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Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?  
User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 313 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15476 times:

With the addition of Qatar to the OneWorld alliance, and a very powerful middle eastern carrier with connections to the levant more readily available, will RJ eventually be dropped from OneWorld? BA is keeping AMM from the BD routes and has stopped selling RJ. The only other OW airline that I see still selling RJ is AA. Also, RJ posted massive losses in 2011 and is expected to have done very poorly with reduced yields and high gas prices (along with the Arab spring) in 2013.

It's very unfortunate to see RJ in such poor shape, especially considering that RJ was doing extremely well 2006/2007. But does it seem feasible for OW to keep RJ, or even vice versa?


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28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2499 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15284 times:

Quoting liftsifter (Thread starter):
With the addition of Qatar to the OneWorld alliance, and a very powerful middle eastern carrier with connections to the levant more readily available, will RJ eventually be dropped from OneWorld?

I don't think RJ will drop out of OneWorld. I do however think that OneWorld airlines are not cooperating that much with RJ. BA was forced to drop their codes on RJ fights AMM when they took over BD. BA could have put their codes on flights from AMM to let's say Sanaa, Aden, Baghdad and other Iraqi cities, etc... but this lack of cooperation does is not limited to RJ but is generally a feature of OneWorld.



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User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15259 times:
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Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 1):

Agreed! Its almost like its BA and AA enjoying the closest relationship and then you have the rest that dont show a unified alliance such as Star Alliance.


User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 479 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 14245 times:

Quoting VCy (Reply 2):
Its almost like its BA and AA enjoying the closest relationship and then you have the rest that dont show a unified alliance such as Star Alliance.

I wouldn't say that, I mean QF, JL and AA all cooperate fairly well with each other, and LA and AA also work well together. Its more QF, CX and BA that have had their issues recently as well as AB who looks like they're getting closer to AF-KL and Skyteam.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12239 times:

There'd be no point leaving OW alliance for ST or * A as both have members in close proximity to RJ.

With BD being fully absorbed now into BA, what is stopping BA working more closely with RJ on LHR-AMM?


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12052 times:

Quoting spud757 (Reply 4):
With BD being fully absorbed now into BA, what is stopping BA working more closely with RJ on LHR-AMM?

The EU. Approval for the bmi takeover was on the basis that either BA dropped the route, or didn't codeshare with RJ so as to maintain competition



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User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12019 times:

I really like all the airlines within OW, but for whatever reason they don't work together well. It could be simply because BA and AA really only need each other to have a fully sustainable route network, with very vast coverage.

How is OW even helping RJ anymore though? It's clear the tie up hasn't led to a significant increase in profit.



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User currently offlineboeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11430 times:

I doubt RJ will be dropped from oneworld, there is very little reason to do that. Just because QR is joining doesnt really mean much, from what I know QR and RJ have a different strategy. As for none of the airlines really supporting and copra ring with them it's not a huge problem in oneworld. There a bunch of airlines that don't like/cooperate with each other. For example QF and Cathay Pacfic do not get along. But they are both founding members. That doesn't mean that one should be dropped.

One question: who sponsored RJ into oneworld? The most logical member would be BA.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineblink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10980 times:

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 7):
One question: who sponsored RJ into oneworld? The most logical member would be BA.

IIRC it was IB



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10816 times:

How are BA doing on AMM? The flight prices always seemed much lower to Amman than to neighbouring Beirut.
Confusing. I hope that RJ manage to sort out their problems. Are they still operating those A340-200s and A310s?



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10632 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 9):
Are they still operating those A340-200s and A310s?

RJ still operates A342 (4) and have recently removed A310s (2) from service.



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User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25166 posts, RR: 48
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10533 times:

British Airways was the sponsor for Royal Jordanian’s entry into the alliance.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2300 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10138 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
British Airways was the sponsor for Royal Jordanian’s entry into the alliance.

Not sure that means they must remain in OW however


User currently offlineboeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9191 times:

Quoting by738 (Reply 12):

If you are referring to RJ then of course they don't have to stay in OneWorld. But if they would drop OneWorld then where would they go? They are not in the best finical position, so the other alliances might stay away from them. It's not like RJ brings anything unique to the table, *A and ST already have the Middle East covered.

So I don't see RJ dropping out of OneWorld anytime voluntarily.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8735 times:

The chances of RJ being kicked out of OW are zero.

They might depart on their own one day, but it isnt likely.



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User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4907 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7324 times:

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 10):

Didn't RJ recently accept delivery of factory fresh A332's...?

EK413

[Edited 2013-01-12 19:30:21]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineflylonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6900 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 15):

RJ currently operates 3 x 332. I think these were delivered around 2010? (Just memory, could be wrong)

Apparently they are to be phased out in 2018! Looks like they may be aiming to keep a young fleet in the future.



Flying for Pleasure
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4907 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6862 times:

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 16):
Apparently they are to be phased out in 2018! Looks like they may be aiming to keep a young fleet in the future.

Did I read it right, the NEW A332's to be phased out in 2018...?

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25166 posts, RR: 48
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6773 times:

The 3 strong A330 fleet is all leased.

The most recent example (the 3rd one) is on lease till January 2017 to be exact. I don't recall end dates on the other 2.

Matter of fact most of RJ's fleet is leased. All but a handful of the A319/320/321 are leased in as well. The entire Embraer fleet is on 10-year leases. Even 4 of the 787 order will arrive under lease.

Only the A310s are (were) fully owned.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

The A330 fleet is simply interim for the delayed 787s. 11 787's to replace 7 A340/330.

RJ was certainly planning some big expansion with the 787's, but there was a slight 4 year delay.   



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User currently offlineFlyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6005 times:

RJ is one of the last airlines where you get a chance to fly A342. I was once booked on their A342 oneway and A310 on the other. Unfortunately both flights were operated by a A310. I hope they do stay in OW though I can see the point of the question. If BA is not allowed to cooperate with them, AB doesn't want (EY connection) and there is QR in the region, what is the point. Though, one has to also ask, what would be better if they were not part of OW?

User currently offlineflylonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5877 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

Ah that makes more sense. I remember hearing that they were to phased out, but didn't know they were leased.

Hopefully when the 787s arrive they can start heading in the right direction again.

Were they not voted airline of the year in 2006 or 2007?



Flying for Pleasure
User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5835 times:

Airline of the Year 2007, under the leadership of Majali. RJ was on the path to becoming a world renowned airline.


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User currently offlineflylonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5760 times:

Jeez, it's a shame RJ isn't in the same shape now.


Flying for Pleasure
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2957 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5150 times:

It's home market is having a very difficult time if it lately, and the Arab spring and Syria are not helping at all for RJ.

Their strategy was fine in good times yes, but those troubles have taken the momentum away.

As for leaving OW, what for? They won't be leaving and they won't be kicked out. Both those options hold no value for anyone.


25 PresRDC : I'll tell you this. RJ's gate security at AMM makes them uncompetitive with EK and EY. In 2012 I flew all three from their respective home bases to JF
26 Post contains images liftsifter : I'm sorry, but that's a really terrible excuse not to fly an airline. RJ PAX receive automatic full screening on all flights into the US. It's just t
27 PresRDC : Unless the TSA rules are different for the UAE, then RJ is chosing to impliment a more stringent check than is required. Regardless of the cause, it
28 9w748capt : Wow - that's a lot more invasive than what I encountered. When I transited at AMM the screener basically opened one or two zippers of my multiple-com
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