thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2098 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12768 times:
They must have gotten these 77L's for a good price. Or else why bother with the -LR. It's not like PS needs the range for JFK or YYZ, or any other intl destination they plan on serving that wasn't already accessible by the 763.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12168 posts, RR: 35 Reply 5, posted (11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12070 times:
No surprise that it's AI aircraft, since AI has been trying to get rid of these aircraft for quite a while and now, with VV out of the picture, PS can expand to some new routes. Presumably JFK, YYZ and PEK will be among the first routes and no doubt the 77L will find its way to DXB as well.
TK had been linked to these aircraft (rumour only), so I guess this deepens the rumour as to where TK will find the 777s it intends to lease in the short term.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28576 posts, RR: 84 Reply 9, posted (11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10694 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 4): They must have gotten these 77L's for a good price. Or else why bother with the -LR. It's not like PS needs the range for JFK or YYZ, or any other intl destination they plan on serving that wasn't already accessible by the 763.
The majority of 777-200LR operators likely chose the model for it's payload-over-range and fuel-burn advantages over the 777-200ER and not because of it's longer range.
By the time the 777-200LR entered revenue service, most people who needed a long-range 777-sized twin already had the 777-200ER in their fleet. Almost every 777-200LR customer was a customer new to the 777, so if the 777-200ER was more efficient out to it's MZFW (5800nm), one would think the 777-200LR's sales would be even less as those new customers would have chosen the 777-200ER.
widebodyphotog ran the numbers and he noted that:
Quote: The improvement in TSFC, propulsive efficiency, and airframe L/D more than negate the drag penalty of the relatively small increase in structural weight of 777-200LR vs 777-200ER. Those improvements allow the airplane about a 3% better fuel burn/unit payload than 777-200ER at ranges beyond 2,000nm. At the design payload and range of the 777-200ER the 777-200LR need only takeoff at 665,000lbs, only 9,000lbs above the structural MTOW of 777-200ER. The difference in TOW's is significantly less than the difference in OEW of the two aircraft. This difference in TOW weights and the increase in OEW of 777-200LR is all fuel, which is a lower at that payload range point for 777-200LR. This lower fuel requirement is due entirely to the better airframe/engine performance of 777-200LR.
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 16): I really want to know how much they paid...I bet they got fire sale prices.
Average value for 777-200KRs of AI's age would be between $105 and $113 million. AI appeared to be willing to hold out for a premium, so it seems somewhat unlikely that they would suddenly decide to "fire-sale" them.
Slawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6550 times:
AI wasn't holding out for a premium. No one wanted them because of the cost of getting them back in flying condition. The record keeping (or lack there of) especially for such new airplanes was in such a bad condition that you essentially had to go over every part. UIA has their work cut out for them. Hope we see them in YYZ for the summer at least.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1759 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6273 times:
Isn't the GE-90-110 a more efficient engine than the -94? The 77L is just too much capability for most airlines, but if anyone would order a new 772 I guess the L is a better choice then the er, other than cost. There has been no new 200 orders for ever right?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28576 posts, RR: 84 Reply 22, posted (11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5849 times:
Quoting Slawko (Reply 19): AI wasn't holding out for a premium. No one wanted them because of the cost of getting them back in flying condition. The record keeping (or lack there of) especially for such new airplanes was in such a bad condition that you essentially had to go over every part.
That charge was brought up in the original AI sale thread, but I seem to recall a number of members with contacts with AI Engineering stating that the paperwork was in fact up-to-spec.
As an aside, if the planes' maintenance records were in fact not maintained, could that have affected operations to the US and EU?
Many, myself included, believed it was the cost to convert the cabin from AI's standard to the new customer's was the main issue. Per an unreferenced link in Wikipedia, it is said the planes will be reconfigured from three classes to two, but perhaps PS will instead operate them in the AI configuration and save the costs.
JoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5264 posts, RR: 30 Reply 24, posted (11 months 4 days ago) and read 5598 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 22): Many, myself included, believed it was the cost to convert the cabin from AI's standard to the new customer's was the main issue. Per an unreferenced link in Wikipedia, it is said the planes will be reconfigured from three classes to two, but perhaps PS will instead operate them in the AI configuration and save the costs.
I don't think UIA is as picky about the cabin features or decor as some. I flew on some of their 737's a few years ago and the interiors were stock from whomever they purchased the planes...down to the Spanish labels on everything.
I suspect they'll put the planes into service with the AI interiors, but paint the exterior, which I think is a smart move. The branding is on the outside of the plane...once you see the interior, you've already bought a ticket. Fly the plane as is and do the interior when you have the available cash.
[Edited 2013-01-13 10:49:08]
25 na: After trying to get rid of these planes for years now in some way or the other I wouldnt wonder if they are fed up and sold them whoever who wants th
26 Tdan: Oi, in 5 years, we'll be talking about the bankruptcy of Ukraine International if they go through with this! Why can't sound analysis rule the day ove
27 Slawko: If they got the 777's for next to nothing then they could in fact be cheaper to operate than the 767's. Further, they are literally in the middle of t
28 irshava: is incredibly full*. Well JFK at least, not too sure about YYZ but loadfactors are in the 80+%.
29 FreshSide3: Chicago would be a natural choice. Lots of Ukrainians there, and lots of interest by Ukrainians in visiting the Windy City. In fact, they recently op
30 Tupolev160: Latest news on this topic include: - VV transferring most of flights to PS and still operating just a handful of key routes - PS reestablishing Europe
31 Tupolev160: For me it is just unbelievable that AI finally managed to get rid of those 77L, seemed like they'll never be able to sell them. Any clue at what price
32 FreshSide3: I meant to say YWG, not YEG on this....