. The likes of Calgary, Monterrey or Minneapolis might attract large amounts of traffic, but they'll never be New York, Mexico City or Toronto.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 64):
There were never any unrealistic expectations in Medellin.The city now has multiplied its capacity to CLO, CTG, BAQ, SMR and ADZ with at least 2 competitors on each route, has new jet service to MTR, AV opened jet service to CUC with, obviously only to pre-empt Viva.

At what cost? Yields form MDE are now basically trash. I wonder if any of the airlines and specially AV is making money out of Medellín. The situation will not be sustainable and there will be service reductions at one point. I agree that there was a lack of service form the city, but now it's gone overboard. No airline makes money filling up 150 seaters at $30 dollar fares, unless they're Ryanair. Wait and see.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 77):
AA resuming 2nd daily flight MIA-MDE-MDE from 12th June to 26th Aug

Very nice! I hope that with time this flight consolidates as a year-round, although with the new competition from B6 I don't see it happening soon.

Quoting av757 (Reply 72):
Best Airline in South/Latin America: Avianca
Best Airline Alliance: Star Alliance

Those are very good news and the evidence of the effort that has been made by AV to improve service quality.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 78):
LAN Colombia will increase capacity on the BOG-MIA route by deploying the B-767-316ER on the route daily. This is great news for passengers and cargo customers since LAN will once again operate wide-body a/c between BOG and MIA. Starting on 02JUL13, LAN Perú will increase frequency on the LIM-UIO-MDE route from 4x weekly to a daily service. LAN Perú will also increase frequency on the LIM-UIO-CLO route from 3x weekly to 6x weekly.

Those are also good news. Also regarding LAN, they're adding an extra daily flight to BGA, CLO and VVC from BOG, so CLO will run 7 daily, and BGA and VVC 4 daily too.

Though I see logic in the upgrades of CLO and BGA, the fourth VVC flight might just be to keep the Dashes off the ground since they've been quite idle lately.


Also, rumor has it that three new Avianca routes are going to be announced soon, to start operating in a few months, they are all shining for their absence in the network:

BOG-LET, daily
BOG-SJU 3x weekly
BOG-CUN 4x weekly


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 80, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8388 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 79):
Very nice! I hope that with time this flight consolidates as a year-round, although with the new competition from B6 I don't see it happening soon.

Why? Competition encourages this type of thing. With no competition, no reason to add more capacity in a market that is drasticaly underserved and extremely high fare.

MIAMDE is one of the busiest international city pairs from Miami. It is a larger market than MIAMAD, MIAUIO, MIASCL or MIAGIG.

It can easily support twice daily year-round; and with the competition from FLL, maybe AA will go for it again.



a.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 81, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8355 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 79):
Also regarding LAN, they're adding an extra daily flight to BGA, CLO and VVC from BOG, so CLO will run 7 daily, and BGA and VVC 4 daily too.

LAN will also increase frequency on the BOG-MDE route.


User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2376 posts, RR: 27
Reply 82, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8352 times:

When would LAN Colombia's miles count towards One World FF programs? Once I have that I might travel again to Colombia in LAN instead of AA, but not before.


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 83, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8345 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 80):
Why? Competition encourages this type of thing. With no competition, no reason to add more capacity in a market that is drasticaly underserved and extremely high fare.

Although I agree with you, I was taking into account the beating that AA has taken from JFK to the caribbean by B6. MIA-MDE is a very large market yes, but I don't know if AA, as they've responded historically to B6, will go for it by offering lower fares.

This could turn very interesting. I always thought Medellín could support up to two daily flights by both AA and AV, plus a couple LCC flights, like the ones NK and B6 will offer. Maybe in a couple of years it will be like that.

Also, a destination that is crying for AA to return to is BAQ. It has to be the most underserved Colombia-South Florida market of them all!


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 84, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8339 times:
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Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 82):
When would LAN Colombia's miles count towards One World FF programs? Once I have that I might travel again to Colombia in LAN instead of AA, but not before.

The U.S. DOT recently approved the new bilateral code-share agreement between AA and LAN Colombia. Both AA and LAN Colombia will soon implement their new code-share agreement on all flights between the U.S. and Colombia.


User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8332 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 79):
Also, rumor has it that three new Avianca routes are going to be announced soon, to start operating in a few months, they are all shining for their absence in the network:

BOG-LET, daily
BOG-SJU 3x weekly
BOG-CUN 4x weekly

Also to add that Avianca has requested for new rutes with the new regional airline: REGIONAL EXPRESS AMERICAS S.A.S

The new routes are:

armenia-bogota: 27 weekly
bogota-cali: 3 weekly
bogota-barranca 14 weekly
bogota-el yopal: 14 weekly
bogota-florencia:7 weekly
bogota-ibage:17 weekly
bogota-neiva:33 weekly
bogota-manizales:28 weekly
bogota-perira:11 weekly
bogota-popayan:12 weekly
cali-medellin rionegro:14 weekly
cali-pasto:3 weekly
cali-tumaco:4 weekly

[Edited 2013-02-12 15:29:31]

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 86, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8347 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 83):
Although I agree with you, I was taking into account the beating that AA has taken from JFK to the caribbean by B6. MIA-MDE is a very large market yes, but I don't know if AA, as they've responded historically to B6, will go for it by offering lower fares.

But JFK-Caribbean and MIA-South America are not analogous. AA didn't even try to fight for JFK-Caribbean much in the first place. It will fight tooth and nail for Miami-South America.



a.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8205 times:

Quoting troest (Reply 85):
Also to add that Avianca has requested for new rutes with the new regional airline: REGIONAL EXPRESS AMERICAS S.A.S

I hope that crap of a plan never takes off.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 88, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8177 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Thread starter):
MIA AA 3x (763, 757, 738) AV 3x (A332, A319 2x), LA 1x (A320)

AA: BOG-MIA 3x daily (B763 daily, B752 2x daily)
LAN: BOG-MIA daily (B763)

Once AA/LA implement the bilateral code-share agreement on flights between the U.S. and Colombia and domestic flights with-in Colombia; LAN Colombia and AA pax will benefit from increased connectivity via both BOG and MIA. For example, LAN Colombia's domestic pax will be able to connect onto 4 daily flights to MIA via BOG; as well as over 40 destinations via MIA. AA's pax will also be able to connect onto domestic flights with-in Colombia via BOG. On a side note, LAN Colombia's third B-767-316ER is currently undergoing certification by the Aerocivil. The airline plans to deploy the additional B-767-316ERs on routes to GRU, JFK and LAX from BOG.


User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8155 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 87):
I hope that crap of a plan never takes off.

The new airline is already approved. The "new" routes requested for are already served with AVs F50's and later be served with the new ATR's. This, I guess, is the initiation of a new low price airline owned by Avianca.

[Edited 2013-02-13 01:43:18]

User currently offlinemartinrpo1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

I agree MIA-BAQ on AA is missing. They tried it a couple of years ago but decided to drop it when fuel prices spiked. Maybe when the A319 arrives they will resume it. I also believe MIA-MDE could support 2-daily or 10 weekly A319 service. AA could also start BOG-JFK to compete with AV and DL. A319 would be perfect for the route, and for connections to Europe and Asia.

User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days ago) and read 8064 times:

Quoting troest (Reply 89):
This, I guess, is the initiation of a new low price airline owned by Avianca.

In th latest round of negociations between AV and its pilots for the new collective bargaining agreement, the company agreed to keep all turboprop flying in-house, now it remains to be seen if this really happens or not, in this era of corporate greed the people upstairs will do anything to keep "costs" down.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 92, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days ago) and read 8080 times:
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Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 90):
eply 90, posted s_lt(1360760156, 'l F j Y H:i:s');Wed Feb 13 2013 07:55:56 your local timeWed Feb 13 2013 04:55:56 UTC (1 hour 50 minutes 4 secs ago) and read 53 times:

I agree MIA-BAQ on AA is missing. They tried it a couple of years ago but decided to drop it when fuel prices spiked. Maybe when the A319 arrives they will resume it. I also believe MIA-MDE could support 2-daily or 10 weekly A319 service. AA could also start BOG-JFK to compete with AV and DL. A319 would be perfect for the route, and for connections to Europe and Asia.

I find it hard to believe BAQ is suck a dog for AA, its the closest main land Latin American city south of Panama to Miami. Its hundreds of miles closer to MIA then Cali, Medellin or Bogota to Miami. A 737-800 can do it. Only AV flies it daily at fares that are expensive, AV provides no alliance connections in Miami since Star has no large MIA presence. The reason AA flunked the second time is that its was a morning departure from Miami( no time for connections) and afternoon back from BAQ. It should be 1700-1800 from Miami to BAQ( to carry connections), overnight and 0900 departure from BAQ9 to allow time in MIA for all the connections the airport offers.


User currently offlinemartinrpo1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8066 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 92):
It should be 1700-1800 from Miami to BAQ( to carry connections), overnight and 0900 departure from BAQ9 to allow time in MIA for all the connections the airport offers.

Agree 100%. A late departure from MIA (18:30) and an early one from BAQ (08:30).


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 94, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8047 times:

I read this morning that Avianca was named the best airline of Latin America by Business Traveler. Congratulations!!!

Also, the first Latin American airline to receive the A320 with sharklets is.... Avianca!!! Congratulations again. The aircraft is on delivery to AV as we speak.

A388


User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8047 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 94):
Also, the first Latin American airline to receive the A320 with sharklets is.... Avianca!!!

It will also be the first aircraft to wear the new Avianca livery for AviancaTaca.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 96, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8027 times:

Quoting troest (Reply 95):
Quoting A388 (Reply 94):
Also, the first Latin American airline to receive the A320 with sharklets is.... Avianca!!!

It will also be the first aircraft to wear the new Avianca livery for AviancaTaca.

That would be great but another theory on this thread was that the aircraft would receive the Star Alliance livery because that's easier to paint over when the new livery comes out which was supposed to be in June or July of this year. Coming to think of it, it doesn'r make much sense to paint this aircraft in Star Alliance colors and paint it over again in the new livery just a few months later. Seeing that this aircraft also has a visible difference compared to their other aircraft (this one has the sharklets) it makes even more sense to paint this aircraft in the new livery now as it will be a great marketing tool as well!!!

In any case whether it be now or in June/July, I'm looking forward to the new Avianca livery and seeing this aircraft in Curacao one day!!! Are there no renderings of the new livery? Where will this aircraft be painted?

A388


User currently offlineMATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 91):
In th latest round of negociations between AV and its pilots for the new collective bargaining agreement, the company agreed to keep all turboprop flying in-house, now it remains to be seen if this really happens or not, in this era of corporate greed the people upstairs will do anything to keep "costs" down.


That’s true but Mr. Villegas also told that the only condition to accept the pilots proposal was that ACDAC(Asociacion Colombiana de Aviadores Civiles) and ODEAA(Organizacion de Aviadores de Avianca) must agree and accept the terms of the proposal which was presented by ODEAA, and said that in the mean time the new airline is still happening. I was told that ODEAA tried to present the 3 proposals in conjunction with ACDAC but they refused to sign it. And as we speak the ACDAC representatives are having a reunion with Mr. Villegas explaining their own proposal to keep the turbo prop ops in AV. So if everyone is trying to go their way, the only one that wins is Mr Efromovich. Its sad because we both know how hard is to deal with pilots, and specially now trying to put both "unions" in the same page... we'll se but I don’t like a bit where this is going.

Quoting troest (Reply 95):
It will also be the first aircraft to wear the new Avianca livery for AviancaTaca.

i dont think theyr unvailing the new livery with this new plane. ill bet is another Star livery.

Quoting A388 (Reply 96):
That would be great but another theory on this thread was that the aircraft would receive the Star Alliance livery because that's easier to paint over when the new livery comes out which was supposed to be in June or July of this year. Coming to think of it, it doesn'r make much sense to paint this aircraft in Star Alliance colors and paint it over again in the new livery just a few months later. Seeing that this aircraft also has a visible difference compared to their other aircraft (this one has the sharklets) it makes even more sense to paint this aircraft in the new livery now as it will be a great marketing tool as well!!!

No need to paint over as per star alliance you have to reach a quota of star livery aircrafts I think. If they are unveiling the new image in June it makes allot of sense to paint it in Star livery, though I agree it would be a nice marketing tool, which will eventually happen as all the remaining 320 will have the lets.

Quoting A388 (Reply 96):
In any case whether it be now or in June/July, I'm looking forward to the new Avianca livery and seeing this aircraft in Curacao one day!!! Are there no renderings of the new livery? Where will this aircraft be painted?

I’m not so thrilled about the new image. I really like the current one. Also they are obviously changing all the uniforms and in my opinion AV pilots uniforms are classic, simple and very elegant not to mentions the F/A’s. Now some designer will create the new uniforms and I bet they will not be nearly as good as the current ones. I’m really hoping am wrong on this one. Also I really like the current livery on AV planes and am afraid it will change to a Eurowhithe type of livery. In a few months we’ll see how things turns out.

regards.

MATURRO727


User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 97):
i dont think theyr unvailing the new livery with this new plane. ill bet is another Star livery.

Then why send an all white aircraft to its hub and finish painting it there? Previous airbus planes to AV came out already painted in AV livery or Star Alliance livery from Toulouse to BOG.


User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 99, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8000 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 92):
I find it hard to believe BAQ is suck a dog for AA, its the closest main land Latin American city south of Panama to Miami.

I agree that AA could easily make BAQ work with better scheduling. And by the way BAQ is north of Panama and a little bit closer to MIA than PTY.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 97):
I’m not so thrilled about the new image. I really like the current one. Also they are obviously changing all the uniforms and in my opinion AV pilots uniforms are classic, simple and very elegant not to mentions the F/A’s

AV pilot uniforms are nice, F/A are absolutely horrible, so are those of ground staff.

I do hope AV keeps being very red and not decides to go burgundy.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 100, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7986 times:

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 97):
I’m not so thrilled about the new image.

Do you know what the new livery will look like? Please share it with us here  
Quoting troest (Reply 98):
Then why send an all white aircraft to its hub and finish painting it there? Previous airbus planes to AV came out already painted in AV livery or Star Alliance livery from Toulouse to BOG.

Good point, why send the aircraft all-white to the customer, in this case Avianca? All other aircraft (except maybe for the first aircraft) were painted in TLS. Why is this aircraft different from that?

A388


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 101, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7967 times:
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Quoting bogota (Reply 99):
I agree that AA could easily make BAQ work with better scheduling. And by the way BAQ is north of Panama and a little bit closer to MIA than PTY.

Barranquilla is probably the most underseved city of its size in all Latin America. BOG is 400 miles south and in the wrong direction for trips to North America and Europe, but many people do it because they have only one other viable option. Copa in Panama has many flights to Colombian cities with 3 1-190 daily to BAQ. When I wa a kid, I took many Avianca flights to JFK from BAQ, today AV has NO flight to New York from BAQ. All my life I hear of all these trips to Europe and Japan, they were very impressed by Pan Am's Narita operation, Barranquians have taken many trips aboad but I am at a misconnect on what plane got them out of BAQ with so little flights. AA where are You ? Delta cold you help too ? Surely BAQ to Atlanta has to be viable 3 times a week ?


User currently offlinemartinrpo1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7961 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 101):
Surely BAQ to Atlanta has to be viable 3 times a week

Dream on buddy. There is a much better chance to see DL serving MDE, CLO, or even CTG first than BAQ.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 103, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7931 times:
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Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 102):
Dream on buddy. There is a much better chance to see DL serving MDE, CLO, or even CTG first than BAQ.

Your right but in 10 or 20 years we may have an huge airport half way between BAQ and CTG. Cartagena's airport is old and built for dc-3's, it has no taxi way and is surrounded by slums. Its been bursting at the seams for decades. If Colombia had a huge regional coastal airport between the two cities more airline service would be viable.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 104, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7884 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 86):
But JFK-Caribbean and MIA-South America are not analogous. AA didn't even try to fight for JFK-Caribbean much in the first place.

True.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 86):
It will fight tooth and nail for Miami-South America.

Yes, this is probably the region where AA has it's largest margins and is a lot less VFR/leisure oriented than JFK-Caribbean.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 90):
They tried it a couple of years ago but decided to drop it when fuel prices spiked. Maybe when the A319 arrives they will resume it.

I think this would be a perfect A319 route.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 90):
I also believe MIA-MDE could support 2-daily or 10 weekly A319 service.

I think MDE can easily support twice daily 738 service to MIA, as it did for years before.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 90):
AA could also start BOG-JFK to compete with AV and DL. A319 would be perfect for the route, and for connections to Europe and Asia.

I don't know if they'd do that given they're launching DFW-BOG this year, maybe later?

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 101):
Barranquilla is probably the most underseved city of its size in all Latin America.

Though BAQ is underserved, mainly due to the horrible management and corruption that were rampant during the airport's concession to private investors , there are other similar cases, such as MAR and COR, who have similar levels of service (COR has more international service, but much less domestic) and are roughly the same size. We all know why MAR and in general everything outside of Caracas is underserved in Venezuela, and the extreme centralism in Argentina. I do think that under new management BAQ will get a lot more service than it has had in the coming years.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 101):
When I wa a kid, I took many Avianca flights to JFK from BAQ, today AV has NO flight to New York from BAQ.

Ok, flights stopped in BAQ on their way to JFK because of range issues back then. Although there is some demand for BAQ-JFK flights, it is small and very seasonal. I agree that maybe a flight on AV 3x or 4x weekly during the high season would be viable, but nothing more, unless they pair it with PEI, but that wouldn't be daily year-round for sure either. Even so, with the new B6 flight from CTG to JFK the chances of seeing a BAQ-JFK route seem more dim.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 101):
Surely BAQ to Atlanta has to be viable 3 times a week ?

Not a chance! Demand outside of south florida is very limited from Barranquilla and mostly centered in NYC. I do think that a daily AA flight to south florida plus an LCC that flies 4x-5x weekly to FLL are missing, but other than that, maybe the return of service to MAR and the ABC islands and way down the line a flight to LIM.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 103):
Your right but in 10 or 20 years we may have an huge airport half way between BAQ and CTG. Cartagena's airport is old and built for dc-3's, it has no taxi way and is surrounded by slums. Its been bursting at the seams for decades.

We won't. The concession contract in CTG doesn't end until around 2026 and BAQ is going to be given to private hands again next year for a 25 year duration. CTG is undergoing renovations that will expand its current 1.2 million pax per year capacity to three million and there is space to extend the ramp. BAQ will also be given a big facelift during the new contract, so the joint facility won't be here for at least 25 or 30 years.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 105, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7915 times:
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Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 90):
AA could also start BOG-JFK to compete with AV and DL. A319 would be perfect for the route, and for connections to Europe and Asia.

LAN Colombia intends to launch the BOG-JFK route utilizing the B-767-316ER and will code-share with AA on the route, (Aires used to operate BOG-JFK). Thus, LATAM will offer non-stop flights from JFK to BOG, GIG, GRU, GYE, LIM, and SCL.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 106, posted (1 year 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 7803 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 104):
We won't. The concession contract in CTG doesn't end until around 2026 and BAQ is going to be given to private hands again next year for a 25 year duration. CTG is undergoing renovations that will expand its current 1.2 million pax per year capacity to three million and there is space to extend the ramp. BAQ will also be given a big facelift during the new contract, so the joint facility won't be here for at least 25 or 30 years

While its likely a new airport is 10 or more years away, the contracts these concessionaires have must contain some language of a new airport and rights of first refusal to operate the new airport.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 107, posted (1 year 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 7798 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 105):
Thus, LATAM will offer non-stop flights from JFK to BOG, GIG, GRU, GYE, LIM, and SCL.

What does this have to do with this thread?

A388


User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 108, posted (1 year 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 7801 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 107):
What does this have to do with this thread?

Maybe if you can not find a direct flight between BOG and JFK you can go via SCL....


User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2376 posts, RR: 27
Reply 109, posted (1 year 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 7761 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 99):
I do hope AV keeps being very red and not decides to go burgundy.

Agree 100%. I hope they will be intelligent enough that if they decided to keep the AV name, they should also keep the red.



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 110, posted (1 year 2 months 18 hours ago) and read 7741 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 107):
What does this have to do with this thread?

Hey go easy, it's just a comment on the number of destinations that LATAM will have from JFK, and one of them happens to be BOG. At least this time he didn't hijack the thread to only talk about LATAM's developments.

The new MZL airport continues it's disgraceful series of events marked by rampant corruption and poor planning, at this stage it is unlikely that the project will get further funding and it looks like the city of Manizales and the department of Caldas will be dependent of La Nubia for years to come:

http://www.elespectador.com/noticias...66-licitaciones-amarradas-aerocafe

President Santos basically called it quits on the pathetically executed project (bottom of the news article):

http://www.lapatria.com/economia/ayu...on-el-animo-de-los-cafeteros-25646


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 111, posted (1 year 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 7742 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 110):
At least this time he didn't hijack the thread to only talk about LATAM's developments.

He does by the post I qouted from him. He is only talking about LATAM's developments and it has absolutely no relevance to the thread.

A388


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 112, posted (1 year 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 7696 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 111):
He does by the post I qouted from him. He is only talking about LATAM's developments and it has absolutely no relevance to the thread.

This is the whole post:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 105):
LAN Colombia intends to launch the BOG-JFK route utilizing the B-767-316ER and will code-share with AA on the route, (Aires used to operate BOG-JFK). Thus, LATAM will offer non-stop flights from JFK to BOG, GIG, GRU, GYE, LIM, and SCL.

Not only does it relate to the development of the thread where people have been asking about the developments of possible Colombia-JFK routes, it also talks about the developments of LAN Colombia amongst other LAN subsidiaries. So give it a break.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 106):
the contracts these concessionaires have must contain some language of a new airport and rights of first refusal to operate the new airport.

Although the new contract of BAQ might have some wording about it, for sure the contract with ACSA in CTG doesn't. It was signed years before there was any talk of the mega airport, and I'm sure they'll fight tooth and nail for it to be development after their tenure expires.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 113, posted (1 year 2 months ago) and read 7575 times:

Sure given the BOG-MIA traffic CM (P5) may be able to fill a B737 non-stop BOG-MIA, but now when CM and AV/TA are in the same alliance, the likelihood of CM flying non-stop BOG-MIA is very slim.
Not sure how CM (P5) performs on BOG-MEX but for PTY hub needs, BOG-MEX can't be compared to BOG-CCS or MDE-CCS, which are CM way to have extra capacity between PTY and CCS.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7520 times:

Having jsut flown in/out of CTG I must comment that the security proceedures are onerous at best. It is like they don't trust their own security personnel.

I had 10 (yes, 10!) separate security checks.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7516 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 115):
Having jsut flown in/out of CTG I must comment that the security proceedures are onerous at best. It is like they don't trust their own security personnel.

I had 10 (yes, 10!) separate security checks.

Well as a frequent user of the airport (fly in and out of there every two months), there must have been some kind of special visitor to the city that day or some special occasion, because the security procedures in CTG are the same as everywhere else, every time i've used it.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 114):
Sure given the BOG-MIA traffic CM (P5) may be able to fill a B737 non-stop BOG-MIA, but now when CM and AV/TA are in the same alliance, the likelihood of CM flying non-stop BOG-MIA is very slim.
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 114):
Not sure how CM (P5) performs on BOG-MEX but for PTY hub needs, BOG-MEX can't be compared to BOG-CCS or MDE-CCS, which are CM way to have extra capacity between PTY and CCS.

I guess BOG-MEX also helps with transfer traffic from Ecuador and Venezuela so that PTY-MEX and PTY-CCS/UIO/GYE flights have more room.

I also agree that CM could easily fill a 737 on BOG-MIA, but there is a big amount of competition and i'm sure they're happy just serving it from PTY and as you say using AV as a Star partner.


User currently offlineColombia From Colombia, joined Nov 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7385 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 79):
I wonder if any of the airlines and specially AV is making money out of Medellín

I beg to differ, and don't take this the wrong way, but there is no way that in the current shape of this industry as a whole, any airline would maintain and even increase capacity to any given city just to be there.
Yes, it is true that some flights are there just because the competition is also there, but AV has some 29 daily freqs to MDE and I can assure You that at least 20 of them are full flights.
Again I do not mean to offend You in any way, but do You work in this industry, I'm just curious because You sound very sure of what You are saying always.

Take care



You Can't Fail If You Never Try
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7366 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 115):
Well as a frequent user of the airport (fly in and out of there every two months), there must have been some kind of special visitor to the city that day or some special occasion, because the security procedures in CTG are the same as everywhere else, every time i've used it.

Do you mostly fly domestic or international out of CTG every two months? I have been through the security checks Yellowtail is talking about, Having flown out of CTG as a crew member I did not have to go through all of them but I have seen them on a regular basis, the funniest thing is some of the security checkpoints aren't even twenty feet apart from each other.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7139 times:

Quoting troest (Reply 98):
Then why send an all white aircraft to its hub and finish painting it there? Previous airbus planes to AV came out already painted in AV livery or Star Alliance livery from Toulouse to BOG.

First picture of the new AV airbus with sharklets show it was painted in Star Alliance livery. Wonder why it was not painted in TLS like all the other AV planes. Maybe cheaper, maybe AV/TA has yet not come to agreement on the new livery or simply they're just waiting for june to come.


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7064 times:

Quoting troest (Reply 118):
First picture of the new AV airbus with sharklets show it was painted in Star Alliance livery.

Got a link? The plane arrived a couple of days ago but I have yet to see it, I threw the idea around that it would be painted in *A colors but was quickly shot down by two other members, oh well.……

Asking around people told me that the introduction of the new corporate image is in march. Can't wait      



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7044 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 119):
Got a link? The plane arrived a couple of days ago but I have yet to see it, I threw the idea around that it would be painted in *A colors but was quickly shot down by two other members, oh well.%u2026%u2026

Photo of the plane:



User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 121, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6975 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 117):
Do you mostly fly domestic or international out of CTG every two months?

I fly domestic of course. I assumed (wrongly) that he was flying domestic too.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 117):
I have been through the security checks Yellowtail is talking about, Having flown out of CTG as a crew member I did not have to go through all of them but I have seen them on a regular basis, the funniest thing is some of the security checkpoints aren't even twenty feet apart from each other.

Well that I haven't seen that. Flew from CTG to MIA once in the nineties but I barely remember.

Quoting Colombia (Reply 116):
I beg to differ, and don't take this the wrong way, but there is no way that in the current shape of this industry as a whole, any airline would maintain and even increase capacity to any given city just to be there.

Really? Then why is LAN suffering terrible losses in their colombian operation and yet they keep adding frequencies? It's called future investment. Avianca is beefing up their MDE service to prevent a widespread growth of ultra LCCs in the country as they see a menace in Viva.

Quoting Colombia (Reply 116):
Again I do not mean to offend You in any way, but do You work in this industry, I'm just curious because You sound very sure of what You are saying always.

No, I don't. But I do have some knowledge of how it works and various friends in the industry. Which really doesn't matter, given that this is a fan forum where it is not required to work for the industry to give your opinion, as long as it is informed.

Quoting Colombia (Reply 116):
Yes, it is true that some flights are there just because the competition is also there, but AV has some 29 daily freqs to MDE and I can assure You that at least 20 of them are full flights.

For example, here you're stating that at least 20 out of 29 flights a day from AV are full to MDE. I assume you don't work for the industry and also that you don't have much knowledge because,

AV doesn't have 29 daily frequencies out of MDE. The have 27 to BOG, 10 to CLO, 8 to CTG, 3 to BAQ, 1 to SMR, 1 to CUC, 1 to MIA and 3 weekly to daily to JFK, and that isn't counting 2K and TA. So AV has more like 50 flights a day from MDE.

Second of all, as it is known widely in this forum and in the whole industry, a full flight does not equal a profitable flight. With AV's cost base, even if an A320 is filled up to the gills in Y (because I highly doubt it ever fills up front from MDE, given it never does from BOG on domestic sectors) with trash yields, the flight might not be making them money.

Again, no offense, but I remind you that this is a fan forum, so trying to bring down someone's argument with the "do you work in this industry" question is just not the way to go.

BTW,

The crazy and erratic LAN scheduling strikes again;

Just weeks after announcing the extra MDE-UIO-LIM and CLO-UIO-LIM frequencies they have been pulled down from the reservation systems. Seriously LAN?


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 122, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6932 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 119):
Got a link? The plane arrived a couple of days ago but I have yet to see it, I threw the idea around that it would be painted in *A colors but was quickly shot down by two other members, oh well.……

Well you are right that it would have Star Alliance colors but it doesn't take away that it is strange that this aircraft is painted elsewhere and not in TLS so that tells me there is more to this than just having the aircraft painted in Star Alliance colors. Now we hear the new livery will be unveiled in March instead of June? What's going on?

A388


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 123, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6913 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 121):
a full flight does not equal a profitable flight. With AV's cost base, even if an A320 is filled up to the gills in Y (because I highly doubt it ever fills up front from MDE, given it never does from BOG on domestic sectors) with trash yields, the flight might not be making them money.

It is safe, however, to keep in mind that most of our talk here is pure speculation as we have access to very little info.

A few years ago I heard from a very trustworthy source within Avianca that the airline's break-even load factor in most of their domestic routes was around 70-75%. Avianca has always managed to keep most of their routes above this cut point. Keep in mind that this was back in the post-Summa era when Avianca still had a relatively heterogeneous fleet, with higher costs associated with their sizeable MD-80 operation, and turn around times on domestic sectors was 45 minutes.

With a all A320-family fleet, with 25-30 minutes turn around times in most spoke stations, and with fares that are still relatively high compared to the length of the flight (let's be honest, rock bottom fares only come online on certain routes, very specific times and limited periods mostly in the off-season), I don't doubt they are breaking even at much, much lower load factors.

Other thing to keep in mind is that a domestic operation *might* be unprofitable per se, but it is essential for the profitability of an international hub-based operation. This applies to Avianca's case with all the feed domestic routes provide. So if, for instance, the BOG-BCN route is profitable, how much of the revenue comes from passengers feeded from "unprofitable" domestic routes?


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 124, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

By the way, does anyone know when N477AV will start commercial flying and which routes it will serve first?

A388


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 121):
For example, here you're stating that at least 20 out of 29 flights a day from AV are full to MDE
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 121):
AV doesn't have 29 daily frequencies out of MDE.

I'm sure he meant flights to and from BOG, 27 or 29 flights it really doesn't matter, what matters is that Colombia isn't talking ballpark figures he's actually got his facts quite right, its 20 full out of 27 or 22 out of 29. Whichever suits you best.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 121):
Avianca is beefing up their MDE service to prevent a widespread growth of ultra LCCs in the country as they see a menace in Viva.

I Disagree, while the Viva threat is there I think AV is keeping up with demand, take this for example, last week my working day took me from BOG to MDE to fly both of the afternoon services from MDE to CTG, I switched airplanes at MDE upon arrival from BOG from an A318 to an A320, I thought it was kinda strange but at the end of the day it was all clear to me, we were just a little shy of 150 pax on all four sectors, and this wasn't a Friday before a long weekend it was some "idle" Tuesday in February, so all in all I don't think AV is beefing up at MDE just to keep market presence and shy away its competitors, there is a market for all those flights, I think if the flight isn't profitable the plug is pulled, end of story and the plane could be used on a more profitable route, think about it, the YYZ flight hasn't been launched because there aren't enough crew members to fly the plane, it hasn't been launched because there is no plane available period.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 121):
Second of all, as it is known widely in this forum and in the whole industry, a full flight does not equal a profitable flight.

The break even factor for short sectors (MDE, CLO, BGA, NVA, EJA) on the A320 ranges from 68 to 74 passengers depending on the route flown and the cost of fuel on a given day, so believe me all those flights are yielding a shitload of money, in a recent pilot meeting that was held at company HQ, it was announced that it was the domestic operation that was flying high while the international wasn't doing so great, I actually remember the VP of Flight Operations say that every sector flown to and from Europe was yielding a loss of $7M pesos (close to $4000 USD), now whether that is true remains to be seen.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 121):
(because I highly doubt it ever fills up front from MDE, given it never does from BOG on domestic sectors)

Where did you get that information? Give a serious check to your sources because the cabin up front gets full very often, agreed some of them might be upgrades but full is full nonetheless.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 121):
no offense, but I remind you that this is a fan forum, so trying to bring down someone's argument with the "do you work in this industry" question is just not the way to go.

Agreed   

Quoting A388 (Reply 122):
Well you are right that it would have Star Alliance colors but it doesn't take away that it is strange that this aircraft is painted elsewhere and not in TLS so that tells me there is more to this than just having the aircraft painted in Star Alliance colors.

Like Troest said, it could be cheaper to paint at BOG.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 126, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6807 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 119):
Asking around people told me that the introduction of the new corporate image is in march.

That is what I was told, also that it will be red, not huge difference from the actual livery. Shall wait and see.


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6799 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 126):
it will be red, not huge difference from the actual livery. Shall wait and see.

This is exactly what I'm hoping for, a few subtle changes, why ruin an otherwise wonderful livery and corporate image? do we have to follow the steps of AA or IB and come down in flames with a failure of epic proportions?

You said it best, we shall wait and see.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 128, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6756 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 125):
t was announced that it was the domestic operation that was flying high while the international wasn't doing so great, I actually remember the VP of Flight Operations say that every sector flown to and from Europe was yielding a loss of $7M pesos (close to $4000 USD), now whether that is true remains to be seen.

Wow, when was this? AV increased frequencies to MAD a few months ago, and I understand that it will add more flights to Spain from May with the arrival of the next A330 (N280AV due next month).

Iberia has only just reduced frequencies on its MAD-BOG route to just one daily frequency, when at some point it had 12 weekly frequencies and so can totally believe that this route is not that strong, but would have thought with lower costs, AV managed to get a profit out of it, and similarly for CLO-MAD and MDE-MAD that also enjoy healthy load factors and a higher O&D component that should be more profitable.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 129, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6726 times:
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Effective 01APR13, LAN Colombia will change its schedule on the BOG-MIA route with the introduction of the B763 on the route:
LA3502 BOG 09:10 MIA 14:00 Daily B763
LA3503 MIA 16:05 BOG 18:45 Daily B763
Source: amadeus.net


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 130, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6659 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 126):
that every sector flown to and from Europe was yielding a loss of $7M pesos (close to $4000 USD), now whether that is true remains to be seen.

That could be the case for he off-season. I bought a ticket to MAD for over COP $1.200.00 (A bit over U$650). It was cheaper for than MIA. OTOH, I just bought a RT to FLL from BOG for COP $800.000 (US480), and that's all the way until november!

Quoting A388 (Reply 122):
With AV's cost base, even if an A320 is filled up to the gills in Y (because I highly doubt it ever fills up front from MDE, given it never does from BOG on domestic sectors) with trash yields, the flight might not be making them money.

I'm not in the industry, but I've heard from AV management, that domestic routes are an excellent deal for the company. In fact, a testimony of that is the extensive network AV has biult domestically, and has kept competitors pretty much struggling in the market, just as you've repeatedly said in the LA case. And that, has come along with some decent profits.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 131, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6639 times:

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 123):
With a all A320-family fleet, with 25-30 minutes turn around times in most spoke stations, and with fares that are still relatively high compared to the length of the flight (let's be honest, rock bottom fares only come online on certain routes, very specific times and limited periods mostly in the off-season), I don't doubt they are breaking even at much, much lower load factors.

That is true, the break even point has got to be lower now with the streamlined fleet. But airport fees and fuel have also gone up too. Who knows, they could be making a bit of money.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 123):
Other thing to keep in mind is that a domestic operation *might* be unprofitable per se, but it is essential for the profitability of an international hub-based operation. This applies to Avianca's case with all the feed domestic routes provide. So if, for instance, the BOG-BCN route is profitable, how much of the revenue comes from passengers feeded from "unprofitable" domestic routes?

That is also very true. I have said it a hundred times: the international operation out of BOG would never be sustainable with the amount of domestic feed the hub gets every day. The domestic network is there to keep the international routes printing money.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 125):
I Disagree, while the Viva threat is there I think AV is keeping up with demand, take this for example, last week my working day took me from BOG to MDE to fly both of the afternoon services from MDE to CTG, I switched airplanes at MDE upon arrival from BOG from an A318 to an A320, I thought it was kinda strange but at the end of the day it was all clear to me, we were just a little shy of 150 pax on all four sectors, and this wasn't a Friday before a long weekend it was some "idle" Tuesday in February,

That is all circumstantial, anecdotal evidence.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 125):
I'm sure he meant flights to and from BOG, 27 or 29 flights it really doesn't matter, what matters is that Colombia isn't talking ballpark figures he's actually got his facts quite right, its 20 full out of 27 or 22 out of 29. Whichever suits you best.

Well then let him say 29 flights form BOG to MDE. The important point here is that neither I nor him nor any user in this forum is working from the inside of the colombian aviation industry (some are crew members, but that's hardly being inside the core of the company), and thus we all have some informed opinions which lead to interesting speculations, but nothing official. I'm sure that out of the 27 flights a day to BOG there are many that go out full, but then again you're not going to prove that with your circumstantial evidence as a pilot.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 125):
so all in all I don't think AV is beefing up at MDE just to keep market presence and shy away its competitors, there is a market for all those flights, I think if the flight isn't profitable the plug is pulled, end of story and the plane could be used on a more profitable route

Really? Then why after,

Quoting trent772 (Reply 125):
I actually remember the VP of Flight Operations say that every sector flown to and from Europe was yielding a loss of $7M pesos (close to $4000 USD), now whether that is true remains to be seen.

Are they beefing up service to europe every time a new A330 gets delivered? Easy: IB is shrinking and LA is about to enter the market. The more capacity AV has the more they'll be able to control the fares and compete with the other players. It might be losing money right now, but in the end it will bring them rewards. It's business.

(All this said, IMO none of the flights to Spain loose money, except maybe for BCN during the low season).

Quoting trent772 (Reply 125):
so believe me all those flights are yielding a shitload of money,

I would love to see those figures broken down on their annual reports. Sadly, they aren't.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 125):
The break even factor for short sectors (MDE, CLO, BGA, NVA, EJA) on the A320 ranges from 68 to 74 passengers depending on the route flown and the cost of fuel on a given day

That is VERY specific information which would be cool to know where it came from. An A320 with a normal density configuration, flying a short cycle in a country with typically high landing fees, airport congestion, generally low-ish fares and expensive fuel which delivers a 45% break-even low factor?

Quoting trent772 (Reply 125):
in a recent pilot meeting that was held at company HQ, it was announced that it was the domestic operation that was flying high while the international wasn't doing so great,

That is public information. But it's the whole AviancaTaca group that is seeing this, just not the way you might think they are. While domestic passengers have been on the double digit rise for the past two years, fares are also substantially down. On the other hand, while international isn't recording such growth and there has been a little slip on the load factors, there's rarely any fare sale that's worth it except maybe to MIA or MAD very sporadically, you can see that on how their RPM's have been behaving according to yearly reports.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 125):
agreed some of them might be upgrades but full is full nonetheless.

Some of them? No one (unless on a special trip like a honeymoon or an emergency) and almost no company is going to pay for business class on 30-50 minute flights. Many of those passengers are Lifemiles elites getting upgraded.

Now to conclude,

It is proven that MDE has demand for this new capacity, but yields have been poor to say the least. It is yet to be seen if it is sustainable, and AV's behavior is the typical legacy vs. lcc battle mode: beef up capacity, trash yields and bring them down. Time will tell, and I'm going to predict that capacity will stabilize in due time (not to previous levels, which were ridiculous of course), and that once we stop seeing the 100.000 COP return tickets so often, the airlines will start making some money again. I don't doubt that Avianca makes money on it's domestic routes, it is just specifically that the rise in capacity form Medellín to the coast has been too abrupt and it might not be profitable in the near term.

I want to make clear that I am not going against Medellín. If Avianca went from the current 10 daily to 35 daily flights on the BGA market from BOG at $120.000 COP return fares just because Viva entered the market (which is roughly the increase in capacity there was on MDE-CTG), I would also question the profitability of the service.


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 132, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6608 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 131):
expensive fuel

Ypou know how much AV paid in average for its fuel? Got to remember htey hedge their fuel, son they could possibly be paying less what you think.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 131):
No one (unless on a special trip like a honeymoon or an emergency)

Nop. I've seen quite a few of intl travellers which I'm pretty sure get paid J fares by their companies when travelling to Colombia, and some domestic flights are included. I've been upgraded every now and then, but it doesn't mean everyone travelling for business get a J seat for free.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 133, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6554 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 131):
That is all circumstantial, anecdotal evidence.

Yeah! What the hell do I know?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 131):
some are crew members, but that's hardly being inside the core of the company

You clearly have something against crew members, don't you?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 131):
but then again you're not going to prove that with your circumstantial evidence as a pilot.

Again, what do I know? I kinda like to know what your beef is against crew members because this is not the first time you have aggressive comments towards them, on the other hand I don't want to waste my time.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 131):
It might be losing money right now, but in the end it will bring them rewards. It's business.

Thanks for the invaluable lesson in business and economics, I feel smarter already   

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 131):
That is VERY specific information which would be cool to know where it came from.

Why bother to know where it came from? Remember (according to you) I'm just some worthless crewmember with only some anecdotal and circumstantial evidence who has absolutely no ties to the "core" of the company.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 131):
Some of them? No one (unless on a special trip like a honeymoon or an emergency) and almost no company is going to pay for business class on 30-50 minute flights.
OK, have it your way.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 121):
Again, no offense, but I remind you that this is a fan forum, so trying to bring down someone's argument with the "do you work in this industry" question is just not the way to go.

Again, no offense, but I remind you that this is a fan forum, so trying to bring down someone's argument with the "you're just a pilot with circumstantial evidence and no ties to the core of the company" statement is just not the way to go.



[Edited 2013-02-20 12:15:52]


Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 134, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6456 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 131):
LA is about to enter the market


If LAN Colombia is considering the MAD-BOG sector in the future, we may expect the cooperation service with Iberia and covered by the OneWorld banner.
The reduction on IB MAD-BOG 12x to 7x weekly might open a niche, in terms of weekly frequencies for LAN Colombia later.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 135, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6283 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 136):
Yes, the IB reduction will certainly make things easier for LAN. But as was said in a post before, AV is planning on going full double-daily to MAD in May, in order to fill the void (right now it's operating 10x weekly).

So I guess the route continues to be strong, unlike otherwise suggested. I guess it is just IB that is heading slowly but surely into deep trouble. Lets hope LAN will open MAD soon, yet my understanding is that they plan to grow in the US first before venturing out to Europe from BOG.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 136, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6286 times:
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Effective 01APR13, LAN will change its schedule on the SCL-BOG route in order to maximize connections via BOG:
LA752 SCL 23:50 BOG 05:00+1 B763 Daily
LA753 BOG 23:55 SCL 06:50+1 B763 Daily

Quoting bogota (Reply 137):
yet my understanding is that they plan to grow in the US first before venturing out to Europe from BOG.

That is correct. LAN Colombia plans to open new routes between Colombia and the U.S. in the short-term. LAN Colombia will certify up to five B-767-316ERs with the Aerocivil through out the year. Even though LAN continues to take on new B-767-316ERs, services to MAD from BOG will not commence until LAN receives its fifth 787 later this year.


User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 137, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6276 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 138):
That is correct. LAN Colombia plans to open new routes between Colombia and the U.S. in the short-term. LAN Colombia will certify up to five B-767-316ERs with the Aerocivil through out the year.

My understanding is that not five, but six planes will be certified. Not because they will all be based in BOG, but because that will give the flexibility in rotating planes outside BOG in places like MIA, SCL, JFK and LAX. Not sure how that works but that is what I was told.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 138, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6253 times:
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Quoting bogota (Reply 139):
My understanding is that not five, but six planes will be certified. Not because they will all be based in BOG, but because that will give the flexibility in rotating planes outside BOG in places like MIA, SCL, JFK and LAX. Not sure how that works but that is what I was told.

Yep. That's how LAN increases utilization of its fleet at destinations such as MIA, JFK, LAX, etc.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 141):
They do have quite a widebody shortage now that the 787 is grounded. I'm guessing we'll see BOG-MAD start for the 2013/14 winter season or the 2014 summer season.

LAN is taking on a new 763 this month and another 763 next month with three additional 763s being delivered later this year. Also, the A343 will remain on the SCL-MAD route until the end of May. Hopefully the 787 situation will be remedied by the start of the Northern Summer travel season. LA planned on deploying the A343s on the SCL-LIM-LAX route for the NS season; which would free up two B763s. Regardless, the next two 787s delivered will be deployed on the SCL-LIM-LAX route by the end of the year.

[Edited 2013-02-21 13:16:50]

User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 139, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 137):
So I guess the route continues to be strong, unlike otherwise suggested. I guess it is just IB that is heading slowly but surely into deep trouble

Last Novermber, IB publically stated that only 8 out 18 long haul routes were making money and that they would adjust capacity accordingly. SDQ , MDV and HAV got the chop. Others are seeing increases: MIA, MEX and GIG. The fact that BOG went down to just one daily would suggest it was among the loss making routes. IB is clearly not competitive.

I assume that AV, with a lower cost base, can make this market work as the increase in capacity would suggest. In an earlier post Trent772 mentioned that in a meeting an AV director mentioned significant losses on MAD. It would be useful to know when this would have been..

Quoting bogota (Reply 137):
Lets hope LAN will open MAD soon, yet my understanding is that they plan to grow in the US first before venturing out to Europe from BOG.

Not surprising. If they use a 787, that might give them a competitive edge. On a 767 this route might not be worth the effort.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 140, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6252 times:
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Quoting summa767 (Reply 143):

Quoting bogota (Reply 137):
Lets hope LAN will open MAD soon, yet my understanding is that they plan to grow in the US first before venturing out to Europe from BOG.

Not surprising. If they use a 787, that might give them a competitive edge. On a 767 this route might not be worth the effort.

Not worth the effort with the B763? LAN already operates two daily B763s into MAD from GYE and LIM. Get over it.


User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 141, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6239 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 144):
Not worth the effort with the B763? LAN already operates two daily B763s into MAD from GYE and LIM. Get over it.

You, yourself, said a couple of posts ago that LAN would wait until more 787s arrived before it launches BOG-MAD!

The fact that the route is worth the effort from GYE and LIM does not, necessarily, mean that it is worth the effort from BOG. For a start they would have to content with AV that has a strong presence on that market: it flies 3 times a day from Colombia to Spain.


Other news:
TACA is increasing its SAL-CLO flight from 3 x weekly to 5 x weekly.
Great news for Cali.

On the other hand, LAN, which had planned to increase frequencies from LIM via Ecuador to MDE and CLO will apparently not do so now.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 142, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6235 times:
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Quoting summa767 (Reply 145):
You, yourself, said a couple of posts ago that LAN would wait until more 787s arrived before it launches BOG-MAD!

The additional 787s will free up two more B763s for long-haul routes, i.e. BOG-MAD. You stated:

Quoting summa767 (Reply 143):
If they use a 787, that might give them a competitive edge. On a 767 this route might not be worth the effort.
Quoting summa767 (Reply 145):
The fact that the route is worth the effort from GYE and LIM does not, necessarily, mean that it is worth the effort from BOG. For a start they would have to content with AV that has a strong presence on that market: it flies 3 times a day from Colombia to Spain.

What's your point? LAN's entry on the BOG-MAD route would force Avianca to reduce fares on the route and I'm sure pax would welcome the competition.


User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 143, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6236 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 146):
The additional 787s will free up two more B763s for long-haul routes, i.e. BOG-MAD. You stated:

That's not what you said in the post that you went on to edit.
LAN is welcome to try the 767 on the BOG-MAD route. Indeed, it has had the rights for a long time now. Whether it will be worth the effort, it will have to be seen. However, I am not surprised that they are have decided to delay it.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 146):
What's your point? LAN's entry on the BOG-MAD route would force Avianca to reduce fares on the route and I'm sure pax would welcome the competition.

I, for one, welcome the competition. I have stated before that service standards, and not just fares, can improve.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 144, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6211 times:
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Quoting summa767 (Reply 147):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 146):
The additional 787s will free up two more B763s for long-haul routes, i.e. BOG-MAD. You stated:

That's not what you said in the post that you went on to edit.
LAN is welcome to try the 767 on the BOG-MAD route. Indeed, it has had the rights for a long time now. Whether it will be worth the effort, it will have to be seen. However, I am not surprised that they are have decided to delay it.

You do realize that LAN has three 787s grounded at the moment and is utilizing B763s on those routes? Luckily the carrier has new B763s joining the fleet soon. It's great that LAN Colombia is registering more B763s with the Aerocivil though.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 147):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 146):
What's your point? LAN's entry on the BOG-MAD route would force Avianca to reduce fares on the route and I'm sure pax would welcome the competition.

I, for one, welcome the competition. I have stated before that service standards, and not just fares, can improve.

Indeed, LAN will offer business class passengers 100% horizontal full flat seats in Business class; which Avianca does not offer in their Business class. Also, some passengers may enjoy the 2-3-2 configuration in economy on the B763 compared to Avianca's 2-4-2 configuration in coach.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 148):
How many seats on a LAN 763?

30J/191Y


User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 145, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 149):
Indeed, LAN will offer business class passengers 100% horizontal full flat seats in Business class; which Avianca does not offer in their Business class. Also, some passengers may enjoy the 2-3-2 configuration in economy on the B763 compared to Avianca's 2-4-2 configuration in coach.

Iberia offers the best Business service. It is certainly not LAN.
The 2:3:3 configuration is certainly better than LAN's 3:3:3 configuration and 31' pitch on its 787s.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 146, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6203 times:
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Quoting summa767 (Reply 150):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 149):
Indeed, LAN will offer business class passengers 100% horizontal full flat seats in Business class; which Avianca does not offer in their Business class. Also, some passengers may enjoy the 2-3-2 configuration in economy on the B763 compared to Avianca's 2-4-2 configuration in coach.

Iberia offers the best Business service. It is certainly not LAN.
The 2:3:3 configuration is certainly better than LAN's 3:3:3 configuration and 31' pitch on its 787s.

That's great for IB. However, I'm comparing the product that LAN will offer compared to the product that Avianca will offer on the BOG-MAD route with the B763. This will also apply to the BOG-JFK route when LAN launches it with the B763. Interestingly, when LAN launches BOG-MAD, I guess that only LA and IB will offer full flat seats in Business class on the route. Hopefully AV will renew their Business class product in the near term since both LA and IB are currently doing so. I have no idea what LAN's 787s has to do with the BOG-MAD route.


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6205 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 149):
30J/191Y

How many seats is LAN planning on selling on flights to MAD? LAN can't surely be thinking on selling all of the 221? I mean not if they intend to make the trip from BOG-MAD in one shot.

Can you disclose information on the weight LAN has figured for each pax? I' guessing somewhere around 180lbs for Men, 150-160lbs for Ladies and about half for children?



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