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BA A380 Crew Training Flights  
User currently offlinejumpjet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 281 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15754 times:

I can recall, somewhere in the deep and distant past, that BA intended to use their first A380 on crew training flights from LHR to MAD. Was it to be two return flights a day?

Does anyone know if this has been firmed up, or if it's indeed correct?

Any A-Netters fancy a day trip to Madrid in the summer?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15570 times:

Nothing has been announced yet. Although there is a logic of using MAD as it is an IAG hub, depending on how things go over the next few years, it could be a little insensitive and rub salt into wounds..

User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15340 times:

I've heard BCN from BA crew. Take it with a grain of salt, but considering BA's volume to BCN it would make sense.

User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1738 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15205 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 2):
I've heard BCN from BA crew. Take it with a grain of salt, but considering BA's volume to BCN it would make sense.

Also, doesn't BCN have a couple of A380 gates at the new terminal? Didn't think MAD was A380 ready??



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User currently offlinebthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15056 times:

They operate a couple of 767 flights to MAD but all BCN flights are A320. Would indicate MAD could handle the larger volumes.

User currently offlinetcx69k From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2012, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 14946 times:
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I have heard FRA will now be used for crew training flights as apposed to MAD as FRA is experienced in A380 operations. That said though, isn't it only T1 at FRA that has A380 gates? BA flies from T2.

User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14782 times:

Maybe follow AF's steps and fly to Paris. Wasn't part of the training to get more trips, not just hours?

User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7539 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14658 times:

If the past is a guide to the future this is what happened when BA received their first 772A, G-ZZZA, the last totally new long-haul aircraft to enter service with them:

21 May 96: a. LHR on delivery
22 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123/22)
23 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123'22)
24 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123/22)
25 May 96: LHR-RUH-LHR (BA135/34)
26 May 96: LHR-CAI-LHR (BA155/54)
27 May 96: LHR-CAI-LHR (BA155/54)
28 May 96: LHR-JED-LHR (BA155/54)
29 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123'22)
30 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123'22)
31 May 96: LHR-JED-LHR (BA155/54)
1 June 96: LHR-RUH-LHR (BA135/34)
2 June 96: LHR-CAI-LHR (BA155/54)
3 June 96: LHR-CAI-LHR (BA155/54)
4 June 96: LHR-JED-LHR (BA155/54)
5 June 96: LHR-CDG-LHR (BA322/23). LHR-RUH-LHR (BA135/34)
6 June 96: LHR-CDG-LHR (BA322/23)

It was then dedicated to the LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123'22) rotation at least until 11 June. This rotation may have been selected for a large number of the aircraft's initial operations because it offered twice the number of landings and take-offs than most other routes. However there were but two short-haul (obviously training) rotations in the first three weeks of operations. But, just as that guy trying to sell you a Unit Trust has to say, "past (financial) performance is not necessary a guide to likely future performance"


User currently offlineRedSnapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2012, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14610 times:

Quoting tcx69k (Reply 5):
I have heard FRA will now be used for crew training flights as apposed to MAD as FRA is experienced in A380 operations. That said though, isn't it only T1 at FRA that has A380 gates? BA flies from T2.

Korean operate A380s to FRA and use T2 don't they? Also didn't the first A380 demo/proving flights into FRA used T2, so no problems on that score.

Cheers
RS


User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13780 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3):
Didn't think MAD was A380 ready??

MAD T4S has two A380 gates and taxiways and runways are A380 ready.



So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13371 times:

Quoting tcx69k (Reply 5):

Send it to MAN. They're experienced in handling the A380   


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4921 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11938 times:

Both Terminals at FRA underwent major renovations in order to handle the A380...

I'm curious if the Tech Crew are going to receive any training onboard QF A380's... I know MH received training onboard QF aircraft... Any thoughts...?

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineEGPH From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11185 times:

Wouldn't be surprised if CDG and FRA turn out to be the bulk of BA A380 initial operations. MAD is likely but would certainly not be my first guess. Could actually also see them maybe doing a run or two to MAN if they have the time.

[Edited 2013-01-11 20:12:42]

User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 898 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9419 times:

BA's A380 training flights will consider a number of operational conditions that must be fulfilled to serve training purposes, such as:

- Number of take-offs/landings per day i.e. two LHR -XXX rotations per day vs. one multi-stop route per day.
- Ground time at outstation for adequate turn-around and resolving technical issues.
- Number of passengers and flight duration for cabin training, A380's long-haul product requires longer sectors.
- Airport A380 handling capability - runways, gates, etc.
- Distance from LHR for major techical issues, cost and time to recover aircraft.
- Marketing requirements, BA promotion in certain important markets while on ground at outstation.

This leads to the following observations:
- European destinations offer short hops & are low cost, permitting multiple daily rotations, but do not meet cabin training requirements.
- Middle East destinations with multiple sectors are ideal for cockpit and cabin training.
- North American destinations are single sector and perhaps too much like regular service.

The following example stations could qualify:
- ABZ - A320 flight with 1h:40m turnaround ...short flight, domestic promotion, but is the airport capable?
- AMS - B767 flight with 1h:50m turnaround...short flight, airport capable. Good for cockpit, not for cabin training.
- ARN - A319 flight with 3h:15m turnaround...medium flight, airport capable. Good for cockpit, less for cabin
- MAD - B767 flight with 1h:10m turnaround....short turnaround, medium distance, possible with delay!
- MCT - B777 flight with 2h:30m turnaround...multi-stop, good distance, good cockpit and cabin training


User currently offlineEGPH From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 8841 times:

Quoting factsonly (Reply 13):
The following example stations could qualify:
- ABZ - A320 flight with 1h:40m turnaround ...short flight, domestic promotion, but is the airport capable?
- AMS - B767 flight with 1h:50m turnaround...short flight, airport capable. Good for cockpit, not for cabin training.
- ARN - A319 flight with 3h:15m turnaround...medium flight, airport capable. Good for cockpit, less for cabin
- MAD - B767 flight with 1h:10m turnaround....short turnaround, medium distance, possible with delay!
- MCT - B777 flight with 2h:30m turnaround...multi-stop, good distance, good cockpit and cabin training

ABZ is a no as the airport is nowhere near capable. I think the only domestic route which would be A380 feasible would be MAN but it's only a 45 min hop. GLA is 1hr and has ample experience in the last few months of EK A343 aircraft for what that's worth. EDI (my home airport, please come here BA) has handled A346 (on special VS charters) and B747 (various one offfs) but have no capable gates for either they had to be dealt with through a remote stand. I think we only have 1 stand capable of dealing with heavies and that is Stand 6 and that only accommodates up to B767 aircraft. I think AF did once use it for a B747 charter but they had to block out 4 adjacent stands either side.

AMS I could see happening

ARN is currently a route frequently tasked to B767-300 a/c so again could do

MAD is highly likely

MCT could also happen with the big turnaround

I still think FRA and CDG should up there possibly with MAD as top contenders for the early days.


User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 8567 times:

I was being a bit facetious when I said MAN.
In reality the A380 ready gate at MAN T1 is dedicated to the 3 daily EK flights (1 of these operated on A380).
BA operate into MAN T3 so doubt it will happen as they'd have to operate from a remote stand.

Is DME capable? despite only being a short sector under 4 hours, LHR-DME on BA is a roundtrip, longhaul service so good for cabin crew experience.

CAI is another relatively short sector with longhaul service. Could that be an option?


User currently onlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6841 times:

I would expect an airfield capable of normal operations, A380 airbridge equipped and ready as delayed and missed connections cost a lot of money if passengers are kept mucking about on busses with no need. Is the BA terminal at CDG A380 ready? Not sure it is. If they use AMS they're on a different pier to the rest of the operation, MAD would be T4 as normal. GLA isn't likely as it's a bussing job, as is MAN. FRA is possible with airbridge direct at T2. We shall see.

User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6748 times:

Quoting tcx69k (Reply 5):
I have heard FRA will now be used for crew training flights as apposed to MAD as FRA is experienced in A380 operations. That said though, isn't it only T1 at FRA that has A380 gates? BA flies from T2.

This reply:

Quoting RedSnapper (Reply 8):
Korean operate A380s to FRA and use T2 don't they? Also didn't the first A380 demo/proving flights into FRA used T2, so no problems on that score.

is 100% correct.

In addition, when LH did some charter flights around Europe with their first A380 before putting it into scheduled service, they staged the flights from T2 so as not to interfere with regular operations at T1.

In terms of ground handling, FRA would be a good choice. However, I think the route is too short to get the cabin crew used to the aircraft. It's usually just a bit over an hour. A good practice run for the drivers though!

The other upside is that they could probably manage three returns per day, rather than the two per day that were mooted for LHR-MAD-LHR A380 ops.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2326 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6748 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):
GLA isn't likely as it's a bussing job

...from the end of the runway ? Its not taxiway/ turn off capable


User currently onlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6284 times:

Ah it's my good friend BY738. GLA can handle A346s and B744s easily and I wonder just how hard it would be to handle the A388? Minor details like taking out the Loganair hangar notwithstanding. Have you moved house dear boy? What takes you to er......wherever you are now?

User currently offlineavion660 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6104 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
If the past is a guide to the future this is what happened when BA received their first 772A, G-ZZZA, the last totally new long-haul aircraft to enter service with them:

A little off-topic, and apologies for being pedantic but BA's first 772A was not ZZA but ZZC then ZZD in November and December '95. I flew on ZZC in Jan 96 to CDG on one of the crew training flights. What intrigued me though was where you were able to get the first flights info for ZZA. Is this a source that you can share? DXB and CAI was also used for flights for those other aircraft as you listed for ZZA too.


User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7539 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

Quoting avion660 (Reply 20):
A little off-topic, and apologies for being pedantic but BA's first 772A was not ZZA but ZZC

Thanks for the correction.

Initially 'ZC also operated LHR-DXB-MCT (17 Nov 95). Along with 'ZD and 'ZE once they were delivered (29 Dec and 13 Jan respectively) it was then dedicated for the rest of the 1995-96 Winter Timetable to LHR-CAI-LHR, LHR-CDG-LHR and LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR rotations. Here it is worth noting that at that time LHR-CAI-LHR at 2,197 miles was the shortest BA long-haul rotation so was next best thing to a short-haul flight.


User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Because of its unusual size it would be better perhaps to send it to another A380 airport like FRA or CDG or even DXB.

The very short AF A380 LHR-CDG trial flights didn't give the staff an opportunity to trial how long it takes to serve passengers. The attendants ran out of time just serving a tea and a biscuit.

Is LHR Termainl 5 A380 ready? Don't remember seeing any gates with loads of bridges.


User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7539 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5635 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 22):
Is LHR Termainl 5 A380 ready?

It was reported almost seven years ago - that is two years before the terminal was opened and just a year after the 380 's first flight - that two stands at LHR T5 were already ready to receive the 380:

http://www.1blueplanet.com/community/index.php?topic=244.0


User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 33
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5589 times:

Quoting EGPH (Reply 14):
ARN is currently a route frequently tasked to B767-300 a/c so again could do

ARN has only one gate that can take an A380. F39. But the taxiway behind it is too narrow, so gates F38 F40 and F42 must be left empty for the A380 wingspan. (It looks awfully close with a B744!)
So we are expecting one proving flight for publicity, but no more. (as long as we can get a towbar!)


User currently onlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5486 times:

There's six I think, I'd need to double check my laptop but from memory they're the northernmost stands on T5C, three on either side.

[Edited 2013-01-12 11:06:54]

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