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WN/FL February 4, 2013 Schedule Update Predictions  
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 545 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 19399 times:

Well it's almost time for WN/FL to release the next schedule extensions.
Will they convert more cites over to WN?
Will FL get new international flying feeding the new WN code share network?
Predictions?
My predictions or what I would like to see are:
DCA flights being reshuffled with MKE and ATL seeing service scaled back making use of slots for MDW flts.
RIC,PNS,GRR,DAY now with a code share in place seeing a reshuffling of FL flying to connect these cites with WN hubs like MDW,DEN,STL and HOU.
New WN ATL market like ATL-ISP,ATL-MHT,ATL-SNA(one can dream).
New weekend only non stop flying to SJU flying to feed holiday ship passengers.
FINALLY A CODE SHARE               
wnfg 


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
207 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3476 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 19374 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
FINALLY A CODE SHARE

That is really all that matters at this point. Everything else is just icing on the cake


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 19375 times:

Of course there's a whole list of routes that WN should fly, but you touched on one of them: MHT-ATL. DL has this to themselves, and they do nothing with it. A single ill-timed RJ for a 952-mile run right now. Sure, one or 2 MD-88s in peak season, but business travelers don't even HAVE a 'peak season.'

So, I would love to see WN go 2x daily MHT-ATL...even if they sacrificed one or two existing BWI runs to do it.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 19257 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):

An awful lot there. I doubt we ever see ATL-MHT. PNS-HOU is a no brainer at some point.


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3127 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 19220 times:
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Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):

We can dream about WN ATL-ISP, but I doubt it. Maybe further down the line though.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 19064 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):

Agreed!!
When it comes to this merger It's made me scratch my head so much it hurts.
When you look at the history of WN growth or use the Morris Air merger as example how they would handle this merger.
It almost seems like they took the OLD play book and threw it out the door.
Which may have been a good plan or may not have been a good plan only time will tell.
I hope for the future of every WN employee 2013-2014 brings out a lot of new ROIC finally with this merger.
I still think buying FL was 110% better than F9 would have ever been.
I understand and get the long term goals of shipping off the 717. But being a kid from LGB and of both parents that made the MD95. I was really hoping She would wear WN paint.
sorry for the side track back to predictions..
I hope this next schedule update comes with a Code share and brings things together finally.
This schedule should see something like 3 or 6 FL717 lines be replaced with WN metal.
I'm thinking most of the first Lines will be BWI, MKE and MCO related.
But if the code share plays out then anything is possible.
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 19065 times:

So WN will at some point launch GRR-DEN, prompting F9 to pull out of the route. F9 might as well end service the day WN starts it, rather than the compete for a short while, similar to CAK and DAY from DEN. F9 would just plan a new TTN route.

I could see WN having GRR-BWI, MCO, DEN, HOU and TPA (seasonal).

[Edited 2013-01-13 09:10:54]

User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 19057 times:

ATL-SAN
HOU-SJU
MSY-CUN
MSY-MBJ
OAK-SJD



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 18709 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
New WN ATL market like ATL-ISP,ATL-MHT,ATL-SNA(one can dream).

I doubt that ATL-SNA will be started. WN already offers single-plane service routed ATL-PHX-SNA, and I question if they have enough demand to fill a daily n/s on the route. That last point is also valid for ATL-ISP and ATL-MHT, though I know nothing about demand on those routes, so I'd be happy for someone to correct me.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 7):
ATL-SAN

FL used to fly this route several years ago. With the codeshare coming online, I think there is a decent chance that WN will bring this back (using its own metal) because the ATL "focus city" provides plenty of connecting traffic.

Also, how likely is it that STL will be converted to WN-only service? I know that STL is a major operation for WN, and with only 2 destinations served by FL from it, I would think it would be a good candidate for conversion in the near future.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 18707 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 6):
I could see WN having GRR-BWI, MCO, DEN, HOU and TPA (seasonal).

GRR is tough because it is so close to MDW and WN has shown that they dont want to fly markets with lots of thru or connect traffic, (Ie they dropped IND from MDW) there has to be a local market. That said, without STL or MDW, there is no way to get GRR pax around the midwest or midsouth ( I suppose you could go GRR-BWI-BNA/MSY/BHM etc).

GRR-BWI/MCO are obvious. DEN is likely, but not 100%. I think HOU is too thin (UA flies only one RJ to IAH). STL? If there is local traffic, Id say possibly.

Does WN want to be able to offer their entire network to pax when they open a new market? There are few markets where the answer to that is No, for instance DSM (can be done but circuitous) ditto FNT. I dont know WN's strategy WRT cities like DSM and GRR and FNT.


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 18669 times:

I'd love to see DCA fully converted, but that's probably not going to happen. Also, sad to say, I highly doubt 4x MKE-DCA is going to be sticking around for much longer--is this now a WN monopoly route?

MHT-ATL would have been good on FL, but I fear that it'll never happen on WN. Why connect in ATL when BWI is closer and has (or probably would have) far more daily options?

I'm excited to see more SJU. I have a feeling WN, NK, and B6 are definitely going to pick up where AA has cut.


User currently onlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 18578 times:

Just gotta throw my    in here, eh?

I would think that converting the stations that have the least amount of current FL flights might make the most sense to convert in this next announcement. From info that I have (and it could be a bit dated, and I certainly don't claim this as exactly accurate at present, but still will get my idea across...) is that there are a number of stations with only routes to ATL on FL, and that these could get priority in this transition. So from my knowledge these stations include LAX, PHX, ICT, MCI, STL, MSY, PNS, JAX, MEM and RDU. These are stations that could simply change their FL metal to WM metal and be done in this transition to all WN flights. A few more stations have FL flights to both ATL and MCO, such as BUF, DTW, and RIC. They could go next.

MCO is a station that seems to be getting not so much attention here as ATL is. I do believe that they were the second largest station for FL...... and yet ATL is grabbing almost all of the spotlight. There's about 20 or so destination from there that will need attending to as well.......

Since I always like DEN expansion, there is a void here to the upper New York State area here. BUF and ALB could probably support enough O&D traffic year round to support nonstop flights here year around. ROC is strong here in the summer months. So will WN get a jump here on UA and F9?

Again, as always...... just my   ......

 


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5432 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 18438 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Well it's almost time for WN/FL to release the next schedule extensions.

Can you please include the effective dates for this next extension? It's this fall, I think...

bb


User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 18364 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
ATL-ISP

That definitely will not happen before LGA-ATL on WN metal....


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 18270 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
GRR is tough because it is so close to MDW and WN has shown that they dont want to fly markets with lots of thru or connect traffic, (Ie they dropped IND from MDW) there has to be a local market. That said, without STL or MDW, there is no way to get GRR pax around the midwest or midsouth ( I suppose you could go GRR-BWI-BNA/MSY/BHM etc).

GRR-BWI/MCO are obvious. DEN is likely, but not 100%. I think HOU is too thin (UA flies only one RJ to IAH). STL? If there is local traffic, Id say possibly.

When it dropped IND-MDW, gone was IND-MDW-MSP. Instead it offers IND-DEN-MSP which is awkward (974 miles, and then 679 miles) when a connection stop at MDW is 161 and 349 miles, and a natural nonstop is 502 miles. So if awkward is fine for a couple of routes from IND, it'd be done for smaller stations like GRR.

WN decided it wasn't worthwhile to have optimal connections to everywhere, but focus on specific routes and accessibility. As for GRR, HOU would help for midsouth coverage a bit, but it might be thin, but a 1x daily could be tested, maybe once WN can sell international flights from HOU. Along with it being a major market, HOU will be a gateway for that vacation stuff WN wants to sell.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 8):
FL used to fly this route several years ago. With the codeshare coming online, I think there is a decent chance that WN will bring this back (using its own metal) because the ATL "focus city" provides plenty of connecting traffic.

It also helps that WN is the leading carrier at SAN, and San Diego is a destinational place, thus the ability to stimulate traffic. I think it's actually one of the lower hanging fruits and surprised WN didn't launch it, but instead went for ATL-ORF.


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 18174 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):

With the 717 lines being replaced 3 at a time.
I think from here until 2015 you will see a lot of little schedule releases with 1 or 3 month extensions.
I could have this wrong but I think this is a extinction for SEP only.
This time around there really is no Rumor mill from inside WN.
I'm for once impressed no one's talking about anything when it comes to new flying.
Example AirTran MDW service to Punta Cana and Montego Bay never got leaked.
Which is rare for WN BUT good it keeps everything a surprise.
With Sept being a slow season I could see WN reshuffle some flying to ADD MEM,PNS,RIC and GRR into the WN network.
My predictions going off what they did with the size of the other FL conversions last round are.
MEM 2 HOU,2 MDW,1 BWI, 1 MCO.
PNS 2 HOU,2 STL ,1 BWI.
RIC 2 MDW,1 HOU,1 TPA,1 MCO.
GRR 2 BWI,2 STL,1 DEN.
wnfg


           



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 18110 times:

Code-share is coming final kinks are being worked out

User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 18072 times:

The SWA schedule extension is through Sept 27 on Feb 4.

----

If testing went as planned in December (IDK) then this is the code share schedule:

soft rollout, January,
Phase 1 more full rollout in February,
Full rollout in March.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 15):
I think from here until 2015 you will see a lot of little schedule releases with 1 or 3 month extensions.

I agree, more extensions but with less length to them would make sense with 3 717s leaving each month.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 15):
My predictions going off what they did with the size of the other FL conversions last round are.

I think those are solid guesses, I have a feeling that RIC-ATL will be kept though, whether its at WN or FL is to be seen.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 10):
I'd love to see DCA fully converted

For DCA, when all is said and done, I could see
5 ATL (FL)
5 MDW (WN)
1 MKE (WN or FL)
1 RSW, PBI or FLL depending on which they want to operate with that slot (FL)
2 STL (WN)
1 AUS (WN)
and 1 HOU if they get it (WN)

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
ATL-ISP,ATL-MHT,ATL-SNA

I think these are fair additions, I don't think we will see them all in one addition though. I do also expect to see SAN at some point.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinenomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 18033 times:

MEM: BWI, HOU, MDW
RIC: HOU, MDW
PNS: BWI, HOU, MDW
Wild card: GEG or BOI to MDW (why not?)


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 17926 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 11):
Since I always like DEN expansion, there is a void here to the upper New York State area here. BUF and ALB could probably support enough O&D traffic year round to support nonstop flights here year around

I would love to see DEN-BUF/ALB, although I doubt it, especially in the case of ALB. However, BUF already has PHX and LAS service, and I believe they are the only medium sized city in the Northeast still with PHX service, as WN dropped MHT-PHX and PVD-PHX.

MHT has both DEN and LAS service, as does BDL. ALB only has LAS, and PVD only has DEN. I'm worried that if WN were to launch ALB-DEN, we might see LAS get cut back.

BUF-DEN has about 118 PDEW, while ALB-DEN has around 81 PDEW. ROC-DEN has 69 PDEW.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 17900 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 17):
For DCA, when all is said and done, I could see
5 ATL (FL)
5 MDW (WN)
1 MKE (WN or FL)
DCA will be interesting to watch. It might not want to cut MKE too much, as it's an exclusive route and necessary for preserving it's position at MKE. And adding DCA-MDW at 5x will make IAD-MDW have to shrink drastically. Maybe something like 5 ATL, 3 MDW, 3 MKE from DCA, and the other routes, and 3 MDW, 2 BNA, 2 DEN from IAD.

[Edited 2013-01-13 18:34:08]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 17867 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 20):
Maybe something like 5 ATL, 3 MDW, 3 MKE from DCA, and the other routes, and 3 MDW, 2 BNA, 2 DEN from IAD.

IAD is a niche station. Why does it need BNA service?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 17817 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
IAD is a niche station. Why does it need BNA service?

I don't think it's niche. Why does it need DEN?


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 17801 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 22):
I don't think it's niche. Why does it need DEN?

DEN and MDW offer connections. They do not want to serve IAD large so they offer 2 cities with many connections.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 17762 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 22):
I don't think it's niche. Why does it need DEN?

How is it anything but niche? Is there any other station like it?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 17967 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
How is it anything but niche? Is there any other station like it?

It's not niche like a leisure destination or some remote market. Small doesn't mean niche. WN at CLE is small too, and it has BNA service of all things.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 23):
DEN and MDW offer connections. They do not want to serve IAD large so they offer 2 cities with many connections.
BNA offers connections to all the other major east coast airports WN services except DCA, so IAD would be the closest alternative.

[Edited 2013-01-13 19:33:28]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 17961 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 25):
It's not niche like a leisure destination or some remote market.

It's very much a "remote market" in the WN world because of its proximity to BWI. Thus, it supports only very limited service.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 25):
WN at CLE is small too, and it has BNA service of all things.

CLE has more than twice as many flights as IAD.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 18147 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 25):
WN at CLE is small too, and it has BNA service of all things.

Well its not nearly as small and they have a different purpose in the WN network.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 25):
BNA offers connections to all the other major east coast airports WN services except DCA, so IAD would be the closest alternative.

Why serve BNA when most if not all of those cities can be served from MDW. They don't want a big presence at IAD.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently onlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week ago) and read 18098 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
BUF-DEN has about 118 PDEW, while ALB-DEN has around 81 PDEW. ROC-DEN has 69 PDEW.

I think that maybe these are slow season numbers..... and those numbers do just about double in the summer months...... which at that point is enough to fill the F9 planes......

 


User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1963 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 18099 times:

I will estimate that WN will announce new Caribbean routes on WN metal. Now that they're certified to fly to places like SJU, I can see them trying to do BWI-SJU or other Class II routes which will eventually lead to ETOPS flying.

Also, maybe WN schedules to MEM and PNS.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 18028 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 27):
Why serve BNA when most if not all of those cities can be served from MDW.
WN is strong at BNA and has been linking BNA to most major business markets, including service to both NY airports (LGA and EWR) from BNA. This is why I mentioned it possible. Connections you brought up, but it'd have connections via BNA, better to Texas and south than MDW.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 27):
They don't want a big presence at IAD.

Yup, and I didn't indicate anything like a big presence at IAD. No thanks for making it seem like I was discussing that.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
It's very much a "remote market" in the WN world because of its proximity to BWI. Thus, it supports only very limited service.
DCA has closer proximity to BWI but DCA is niche because of slot dependency. Yes, IAD supports limited service currently but it's ancillary to DCA more than BWI now with WN/FL in DCA. IAD and DCA are closer together in Washington MSA than BWI (in Baltimore-Towson MSA) to any of the two.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
CLE has more than twice as many flights as IAD.

This Tuesday, CLE has 6x MDW, 3x BWI and 3x BNA. IAD has 5x MDW and 2x DEN. I count 12 departures vs. 7 departures. Am I missing some besides some seasonal flying that isn't available now? It still seems in the small category.

[Edited 2013-01-13 20:44:55]

User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 17992 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 30):
better to Texas and south than MDW.

If the were to add a city south from IAD it would most likely be HOU anyway.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 30):
It still seems in the small category.

They are in different categories.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 30):
Yup, and I didn't indicate anything like a big presence at IAD.

They have had 7 flights for sometime now, there is no indication of that changing, they want BWI and DCA with IAD just there to support the Washington area passengers.

[Edited 2013-01-13 20:43:37]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 17957 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 31):
If the were to add a city south from IAD it would most likely be HOU anyway.

Maybe. But, United would still command a premium with the business pax flying into DCA. WN dropped HOU-PHL not BNA-PHL, but there were 3 carriers on HOU-PHL. It didn't launch BOS-HOU but it launched BOS-BNA. BNA is shorter distance than HOU from the east coast. DC is closer to HOU than BOS or PHL so it's maybe and WN could strengthen it's #2 place to the United dominance between DC and Houston.

MCO service restored is also a maybe, as one Florida flight, with connections to places like Key West and other limited destinations.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 31):
They have had 7 flights for sometime now, there is no indication of that changing,

My original post didn't indicate increase of service but possible re-allocating of service at IAD if DCA changes with MDW service.

[Edited 2013-01-13 21:04:57]

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5432 posts, RR: 12
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 17930 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 17):
The SWA schedule extension is through Sept 27 on Feb 4.

Thank you for what I think is an important piece of information to the topic being discussed here.

bb


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 17920 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 28):
I think that maybe these are slow season numbers..... and those numbers do just about double in the summer months...... which at that point is enough to fill the F9 planes......

Maybe, but F9 serves neither ALB or BUF.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently onlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 17874 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 34):
Maybe, but F9 serves neither ALB or BUF.

Oooops.... meant to write WN there since this is the subject of the thread..... but at any rate, having no service currently at any airport doesn't stop F9 from entering......eh?

 


User currently offlinedolphinflyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 201 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 17147 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
I'm worried that if WN were to launch ALB-DEN, we might see LAS get cut back.

While I agree that (for ALB's sake) I'd hate to see ALB-LAS n/s service go away, I would argue that ALB-DEN would offer more bang for the buck, i.e. higher yields, more connections to destinations throughout the west, more of a business rather than leisure market, etc. Having said that, I hope that WN adds ALB-DEN rather than replacing ALB-LAS with ALB-DEN.

Also important to note that the O&D for DEN-PVD and DEN-MHT was lower than either DEN-BUF or DEN-ALB, but in those cases, WN essentially replaced nonstop service to PHX with DEN, i.e. gone were PVD-PHX and MHT-PHX in favor of PVD-DEN and MHT-DEN.

ALB-DEN and BUF-DEN on WN are definitely warranted.

[Edited 2013-01-14 06:21:02]

User currently onlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3042 posts, RR: 28
Reply 37, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16936 times:

Well here are my predictions for MDW only.  

MDW-DCA 3X or 4x daily to complement the IAD services. Only UA and AA fly between DCA and Chicago.
MDW-SJU
MDW-MEM 2X


User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16825 times:

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 37):
Only UA and AA fly between DCA and Chicago

Aren't they both hourly or pretty close to hourly?



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 39, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16821 times:

Here is my prediction for RDU...

??????

I honestly have no earthly clue.. would love some MSY and MCI but Lawd knows I don't know what is being thought.. if it is even being thought about.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 40, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16795 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Will they convert more cites over to WN?

YES. I think you will see more stations like PNS lose ATL service.

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
FINALLY A CODE SHARE
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):
That is really all that matters at this point. Everything else is just icing on the cake

I can say with fair certainty that scheduling still does not trust the code share timing, so I would not expect to see any ATL routes cut from FL to WN. That coupled with my prior comment means more shrinking in ATL.

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Will FL get new international flying feeding the new WN code share network?

Probably, but I think we have seen that they really don't announce those in the schedule roll out partially because of the time to ask for govt approval.

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
DCA flights being reshuffled with MKE and ATL seeing service scaled back making use of slots for MDW flts.

I think that is inevitable. It is possible they have not done it because they want to cry to somebody about how they can't fly to MDW and hope to get slots for free.

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
New WN ATL market like ATL-ISP,ATL-MHT,ATL-SNA(one can dream).

Not going to happen. I doubt you'll see any new ATL. I think you will see FL continue to be weened down to ATL and a growing number of point to point Florida routes. This is also the Fall schedule change so you are going to see a lot of seasonal pull-downs. I bet there will be a ton of them.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 5):
I still think buying FL was 110% better than F9 would have ever been.

I disagree in most respects.
1) FINANCIAL: I think eliminating F9 would have greatly benefited the profitability of WN because a competitor would be eliminated in a very overcapacity market. One can argue that the merger with FL has reduced WN profitability.
2) SYSTEMS (code share): F9 is on Sabre. Should have been easier, but not E-Z.
3) LABOR: I think that while F9 would have taken a good number of F9 employees, it would not be merger of equals (almost) like the FL deal so my guess is that would make it easier as F9 unions would have very little to bargain with.
4) FLEET: About the same. Airbus parked. 717s parked. F9's fleet was much smaller, so easier.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 6):
So WN will at some point launch GRR-DEN, prompting F9 to pull out of the route.

UA just went back to 2x. You can pick any route and say "I can imagine F9 pulling that route".

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
GRR is tough because it is so close to MDW and WN has shown that they dont want to fly markets

Same with FNT essentially. I get the feeling that for political reasons they couldn't close some of these clearly borderline stations like DSM, GRR, FNT, etc.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 10):
I'd love to see DCA fully converted, but that's probably not going to happen.

Nope. DCA-ATL surely continues and they won't convert it until the code share is fully working.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 17):
The SWA schedule extension is through Sept 27 on Feb 4.

Yes, lots of hacking the Florida schedule.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 17):
soft rollout, January,

Really soft. It's the 14th and not a peep. My guess is this thing continues to go the way it has been going. Delays and disasters.

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 18):

MEM: BWI, HOU, MDW
RIC: HOU, MDW
PNS: BWI, HOU, MDW
Wild card: GEG or BOI to MDW (why not?)

MEM would seem to make sense, BUT I get the impression that WN is playing really nice with DL right now. Might be 717 related. Not sure. I think MEM is going to be put off.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 29):
I will estimate that WN will announce new Caribbean routes on WN metal.

Not on WN metal. I don't think the WN systems can handle that. Gonna be a while.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16774 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 40):
YES. I think you will see more stations like PNS lose ATL service.

Unfortunately yes. Clark Howard who was so excited about WN, will end up disappointed in what WN does to ATL in the end.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 42, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16687 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 40):
YES. I think you will see more stations like PNS lose ATL service.

Any market that doesn't have substantial high yield O&D will get cut. That is a no brainer.

Quoting enilria (Reply 40):
I disagree in most respects.
1) FINANCIAL: I think eliminating F9 would have greatly benefited the profitability of WN because a competitor would be eliminated in a very overcapacity market. One can argue that the merger with FL has reduced WN profitability.

You could argue the same with F9 pulling profitability down. In fact you could interchange FL and F9 for your entire argument. FL was holding down the eastern US pretty well, only one direction to grow. West.

Quoting enilria (Reply 40):
2) SYSTEMS (code share): F9 is on Sabre. Should have been easier, but not E-Z.

Why? The existing WN res system has been altered significantly since the TZ code-share (who was on Sabre). Regardless its done and this will be a non-issue soon.

Quoting enilria (Reply 40):
3) LABOR: I think that while F9 would have taken a good number of F9 employees, it would not be merger of equals (almost) like the FL deal so my guess is that would make it easier as F9 unions would have very little to bargain with.

Eh, except for a few issues here and there, there haven't been anywhere near the bumps like UA/CO or US/HP.

Quoting enilria (Reply 40):
4) FLEET: About the same. Airbus parked. 717s parked. F9's fleet was much smaller, so easier.

Non-issue now since the 717 fleet has a home and WN is looking at a revenue neutral solution.

Quoting enilria (Reply 40):
Really soft. It's the 14th and not a peep. My guess is this thing continues to go the way it has been going. Delays and disasters.

I would think common sense would take over here. Once they get the changes made they obviously need to train everyone on how to handle it. It takes time. Kelly stated it would be Q1 2013 for the roll out. I'm not really seeing all these disasters you keep spouting. Perhaps it would be best if you stick to filling the galleys and making food and leave the airline operations part to those that actually know what they are doing.


User currently onlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3042 posts, RR: 28
Reply 43, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16628 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 38):
Aren't they both hourly or pretty close to hourly?

UA has hourly service, AA has about 8x daily between DCA-ORD.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 44, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16622 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Here's a master list for reference I have kept up in previous schedule releases. Everything in the route list has been announced. Please let me know if this needs any corrections:

FL only cities:

Domestic:
MEM
GRR
PNS
RIC

International:
AUA
BDA
NAS
CUN
MEX
SJD
MBJ
PUJ

New upcoming routes (WN operated unless noted):

MCI-MSP (starts February 14)
EYW-MSY (March 4)
EWR-AUS (March 9)
EWR-MSY (March 9)
EWR-BNA (March 9)
BKG-MDW (starts March 9, FL ends March 8)
BKG-DAL (starts March 9)
BKG-HOU (starts March 9, FL ends March 8)
BKG-MCO (Saturday only, starts March 9, FL ends March 8)
LGA-MKE (transferring from FL in March)
CMH-TPA (transferring from FL in March)
DEN-SJD (FL, March 10)
CLT-BWI, MDW, HOU, MCO (starts April 14, all FL routes from CLT end April 13)
ROC-BWI, MDW, MCO, TPA (starts April 14, all FL routes from ROC end April 13)
FNT-BWI, MCO, TPA (starts April 14, all FL routes from FNT end April 13)
TPA-SJU (starts April 14)
MCO-SJU (starts April 14)
PWM-BWI (starts April 14, FL ends April 13)
BOS-MCI (starts April 14)
HOU-PIT (starts April 14)
BWI-PUJ ( starts April 14 on FL equipment, pending government approval)
MDW-MBJ (starts April 14 on FL equipment, pending government approval)
MDW-PUJ (starts May 19 on FL equipment, pending government approval)
BWI-SJU (starts June 2, FL ends June 1)
LGA-HOU (starts June 2)
MDW-TUL (starts June 2)
ICT-DAL (starts June 2)
ICT-MDW (starts June 2)
ICT-LAS (starts June 2)

Additional frequencies to note effective June 2:

SNA-SJD (FL going from 1x daily to 2x daily)
BWI-BDA (FL going from 4x weekly in May to daily in June)
MCO-SJU (WN going from 3x to 4x daily)

Seasonal returns announced for Spring/Summer (all WN equipment):

Spring:
SEA-BWI
CLE-LAS
MCI-OAK
SAN-STL
STL-ECP
OKC-MCO (runs daily for about two months)

June starts:
SEA-ATL
SEA-BNA
SEA-HOU
SEA-MCI
AUS-PDX
LAS-MHT

Seasonal cuts announced for next Spring/Summer:

Spring:
RSW-BNA
RSW-BOS
RSW-ISP
MCO-DAY
MCO-IND
PBI-PIT
PBI-PVD
TPA-GRR (FL)
RSW-DTW (FL)
RSW-FNT (FL)
RSW-GRR (FL)
RSW-CAK (FL)

Summer:
RSW-BDL (June 2)
TPA-ORF (June 2)
RSW-PVD (June 2)

Routes to be cut permanently:

EWR-BWI (ends March 8)
BKG-ATL (FL ends March 8)
BKG-BWI (FL ends March 8)
BOI-PDX (ends April 13)
BUR-DEN (ends April 13)
HOU-PHL (ends April 13)
ATL-FNT (FL ends April 13)
ATL-CLT (FL ends April 13)
ATL-ROC (FL ends April 13)

June 2 cuts:
ABQ-TUS
OAK-RNO
LIT-STL
BHM-JAX
BHM-MSY
ATL-ICT (FL ends June 1)

New FL flights to supplement WN flights:

Spring:
MCO-STL
MCO-MCI
BUF-TPA
MDW-FLL
MCO-MSY (March 4)

FL only routes that will again fly in the Spring:
BUF-FLL
MCO-MSP (transitioned to WN on Nov. 4 then goes back to FL)
PHL-PBI
PHL-RSW


Shifting from WN to FL seasonally (June 2):
FLL-RDU
FLL-MKE

Seasonal FL supplements to WN flights:

Spring:
BOS-MKE
TPA-MDW
TPA-CMH
RDU-MCO (not sure if this is permanent)
RDU-TPA (not sure if this is permanent)
RDU-FLL (not sure if this is permanent)

Summer (June 2):
TPA-HOU
TPA-RDU

Shortest currently flown WN routes in miles:

AUS-HOU 148
BWI-ORF 159
DAL-OKC 181
CRP-HOU 187
AUS-DAL 189
HOU-SAT 192
FLL-TPA 197
Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 15):
My predictions going off what they did with the size of the other FL conversions last round are.
MEM 2 HOU,2 MDW,1 BWI, 1 MCO.
PNS 2 HOU,2 STL ,1 BWI.
RIC 2 MDW,1 HOU,1 TPA,1 MCO.
GRR 2 BWI,2 STL,1 DEN.
wnfg
Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 16):
Code-share is coming final kinks are being worked out

That would be huge.

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 18):
MEM: BWI, HOU, MDW
RIC: HOU, MDW
PNS: BWI, HOU, MDW
Wild card: GEG or BOI to MDW (why not?)

I'm guessing MEM and RIC may get an MCO and or TPA but who knows. I like your idea of GEG and BOI-MDW but unfortunately neither one has been getting any WN "luv" lately.

Quoting enilria (Reply 40):

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):New WN ATL market like ATL-ISP,ATL-MHT,ATL-SNA(one can dream).
Not going to happen. I doubt you'll see any new ATL.
ISP can't even maintain MDW service to I doubt we will ever see ATL-ISP either. ATL-MHT probably isn't worth bothering with. ATL-SNA I doubt as well.

Quoting dolphinflyer (Reply 36):
ALB-DEN and BUF-DEN on WN are definitely warranted.

Seems reasonable - and as you said LAS/PHX may be cut from ALB/BUF if DEN was added.

[Edited 2013-01-14 17:05:33]

[Edited 2013-01-15 10:47:54]


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 45, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16575 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 41):
Unfortunately yes. Clark Howard who was so excited about WN, will end up disappointed in what WN does to ATL in the end.

That freight train is already gaining a lot of speed.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 42):
Any market that doesn't have substantial high yield O&D will get cut. That is a no brainer.

So, pretty much everything is getting cut? Few have enough local O&D for 12 DL flights plus WN.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 42):
You could argue the same with F9 pulling profitability down. In fact you could interchange FL and F9 for your entire argument. FL was holding down the eastern US pretty well, only one direction to grow. West.

That makes no sense. FL and WN had hardly any head to head overlap. WN overlapped nearly every F9 route at that point. I'm surprised you don't know the networks better than that.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 42):
Quoting enilria (Reply 40):
2) SYSTEMS (code share): F9 is on Sabre. Should have been easier, but not E-Z.

Why? The existing WN res system has been altered significantly since the TZ code-share (who was on Sabre). Regardless its done and this will be a non-issue soon.

It's not only about the WN system. The reason they are going toward Amadeus is because neither system is very good with code share. JetBlue left Open Skies/New Skies because of the code share issues, remember?

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 42):
Kelly stated it would be Q1 2013 for the roll out.

And we are 14 days in and there is not an official date even set for it.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 42):
I'm not really seeing all these disasters you keep spouting.

Have you seen the loads on ORF-ATL or SDF-ATL or all the other routes that expected code share. Go look and do this 
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 42):
Perhaps it would be best if you stick to filling the galleys and making food

It's interesting that you assume everyone who works in the airline catering industry makes the food. If you work for an airline I guess I'd assume you drain excess grease from the baggage tug exhaust systems.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 46, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16568 times:

You forgot seasonal 2nd AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN-RDU AND A 2nd permanent RSU-STL... And FL is doing RDU-MCO/FLL/TPA replacing 2/1/1 respectively...


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16549 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 45):
not an official date even set for it.

And you know this how.... I can promise you there is a set date and we just don't know it.

Quoting enilria (Reply 45):
Have you seen the loads on ORF-ATL or SDF-ATL or all the other routes that expected code share. Go look

And those are with a very limited presence in ATL.

Quoting enilria (Reply 45):

I'm not even gonna get into the rest, the WN world is ending in your mind and it will turn out just like it did on 12/21/12.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently onlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3042 posts, RR: 28
Reply 48, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16522 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 44):
MDW-PUJ (starts April 14 on FL equipment, pending government approval)

The MDW-PUJ start date is May 19.  


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 49, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 16482 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 45):
That makes no sense. FL and WN had hardly any head to head overlap. WN overlapped nearly every F9 route at that point. I'm surprised you don't know the networks better than that.

Yeah I guess the build up of operations at BWI, MKE, and MDW really meant nothing. How foolish of me. I should have known that FL would have stopped expanding those focus operations to keep from stepping on WN's toes.

Quoting enilria (Reply 45):
And we are 14 days in and there is not an official date even set for it.

Really? Interesting.

Quoting enilria (Reply 45):
It's interesting that you assume everyone who works in the airline catering industry makes the food. If you work for an airline I guess I'd assume you drain excess grease from the baggage tug exhaust systems.

LOL. That's cute.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 47):
And you know this how.... I can promise you there is a set date and we just don't know it.

Everything is in motion already to get it kicked off, we just don't know the release date - publicly - yet.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 47):
I'm not even gonna get into the rest, the WN world is ending in your mind and it will turn out just like it did on 12/21/12.

Indeed. Another WN thread, same responses to be expected. Ahh well, what can you do but just laugh at them.


User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6533 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 16483 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 44):
ABQ-TUS

Now this is a surprise. WN has served this route for a very long time, and now there are no nonstop flights between ABQ and TUS, forcing pax to connect in PHX.

EDIT: However, according to this article, the average load factor from August 2011 to July 2012 was only 61.2%:
http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/...a-504e-11e2-92ba-0019bb2963f4.html

[Edited 2013-01-14 14:53:49]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 16374 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 49):
Everything is in motion already to get it kicked off, we just don't know the release date - publicly - yet.

  

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 49):
Indeed. Another WN thread, same responses to be expected. Ahh well, what can you do but just laugh at them.

  



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 52, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 16338 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 46):
You forgot seasonal 2nd AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN-RDU AND A 2nd permanent RSU-STL... And FL is doing RDU-MCO/FLL/TPA replacing 2/1/1 respectively...
Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 48):
The MDW-PUJ start date is May 19.

Corrected, thanks. I didn't include DEN-RDU/STL as those are frequency adjustments (sorry, this is complicated enough just doing routes).

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 50):
Now this is a surprise. WN has served this route for a very long time, and now there are no nonstop flights between ABQ and TUS, forcing pax to connect in PHX.

EDIT: However, according to this article, the average load factor from August 2011 to July 2012 was only 61.2%:
http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/....html

This is basically an exit of WN in the market as US is the only viable option for getting to TUS from ABQ without going way out of the way.

WN seems pretty consistent on hacking away at low load-factor routes the past several schedule changes. WN seems, at least from my observations, to be cutting long-time low performing routes that they've hung around on in the past for decades.

With this new outlook on profitability and a 15% return on investment (ROI), I'm really questioning the viability of CRP as a station. It consistently runs very low loads and is a short flight to HOU. Of course questions remain on whether WN would close a very long-time station and also how yields look out of CRP.

Kudos to Southwest for making profitability top priority regardless of other factors. Nearly every recent route cut seems to be based a combination of the following (and rightfully so):

Low load factors
Low O&D
Low yields
Short distance



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 53, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 16080 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 50):
Now this is a surprise. WN has served this route for a very long time, and now there are no nonstop flights between ABQ and TUS, forcing pax to connect in PHX.


I was also surprised/disappointed to learn that this route was ending because I always assumed there was enough local traffic between the two cities to keep it going, similar to TUS-SAN. I've got quite a few friends going to school with me here in Tucson that are from Albuquerque and I'm sure this will be an inconvenience for them.



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently onlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15928 times:

Quoting dolphinflyer (Reply 36):
While I agree that (for ALB's sake) I'd hate to see ALB-LAS n/s service go away, I would argue that ALB-DEN would offer more bang for the buck, i.e. higher yields, more connections to destinations throughout the west, more of a business rather than leisure market, etc. Having said that, I hope that WN adds ALB-DEN rather than replacing ALB-LAS with ALB-DEN.

Taking about 15 minutes or so..... and using (copying and pasting and formulating on spreadsheet) the T-100 stats and some other googling...... what seems to be the picture here is that is that ALB has only a WN nonstop to LAS that is year round, and no WN (or any other) nonstops to either PHX or DEN. Meanwhile, BUF has WN nonstops to both LAS and PHX year round, but no WN (or any other) nonstop to DEN.

From the T-100 stats using Q3-11 for the high season and Q1-12 for the low season, below is some copied and pasted data, as well as some formulating.......


City-pair, pax-per-day, distance, average Q3-11 low-end fare, with pax cost per mile (fare/distance)

BUF-LAS, 577, 1986, $201, $0.1012
BUF-PHX, 233, 1912, $230, $0.1202
BUF-DEN, 218, 1359, $217, $0.1600

ALB-LAS, 241, 2237, $239, $0.1030
ALB-PHX, 120, 2159, $228, $0.1057
ALB-DEN, 172, 1610, $259, $0.1611

Same as above but for Q1-12

BUF-LAS, 382, 1986, $221, $0.1116
BUF-PHX, 254, 1912, $226, $0.1183
BUF-DEN, 120, 1359, $207, $0.1523

ALB-LAS, 198, 2237, $216, $0.0969
ALB-PHX, 97, 2159, $236, $0.1094
ALB-DEN, 97, 1610, $249, $0.1548

It seems that you are spot on with the 'bang for the buck' observation. DEN low-end carrier fares here are an average of 22% to 40% higher with regard to distance, and in most instances, WN is not even the low-end carrier. So WN (or any carrier here) has a range where fares are higher to/from BUF/ALB - DEN than they are to/from BUF/ALB - PHX/LAS, and it seems that this range may be enough where a bit of downward fare adjustment in a BUF/ALB - DEN route could increase demand while still providing better yields then with PHX/LAS. And other than maybe ALB/PHX, all of the these BUF/ALB to/from DEN/PHX/LAS nonstops seem to be strong enough with O&D to warrant daily nonstops.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 44):
Seems reasonable - and as you said LAS/PHX may be cut from ALB/BUF if DEN was added.

As from above, just for my    I wouldn't think that anything would need to be cut if WN started either or both ALB/BUF and DEN.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 44):

Excellent list. Thanks for all of the time that you put into it and are sharing.....

Quoting iowaman (Reply 44):
Please let me know if this needs any corrections:

Just curious, but would FL starting (or soon to start) both CUN and SJD need to be included in your list?

 


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 55, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15807 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 47):
I can promise you there is a set date and we just don't know it.

How can you promise something you don't know?

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 47):
And those are with a very limited presence in ATL.

Because there was no code share on the original schedule. You just made my point.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 47):
the WN world is ending in your mind

No, FL is not a big enough part of WN to kill them. It's just not accomplishing what they said and what people hoped it would. They simply eliminated an LCC with lower costs and are moving the airplanes elsewhere.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 49):
Yeah I guess the build up of operations at BWI, MKE, and MDW really meant nothing.

The % overlap to WN was about 1% and the overlap to FL was under 4%. DOT didn't even question it.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 15710 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 45):
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 41):
Unfortunately yes. Clark Howard who was so excited about WN, will end up disappointed in what WN does to ATL in the end.

That freight train is already gaining a lot of speed.

WN pulling down ATL will open up gates for Spirit. If Spirit can make DFW work, they can do the same in ATL.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 57, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 15672 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 56):
WN pulling down ATL will open up gates for Spirit. If Spirit can make DFW work, they can do the same in ATL.

I kind of hope F9 could make that work, but NK is probably more likely given track record.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 58, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15601 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 55):
How can you promise something you don't know?

I'm not sure how your company handles it, but there are things employees are trained on/told but are not in the position to acknowledge due to confidentiality requirements. Whether or not you actually respect those is another story, but to simply say that a date doesn't exist is foolish and naive...almost bordering on trolling. The details will be released when they are ready for all of us to know.

Quoting enilria (Reply 55):
The % overlap to WN was about 1% and the overlap to FL was under 4%. DOT didn't even question it.

You missed my point, which doesn't shock me. Look at where FL was in their network. They had a good portion of everything east of the Mississippi saturated. Where were they going to grow? West. Into more traditional and strong WN markets. The MKE, MDW, and BWI operations were nice additions to the WN network by connecting more dots. However, going forward FL would have been forced to go into more and more WN markets.


User currently offlineJaxMan19 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 15552 times:

I always thought JAX-MDW was route that was always missing from WN routemap. Is there any reason why they havent started this? also the following could work:

JAX-STL
JAX-MSY
JAX-RDU

these are all routes that have been flown in the past.

on another note, would they convert CLT into all WN metal soon?


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 60, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 15529 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting point2point (Reply 54):

Just curious, but would FL starting (or soon to start) both CUN and SJD need to be included in your list?

Thanks, I updated it with DEN-SJD, I believe all the other Mexico routes have started.

Quoting point2point (Reply 54):
As from above, just for my I wouldn't think that anything would need to be cut if WN started either or both ALB/BUF and DEN.
Quoting point2point (Reply 54):
ALB-PHX, 97, 2159, $236, $0.1094
ALB-DEN, 97, 1610, $249, $0.1548
Quoting point2point (Reply 54):
It seems that you are spot on with the 'bang for the buck' observation. DEN low-end carrier fares here are an average of 22% to 40% higher with regard to distance, and in most instances, WN is not even the low-end carrier. So WN (or any carrier here) has a range where fares are higher to/from BUF/ALB - DEN than they are to/from BUF/ALB - PHX/LAS, and it seems that this range may be enough where a bit of downward fare adjustment in a BUF/ALB - DEN route could increase demand while still providing better yields then with PHX/LAS. And other than maybe ALB/PHX, all of the these BUF/ALB to/from DEN/PHX/LAS nonstops seem to be strong enough with O&D to warrant daily nonstops.

If WN started ALB-DEN I don't see PHX or LAS being as important in my opinion. 97 pax per day in O&D on a nearly cross-country flight isn't impressive to say the least. ALB-DEN would offer plenty of connecting options to LAS and PHX, and is a much shorter flight, along with higher yields. I suspect a lot of the connecting load would be taken off LAS and PHX if ALB-DEN was started (some pax would fly ALB-DEN-LAX for example compared to ALB-LAS-LAX or ALB-PHX-LAX). Thanks for sharing these numbers as they are very insightful.

Quoting JaxMan19 (Reply 59):
I always thought JAX-MDW was route that was always missing from WN routemap. Is there any reason why they havent started this? also the following could work:

JAX-STL
JAX-MSY
JAX-RDU

IIRC JAX-MDW has been brought up before. Seems reasonable to me they would consider connecting the two, similar to how TUL is getting connected to MDW finally.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 61, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15452 times:

Quoting JaxMan19 (Reply 59):

It is unfortunately AirTran ends CLT on april 13 and SWA begins 6 daily flights the next day


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 62, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15416 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 61):
It is unfortunately AirTran ends CLT on april 13 and SWA begins 6 daily flights the next day

Why is it unfortunate? For how many schedule releases where you on here upset that WN hadn't announced the CLT conversion yet. Now that they are, you are upset? /facepalm


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 63, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15380 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 62):

Well ive been a huge AirTran fan since 1998, I didnt think they would end everything thats why its unfortunate. All this means is higher fares.

facepalm


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15385 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 63):
Well ive been a huge AirTran fan since 1998, I didnt think they would end everything thats why its unfortunate. All this means is higher fares.

All they are ending from CLT is ATL. They are keeping BWI and MCO and adding MDW and HOU.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 65, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15348 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 63):
Well ive been a huge AirTran fan since 1998, I didnt think they would end everything thats why its unfortunate. All this means is higher fares.

Ummm. You don understand what a merger/acquisition is all about right? AirTran is a dead brand walking. To not think that is just being oblivious to reality and common business practice.


User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 66, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days ago) and read 15124 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 62):
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 61):
It is unfortunately AirTran ends CLT on april 13 and SWA begins 6 daily flights the next day

Why is it unfortunate? For how many schedule releases where you on here upset that WN hadn't announced the CLT conversion yet. Now that they are, you are upset? /facepalm

Im so glad im not the only one that noticed that....

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 64):
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 63):
Well ive been a huge AirTran fan since 1998, I didnt think they would end everything thats why its unfortunate. All this means is higher fares.

All they are ending from CLT is ATL. They are keeping BWI and MCO and adding MDW and HOU.

Adding on to that, They are going from 4 daily FL with minimal options to 6 Daily Southwest flights to more cities with more options. Over time, they may add LAS and DEN. Not too sure how unfortunate that is.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 67, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15096 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):


Funny you should ask/predict. At BWI which has been "Swalife Country," over 10 years the indoctrination/conversion begins in earnest.

1. February 4: 20 of us CSA officially are re-badged and WN employees.
2. A good portion of our rampers do the conversion dance February 18
3. Finally this March 18 the remaining CSA's approx 60 switch over.
4. The official goal is for BWI to be fully converted this March 18. We will all (CSA) be cross trained to work WN and our remaining flights.

It's the issue of the international certification that will keep the FL colors/name going for at least another year. Once WN achieves this the FL brand, logos, colors will be just blessed memories along with the likes of the Eastern Falcon, VJ "Critter"
(the inspiration for the "zippyjet," etc.

Originally the big conversion (BWI) was not to get underway till mid June. But this detailed process would be "chop suicide" for both of us due to the crushing attack of the "summer people." As long as Visa, AMEX, MC and for that matter China don't tighten the purse strings and demand immediate payback it will be oversold bliss and green for our company. At least with a March switchover at BWI we will have had some time under our belts to deal with the onslaught of the "Summer People.
Of course we are going to fly head on into the craziness that is Spring Break which each year gets longer and is like the Spring training/attack of the Summer people.

I'm not sure of our other medium to large stations my buddy in TPA says the big switch for them could take off in May.
We'll keep you posted and leave the light on for you!   



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14915 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 67):

Enough already with "Swalife." It's the internal company website and it makes no sense whatsoever to call the company Swalife.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 69, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14761 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 65):

I understand what a merger is. I've seen alot of them in my life


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14762 times:

If WN pulls down ATL enough, it will open up gates for a big NK expansion. If NK can make DFW a focus, they can do the same in ATL.

User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 71, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14735 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 70):
If WN pulls down ATL enough, it will open up gates for a big NK expansion. If NK can make DFW a focus, they can do the same in ATL.

Its not gonna happen so this won't be a possibility.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 69):
I understand what a merger is. I've seen alot of them in my life

CLT is nothing but benefiting.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 68):
At BWI which has been "Swalife Country,".

I had to read this sentence multiple times just to figure out what you were talking about. Can you just call it SWA, Southwest or WN.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 72, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14709 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 68):
Enough already with "Swalife." It's the internal company website and it makes no sense whatsoever to call the company Swalife.

Agreed. The brand is important to the company, hence why you don't see "Southwest" plastered on FL aircraft that haven't been stripped yet. Using different names, especially in public, can be confusing and should be coached.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 69):
I understand what a merger is. I've seen alot of them in my life

Alright, then why would you be upset about FL going away since that is what always happens? It makes no sense.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 70):
If WN pulls down ATL enough, it will open up gates for a big NK expansion. If NK can make DFW a focus, they can do the same in ATL.

With the type of operation they run, do they really need more than a gate or two? Not really. If they want to do something similar they can. However, this is a WN schedule prediction thread and any NK discussion should probably go elsewhere.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 73, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14317 times:

Now just 2 weeks away from release.


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 74, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14298 times:

might we seem some more international stuff out of AUS....


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14298 times:

There being really hush hush about this next update.
I hope with the code share we see a lot of new flying.
Hopefully they cut away the over lap markets redeploy some FL flying to fill in the gaps.
I do like the AUS-SJD market. Bring on more new international markets.
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14269 times:

Certain AUS-International routes would work.....maybe AUS-PTY/SAL


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13902 times:

The SWA route map is showing (as of right now) ATL to RSW and FLL. Since the new schedule comes out on Monday, I assume it is just out early but we will see.


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 78, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13857 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 76):
Certain AUS-International routes would work.....maybe AUS-PTY/SAL

Is that a joke? Because those will never work. Ever.



a.
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 79, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 13711 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 78):

How about WN ding FLL-PTY/SAL or DAL-PTY/SAL? If you do AUS it could be a stopping point on say BWI-AUS-SAL. Maybe in the near future (within 1 to 2 years). More possibilities open up as we take delivery of additional new 737-800's.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 72):
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 68):
Enough already with "Swalife." It's the internal company website and it makes no sense whatsoever to call the company Swalife.

   Geez please lighten up. OK, I'll retire it. However I still believe it rolls off the tongue and does sound cute.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 72):

Agreed. The brand is important to the company, hence why you don't see "Southwest" plastered on FL aircraft that haven't been stripped yet. Using different names, especially in public, can be confusing and should be coached.

Too labor intensive taking planes out of service. Just easier to stick with the across the board stripping, re-painting and cabin conversions.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 13651 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 79):
How about WN ding FLL-PTY/SAL or DAL-PTY/SAL?

There is no local market from DFW area to PTY and SAL. Only AA can make it work with their massive at DFW.

If WN flies to Central America it will be from HOU, never from DAL.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 81, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13646 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 80):
never from DAL.

Until the Wright Amendment is completely gone, WN can not fly international from DAL.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 82, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13629 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 81):
Until the Wright Amendment is completely gone, WN can not fly international from DAL.

DAL will still not be opened up to international non-stop flights once Wright is gone.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 83, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13604 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 82):
DAL will still not be opened up to international non-stop flights once Wright is gone.

Sorry, let me clarify, I meant if/when it is completely removed.

[Edited 2013-01-24 20:31:05]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 84, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13404 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 83):

The answer to your question is still.....No.


User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13397 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
GRR is tough because it is so close to MDW and WN has shown that they dont want to fly markets with lots of thru or connect traffic, (Ie they dropped IND from MDW) there has to be a local market.

As the 737 flies, it is a fairly short distance. However, for those not familiar with Great Lakes geography, to drive between Chicago and Grand Rapids, one has to go south along western shore of Lake Michigan, northeast through NW Indiana and then up the east side of Lake Michigan. On a nice weather day it can be done in 3 or so hours. But in winter, most of the route is through Lake Effect Snow territory and that 3 hour drive can easily become 4, 5, or more hours in duration. I think GRR can support 2-3 WN flights/day to MDW (even for those going to Chicago and no farther) and there's likely enough local traffic for other services.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 86, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13320 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 85):
As the 737 flies, it is a fairly short distance. However, for those not familiar with Great Lakes geography, to drive between Chicago and Grand Rapids,

Yes, youre missing a major development with WN in the past 6-12 months. They drop routes if there is no local and too much connecting traffic. Unless a GRR-MDW flight will be more than 50% local, they wont be flying it.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 87, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13265 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 86):
They drop routes if there is no local and too much connecting traffic. Unless a GRR-MDW flight will be more than 50% local, they wont be flying it.

Based on the geography, it's not obvious to me that it would not have a significant amount of local traffic. I don't know whether it would be fifty percent, but WN has never shared that (or any percent local) as a criterion for cutting routes.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 88, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13070 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 77):
The SWA route map is showing (as of right now) ATL to RSW and FLL. Since the new schedule comes out on Monday, I assume it is just out early but we will see.
http://www.southwest.com/assets/pdfs...les/20130217_20130122_2000/atl.pdf

That will answer all your questions.  


User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12992 times:

Code-share flights... Oh my!


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently onlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3826 posts, RR: 33
Reply 90, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12945 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 89):
Code-share flights... Oh my!

Yes, but it looks like they're taking baby steps right now. (Probably a good idea to make sure all goes smoothly)

I looked at the FLL & RSW schedules

http://www.southwest.com/assets/pdfs...les/20130217_20130122_2000/fll.pdf

http://www.southwest.com/assets/pdfs...les/20130217_20130122_2000/rsw.pdf

The only code-share flights I'm currently seeing are AirTran flights from FLL/RSW to ATL connecting to Southwest flights to SDF/ORF.

Maybe they'll add a couple more cities with the Feb. 4 extension.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 91, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12817 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 88):
That will answer all your questions.

                      
--
Also... heres an update to travelers with AirTran airport info...
http://www.southwest.com/html/air/airport-information.html
--
I would also point out, Southwest codeshare is on airtran.com as well. From the looks of it you can buy an all AirTran pair on Southwest.com but if you try to book an all SWA on airtran.com it will redirect you to southwest.com

[Edited 2013-01-26 09:09:17]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 92, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12745 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 90):
Yes, but it looks like they're taking baby steps right now. (Probably a good idea to make sure all goes smoothly)

Exactly.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 90):
The only code-share flights I'm currently seeing are AirTran flights from FLL/RSW to ATL connecting to Southwest flights to SDF/ORF.

That would be correct.

Also if you try to go out and book on Southwest.com now here are the details it discloses...

    This itinerary is operated by both Southwest and AirTran.

    What you need to know to travel:
  • * Don't forget to check in for your flight(s) 24 hours before your trip on southwest.com or your mobile device. This will secure your boarding position on the Southwest portion of your trip.
  • * AirTran has assigned seating. You will be assigned a seat and will have the opportunity to change the seat once you arrive at the airport.
  • * Southwest Airlines does not have assigned seats, so you can choose your seat when you board the plane. You will be assigned a boarding position based on your checkin time. The earlier you check in, within 24 hours of your flight, the earlier you get to board.
  • * If you are scheduled to change airlines when you change planes, don't worry - we'll transfer your checked bags for you. If you need to check a bag or print a boarding pass, be sure to go to the ticket counter or kiosk of the airline operating the first portion of your trip.


User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 12754 times:

I would like to see new routes from GSP.

GSP-STL might work, as well as GSP-FLL or GSP-TPA.

Although very unlikely, I would like to see GSP-DEN or GSP-LAS.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 94, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 12720 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 90):
The only code-share flights I'm currently seeing are AirTran flights from FLL/RSW to ATL connecting to Southwest flights to SDF/ORF.

The ATl-SDF/ORF flights are the ones that desperately need codesharing.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 87):
Based on the geography, it's not obvious to me that it would not have a significant amount of local traffic.

There's not. GRR-MKE had a bit with Frontier.. The drive from GRR-Chicago isnt that bad. It is worse than an equal distance drive Chicago-Peoria, sure but isnt a nightmare by any means. Lots of Chicagoans have cabins in MI in the summer so obviously there are lots of people who are willing to drive it.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 95, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 12714 times:

For all codeshare talk please go to the designated thread, Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran.


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 96, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12592 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 95):
There's not. GRR-MKE had a bit with Frontier..

My recollection is that C8 saw a decent amount of local traffic on GRR-MDW, but that recollection may be incorrect.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 95):
The drive from GRR-Chicago isnt that bad. It is worse than an equal distance drive Chicago-Peoria, sure but isnt a nightmare by any means.

The portions of the drive in Michigan and Illinois aren't bad. Unfortunately, there's a state in between.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 97, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12577 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 97):
My recollection is that C8 saw a decent amount of local traffic on GRR-MDW, but that recollection may be incorrect.

GRR was traditional one of the strongest C8 markets, even well before TZ showed up.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 98, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12492 times:

Anyone else notice that MSP-RSW is now on the route map for some reason?

EDIT: Disregard, somehow I missed WN adding Saturday only service MSP-RSW this spring.

[Edited 2013-01-26 14:07:38]


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 99, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12227 times:

Im very excited for WN in CLT and i cant wait to fly them.But i cant help bringing up a possibility of DEN from CLT. I understand its early but i say this because UA used to fly CLT-DEN 2 daily an dropped it. There has to be some room for one SWA flight to DEN.

just a thought


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 100, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12124 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 100):

Im very excited for WN in CLT and i cant wait to fly them.But i cant help bringing up a possibility of DEN from CLT. I understand its early but i say this because UA used to fly CLT-DEN 2 daily an dropped it. There has to be some room for one SWA flight to DEN.

DEN wouldn't shock me. It has service to a good number of WN markets except for a lot of the smaller cities. CLT definitely isn't a small city.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 101, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11989 times:

Given the comments about how "sub-optimal" the FL network is in the quarterly call, I'd expect big changes to ATL. What those are I have no idea. It seems to me that they will close more small, heavily connecting markets, yet they say that they are "committed" to ATL. I think we will see a continued creeping reduction in ATL. They better hope for F9/NK/B6/VX adding flights. In all honesty, I think we will see a net reduction but some new additions in ATL that are more than offset by route drops.

User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 102, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11989 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 102):
I think we will see a continued creeping reduction in ATL.

I don't know, maybe selective hearing, but that same quarterly call said that they expect ATL to keep the same number of flights within 10 flights. They were even hesitant to say a dozen.

Quoting enilria (Reply 102):
I'd expect big changes to ATL.

They said they would be shuffling cities, adding some to ATL and removing some from ATL. But at most a 10 flight reduction from ATL.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 103, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11915 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 103):

Re ATL: Breaking into ATL besides going International were the two big reasons WN bought us FL. To drastically reduce ATL service would be counter productive to their goals through absorbing FL. Just my 2 cents.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 2
Reply 104, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11905 times:

I know that there is an high number of you out there that want to see the MKE - DCA flights reduced to 1 or 2 flights to none at all, however, I sure hope not. I had to go to D.C. for a conference about two weeks ago and had a hard time finding an open flight for the dates & times going n/s I wanted. but I could not, so WN did not get my business I went out on AA via ORD. With WN being the only carrier currently on the route I have a feeling WN will not be moving any flights from MKE to MDW any time soon unless it was just a oddity that I could not find the flights on the day I wanted to go out and the day before as well. Maybe someone out there can tell me what the plan is.


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 105, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11905 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 102):
Given the comments about how "sub-optimal" the FL network is in the quarterly call, I'd expect big changes to ATL.

The FL network is sub-optimal because the network is being pulled apart. Of course it isn't as efficient as it once was. That isn't a shocker here.

Quoting enilria (Reply 102):
It seems to me that they will close more small, heavily connecting markets, yet they say that they are "committed" to ATL. I think we will see a continued creeping reduction in ATL.
Quoting enilria (Reply 102):
In all honesty, I think we will see a net reduction but some new additions in ATL that are more than offset by route drops.

If I were to take a guess I would say FNT is probably one of the cities to lose ATL service. ICT and BKG are already going away. I'm not sure on SAT making the transition. MEM, MCI, STL, DAY, CMH, PIT, LGA, TPA, and PBI probably all get converted. I'm not sure if they would keep MSP, DTW, and PNS. I know I'm leaving plenty out, but there is going to be a like of moving pieces when it comes to dehubbing ATL, but still keeping it a very healthy operation.


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 106, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11817 times:

So if WN is committed to ATL. How many flights are we talking about when it's all said and done.

160 flights. Something like a HOU operation


User currently offlineWWTRAVELER99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11791 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 107):
So if WN is committed to ATL. How many flights are we talking about when it's all said and done.

160 flights. Something like a HOU operation

I see ATL with 175-185 flights a day. The HOU operation will see about 190-200 a day by 2015.



As far as what will be announced on Feb 4th, I dont see much. Its will only extend the schedule out about 6 weeks. In the aqnnouncement will be MEM, PNS, RIC and GRR. I think in addition the will be a handfull of adds and minuses. I don;t expect much more. Not that this is nothing but simply its things that are already expected. FL stuff will be announced as it happens. I do see additional international destinations throughout 2013. My prediction is we see about 10 new flights (not counting what is already known) and at least one brand new destination.

WW


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 108, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11738 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 103):
I don't know, maybe selective hearing, but that same quarterly call said that they expect ATL to keep the same number of flights within 10 flights. They were even hesitant to say a dozen.
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 103):
But at most a 10 flight reduction from ATL.

I don't believe it. They said that before and keep reducing it. From what I know and some conjecture, a big pull down of ATL will fund the DAL 2014 build-up. So, they may not pull in the short-term, but it is coming.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 104):
To drastically reduce ATL service would be counter productive to their goals through absorbing FL. Just my 2 cents.

Things have changed. It has gone much more poorly than expected. The primary goal of the merger as of now was that they eliminated a competitor.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 106):
If I were to take a guess I would say FNT is probably one of the cities to lose ATL service.

Good guess...that was already announced! LOL


User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11701 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
I don't believe it. They said that before

Just like you knew, from your sources, that there was no way the code-share was going to launch in the first quarter of '13, if ever?

So basically, you only take from the call what supports your ideas and if it is counter to what you believe, they aren't being honest...



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 110, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11672 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
From what I know

So nothing... You have been wrong too many times to have respect on WN posts anymore. I'm gonna quote usflyguy because he is exactly right, "So basically, you only take from the call what supports your ideas and if it is counter to what you believe, they aren't being honest..."

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 110):
So basically, you only take from the call what supports your ideas and if it is counter to what you believe, they aren't being honest...

   Exactly.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 106):
but there is going to be a like of moving pieces when it comes to dehubbing ATL

Exactly! Some new cities connected to ATL and some more removed but staying within 10 flights of what they have.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 112):
There's not going to be a big DAL build-up. WN doesn't have the gate space to do that

 checkmark  Exactly.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 112):
I'm not sure where you are getting that.

Oh, he just making it up again.

[Edited 2013-01-28 08:03:39]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 111, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11679 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
They said that before and keep reducing it.

Except that the combined WN+FL has barely shrunk from where FL was two years ago.

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
From what I know and some conjecture, a big pull down of ATL will fund the DAL 2014 build-up.

There's not going to be a big DAL build-up. WN doesn't have the gate space to do that, so I'm not sure where you are getting that. WN will certainly add a few flights at DAL, but no big build up.

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
It has gone much more poorly than expected.

Only in that the codeshare hasn't gone into place, but now that the codeshare is happening, we'll see how it really goes.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 112, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11678 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
From what I know and some conjecture, a big pull down of ATL will fund the DAL 2014 build-up. So, they may not pull in the short-term, but it is coming.

I don't see that much room for a huge buildup at DAL. There will be flights added, but I don't think we are talking about a net gain of 100 flights or anything close to that.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 113, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11610 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
I don't believe it. They said that before and keep reducing it. From what I know and some conjecture, a big pull down of ATL will fund the DAL 2014 build-up. So, they may not pull in the short-term, but it is coming.
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 112):
Except that the combined WN+FL has barely shrunk from where FL was two years ago.

What PNS said. From what I've heard, the flight totals are still on target for what was initially expected. So perhaps your sources weren't very good to begin with?

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
Good guess...that was already announced! LOL

Yeah it was late. LOL

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 112):
There's not going to be a big DAL build-up. WN doesn't have the gate space to do that, so I'm not sure where you are getting that. WN will certainly add a few flights at DAL, but no big build up.

Completely agree. I think the number of nonstop destinations explodes, but at the expense of downsizing existing routes. Does ABQ, for example, need 7 nonstops a day? Probably not. There are ways to grow the DAL network without having a net increase of flights. Though I do feel the flight totals will bump up a bit as they push additional efficiency out of the gate space available.


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11598 times:

My guess would be 130-140.

BWI, MDW and MCO having the most, and keeping 10 daily departures each.
HOU and FLL having 8 daily departures.
BNA linked with 6 daily departures.
DAL, DCA and DEN having about 5 daily departures each.
JAX, LAS, LAX, MCI, MKE, MSY, RSW, SAT and STL having about 4 daily departures each
PHX with 3 or 4
BOS downsized to 2 or 3x, with JetBlue picking up an equivalent of 3x on BOS-ATL, the two competing against DL.
SFO with 2, OAK with 1
AUS, SAN, ISP with 1 or 2 each
+ some extra padded for other domestic (maybe PIT, PHL, PBI, RIC, RDU and SDF), thus about 140.

It's unclear if WN needs ATL for international connections when it has HOU/SAT, TPA/MCO and BWI, and if it wants to compete directly against DL again.

For any route where WN isn't strong with business pax on the other side of the route (e.g. LGA, PHL, CLE, MSP, DTW, BOS), or it doesn't have a large presence, I'm curious how WN will make it happen competing comfortably against DL to ATL, and or other carriers.

I know I'm going to be slammed on this prediction but if the LGA slots used for MKE-LGA, CAK-LGA, ATL-LGA don't transition out well, I suspect the return of 3 or 4x daily of BWI-LGA, as the latter will help with International, Carribean, Southeast US and Florida connection, other areas of east (e.g. FNT and GRR), sales from NY. A large market to not be able to sell the flights into/out of those markets or have longer awkward connections.

[Edited 2013-01-28 09:35:52]

User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 115, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11479 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 115):

I no I'm going to get blown up for saying this but I really think it would nice to have CLT-ATL. I now it won't happen but it would be cool

What about OKC, TUL, just a thought


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 116, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11454 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 115):
My guess would be 130-140.

They just said it would stay within 10 flights of what it is now so because of that I have to disagree.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 115):
ATL-LGA

They will be decreasing ATL-LGA from 8 to 6 daily departures soon and I expect that to stay there, its one of those routes they have to serve.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 115):
I suspect the return of 3 or 4x daily of BWI-LGA

All I am thinking is, it got cut along with EWR-BWI and there has to be a strong reason to cut both so I doubt either will return.

[Edited 2013-01-28 12:06:23]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 117, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11329 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 116):
I no I'm going to get blown up for saying this but I really think it would nice to have CLT-ATL. I now it won't happen but it would be cool

What about OKC, TUL, just a thought

Nah, won't knock you for the CLT-ATL thought. Now about using the proper "know" versus "no", we might have something.   hehe

OKC maybe. TUL probably not.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 118, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 11027 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 111):
There's not going to be a big DAL build-up. WN doesn't have the gate space to do that, so I'm not sure where you are getting that. WN will certainly add a few flights at DAL, but no big build up


This may very well change. At DAL there is the beginning of an expansion project adding more gates and a state of the art terminal for WN. Currently WN gates at DAL and I guess other airlines date at least back to the early middle 60's. The WN terminal of today reminds me a bit of Concourse H and now G at MIA (H concourse prior to redo in the 90's at MIA), low ceilings, tight passenger holding area/lounges and yes even "mini-me" jet-ways! By this time in five years or less these will be things of the past. I sort of like the old time old school vibe at our WN gates at DAL mini me jet-ways and all.
Sketches and pictures are renderings of wider open modern style facilities. So I can't imagine WN not growing once this project is complete. Otherwise why would such an endeavor be going down at DAL?



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 119, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11018 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 118):
At DAL there is the beginning of an expansion project

Beginning in October of 2014, DAL will be limited to 20 gates max, Southwest has full control over 16 of those. This is all part of the wright amendment compromise.

http://www.lovefieldmodernizationprogram.com



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 120, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10982 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 114):

I doubt there will be 6 daily ATL-BNA flights in fact I doubt there will be any.
OAK and ISP won't have ATL service.

I think overall you have too many daily departures. I could see DTW and MSP maybe having 2-3 flights. PDX in summer.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 121, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10866 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 119):

I'm totally confused. Then why the expansion and new construction? Talk about confusing law. Always have been stumped by the Wright ammendmant. If you tested me on it right now I'd be sorry to say I'd be part of "F Troop."



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 122, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10878 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 112):
but I don't think we are talking about a net gain of 100 flights or anything close to that.


I doubt it will even be a net gain of 50 flights with the limited amount of gates as others have said. However, I expect to see slight to moderate frequency reductions to current DAL stations WN serves, particularly the smaller ones like AMA, LBB, and MAF. It makes more sense to allocate the capital (gate space) in DAL to flights like DAL-LAX/MDW/BWI/LAS/PHX/ etc., assuming they get maxed out in DAL eventually. A lot of these DAL-AMA/LBB/MAF-XXX flights are carrying a noticeable amount of thru traffic that is better served non-stop (and probably more profitably as well).

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 114):
My guess would be 130-140.

BWI, MDW and MCO having the most, and keeping 10 daily departures each.
HOU and FLL having 8 daily departures.
BNA linked with 6 daily departures.
DAL, DCA and DEN having about 5 daily departures each.
JAX, LAS, LAX, MCI, MKE, MSY, RSW, SAT and STL having about 4 daily departures each
PHX with 3 or 4
BOS downsized to 2 or 3x, with JetBlue picking up an equivalent of 3x on BOS-ATL, the two competing against DL.
SFO with 2, OAK with 1
AUS, SAN, ISP with 1 or 2 each
+ some extra padded for other domestic (maybe PIT, PHL, PBI, RIC, RDU and SDF), thus about 140.


I think you hit the cities pretty well in my opinion. Two I would question would be ISP (WN even dropped MDW-ISP, so I wouldn't count on ATL-ISP) and DCA having that many frequencies from ATL.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 120):
I doubt there will be 6 daily ATL-BNA flights in fact I doubt there will be any.
OAK and ISP won't have ATL service.


BNA and OAK are both large WN stations with a large frequent flier following. ATL-BNA is ripe for lower fares and provides some connectivity as well. OAK also provides nice connectivity to places like SEA and PDX if WN choose not to serve those non-stop out of ATL.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 100):
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 100):

Im very excited for WN in CLT and i cant wait to fly them.But i cant help bringing up a possibility of DEN from CLT. I understand its early but i say this because UA used to fly CLT-DEN 2 daily an dropped it. There has to be some room for one SWA flight to DEN.

DEN wouldn't shock me. It has service to a good number of WN markets except for a lot of the smaller cities. CLT definitely isn't a small city.


CLT-DEN seems very reasonable IMO. I'm surprised UA doesn't fly this. UA has also neglected RDU-DEN over the years yet WN has done well on it (went from 1x to 2x daily and I believe at least one of the flights are on an -800).



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 123, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10792 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 121):
I'm totally confused. Then why the expansion and new construction? Talk about confusing law. Always have been stumped by the Wright ammendmant. If you tested me on it right now I'd be sorry to say I'd be part of "F Troop."

The terminal needs to be modernized. Like you pointed out it is old, but there are still going to be restrictions on how large it can get. There will be growth in the number of nonstop destinations, just not growth in the total number of flights.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 124, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10714 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 122):
I doubt it will even be a net gain of 50 flights with the limited amount of gates as others have said.

I agree with that. That said, there is going to be an increased need for aircraft beyond what would be expected with the modest gain in flights, as the average stage length is sure to go up quite a bit.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 125, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10535 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 122):

I don't want to push it but I would love to see a CLT-LAS flight on WN. US is 651 RT!!!

WN is a savior for CLT passengers.

I could see this route be announced this year and starting next year (CLT-DEN)


User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10195 times:

Is the FL schedule usually loaded on Saturday or Sunday before the WN schedule? I think this one will give quite a bit of insight in to the upcoming changes that are rumored to be pretty big.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10196 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 126):
Is the FL schedule usually loaded on Saturday or Sunday before the WN schedule? I think this one will give quite a bit of insight in to the upcoming changes that are rumored to be pretty big.

I can never see the changes in the FL schedule prior the WN announcement. Do you just go through the booking engine for particular city pairs? I too think we're going to see a big change in FL flying as 717s start to leave the fleet--they start to leave in August, yes?


User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10150 times:

Look in the booking engine... at the city pairs that are FL only to see if they have reduced frequencies or no service at all.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2911 posts, RR: 30
Reply 129, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10030 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 126):
Is the FL schedule usually loaded on Saturday or Sunday before the WN schedule? I think this one will give quite a bit of insight in to the upcoming changes that are rumored to be pretty big.

The norm has been that FL will roll out their new scheudle on Friday night, and the new WN schedule comes out on Monday morning. Two things to know about this:

(a) At least in one particular schedule roll out several month also, what AIrTran loaded on Friday night was adjusted on Monday anyway. All weekend it looked like AAA-BBB was continuing to operate on AirTran in the new period. Then Monday morning, the new Southwest schedule came out also flying AAA-BBB, and for a few hours it looked like both airlines were flying the market. Then a few hours later that Monday morning, AirTran's schedule was adjusted and AAA-BBB disappeared. I have not noticed this happening *every* time, but be aware that it has. And as such, take the AirTran load with a grain of salt untli we see Southwest too.

(b) This is the first rollout since (limited) code sharing was announced. So who knows how that will affect things. As an example if Southwest is starting ATL-OkC, maybe we'll see it for sale on AirTran in the Friday night load. Or maybe not until Monday. We don't even know if this weekend's load will have *any* additional code sharing as part of it. But just keep in mind that the "normal" pattern may not hold true anymore.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6763 posts, RR: 32
Reply 130, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9959 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 121):
I'm totally confused. Then why the expansion and new construction? Talk about confusing law. Always have been stumped by the Wright ammendmant.

Airport costs at DAL have historically been quite a bit lower than airport costs at DFW because the terminals were largely built and paid-for decades ago. The boosters of DFW (AMR, DFW Airport Board, City of Ft. Worth) wanted to level the playing field, so they required, as part of the Five Party Agreement ending the Wright Amendment, the development of new terminal facilities at DAL costing at least $150 million.

There's nothing all that confusing about the Wright Amendment -- it was written to protect DFW Airport and its primary tenant, AA. The airport and AMR headquarters were in Jim Wright's district.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 125):
WN is a savior for CLT passengers.

CLT passengers will have to use WN for it to be a savior for them. If they just keep on booking US when US matches the fare, they'll get what they deserve when WN pulls the service down the road.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 114):
BOS downsized to 2 or 3x, with JetBlue picking up an equivalent of 3x on BOS-ATL, the two competing against DL.

Why exactly would WN reduce BOS-ATL to accommodate entry by B6?


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9957 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 130):

Why exactly would WN reduce BOS-ATL to accommodate entry by B6?

If B6 adds service on it which is likely, WN will reduce it's service over time.

I'd say given that WN doesn't do that elsewhere (flying 5x daily on that length unless it's big carrier on both ends and has no competition), it doesn't seem likely for WN sticking to 5x daily on the 900+ mile route, which overflies BWI, and it'd be DL vs. B6 vs. WN.

[Edited 2013-02-01 14:09:15]

User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9833 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 131):
If B6 adds service on it which is likely, WN will reduce it's service over time.

I'd say given that WN doesn't do that elsewhere (flying 5x daily on that length unless it's big carrier on both ends and has no competition), it doesn't seem likely for WN sticking to 5x daily on the 900+ mile route, which overflies BWI, and it'd be DL vs. B6 vs. WN.

Then why did WN start BOS service several years ago after B6 was already established there if they don't want to compete with them?



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineAirDance From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 133, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9730 times:

GRR has alerted media to a 'major air service announcement' next week on Monday, Feb. 4th. This could possibly be a Southwest Airlines announcement coinciding with their schedule extension.
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-m...ord_airport_alerts_media_to_m.html


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 134, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9713 times:

Quoting AirDance (Reply 133):

GRR has alerted media to a 'major air service announcement' next week on Monday, Feb. 4th. This could possibly be a Southwest Airlines announcement coinciding with their schedule extension.

Let the guessing begin! I think BWI, MCO & DEN.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 135, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9672 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 134):

Let me guess!

BWI,MDW,DEN,PHX


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 136, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9666 times:

Just a quick question. If WN was going to add a flight out west from CLT which would make the most sense

CLT-LAS/PHX/DEN


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 137, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9598 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting AirDance (Reply 133):
GRR has alerted media to a 'major air service announcement' next week on Monday, Feb. 4th. This could possibly be a Southwest Airlines announcement coinciding with their schedule extension.

Good find. I'd say it's about a 98% chance it will be WN.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 134):
Let the guessing begin! I think BWI, MCO & DEN.
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 135):
Let me guess!

BWI,MDW,DEN,PHX

BWI and MCO will be a given in my opinion. I will be very surprised if TPA is also not kept. DEN, MDW, or RSW would be a nice bonus. I expect a buildout similar to FNT (3x BWI, 1x MCO, 1x TPA).

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 136):
Just a quick question. If WN was going to add a flight out west from CLT which would make the most sense

CLT-LAS/PHX/DEN

DEN in my opinion would be the most likely, but I would think LAS or PHX would also be viable as they have a very large Southwest following. CLT-PHX/LAS are pretty long which ties up aircraft which is why I would pick DEN over the others as a higher possibility. It also seems WN has been launching medium-haul routes over short-haul and domestic long haul.