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WN/FL February 4, 2013 Schedule Update Predictions  
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 561 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19462 times:

Well it's almost time for WN/FL to release the next schedule extensions.
Will they convert more cites over to WN?
Will FL get new international flying feeding the new WN code share network?
Predictions?
My predictions or what I would like to see are:
DCA flights being reshuffled with MKE and ATL seeing service scaled back making use of slots for MDW flts.
RIC,PNS,GRR,DAY now with a code share in place seeing a reshuffling of FL flying to connect these cites with WN hubs like MDW,DEN,STL and HOU.
New WN ATL market like ATL-ISP,ATL-MHT,ATL-SNA(one can dream).
New weekend only non stop flying to SJU flying to feed holiday ship passengers.
FINALLY A CODE SHARE               
wnfg 


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
207 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3535 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19437 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
FINALLY A CODE SHARE

That is really all that matters at this point. Everything else is just icing on the cake


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4132 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19438 times:

Of course there's a whole list of routes that WN should fly, but you touched on one of them: MHT-ATL. DL has this to themselves, and they do nothing with it. A single ill-timed RJ for a 952-mile run right now. Sure, one or 2 MD-88s in peak season, but business travelers don't even HAVE a 'peak season.'

So, I would love to see WN go 2x daily MHT-ATL...even if they sacrificed one or two existing BWI runs to do it.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19320 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):

An awful lot there. I doubt we ever see ATL-MHT. PNS-HOU is a no brainer at some point.


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3192 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19283 times:
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Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):

We can dream about WN ATL-ISP, but I doubt it. Maybe further down the line though.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19127 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):

Agreed!!
When it comes to this merger It's made me scratch my head so much it hurts.
When you look at the history of WN growth or use the Morris Air merger as example how they would handle this merger.
It almost seems like they took the OLD play book and threw it out the door.
Which may have been a good plan or may not have been a good plan only time will tell.
I hope for the future of every WN employee 2013-2014 brings out a lot of new ROIC finally with this merger.
I still think buying FL was 110% better than F9 would have ever been.
I understand and get the long term goals of shipping off the 717. But being a kid from LGB and of both parents that made the MD95. I was really hoping She would wear WN paint.
sorry for the side track back to predictions..
I hope this next schedule update comes with a Code share and brings things together finally.
This schedule should see something like 3 or 6 FL717 lines be replaced with WN metal.
I'm thinking most of the first Lines will be BWI, MKE and MCO related.
But if the code share plays out then anything is possible.
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19128 times:

So WN will at some point launch GRR-DEN, prompting F9 to pull out of the route. F9 might as well end service the day WN starts it, rather than the compete for a short while, similar to CAK and DAY from DEN. F9 would just plan a new TTN route.

I could see WN having GRR-BWI, MCO, DEN, HOU and TPA (seasonal).

[Edited 2013-01-13 09:10:54]

User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1017 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19120 times:

ATL-SAN
HOU-SJU
MSY-CUN
MSY-MBJ
OAK-SJD



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18772 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
New WN ATL market like ATL-ISP,ATL-MHT,ATL-SNA(one can dream).

I doubt that ATL-SNA will be started. WN already offers single-plane service routed ATL-PHX-SNA, and I question if they have enough demand to fill a daily n/s on the route. That last point is also valid for ATL-ISP and ATL-MHT, though I know nothing about demand on those routes, so I'd be happy for someone to correct me.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 7):
ATL-SAN

FL used to fly this route several years ago. With the codeshare coming online, I think there is a decent chance that WN will bring this back (using its own metal) because the ATL "focus city" provides plenty of connecting traffic.

Also, how likely is it that STL will be converted to WN-only service? I know that STL is a major operation for WN, and with only 2 destinations served by FL from it, I would think it would be a good candidate for conversion in the near future.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18770 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 6):
I could see WN having GRR-BWI, MCO, DEN, HOU and TPA (seasonal).

GRR is tough because it is so close to MDW and WN has shown that they dont want to fly markets with lots of thru or connect traffic, (Ie they dropped IND from MDW) there has to be a local market. That said, without STL or MDW, there is no way to get GRR pax around the midwest or midsouth ( I suppose you could go GRR-BWI-BNA/MSY/BHM etc).

GRR-BWI/MCO are obvious. DEN is likely, but not 100%. I think HOU is too thin (UA flies only one RJ to IAH). STL? If there is local traffic, Id say possibly.

Does WN want to be able to offer their entire network to pax when they open a new market? There are few markets where the answer to that is No, for instance DSM (can be done but circuitous) ditto FNT. I dont know WN's strategy WRT cities like DSM and GRR and FNT.


User currently onlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18732 times:

I'd love to see DCA fully converted, but that's probably not going to happen. Also, sad to say, I highly doubt 4x MKE-DCA is going to be sticking around for much longer--is this now a WN monopoly route?

MHT-ATL would have been good on FL, but I fear that it'll never happen on WN. Why connect in ATL when BWI is closer and has (or probably would have) far more daily options?

I'm excited to see more SJU. I have a feeling WN, NK, and B6 are definitely going to pick up where AA has cut.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2764 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18641 times:

Just gotta throw my    in here, eh?

I would think that converting the stations that have the least amount of current FL flights might make the most sense to convert in this next announcement. From info that I have (and it could be a bit dated, and I certainly don't claim this as exactly accurate at present, but still will get my idea across...) is that there are a number of stations with only routes to ATL on FL, and that these could get priority in this transition. So from my knowledge these stations include LAX, PHX, ICT, MCI, STL, MSY, PNS, JAX, MEM and RDU. These are stations that could simply change their FL metal to WM metal and be done in this transition to all WN flights. A few more stations have FL flights to both ATL and MCO, such as BUF, DTW, and RIC. They could go next.

MCO is a station that seems to be getting not so much attention here as ATL is. I do believe that they were the second largest station for FL...... and yet ATL is grabbing almost all of the spotlight. There's about 20 or so destination from there that will need attending to as well.......

Since I always like DEN expansion, there is a void here to the upper New York State area here. BUF and ALB could probably support enough O&D traffic year round to support nonstop flights here year around. ROC is strong here in the summer months. So will WN get a jump here on UA and F9?

Again, as always...... just my   ......

 


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5462 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 18501 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Well it's almost time for WN/FL to release the next schedule extensions.

Can you please include the effective dates for this next extension? It's this fall, I think...

bb


User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 18427 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
ATL-ISP

That definitely will not happen before LGA-ATL on WN metal....


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18333 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
GRR is tough because it is so close to MDW and WN has shown that they dont want to fly markets with lots of thru or connect traffic, (Ie they dropped IND from MDW) there has to be a local market. That said, without STL or MDW, there is no way to get GRR pax around the midwest or midsouth ( I suppose you could go GRR-BWI-BNA/MSY/BHM etc).

GRR-BWI/MCO are obvious. DEN is likely, but not 100%. I think HOU is too thin (UA flies only one RJ to IAH). STL? If there is local traffic, Id say possibly.

When it dropped IND-MDW, gone was IND-MDW-MSP. Instead it offers IND-DEN-MSP which is awkward (974 miles, and then 679 miles) when a connection stop at MDW is 161 and 349 miles, and a natural nonstop is 502 miles. So if awkward is fine for a couple of routes from IND, it'd be done for smaller stations like GRR.

WN decided it wasn't worthwhile to have optimal connections to everywhere, but focus on specific routes and accessibility. As for GRR, HOU would help for midsouth coverage a bit, but it might be thin, but a 1x daily could be tested, maybe once WN can sell international flights from HOU. Along with it being a major market, HOU will be a gateway for that vacation stuff WN wants to sell.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 8):
FL used to fly this route several years ago. With the codeshare coming online, I think there is a decent chance that WN will bring this back (using its own metal) because the ATL "focus city" provides plenty of connecting traffic.

It also helps that WN is the leading carrier at SAN, and San Diego is a destinational place, thus the ability to stimulate traffic. I think it's actually one of the lower hanging fruits and surprised WN didn't launch it, but instead went for ATL-ORF.


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18237 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):

With the 717 lines being replaced 3 at a time.
I think from here until 2015 you will see a lot of little schedule releases with 1 or 3 month extensions.
I could have this wrong but I think this is a extinction for SEP only.
This time around there really is no Rumor mill from inside WN.
I'm for once impressed no one's talking about anything when it comes to new flying.
Example AirTran MDW service to Punta Cana and Montego Bay never got leaked.
Which is rare for WN BUT good it keeps everything a surprise.
With Sept being a slow season I could see WN reshuffle some flying to ADD MEM,PNS,RIC and GRR into the WN network.
My predictions going off what they did with the size of the other FL conversions last round are.
MEM 2 HOU,2 MDW,1 BWI, 1 MCO.
PNS 2 HOU,2 STL ,1 BWI.
RIC 2 MDW,1 HOU,1 TPA,1 MCO.
GRR 2 BWI,2 STL,1 DEN.
wnfg


           



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 18173 times:

Code-share is coming final kinks are being worked out

User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1441 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 18135 times:

The SWA schedule extension is through Sept 27 on Feb 4.

----

If testing went as planned in December (IDK) then this is the code share schedule:

soft rollout, January,
Phase 1 more full rollout in February,
Full rollout in March.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 15):
I think from here until 2015 you will see a lot of little schedule releases with 1 or 3 month extensions.

I agree, more extensions but with less length to them would make sense with 3 717s leaving each month.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 15):
My predictions going off what they did with the size of the other FL conversions last round are.

I think those are solid guesses, I have a feeling that RIC-ATL will be kept though, whether its at WN or FL is to be seen.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 10):
I'd love to see DCA fully converted

For DCA, when all is said and done, I could see
5 ATL (FL)
5 MDW (WN)
1 MKE (WN or FL)
1 RSW, PBI or FLL depending on which they want to operate with that slot (FL)
2 STL (WN)
1 AUS (WN)
and 1 HOU if they get it (WN)

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
ATL-ISP,ATL-MHT,ATL-SNA

I think these are fair additions, I don't think we will see them all in one addition though. I do also expect to see SAN at some point.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinenomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 18096 times:

MEM: BWI, HOU, MDW
RIC: HOU, MDW
PNS: BWI, HOU, MDW
Wild card: GEG or BOI to MDW (why not?)


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 17989 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 11):
Since I always like DEN expansion, there is a void here to the upper New York State area here. BUF and ALB could probably support enough O&D traffic year round to support nonstop flights here year around

I would love to see DEN-BUF/ALB, although I doubt it, especially in the case of ALB. However, BUF already has PHX and LAS service, and I believe they are the only medium sized city in the Northeast still with PHX service, as WN dropped MHT-PHX and PVD-PHX.

MHT has both DEN and LAS service, as does BDL. ALB only has LAS, and PVD only has DEN. I'm worried that if WN were to launch ALB-DEN, we might see LAS get cut back.

BUF-DEN has about 118 PDEW, while ALB-DEN has around 81 PDEW. ROC-DEN has 69 PDEW.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 17963 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 17):
For DCA, when all is said and done, I could see
5 ATL (FL)
5 MDW (WN)
1 MKE (WN or FL)
DCA will be interesting to watch. It might not want to cut MKE too much, as it's an exclusive route and necessary for preserving it's position at MKE. And adding DCA-MDW at 5x will make IAD-MDW have to shrink drastically. Maybe something like 5 ATL, 3 MDW, 3 MKE from DCA, and the other routes, and 3 MDW, 2 BNA, 2 DEN from IAD.

[Edited 2013-01-13 18:34:08]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 17930 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 20):
Maybe something like 5 ATL, 3 MDW, 3 MKE from DCA, and the other routes, and 3 MDW, 2 BNA, 2 DEN from IAD.

IAD is a niche station. Why does it need BNA service?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 17880 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
IAD is a niche station. Why does it need BNA service?

I don't think it's niche. Why does it need DEN?


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1441 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 17864 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 22):
I don't think it's niche. Why does it need DEN?

DEN and MDW offer connections. They do not want to serve IAD large so they offer 2 cities with many connections.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 17825 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 22):
I don't think it's niche. Why does it need DEN?

How is it anything but niche? Is there any other station like it?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 Flytravel : It's not niche like a leisure destination or some remote market. Small doesn't mean niche. WN at CLE is small too, and it has BNA service of all thin
26 Cubsrule : It's very much a "remote market" in the WN world because of its proximity to BWI. Thus, it supports only very limited service. CLE has more than twic
27 airliner371 : Well its not nearly as small and they have a different purpose in the WN network. Why serve BNA when most if not all of those cities can be served fr
28 Post contains images point2point : I think that maybe these are slow season numbers..... and those numbers do just about double in the summer months...... which at that point is enough
29 QANTAS747-438 : I will estimate that WN will announce new Caribbean routes on WN metal. Now that they're certified to fly to places like SJU, I can see them trying to
30 Flytravel : WN is strong at BNA and has been linking BNA to most major business markets, including service to both NY airports (LGA and EWR) from BNA. This is why
31 airliner371 : If the were to add a city south from IAD it would most likely be HOU anyway. They are in different categories. They have had 7 flights for sometime n
32 Flytravel : Maybe. But, United would still command a premium with the business pax flying into DCA. WN dropped HOU-PHL not BNA-PHL, but there were 3 carriers on
33 SANFan : Thank you for what I think is an important piece of information to the topic being discussed here. bb
34 USAirALB : Maybe, but F9 serves neither ALB or BUF.
35 Post contains images point2point : Oooops.... meant to write WN there since this is the subject of the thread..... but at any rate, having no service currently at any airport doesn't s
36 dolphinflyer : While I agree that (for ALB's sake) I'd hate to see ALB-LAS n/s service go away, I would argue that ALB-DEN would offer more bang for the buck, i.e.
37 Post contains images Mexicana757 : Well here are my predictions for MDW only. MDW-DCA 3X or 4x daily to complement the IAD services. Only UA and AA fly between DCA and Chicago. MDW-SJU
38 usflyguy : Aren't they both hourly or pretty close to hourly?
39 ERJ170 : Here is my prediction for RDU... ?????? I honestly have no earthly clue.. would love some MSY and MCI but Lawd knows I don't know what is being though
40 enilria : YES. I think you will see more stations like PNS lose ATL service. I can say with fair certainty that scheduling still does not trust the code share
41 bobloblaw : Unfortunately yes. Clark Howard who was so excited about WN, will end up disappointed in what WN does to ATL in the end.
42 ouboy79 : Any market that doesn't have substantial high yield O&D will get cut. That is a no brainer. You could argue the same with F9 pulling profitabilit
43 Mexicana757 : UA has hourly service, AA has about 8x daily between DCA-ORD.
44 Post contains links iowaman : Here's a master list for reference I have kept up in previous schedule releases. Everything in the route list has been announced. Please let me know i
45 Post contains images enilria : That freight train is already gaining a lot of speed. So, pretty much everything is getting cut? Few have enough local O&D for 12 DL flights plus
46 ERJ170 : You forgot seasonal 2nd DEN-RDU AND A 2nd permanent RSU-STL... And FL is doing RDU-MCO/FLL/TPA replacing 2/1/1 respectively...
47 airliner371 : And you know this how.... I can promise you there is a set date and we just don't know it. And those are with a very limited presence in ATL. I'm not
48 Post contains images Mexicana757 : The MDW-PUJ start date is May 19.
49 ouboy79 : Yeah I guess the build up of operations at BWI, MKE, and MDW really meant nothing. How foolish of me. I should have known that FL would have stopped
50 Post contains links 1337Delta764 : Now this is a surprise. WN has served this route for a very long time, and now there are no nonstop flights between ABQ and TUS, forcing pax to conne
52 iowaman : Corrected, thanks. I didn't include DEN-RDU/STL as those are frequency adjustments (sorry, this is complicated enough just doing routes). This is bas
53 mke717spotter : I was also surprised/disappointed to learn that this route was ending because I always assumed there was enough local traffic between the two cities
54 Post contains images point2point : Taking about 15 minutes or so..... and using (copying and pasting and formulating on spreadsheet) the T-100 stats and some other googling...... what
55 enilria : How can you promise something you don't know? Because there was no code share on the original schedule. You just made my point. No, FL is not a big e
56 bobloblaw : WN pulling down ATL will open up gates for Spirit. If Spirit can make DFW work, they can do the same in ATL.
57 enilria : I kind of hope F9 could make that work, but NK is probably more likely given track record.
58 ouboy79 : I'm not sure how your company handles it, but there are things employees are trained on/told but are not in the position to acknowledge due to confid
59 JaxMan19 : I always thought JAX-MDW was route that was always missing from WN routemap. Is there any reason why they havent started this? also the following coul
60 iowaman : Thanks, I updated it with DEN-SJD, I believe all the other Mexico routes have started. If WN started ALB-DEN I don't see PHX or LAS being as importan
61 southwest737500 : It is unfortunately AirTran ends CLT on april 13 and SWA begins 6 daily flights the next day
62 ouboy79 : Why is it unfortunate? For how many schedule releases where you on here upset that WN hadn't announced the CLT conversion yet. Now that they are, you
63 southwest737500 : Well ive been a huge AirTran fan since 1998, I didnt think they would end everything thats why its unfortunate. All this means is higher fares. facep
64 airliner371 : All they are ending from CLT is ATL. They are keeping BWI and MCO and adding MDW and HOU.
65 ouboy79 : Ummm. You don understand what a merger/acquisition is all about right? AirTran is a dead brand walking. To not think that is just being oblivious to
66 kkephart13 : Im so glad im not the only one that noticed that.... Adding on to that, They are going from 4 daily FL with minimal options to 6 Daily Southwest flig
67 Post contains images zippyjet : Funny you should ask/predict. At BWI which has been "Swalife Country," over 10 years the indoctrination/conversion begins in earnest. 1. February 4:
68 usflyguy : Enough already with "Swalife." It's the internal company website and it makes no sense whatsoever to call the company Swalife.
69 southwest737500 : I understand what a merger is. I've seen alot of them in my life
70 bobloblaw : If WN pulls down ATL enough, it will open up gates for a big NK expansion. If NK can make DFW a focus, they can do the same in ATL.
71 airliner371 : Its not gonna happen so this won't be a possibility. CLT is nothing but benefiting. I had to read this sentence multiple times just to figure out wha
72 ouboy79 : Agreed. The brand is important to the company, hence why you don't see "Southwest" plastered on FL aircraft that haven't been stripped yet. Using dif
73 airliner371 : Now just 2 weeks away from release.
74 yellowtail : might we seem some more international stuff out of AUS....
75 Post contains images wnflyguy : There being really hush hush about this next update. I hope with the code share we see a lot of new flying. Hopefully they cut away the over lap marke
76 yellowtail : Certain AUS-International routes would work.....maybe AUS-PTY/SAL
77 airliner371 : The SWA route map is showing (as of right now) ATL to RSW and FLL. Since the new schedule comes out on Monday, I assume it is just out early but we wi
78 mah4546 : Is that a joke? Because those will never work. Ever.
79 Post contains images zippyjet : How about WN ding FLL-PTY/SAL or DAL-PTY/SAL? If you do AUS it could be a stopping point on say BWI-AUS-SAL. Maybe in the near future (within 1 to 2
80 bobloblaw : There is no local market from DFW area to PTY and SAL. Only AA can make it work with their massive at DFW. If WN flies to Central America it will be
81 airliner371 : Until the Wright Amendment is completely gone, WN can not fly international from DAL.
82 iowaman : DAL will still not be opened up to international non-stop flights once Wright is gone.
83 airliner371 : Sorry, let me clarify, I meant if/when it is completely removed.[Edited 2013-01-24 20:31:05]
84 bobloblaw : The answer to your question is still.....No.
85 EWRandMDW : As the 737 flies, it is a fairly short distance. However, for those not familiar with Great Lakes geography, to drive between Chicago and Grand Rapid
86 bobloblaw : Yes, youre missing a major development with WN in the past 6-12 months. They drop routes if there is no local and too much connecting traffic. Unless
87 Cubsrule : Based on the geography, it's not obvious to me that it would not have a significant amount of local traffic. I don't know whether it would be fifty p
88 Post contains links and images ouboy79 : http://www.southwest.com/assets/pdfs...les/20130217_20130122_2000/atl.pdf That will answer all your questions.
89 usflyguy : Code-share flights... Oh my!
90 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Yes, but it looks like they're taking baby steps right now. (Probably a good idea to make sure all goes smoothly) I looked at the FLL & RSW sched
91 Post contains links and images airliner371 : -- Also... heres an update to travelers with AirTran airport info... http://www.southwest.com/html/air/airport-information.html -- I would also point
92 ouboy79 : Exactly. That would be correct. Also if you try to go out and book on Southwest.com now here are the details it discloses... This itinerary is operat
93 GSPflyer : I would like to see new routes from GSP. GSP-STL might work, as well as GSP-FLL or GSP-TPA. Although very unlikely, I would like to see GSP-DEN or GSP
94 bobloblaw : The ATl-SDF/ORF flights are the ones that desperately need codesharing. There's not. GRR-MKE had a bit with Frontier.. The drive from GRR-Chicago isn
95 Post contains links airliner371 : For all codeshare talk please go to the designated thread, Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran.
96 Cubsrule : My recollection is that C8 saw a decent amount of local traffic on GRR-MDW, but that recollection may be incorrect. The portions of the drive in Mich
97 ouboy79 : GRR was traditional one of the strongest C8 markets, even well before TZ showed up.
98 FL787 : Anyone else notice that MSP-RSW is now on the route map for some reason? EDIT: Disregard, somehow I missed WN adding Saturday only service MSP-RSW thi
99 southwest737500 : Im very excited for WN in CLT and i cant wait to fly them.But i cant help bringing up a possibility of DEN from CLT. I understand its early but i say
100 ouboy79 : DEN wouldn't shock me. It has service to a good number of WN markets except for a lot of the smaller cities. CLT definitely isn't a small city.
101 enilria : Given the comments about how "sub-optimal" the FL network is in the quarterly call, I'd expect big changes to ATL. What those are I have no idea. It s
102 airliner371 : I don't know, maybe selective hearing, but that same quarterly call said that they expect ATL to keep the same number of flights within 10 flights. T
103 zippyjet : Re ATL: Breaking into ATL besides going International were the two big reasons WN bought us FL. To drastically reduce ATL service would be counter pr
104 YXwatcherMKE : I know that there is an high number of you out there that want to see the MKE - DCA flights reduced to 1 or 2 flights to none at all, however, I sure
105 ouboy79 : The FL network is sub-optimal because the network is being pulled apart. Of course it isn't as efficient as it once was. That isn't a shocker here. I
106 southwest737500 : So if WN is committed to ATL. How many flights are we talking about when it's all said and done. 160 flights. Something like a HOU operation
107 WWTRAVELER99 : I see ATL with 175-185 flights a day. The HOU operation will see about 190-200 a day by 2015. As far as what will be announced on Feb 4th, I dont see
108 enilria : I don't believe it. They said that before and keep reducing it. From what I know and some conjecture, a big pull down of ATL will fund the DAL 2014 b
109 usflyguy : Just like you knew, from your sources, that there was no way the code-share was going to launch in the first quarter of '13, if ever? So basically, y
110 Post contains images airliner371 : So nothing... You have been wrong too many times to have respect on WN posts anymore. I'm gonna quote usflyguy because he is exactly right, "So basic
111 FlyPNS1 : Except that the combined WN+FL has barely shrunk from where FL was two years ago. There's not going to be a big DAL build-up. WN doesn't have the gat
112 Cubsrule : I don't see that much room for a huge buildup at DAL. There will be flights added, but I don't think we are talking about a net gain of 100 flights o
113 ouboy79 : What PNS said. From what I've heard, the flight totals are still on target for what was initially expected. So perhaps your sources weren't very good
114 Flytravel : My guess would be 130-140. BWI, MDW and MCO having the most, and keeping 10 daily departures each. HOU and FLL having 8 daily departures. BNA linked w
115 southwest737500 : I no I'm going to get blown up for saying this but I really think it would nice to have CLT-ATL. I now it won't happen but it would be cool What abou
116 airliner371 : They just said it would stay within 10 flights of what it is now so because of that I have to disagree. They will be decreasing ATL-LGA from 8 to 6 d
117 Post contains images ouboy79 : Nah, won't knock you for the CLT-ATL thought. Now about using the proper "know" versus "no", we might have something. hehe OKC maybe. TUL probably no
118 zippyjet : This may very well change. At DAL there is the beginning of an expansion project adding more gates and a state of the art terminal for WN. Currently
119 Post contains links airliner371 : Beginning in October of 2014, DAL will be limited to 20 gates max, Southwest has full control over 16 of those. This is all part of the wright amendm
120 bobloblaw : I doubt there will be 6 daily ATL-BNA flights in fact I doubt there will be any. OAK and ISP won't have ATL service. I think overall you have too man
121 zippyjet : I'm totally confused. Then why the expansion and new construction? Talk about confusing law. Always have been stumped by the Wright ammendmant. If yo
122 iowaman : I doubt it will even be a net gain of 50 flights with the limited amount of gates as others have said. However, I expect to see slight to moderate fr
123 ouboy79 : The terminal needs to be modernized. Like you pointed out it is old, but there are still going to be restrictions on how large it can get. There will
124 Cubsrule : I agree with that. That said, there is going to be an increased need for aircraft beyond what would be expected with the modest gain in flights, as t
125 southwest737500 : I don't want to push it but I would love to see a CLT-LAS flight on WN. US is 651 RT!!! WN is a savior for CLT passengers. I could see this route be
126 usflyguy : Is the FL schedule usually loaded on Saturday or Sunday before the WN schedule? I think this one will give quite a bit of insight in to the upcoming c
127 sdoyon : I can never see the changes in the FL schedule prior the WN announcement. Do you just go through the booking engine for particular city pairs? I too
128 usflyguy : Look in the booking engine... at the city pairs that are FL only to see if they have reduced frequencies or no service at all.
129 knope2001 : The norm has been that FL will roll out their new scheudle on Friday night, and the new WN schedule comes out on Monday morning. Two things to know a
130 ScottB : Airport costs at DAL have historically been quite a bit lower than airport costs at DFW because the terminals were largely built and paid-for decades
131 Flytravel : If B6 adds service on it which is likely, WN will reduce it's service over time. I'd say given that WN doesn't do that elsewhere (flying 5x daily on
132 usflyguy : Then why did WN start BOS service several years ago after B6 was already established there if they don't want to compete with them?
133 Post contains links AirDance : GRR has alerted media to a 'major air service announcement' next week on Monday, Feb. 4th. This could possibly be a Southwest Airlines announcement co
134 airliner371 : Let the guessing begin! I think BWI, MCO & DEN.
135 southwest737500 : Let me guess! BWI,MDW,DEN,PHX
136 southwest737500 : Just a quick question. If WN was going to add a flight out west from CLT which would make the most sense CLT-LAS/PHX/DEN
137 iowaman : Good find. I'd say it's about a 98% chance it will be WN. BWI and MCO will be a given in my opinion. I will be very surprised if TPA is also not kept
138 knope2001 : A few preliminary things I'm noticing so far: The AirTran site in English won't fullyl load -- the Spanish one does. Howerver I had a window open over
139 airliner371 : I would think DEN. I don't know what to think about MDW... It is a very short flight but a long drive.
140 MSYtristar : The WN route map is showing MSY-SFO nonstop. I wonder if that's just listed for the handful of Super Bowl flights?
141 sdoyon : Flights from 8/12/2013 on FL: PNS has three flights to ATL (6a, 11a, and 6p) RIC has four flights to ATL (7:45a, 12:22p, 2:38p, and 8:03p) and one fli
142 ERJ170 : RDU (checking Aug 23, 2013) shows -1 FLL, +1 ATL, +1 BWI, +1 MDW are the changes I see... Just for the airtran side...
143 Post contains images wnflyguy : Looking at Airtran.com.. I see for MEM..2 MDW, 4 ATL, 1 BWI and 1 MCO. Wnfg
144 knope2001 : Very interesting...RDU-MDW and RDU-BWI are both long-time Southwest markets. It appears that the 1x/day RDU-MDW-RDU and RDU-BWI-RDU runs from the new
145 Post contains images wnflyguy : Airtran.com seems to be having some I T issues. Pulling up booking prices are showing economy fares higher than business class. Also tried booking a f
146 ouboy79 : It's called the schedule is still being loaded and worked on, and people shouldn't be bothering with trying to book it yet. This happens every time w
147 Post contains images wnflyguy : Personally I don't understand why Both Schedules don't release on the same day. There both being done by the same department right? I don't really th
148 Post contains images ouboy79 : I'm not sure if WN is in full control of the schedule or if there is still a set team handling FL specifically. Also two different reservations syste
149 dadoftyler : Hi folks. Bill from WN Network Planning here. Yes, both WN and FL schedules are now done here in Dallas (or, as one my favorite senior pilots calls i
150 Post contains images wnflyguy : Thanks for that INFO Bill.. And Yes seeing Stuff in a schudule before the offical date is like shaking presants on xmas eve. SFSFSFSFSFSFSFSFSFSFSFSF
151 Post contains links mke717spotter : Looks like WN is going to be debuting a new marketing/advertising campaign around MKE starting tomorrow, might we see some new service added as well?
152 dbo861 : Kind of an unrelated question, but at what rate are they converting FL 737s to Southwest? How many have been converted so far?
153 alggag : Southwest route map page shows GRR with service to DEN, BWI, STL, and MCO. MEM, RIC, and PNS are still displaying as all FL stations.
154 sdoyon : It looks like FNT is now connected to LAS as well (could be seasonal)
155 ultrapig : I don't understand the STL-GRR route except if its that I don't understand how WN operates these days. During the summer I can see lots of St. Louisan
156 Cubsrule : STL-GRR is actually a larger local market than CHI-GRR despite no nonstop service and pretty high fares (~50 cents/mile average). If WN could grow th
157 bobloblaw : STL gets you connections to the Midwest and southcentral that neither BWI nor DEN can deliver. There may also be some local market, unlike MDW which
158 enilria : Even if you don't think they will add many flights at DAL (I disagree), it takes a lot more planes to fly DAL-BOS than DAL-MAF. This is going to requ
159 bobloblaw : It looks like ATL picks up FLL and RSW in the schedule load.
160 bobloblaw : My mistake. Those are just the codeshare flights.
161 usflyguy : It's GRR added and then seasonal cuts.
162 southwest737500 : Anything new for CLT?
163 kkephart13 : No.
164 Post contains images wnflyguy : While I'm happy that another FL is city added to the WN network. I'm taken back by the all the cuts on the ever shifting and" I fee"l the unreliable W
165 Flytravel : I'm not surprised of the loss of PHL-Florida, esp. when it transitioned from WN to FL and now. The routes weren't business serving or important in the
166 STT757 : I live closer to EWR but have been flying PHL-Florida on US because they're cheap and I get Mileage plus miles. Add in NK at ACY, which is exceedingl
167 usflyguy : The same seasonal reductions that are done EVERY year for September-November.
168 OzarkD9S : Looks like more cuts than additions. Glad to see WN being pro-active in cutting marginal flying.
169 apodino : I read in another thread that WN will be starting MEM service to MDW, BWI, and MCO on FL metal in August. FL had existing ATL service, but I suspect t
170 QANTAS747-438 : Yes, 6 flts per day to BWI 2x, MDW 2x, MCO, and HOU.
171 sdoyon : I think he meant in addition to that. That was announced in the last schedule extension.
172 Flytravel : JAN-HOU is short-haul and it might be the route that can keep the station viable, like CRP-HOU.
173 southwest737500 : Duh way to state the obvious. I asked because FNT got a new route an I had to bring it up[Edited 2013-02-04 11:21:02]
174 ouboy79 : I can't see WN leaving JAN completely at this point, but should be sustainable as a small station with HOU and MDW providing the bulk of service. I a
175 iowaman : What is concerning to me is JAN-MDW. It's one of the lowest load-factors I've seen on WN recently: JAN-HOU 68% JAN-MCO 67% JAN-MDW 50% Interesting, n
176 southwest737500 : I understand I was just curious
177 DariusBieber : I'm guessing WN renewed their lease at DSM? I overheard WN attendants on a DSM-MDW flight that WN originally had only leased their operations at DSM u
178 alggag : re: JAN Any thoughts on seeing JAN-ATL down the road when ATL is more up to speed? Nothing massive, just like 2x. Or would that just be out of the fry
179 jporterfi : I'm surprised by the lack of changes (e.g. shifting FL routes to WN routes) in ATL. Does anyone think WN will add n/s service to new cities out of ATL
180 SouthernDC9 : Wow, that can't be good... UA just introduced JAN-ORD, not sure if that will make situation worse or have any impact It being JAN service... purely a
181 Cubsrule : I don't think it would. It's more or less the same distance to BNA as to JAN, and BNA has so much more service. LIT is the closest legacy WN airport
182 dbo861 : I'm guessing this hasn't been decided/finalized yet. If they already decided not to renew the lease, they wouldn't be offering DSM-MDW on these new s
183 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: MLive Southwest Announces Las Vegas Flight From Bishop International Airport http://www.mlive.com/business/mid-mi...as_vegas.html#incart_ri
184 DariusBieber : I was checking their flights past June 30th, and they are available for booking.
185 bobloblaw : Traditionally service from AL and MS has done poorly to ORD. There is little traffic from those two states to the Midwest. Most traffic goes west thr
186 planespotting : I think we will just need to be patient with WN's presence in DSM. I believe they are happy with its current performance and are still trying to figu
187 DariusBieber : On every flight I've taken from DSM to MDW and vice versa it has been completely full. Albeit, I went during the high traffic days (Thanksgiving, Chr
188 sdoyon : Looks like DEN-BUR comes back at 2x. Slightly confused, wasn't this permanently ended with the previous schedule extension? From 9/23/13: BUR - DEN: 1
189 SouthernDC9 : I know, that's so weird... where could one find the passengers-per-day figures for, say, JAN-ORD? (My JAN-CLT flight was late Sunday and I so very mu
190 ATLgaUSA : I'm not sure that is true. Chicago is one of Birmingham's largest local markets with 336 passengers per way each day. United runs three regional jets
191 Post contains links and images point2point : Click in here http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report and use Table 6 for all domestic city-pairs for metro areas,
192 Cubsrule : (Writing this on a 2/3 full MCO-JAN flight -- WN wifi is much faster when the flight isn't full) One other concern in JAN has got to be the yields. O
193 bobloblaw : Compare that to cities with the MSA the size of BHM east or west of ORD like OMA.
194 Post contains images wnflyguy : BUR-DEN always had strong loads from my understanding. But every schedule now they optimize the optimized and if the computer says cut the market they
195 SANFan : I've got a question about something I've seen in the .pdf flight Schedules for quite some time now; I wonder how widespread this is and what the reaso
196 Post contains images iowaman : DSM will be a slow growth if any. It's a small market that is sensitive to any type of capacity additions. It doesn't always work out WN can offer on
197 usflyguy : It's different teams of people, so no.
198 SANFan : Thanks for your input. I guess what I'm wondering is WHY does WN bother listing such out of the way connections on their schedules (.pdf ones anyway)
199 knope2001 : I have three ideas.... (a) In markets with multiple nonstops, they may publish connections because sometimes availability will lead people to book a
200 airliner371 : Most people I know don't look at a .pdf, they just look up flights in the booking sections. And when you or someone doesn't understand it, it means t
201 SANFan : And thanks for those ideas too knope'. Some of what you say helps possibly explain some of my questions. The rest will continue to keep me wondering
202 planespotting : I do think DSM will eventually receive extra daily frequency, most likely to PHX and/or STL. It just might take another 6-36 months before they feel
203 bobloblaw : STL gives DSM nothing they dont get from MDW. Two hubs east of DSM makes no sense. I think DSM will get DEN, 2 daily flights. Maybe an MCO in the win
204 alggag : Completely agree, 2x MDW and 2x DEN will probably be about it for daily services.
205 MSYtristar : One positive is that the MKE-MSY nonstop remains. This is looking more and more like WN will be keeping it year round. If it can last through the Sept
206 dbo861 : I think STL would be an option for Southwest if they decide 2 MDW flights aren't enough. STL does have some things that MDW isn't able to provide. It
207 planespotting : Except STL is a viable alternative/routing through to the SE/East Coast if MDW is too busy for WN to add additional routes, which it is getting close
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